housetraining!
Well, now Dancer is 19 weeks old. She has progressed from great with going outside to pee etc, to not so great, and now for the last few days it's like she isn't even housetrained at all, except that she still holds it all night and never, ever pees in the bedroom. I have no idea what's going on! She is peeing in the house all the time, and even in the mornings I really have to coax her to pee and it takes forever. I think the only reason she goes pee outside in the morning is because she's held it all night and can't hold it anymore, though if she could she'd hold it just long enough to come back inside and pee on the kitchen floor. When I have to leave her in her crate for a few hours when both my husband and I are at work and the kids are at school she is now peeing in her crate as well. Just the last few days though. I already took her to the vet and he checked her out and checked her urine and there is no infection or anything. Anyone have any ideas??? I don't know why, she just really seems to want to pee in the house, and yet when she does she looks guilty as if she knows she's done something wrong. Maybe tips on re-training an older pup? I think Í'm going to have to start from scratch. But now that she is peeing in her crate I don't think I'm going to have much luck. And she's so smelly when I come home from work after she's been laying in the peed on blanket! Baths every day are going to dry out her skin.... |
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| Oh boy. I'm sure that you are very frustrated by now. Remember that the rule of thumb is that a pup can hold it 1 hours for every month of age. You are looking at a maximum of 5 hours.
Baily is not quite 5 months and has begun to backslide a bit. She was doing real well and now all of a sudden, accidents (and I'm sure a few "on purposes" too!) have been occuring. Last night was particularly naughty (I wonder if it's the full moon). My trainer at 'puppy kindergarden' predicted the lapse so I guess it is normal. It is recommended that you just clean it up when you haven't seen it done in front of you and not say anything about it but make a big deal out of it when they go outside. She also recommends that if possible not allowing your pup to see you do the cleanup. If the vet does not see a problem I guess the only thing we can do it stay the course. I am hoping that it is a 'phase' sort of like a rebellious pre-teen at this point, that will not last too much longer for both of us. Hang in there. They are complex little creatures in many ways Lorraine |
| Hi,
Just another little tidbit of information regarding dog behavior. Ever wonder why dogs stop at every lamp post or bush and urinate? That's cause dog urine gives off details about a particular dog to other dogs in the neighborhood. Kinda like this...Hi I'm a male un-neutered old guy , or I'm a young female spayed female, I'm a young female puppy, etc.... It's true!! Your dog will then leave his/her mark for others to smell and they often urinate where others have gone. A short walk on a leash to the end of the block should empty her bladder...makes training a lot easier. Just a suggestion anyhow. If you don't have time, then walk around your yard...don't just stand there and wait for her to go...let her mark her territory...then lots of praise...Good Puppy!!! Good Luck! |
| UGH! Getting worse still... this morning for the first time she wouldn't go pee outside. My husband took her out and was out with her for almost an hour, and still she wouldn't pee. We tried letting her come in and drink some water and eat while still on leash and then back outside, to no avail, she held it for what seemed like forever, until finally we came in and she peed on the floor. I had to go to work and it was freezing out there otherwise I would have stayed out all day with her. Yesterday, same situation, she was outside with me for almost 2 hours, wandering around the backyard with me sitting on the porch so that I would be able to witness and praise her for peeing outside, I took for for a long walk around the neighborhood, i thought maybe if she smelled other spots that dogs have marked she might want to go, but no, she was actually kind of anxious on our walk, pulling and on guard to every noise, person and animal she saw. Not barking or growling, just stubbornly curious, and very aware if anyone seemed to come too close to me. She had no interest in sniffing at other places that dogs might have peed, and was afraid of the fire hydrant. Still we walked, I wanted her to be clamer and wound down before we got home, hoping she would pee in the familiarity of her own yard, but nope. So I asjed my daughter to bring out more water for Dancer to drink on the porch, hoping eventually she'd just be too full to hold it any longer. Still, she waited until she came into the house, and waited till no one was looking and peed on the kitchen floor.
So, today, I gave in and bought those training pads. A package of 16 of them was 10 dollars... I put one on the floor in the kitchen, figuring i'm going to have to start from scratch all over again. I even put it on the spot she had peed on earlier, though she doesn''t tend to search out the same spot twice. What does she do? She got her stuffed bear, and layed down on the pad with the bear. Cute maybe, but *sigh* not what i was hoping for! If she comes to view these pads as 'bed' she will not pee on them, anything but. So, because I don't want to say no and scare her away from the pads I'm jsut going to distract her with toys for now, and if I see her in the act I'm going to pick her up, put her on the pad and say good girl. Then gradually move the pad outside, and hopefully we'll get this down pat! Does anyone else have any more tips??? Please? I know she's still young, but after such a good start on housetraining I hate to see her regress so much, now that she is almost 20 weeks old. I know she can hold it, maybe even longer than most pups, because she has been able to hold it all night since she was 8 weeks old. And for a while there, she would go in the am twice before i went to work, and then hold it till I came home at lunch to let her out and then she'd usually hold it till the kids came home and sometimes make it outside to pee or sometimes get too excited and pee on the way out. But now she NEVER pees outisde. Or poops. I love this baby girl of mine so much, I would never give up on her, but I think the rest of my family has kind of had it with puddles..... |
| Hi Willowsprite,
How did Dancer do the rest of the weekend? My 15 week old OES - Cooper is still having troubles as well - although this weekend he didn't have any accidents at all!!!! I hope he continues. I can understand how frustrating it is but hang in there - I've heard they will - at some point - catch on! Good luck !! |
| Paulette> not very well unfortunately....
