Laberdoodles, shnoodles, goldendoodles, labradoodles etc
[And what about schnoodles or shnoodles, goldendoodles, labradoodles. What's next, a poodle-parrot-wollaby mix, a pollywallydoodle? -Ron] |
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| In my opinion toot it is outrageous to sell a mixed breed dog for that price. If a breeder is trying to develop a new breed and is working with whatever registries are necessary, that's a bit of a different story and should be left to the experts. JMHO
Ads such as you described are simply misleading and ripping people off. The funniest ad I ever saw was in the toronto star several years ago... puppies for sale, mother registered poodle, father, good fence jumper. Best offer. |
| I think labradoodles are going for so much money because they are hypoallergenic.
i personally dont think its a big deal, i dont think a dog should be worth less because they are a mixed breed. labradoodles are adorable dogs, and the 4 that i have worked with have all been very good tempered and have beautiful non-shedding coats. |
| but my true question is it right to mix dogs and rearrange breeds to form your own standards? I know that it is how all breeds were started but the shelters and pounds are full of unwanted dogs why are we making mixed breeds and calling them a new revolution? and poodles are hypoallerginic how come they arn't good enough? labs and poodles both tend to be high need dogs to mix them togather seems crazy to me. I own one pure breed dog and that is my sheep dog he is from a owner breeder who just wanted to find him a home I was looking to get a dog from the shelter or rescue club when I found him and yes I took him home I love him and have had his hips checked (they are not great but just ok) and have had him casterated(was going to do this even if he had great hips)I am not a breeder and don't exactly think breeding dogs is going to better them. personaly my two mix breeds are as pure to my heart as my sheepie.I am just of the mind set that we need to clean up the shelters before we start making new breeds of dogs. I hope I haven't offended any breeders out there I know you belive in your cause and yes people do like to know what they are getting into when they get a dogthis is the good side of breeding like I said myself I was looking to rescue A pure breed for this v ery reason.I love all dogs and all dog people have their reasons for doing what they do.I am not trying to tell breeders to stop breeding the dogs they love. I only wanted to hear how others feel and I really thank you for your replys. |
| I agree, I think it is ridiculous as well! I feel that anyone who is breeding these "new breeds" is in it solely to make a buck and are do not consider the welfare of the breeds they are messing with or the dogs! They aren't considering the genetic faults of the breeds - and trying to minimize those faults!
It's a FAD! The latest craze I've seen are "Puggles" - a cross between a Beagle and a Pug! I ask, "WHY???". What's the purpose other than to have the latest "product" on the market??? Just like the latest pair of jeans.....only these are LIVES we are talking about! There are plenty of hypoallergenic dogs around - I don't think we need to mass produce anymore! Where will all of these dogs end up when the FAD ends - you can't just put them in the bin at Good Will like you can those jeans you bought when they were popular! What happens when you get a puppy with the worst of both breeds??? Some breeds (and some coloring within the same breeds) aren't meant to be bred - or they end up with genetic defects (blindness, deafness, heart defects, etc.) - is anyone carefully selecting what breeds/dogs they are breeding for this purpose! Those are the dogs that are killed or kept in the MILL for breeding purposes - until they die! You will not find any reputable and respectable breeder selling one of these breeds! JMHO! Kristen |
| hm. i definitely see where you guys are coming from. i agree that we need to help take care of the dogs in the shelters instead of mass producing dogs. i think all irreputable breeders should be ashamed of themselves and wish that more could be done to educate people about who not to buy from, as its usually ignorance not apathy that makes people buy from pet stores and bad breeders.
as far as messing with genetics and producing defects in breeds, thats exactly what people are doing now with purebred dogs. by only allowing a few dogs to reproduce breeders are only allowing a small variety of genes in their puppies, and sometimes accidently selecting for aggression, hip problems, etc. if dogs were out there reproducing for themselves all of this would get figured out, and dogs would interbreed. there are so many respectable breeds of dogs right now that started out as mixed breeds as well, i dont see the problem with adding another breed (as long as its done by a respectable breeder, and if you are right that there are none that are mixbreeding dogs out there then i definitely agree that we shouldnt be buying these dogs) i also think that youre right about 'fad' dogs. unfortunately i think this spills over to pure bred dogs as well. there was a post on this on the oes-list today about the rise in demand for jack russels after frasier, dalmations after 101 dalmations, and fearfully oes's after the release of the movie the shaggy dog. if you go to any local rescue youll see tons of dogs given up because their parents thought they would be cool but couldnt handle them (tons of huskies im sure, as theyre just the cutest puppies but a major handful) and its just plain sad. i hope that this doesnt happen with these mixbreeds as well. i think we agree on the main points: puppy mills and mass producing breeders are selfish, there are too many people buying puppies because theyre 'cool' or 'cute', and that breeding dogs can accidently lead to a trend of genetic defects. i just think that labradoodles as well as the other mixes, if bred correctly, shouldnt be considered any less valuable because they are a mix. (sorry for the long post, i think this discussion is really interesting!) |
Lil Walty wrote: as far as messing with genetics and producing defects in breeds, thats exactly what people are doing now with purebred dogs. by only allowing a few dogs to reproduce breeders are only allowing a small variety of genes in their puppies, and sometimes accidently selecting for aggression, hip problems, etc.