The housetraining pads are useless so far.... she likes to lay on them, not pee on them. For some reason she completely refuses to go pee outside AT ALL now. We'll keep working on it. |
| Willowsprite,
I don't have any useful recommendations, I just want you to know that we have all gone through times in puppy training when we think we will never get through to our dogs. Have patience and know that we are all rooting for you and Dancer--she will learn where you want her to pee. If you can get her to pee outside even once, you can build on that with tons of praise and treats. Good luck and hang in there! |
| Sorry you are having such a tough time. Baily is the same age and has backslipped as well (although not as bad). The trainer at puppy kindergarten indicated that this happens and everytime she messes up we are to confine her to her crate and, of course, on the occasions when she is good, praise her. She also recommneded going back to step one with her. No treats or rewards without doing SOMETHING right.
Has the weather been changing rapidly were you are? The trainer indicated that the dry Santa Ana winds we have been having here makes them a bit crazy. Anything frighten her in the yard were she goes? Just some thoughts. Good luck. Lorraine |
| Thanks for the support *sigh* hopefully this will pass quickly....
As to the weather comment, how strange you should mention that..... as of this moment, we are sitting at almost 30 degrees celcius, when only yesterday it was below freezing. Such a drastic change, our skies are looking a little green, and I heard on the news there was large hail about 15 minutes from where I live. Dancer can sense a storm coming I think, she is edgy and occasionally barking or growling at the doors and windows for no reason. I just got home from work, so I don't know if she has been in this strange mood all day or not. My husband was home with her untill 2 pm so when he calls I'm going to ask him if she did any better with him on the potty training or not. Although if the power goes out I won't be able to come back till tomorrow or much later anyway! I love storms, I like to sit on my porch and watch the lightning, and you can feel the thunder better out there. During a storm the air smells so energetic... crazy I know.... |
| Still no luck, getting worse every day, she pees and poops inside, pees in her crate when we're at work and lays in it and absolutely refuses to pee outside. I could stay out there with her all day and she would hold it until she comes back in. She could care less about food treats for training. I don't know why she won't go outside.... she seems to have just decided that in the house is where she should go, even though she knows it's bad.
I'm at a loss... I've checked so many books, websites, talked to trainers... and all they say is to start from square one with crate training, but that doesn't work because she pees in it. And it's not a large crate. Any tips at all??? |
| Does anyone know what the theory is behind not allowing a pup to see you clean up it's messes?
Just curious? |
I wish I could offer some advice, but my oes is about 1 1/2 years old and she does the same thing. She prefers to do her duties in the house. She has peed on my bed, our kids beds, just about everywhere you can think of (except outside). I don't know what to do with her and the idea of her peeing in the house for the next 10-12 years is frightening. I love her very much, but I have lost patience. I have had many dogs and this is the first to not be potty trained after several months. I have also tried various types of training, but to no avail. My house smells like dog pee! I don't know what to do and when I think of giving her up, it kills me, but everything smells! I think it may be the breed, because it seems quite a few people who have oes' have the same problem. I'm with you though, maybe we should form a support group?  Lord knows I need it on some days  |
| Please don't give up on your dog. Please consider bringing treats (different that you usually giver her) outside with you and once she does her business, give her a treat and constant praise. OES's thrive on praise and do not do well with any type of negative reinforcement. I am not sure where you got your info about OES's not being able to be housebroken. I'm on #2 (a 5 month pup) and he's doing really well too. I know it's frustrating. My cat used to spray as a territorial thing and I know the odor can be horrific. I wish you luck. |
| Firstly, don't give up!
I am still having problems with Dancer, and she is almost 6 months old now. She is doing better, but only because she is older and doesn't need to pee as often. She holds it all night, she always has, she absolutely will not pee in the bedroom. I take her out first thing in the morning, and she will pee, and I give her tons of praise and one or two of her favorite treats, marrowbones, and keep praising and petting and playing with her as long as I can, but within a half hour or so I have to get the kids off to school and my husband and I have to get ready for work. Usually just as we are getting ready to leave, before I tell her to go to her crate, she pees on the floor, even though I take her out 2 or 3 times in the first hour or so of the morning. Then, while we are at work she pees in her crate, every day, she'll even do it just as she goes in her crate when she knows we are leaving. I clean it, put her back in, and go to work, and when I come home she has peed in it at least once. I take her out immediately, and she won't pee. It does not matter how long I stay out with her, she will hold it till I come back in, and I have stayed out with her past midnight, and as soon as we come in she pees on the floor. She has only pooped outside 2 times since I brought her home at 8 weeks of age. Same situation, it doesn't matter that I know she poops at exactly 8am and 4 pm every single day, if I take her out in time for those "events" she will hold it, and end up causing a problem for herself, she holds it to the point where she is uncomfortable. While she will pee in her crate, she has never pooped in it... so I know she has some degree of wanting to keep clean. She is actually a very clean pup, for a sheepie, so I can't understand why the housetraining has become such a problem. Mostly I would say it is my own fault, and my family's fault. At some point in the beginning we didn't pay enough attention to the timing, didn't give her enough opportunities for praise, instead she developed a preference for linoleum floors to pee on. She literally thinks that is where she should go. She only manages to go outside in the morning because she won't go in the bedroom and has held it all night, for so long she simply cannot hold it in the morning and goes outside. But she doesn't seem happy about it, regardless of praise and attention and treats. I think to her, it just doesn't feel right. I do not however think it is a problem with sheepdogs. My first oes was housetrained in less than a week, only ever had one accident. Friends of mine have had 2 sheepdogs, one almost 20 years ago, who died at 13 or 14 I think, and one who is now almost 6. Both of their sheepdogs were housetrained within a week, and I think the reason is because they were home with them, and the one they have now goes to work with them. She is always with them, 24 hours a day. My first oes I also had the luxury of staying home with, for at least a couple of months, so training was easy. My pup Dancer is not from a "kennel" like situation, she was raised in the home of the breeder, with her dogs and kids, and was allowed to go out to pee as soon as she could walk, so learned early to keep clean. I kind of ruined that because I work full time. I'll never give up on Dancer though, I love her like one of my kids, and wouldn't (haven't) given up on my kids with they have behavior issues either. I know not everyone CAN stay home from work for a month or two, but it really does make things easier for everyone, especially the dog. I am taking the summer off, to re train Dancer, to train my new oes pup properly that is due to be born in about a week, and to be home with my kids, and to show Dancer, hopefully to a championship that I believe she deserves if she can just stop kissing everyone she meets! 
If it is at all possible for someone to stay home with your oes, regardless if it is a new pup, and older dog, a rescue, whatever, I really think it's the best chance you can give you and your family for a happy, healthy, well trained dog. You may think it is too much of a loss financially, but our family believes it is worth it, because we plan on Dancer and Sky being with us for many many years to come, and we want them to be happy ones for everyone. A couple of months lost wages is what some people pay for an engagement ring, it is the least I can do for a lifetime companion. Ok, I've been really long winded here... sorry.... 
Anyway, there are lots of great threads with tips on housetraining, pups or older dogs, it doesn't matter, but not every method will work for every dog, crate training will not work for Dancer, but I think being attached to me via lead will work for her. Housetraining pads, or paper training, work for some, or spending lots of time outside works for some because there are lots more opportunities for praise and to get the idea sunk in... keep trying.  |
| I agree with you completly, Willowsprite about staying home (if possible) to train your puppy. My husband and I are both teachers and have summers off. We are very lucky. I always work summers, just because I don't know what else to do with myself. But this summer (actually on June 29) our baby girl (Mopsey) will be home. And I decided to to take a summer off to train her and get to know her. I am worried that once the summer is over, she will get upset about us both going to work. Any suggestions on that? Thanks! |
| Well, with Mickey, we did have a little separation anxiety issues when I went back to work, I think it's just important that you do take some time to go off by yourselves for the afternoon and leave her in a crate or whatever you're using so that it's not a new and frightening thing when the time comes. |
| Thank you all for your encouragement. I have actually just quit my job, this is my first week off, so I will be home. I wish we lived in an area where I could install a doggy door, to see if that would work, but I'm a little leary because it would be big enough for a person to go through, and we've had a problem with peoples pets being stolen and worse, I don't like her out unsupervised, so we are looking to move to the country before winter hits. I really think the doggy door would be the answer for her. I'm venting when I say I think of giving her away, but I never would, I couldn't. But I do get frustrated, and I look at her as she stands defiantly by her puddle of pee and think "If you weren't so darn cute!" But she is family. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong, thats the worst part, but it really helps to talk to people on this forum. I'm glad I found this site. |
| Hi Shulgirl,
When you become frustrated and everything you've tried doesn't seem to be working...suddenly it stops! Okay It may be wishful thinking on my part but it did happen with Merlin - so there's hope! Merlin was easily trained and I felt I was very fortunate then suddenly he went through a time frame where he started to go in the house weeks after he had been trained. Then miraculously it stopped! As for the doggie door issue. Readers Digest once had a funny comment about this. They said if you were concerned that your doggie door were big enough to have a man crawl through ...how stupid would that man be knowing there was some huge dog on the other side of that door? Made me chuckle anyhow. Good luck and hopefully some success soon. Marianne |
| My puppy did the same thing; started peeing in the house so I put up a 75 foot runner line so he can play out side while I am not watching him and when I am at work weather permiting (he actualy goes to work with me most of the time).
I only use it because if you give them the opertunity to make a mistake they will and if they are out side all day they learn to pee pee outside. He has not gone in the house in at least a month. I even will let him in when I am busy and can't watch him now and he wont go inside. I don't know if this will help but it really has helped me. Also just wanted to say I have enrolled him in obediance class and the instructor told me that dogs who pee in the bed may be saying I am the boss (My dog did this before I got the runner line and started the class). Good luck and I hope you are able to find a solution. Obediance work has also helped. |
| Just wanted to add that I also use a crate when he is in the house and I can't be watching him. I just recently started letting him sleep out of the crate, and so far so good. |
| Willowsprite--hopefully you won`t have the problems I`ve had. Zoe is 4 YEARS old now, and she still goes in the house. We have had to replace linoleum, and carpet. We have tried everything with her. She`ll go outside, and we praise her, and give her treats, but she also will sneak and go on the carpet or on the linoleum in front of the front door. The linoleum is at night, and the livingroom carpet is whenever she`s left alone. We put up a baby gate to keep her out of the livingroom when nobody is in the room with her. Even if I just go take a shower, if I don`t shut the babygate, (and I have to latch it, too, she knows how to open it if it`s not latched) she`ll pee on my carpet while I`m in the shower. Then she`ll lay back down by the bathroom door like she is innocent. (little stinker) She gets let out first thing in the morning, all day, and before we go to bed. She is very rarely left alone.
I think some of the sheepies are so attached to their people, that they don`t like to be left outside by themselves. So we always go out with her. I have a park bench, and adirondak chairs in the back yard, so I hook her on her chain, and sit out there with her. I don`t play with her when it`s potty time, either. She`ll go potty when she`s out there, but she`ll go in the house, too. They seem to go when they think you aren`t looking, so maybe you should try leaving your sheepie out by herself, and watch her from a window. ?? I`ve also noticed sometimes when I put Zoe out by herself, she`ll bark and bark, and want to come in, but if I don`t let her in right away, she`ll "go" outside. It`s hard to say, especially when you`ve tried everything. Their personalities are so complex. I`m interested in this topic for my own self, like Zoe isn`t enough. (but I`d NEVER give her up!) My husband wants to get another sheepie pup. I hope another one doesn`t do the same as Zoe. I`m thinking she might teach a new pup her bad habits. |
| Teri,
Have you had Zoe tested for any medical conditions that may be causing this? I would be concerned that something else was going on with her. I would consider whether there was a medical reason for her accidents (UTI, hormonal incontinence (is she spayed?), etc.). I would discuss this with your Vet!!! If you think she's doing it because of nervousness (seperation anxiety) - I would discuss that as well - maybe if you solve the problem of anxiety - it will solve the problem with housebreaking. The other thing that I think works wonders with housebreaking is Crate Training. I would highly recommend crating a puppy right from the start. I think Sydney was housebroken in a matter of a few weeks and it had alot to do with crate training. IMHO We've had problems in the past with housebreaking - but I think we were to blame. Two of our sheepies, Oliver & Ozzy, were paper trained and it didn't work very well. Oliver was 12 years old and peeing where the papers were when he was a puppy! 
Kristen |
teri wrote: My husband wants to get another sheepie pup. I hope another one doesn`t do the same as Zoe. I`m thinking she might teach a new pup her bad habits.
It would be extremely difficult to housetrain a new puppy if the existing dog wasn't housebroken! I would think it would be near impossible!!! |
| That's what worries me too... if Dancer isn't trained it's likely the pup will constantly pee where she does, mainly the kitchen floor. I just hope me being home will help, and maybe since I'm home the pup will learn good habits right off the bat, and maybe Dancer will pick up from her. Another thing is, I'd like to have the puppy sleep with me in my room along with Dancer, but Dancer has never ever peed in the bedroom, and if the pup pees in the bedroom will that wreck Dancer's one good housetraining habit? |
| Have you used the enzime urine removers they are suposed to be very effective I used plain old white viniager were my pup had pee peed and he has never gone in that spot again and I am to the point were I can finally let him in the house with out following behind him or having him on the leash next to me. he is almost seven months now and hasn't had an accedent for at least a month. good luck with your older dogs and the new pups. |
| That's good news to me toot! That's what I am planning on doing with Dancer, having her on a leash with me all the time. I got the impression that's what you did? I hope it worked.... |
| good enzyme mess/odor removers are Nature's Miracle and Simple Solution. Natural Chemistry isn't bad either...
they also make "pee posts" and pheromone sprays, I've given them a sniff and I must say, they made me want to potty on them! Try giving those a shot too, spray a bit outdoors when it's time to potty. It's quite strong. |
OK 1st of all YIKES!!!seems like alot of OES are hard too potty train,now im getting nervous!!  I had such wonderful turn out w/ my collie,and now Im reading all of this!!Lets see Mickey is 9weeks old now(so cute!! )and so far he is doing very well.We have had him since friday and he has had 2poop accidents.Im wondering if haveing a dog in the home who is already potty trained helps out w/ this area??Cuz a 6month old puppy should be on their way too being pretty much trained.Only in the potty area,not w/ other things like chewing,and eating dirt!!LOL!Have you thought about bringing in a dog who is already potty trained for a few days?And what about spaying(fixing)I know w/ some males that helps tons.Is that the same w/ females?someone please tell me they have an OES that was easy too potty train! |
| My first oes was easy to train, she only had one accident in the house EVER.
BUT, I was home with her for the first 6 weeks or so that I had her. 8 weeks old is really too young to expect any kind of reliablility, as I said in another reply. They don't even begin to gain control of the muscles in charge of "holding it" until around 16 weeks. This is varied, some earlier, some later, as with children. Mostly it is up to you to learn the puppy's habits, if you keep a regular feeding shcedule, you will notice the pup goes around the same times each day. Also, if you have changed the food that your pup was on with the breeder this will cause some upset in it's digestive routine. 2 accidents in how many days? If it is not every day then you are already making progress.  |
| Well, I have an update. I quit my job about three weeks ago, and as some of you know, my Vivi has made herself quite comfortable making pee pee in the house. Since I have been home, I have taken her out in the morning, then every two to three hours afterward. If she doesn't go, she stays in the kitchen, if she goes, she can wander the house. This seems to be working. Also, I keep saying to her "go potty, go potty. Sometimes it seems like she forgets why she's outside. The only problem I have is, if I don't keep an eye on her, I miss her "potty dance". She never barks when she has to go, and sometimes she will walk over to me and just stare at me, or shake her collar, which lets me know right away. She still goes in the house, but it is by far, less frequent. To Tanya, I say this...if I would have read this forum before purchasing my oes, I would have never ever gotten one, BUT...I have had many dogs, but none with the personality, love and goofiness of an oes. I swear, they are amazing, you'll see with your little one, they are natural born clowns! And what other animal are you going to get that looks like something off of The Muppet Show? [/i] |
| An update on our situation.... worse....
If any of you have more ideas I would really appreciate it. Dancer now refuses to pee in front of me at all. I've never scolded her, but I say"what's THAT?" in a disgusted tone of voice, so now she knows I don't like to see pee in the house, but she doesn't understand that I want her to go outside. She refuses to at all now. Last night I restricted her water intake from 6pm, instead of our usual 8 pm and it backfired on me. She was just able to hold it even longer. She held it all morning till just now, around noon, when I had to let her out of my sight for just an instant. She went to the kitchen and peed as fast as she could. I took her out 5 or 6 times between 7 am and noon and nothing. She kept jumping around the deck whining at the back door wanting to go in so she could pee. I kept her on a leash all morning attached to me, so she still couldn't pee (she won't on a leash but she will pee in her crate no problem  )
I tried starting from scratch with crate training, didn't work, she pees in it, all it meant was that I had to bath her 3 times a day. Tried putting a peice of linoleum tile, which I dabbed a paper towel with her pee on it, and put it outside, nothing. I tried letting her be outside by herself, on a 25'cable, since our fence has been torn down because of construction, nothing. (I watched from the window) She's no little puppy anymore, she is almost full grown, so although she pees less frequently now, only about 3 times a day, they are BIG puddles now. She has never pooped outside, but I'm more concerned with the pee for now. She'll hold her poop for days if she doesn't get a chance to do it in the house out of my sight. I've never ever caught her at it, she's bloody fast! She never poops in her crate however.... Ugh! I am at a loss. I have tried EVERYTHING that people have suggested, read books, bought videos, you name it. I only have about 6 more weeks before I have to go back to work... so I really really want to have her trained before then otherwise I'll be coming home to a crate full of pee and a soaking wet, smelly dog to bath every single day. |
| I know how frustrated you must be! You've done everything possible - without resolution! Hang in there!
Is there a way that you could see if she'll go outside for someone else - other than you and when she does - she could be rewarded by both that person and you! I don't know if it will help - but it may be worth a try if possible. I'm at a loss as to what to suggest next! I would talk to your Vet again and see what they think! This problem is bigger than anything I've dealt with. Sorry! I'll send some positive energy up to you - in hopes that things get better and that "lightbulb" goes off in Dancer's head! Kristen |
| A few more things I thought of after re-reading your post....
My dogs often pee where the other one has pooped (like they are marking the poop!). Sometimes Sydney won't even wait for Brittney to finish pooping and she's under her butt pee'n in the same spot! Maybe if you work on the poop'n outside - the pee'n will come naturally????
Also - make sure you have a command for pee'n - and when you're outside - tell her to pee - don't allow her to play or wander, etc. while she's outside - confine her to one area - she has to learn she's out there for business and when she pees - tell her Good Pee and bring her in! Play time should be seperate from Pee/Poop time. (I'm sure you've tried this - I just thought I'd make sure). Have you tried putting something down in her "spot" inside that she would not want to step on - or pee on - like aluminum foil or a mat or something??? How about spraying the area with a "deterrent spray" ??? If it makes you feel any better - one of my dog's peed in the house last night!
Kristen |
| YAY! You thought of something I haven't!!! I bought a cheap roll of tin foil and taped it to the floor in the kitchen, just an area about 3 or 4 feet square, where she always goes. She hates the feel of it! But, now she won't pee at all! I did take her to the vet this afternoon, he said she's in perfect health, he squeezed her belly to get some pee to dribble out and looked at it and took it into the lab while we were there, no infection. He thinks she is simply stubborn and really does think she is supposed to pee in the house.
I don't know if she's not peeing at all now because of the vet squeezing her belly or if it's the tinfoil. He said although it makes no sense to scold a puppy for peeing in the house unless you catch them in the act he thinks maybe I should scold her when I see pee on the floor. Not rub her nose in it, but drag her to it and say bad girl, then take her outside and say good girl pee outside. He said because she is older, she does know it is pee, and she does know it is hers, though she may or may not connect it with the act itself. *shrug* I'll try anything at this point. Also, he said if that doesn't work, to start praising her for peeing whenever, wherever for a few days. It sounds ridiculous, but if she really believes peeing itself is bad, I have to let her know it's ok before i can catch her doing it to praise her outside. So by praising her for peeing wherever, then take her outside and when she finally does pee outside again, praise her like crazy, treats whatever it takes to get her excited. So, am I ever going to feel silly saying good girl go pee, I just love huge puddles in my kitchen! LOL He has a point though, this dog is so attached to me, so eager to please, that she probably got so confused somewhere along the way to think peeing is bad so don't pee when mom is looking. Thanks for letting me vent guys! |
| Willow, I was wondering if she goes in the house, would she go on a wee wee pad? If you place a few of them on the spot she goes, than praise her for peeing on it (easier to throw out a wee wee pad, then mop the floor ). Then when she gets used to going on the pads and knows that peeing itself is a good thing, take the pads outside, and see if she goes on them outside, and praise. Then, when she pees on the pads outside, you will be able to remove the pad as she is doing it and let her pee on the ground to get the scent. Take her to the same spot that she peed the first time so she can smell it to go again. I was wrecking my brain about this problem that you are having, and thought that this might work. Keep us posted on how it is going. |
| Well, things seem a bit better. I tried the vets first suggestion, dragging her over to her messes and saying bad girl, then taking her outside and saying go pee outside, good girl. I allowed her to have water until bedtime last night, and that hlped too, this morning she let me know she needed to go out (she never pees in the bedroom) so I took her out and she went within a couple of minutes, she tried to be out of my sight still and I had to pretend I wasn't looking, but she went. So I praised her like crazy, emphasizing the good girl, PEE OUTSIDE part and gave her a marrowbone. I don't think she really gets it though. We'll see I guess how she does today, now that I've had a chance to praise her in the act, hopefully if I catch her making a mistake I can take her outside in the middle of it and praise her again.
Marley, as to the training pads, I do have some of those, I bought them a while back and gave them a try but she only wanted to lay on them and then shred them. LOL Well, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. If this doesn't work, then I guess I'll resort to paper training and praise her for peeing in he house and then shrink the area of papers and gradually move them outside. That's always worked for dogs I had growing up, before crate training was the way to go. I've just never tried it with a 7 month old pup. |
| I would try not to use the pee pads - it will be even more confusing for her when you then tell her she can't go inside anymore. Just my opinion!
Make sure she knows that inside is not good - whether or not it's on the papers/pads or not! I hope things work out for you! It certainly won't be for lack of effort if it doesn't! |
| Willow,
Could you try keeping her outside for a while? A few days or weeks, perhaps? I know you want her to be a house dog, but of every dog I've had, if they were kept outside at first, for a while, they seemed to be almost housebroken when I brought them in. They learn to go outside, and will go to the door when they need to (my experiences, anyway). Of course, this is assuming you have the available fenced area, shelter, and of course, grooming is going to take more time. You could always turn her back into a "housedog" when she gets the idea. |
| I know that works for some people, and some dogs handle that ok, but Dancer is my baby girl, she is very much a people person. I know she absolutely could not handle being left outside alone for any length of time. Sheepdogs love their people, to me that is like asking a human child to survive on a deserted island with no means of communication or any means of fending for themselves for months or years and expect them to be ok. Not to mention it is waaaay too hot to leave a dog outside right now. And even if all that were not the case, I have no doubt someone would steal her. I just cannot take that chance, it would be like having one of my kids kidnapped, worse because I can prevent it. I appreciate your suggestion, but it is just not for me. I really believe sheepdogs need to be with their people as much as possible, part of the family. |
| OK, I had to let that one sit awhile. Willow, I'd like to apologize to you. It was never my intention to offend you or suggest or even imply that you be cruel to your dogs. Please let me clarify. I've never had to go this route with Lizzie. She house-trained very easily. We got her in Feb, which is a very cold month for Iowa, so she was indoors ALL the time. She now spends about 1/2 her time indoors, 1/2 out, her choice. She always has fresh water and shelter. She has a dog house outside and the garage is always open to her. Usually, she prefers the porch anyway. My reason for my suggestion is this: I got my first sheepdog at the age of 3 months. He'd been born outdoors and kept outdoors. When I brought him home, and inside, he never once had an accident and always went to the door when it was time. Not only Clyde, but every other dog that I'd known as an "outside" dog seemed to know that indoors was not the place for this. Also, dogs ARE animals and it's part of their nature to want some freedom. I, for one, believe it's cruel to keep them indoors all the time. I'm not saying shut them outside and ignore them, they can still have plenty of attention and caring, even when they are outdoors. And of course, common sense says you wouldn't leave an animal outdoors in unbearable heat.
I am fortunate enough to work at home, so I am around her all the time, indoors or out. Since my work involves children, Lizzie always has plenty of attention. And, we live in an area where most people do not even know what a sheepdog is, the popular dogs in this area are the hunters. So theft isn't a big concern. Most people are also intimidated by her sheer size! I realize that my suggestion isn't an option for everyone. It is just that. A suggestion. Please accept my apology, and I hope you will be willing to extend advice to me, should I need it. Sincerely, |
| Hi Brenda,
I don't think Willow took your suggestion as offensive. I have heard the same thing about dogs staying outside will figure out potty training on their own. I live in Oklahoma where our temps can get 90's and 100's very early and stay that way late into the evening. My dogs are inside most of the time as they don't like it outside, but in early spring and late fall they don't mind going out as long as we are out with them. They are both big babies that can't not stand to be away from us. I recently had a argument with my best friend because she wanted me to put our dogs outside when she came to visit. I quickly explained these dogs live here, she doesn't. I know there are plenty of people who have dogs that live outside all the time and some that live half in and half out. I just choose to let the dogs choose and they want to be inside mostly. You did have a great suggestion and I for one appreciate any advice on this forum....there have been a lot of things that I come back to check on and change things as I learn. You might of helped someone else with a potty training problem.
Give Lizzie a hug for me, Stormi and co. |
| I am finally able to post today, but pretty much everything my post said has been covered. I did want to let you know that when Annabelle was around Dancer's age that she was still having infrequent accidents....and I stupidly yelled at her while she was going. For some reason when I did that it reconditioned her to think that I wanted her to go inside. We went for a few weeks of her looking right at me and going and wiggling over to me as proud as she could be. I finally had to stay outside with her food and water and her during the days and praise her and give her treats for going outside...it only took a few high pitched good girls and she figured out really quickly that mom wanted her to go outside to do her business. She hasn't had an accident in a long time and she now has full run of the house all night and day. They both do, but Jack got the privilage first. I think the vet told you pretty much what I went through, so just give it a couple of weeks and it hopefully will get better. If she loves pleasing you like Annabelle does, it won't even take 2 weeks.
I am not sure I would use pee pads, I think that would confuse her, but I have never used them so I really don't know. I was also reading from Dr Fosters magazine that there are some yard stakes that the dog smells and they will go on it.....it might work, but I don't know. Maybe with your hubby on vacation, you guys can plan something out in the yard to do and you guys can potty train her while he is on vacation. Sounds fun, huh!?! 
Good luck and keep us posted.....Stormi and co. |
| Ugh, unfortunately, 'talking'online does not convey our body language, tone or inflection. I wasn't offended at all. My first oes spent all kinds of time outside, and my parents dog spends most of his time outside other than in bad weather, and is very much loved and well cared for, he's a very happy pooch. It's just Dancer that is different. She is even more a people person than most sheepies I think. Not an anxious dog, just a velcro dog, and I don't mind in the least. We used to have a fenced in yard, and if our fence was still up I'd feel slightly more comfortable leaving her out without me, even if only for a little bit. But, with the new homes being built all around me the developers tore down my fence, cut down all my trees and I went from having no neighbors for a block to all of a sudden having 30 houses crammed into the one previously empty block I live on. Now that my fence is gone a lot of teens and even adults, who obviously have no respect for others, traipsing through my yard at all hours. My house was broken into and robbed last March, and since then, things have been ripped off my car, things stolen out of my garage etc. We're desperately looking for another house, but homes big enough for our family are few and far between, so it may take a while yet. In the meantime, I don't trust anyone around here to leave my baby girl alone. It used to be a lovely small town, close knit community, safe. Now, there is a mega jail, maximum security, not too far from my house. So, safety is a big issue. LOL Not really a laughing matter... but you know what I mean....
I'm sorry if I offended you or upset you, that was not at all my intention, and I do appreciate all the advice, I love it here.... you guys have become great friends. Thank you |
| Willow,
I know that putting dogs outside is taboo to alot of people and I didn't want you to think that I condoned cruel behavior to animals. I've been a an animal nut since I could walk, my parents always laughed about how our cats and dogs would follow me around! "Nough said.
That's too bad about your neighborhood. We live in an OLD small town in Iowa. Most of the people around here think I'm crazy for having an OES. It's kind of a "Duh, you mean she doesn't hunt?" mentality with most of them here. They aren't exactly in high demand here. I did have a few problems with teenagers traipsing through my garden at the back of our house, especially AFTER we put up the fence. We have a park/playground across the street from us and the fence kept them from cutting straight across. So now they go around the house and through my garden. I've been planting natural barriers to try to dissuade them from going that way and I think it's working! Now, I have a question for YOU. Potty training!! Any advice for a 3 year old boy (human)? Mine went all over the floor this morning, even though he was sitting on the "throne". LOL! He sometimes to forgets to tuck it down! I think today was intentional, though, so he could get a little extra attention. Have a great day! |
| Ah the joys of baby boys! Actually, with my boys I taught them to aim by letting a handful of cheerios float in the toilet, and told them to shoot them. LOL It worked, they thought it was so much fun they wanted to pee more often than they actually had to. It kills two birds with one stone so to speak, it teaches them to aim, while encouraging them to use the potty. Target practice time!
Girls are so much easier, my daughter potty trained herself, she just decided one day when she was about 2 that since big people pee in the toilet she would too, and that was it. |
| That would work, but Noah is extremely short for 3. In the 5th percentile for height, actually, and he can't get it up (LOL) high enough! My daughter was trained at just 2 weeks after her 2nd birthday, and every girl I've worked with in daycare was fairly easy. Just boys being boys, I guess! |
Haha This has turned funny, I trained Joey with cheerios also, how funny.....he is short too, and just stood on a stool. I have some great stories about my boy......we have 2 bathrooms, and one of them only the 2 kids use. Well, we were working on our so I went to the kids bathroom....it smelled really badly of urine, but looked clean. I coudn't figure it out. I finally figured out that my son had been using the trashcan as a potty and it was full of trash and standing in pee.  I was shocked. We had a big boy talk about how to properly go to the bathroom....now do you know how that worked. I went in to flush after him and the toilet bubbled, I couldn't figure that out for a week or more. I finally walked in on him washing his hands WITH soap and that is why the toilet bubbled.
Wow, aren't children fun. I do have a lot of fun raising them, and wouldn't have it any other way.
You might just have to go in with your son for a few weeks to get him in the habit of pointing down. A gentle reminder 10 times a day, Oh bother. LOL
How is it going with Dancer? Stormi and co. |
| Yeah, Stormi, I know. I usually go in with him, and he usually does pretty well. But, this morning, I left the room to throw his pj's in the laundry, and he's in there yelling,' Peeing on the floor, Mom, peeing on the floor!". I almost always stay with him, except when he's pooping, then he says, "You go in the kitchen Mom". Ain't kids fun? Anyway, this isn't helping Willow with Dancer! Maybe taking her mind off it for a minute, though! |
| Yes, and taking my mind off it even for an instant is nice! I think things are a bit better. (I don't want to say too much and jinx it) She has only had one accident today (crossing fingers, touch wood... )
She is with me constantly, on a leash. I even take her to the bathroom with me when I have to pee. I am not taking her outside too often, since she won't pee unless she simply cannot hold it anymore, lol. Today she actually whined and jumped around a bit at the back door to let me know she needed to go out *gasp* (touch wood again) The leash works, but she will still take advantage of any chance she gets to be out of my sight to pee. I can tell she would much rather pee in the house. When she does pee outside she tried to go around the corner of the house so i can't see her, even though I praise her like crazy and give her treats and hugs and kisses. I dunno.... maybe she just wants privacy, lol... Either way, I'm pleased with her progress, except I don't think it will be anytime soon that I can let her off the leash. We also took her to the school yard today, which is mostly fenced in and fairly large, and I took a chance that training had paid off and let her run a bit, leash still dragging behind her just in case. She loved it, chasing the tennis ball, picking the heads off the dandelions, lol, herding all the little kids....lol... she didn't bark at any of the kids until an older rude teenaged boy came into the yard swearing and being obnoxious with his friends. Dancer didn't like him at all! (I said she had good instincts) She wanted all the little ones to stay close to her until he left. She wasn't aggressive with him, but she certainly did not want this boy to come any closer. That's my girl! |
| Willow- Lizzie does the same thing with kids. If she thinks any of the older ones are being too rough with the younger ones, she will bark at them until I come to see what all the fuss is about! She hasn't tried herding any of them into a corner yet, though it wouldn't surprise me. I read somewhere that they will either have a tenedency towards herding or retrieving. I believe Liz might be more of a retriever. She will always fetch, she just won't always GIVE! LOL!
Sounds like maybe you are getting somewhere with Dancer. Good luck! |
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