Reputable breeders following ethical breeding practices are not "allowed" to breed dogs without the proper medical evaluation and testing first - which is to decrease the chance of producing "defects". Ethical breeders should discontinue breeding a sire / dam if they produced puppies with any "defects" (including aggression!). It's the breeders that are trying to breed to produce certain "looks" of a dog (i.e. White Head / Blue Eyed OES), the mills, back yard breeders, etc. that aren't considering the health and temperment of the sire/dam that are ruining the purebred dogs! If I were looking for a puppy (of any breed) - I would want to ensure the breeder was following "guidelines" such as described in the OESCA Code of Ethics (even if they weren't OESCA members - it's a good guideline to use to evaluate a breeder). All breeds have "Breed Clubs" that can help to ensure selection of a reputable breeder! http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamer ... 202000.htm I am not saying there any dog is less valuable - they are ALL priceless as far as I'm concerned! They are part of my family - not part of my property! 
Kristen |
| I am sorry I didn't mean to imply that Laberdoodels or any dog is not worth the money they are .especially the one that are stray and homeless.I just ment that to a person new to dogs who dosn't know any better thay would go out and buy this dog beliving it to be as pure a breed as the ones that have been around for many years .I really would love to see what goes into the breed selection of one of these breeds or even to talk top a good breeder. I do have a dog who comes into the boarding kennel that I work for he is a boston pug cross gotten from a pet store He is the worst of both breeds he just cant contain himself and it is heart breaking to see that his family love him(I do to) but really are having alot of behavior problems with him.Yes I know it happens with all breeds. |
| Labradoodles actually were bred in Australia for handicapped persons who were allergic to dogs and couldn't keep up with the rigorous grooming routine of a poodle. Or so says an article in the HOUSTON Chronicle in March of this year. So the breed was NOT started as a fad or on a whim, but with a great deal of thought. This is how all breeds should be introduced, to fill a need.
Both breeds are very intelligent, biddable, and loyal, while still being people friendly and accepted by the general population. There are good and bad points to keeping any animaL population PURE. If you limit the gene selection, you limit an animals adaptability. I am speaking as a biologist. Whenever you base something purely on medical history, you are going down a one-way road. If we were to eliminate all near-sighted people from reproducing we would have such a small gene pool that we would be experiencing serious abnomalties within 10 generations. We already find that we are have genetic diseases pop up at an alarming rate. The same happens in all animal populations. Breeders who insist their way reduces genetic diseases, are fooling only themselves. The use of the word REDUCES implies the technique isn't working. We are going to lose our known breeds if the reduction of gene material continues. At the same time, everyone is making a very valid point about the over population problem. The solution is to limit breeding, even by breeders. To encourage this AKC and other registries should allow spayed and modified dogs to enter competititions, thus supporting a responsible attitude that reproduction of even the best is not needed. No matter how adorable puppies are, there really is no need for any more, only the desire. And as long as that exisists, there will be more puppies, kittens, and other pets being bred and sold. Thus, officially designated breeders would help control the population and insure the humane treatment of the dogs themselves. Unless we agree to allow only a few people to breed, we will have to come up with some way to limit the pet population while insuring each breed gets a chance to survive for future generations. Perhaps allowing each bitch only one litter or something as drastic, but equitable. We need to think about it and do something before the problem gets even more out-of-hand. People are less inclined to abuse something if it isn't plentiful and is more cherished. It is our nature. |
| yes all your points about limiting the genetics are what i was trying to say in my initial post (im taking a biology class can you tell? haha), i absolutely agree with you and am very glad that someone with a better background in science was able to form the argument i was trying to get at.
(i was thinking about adding a side note about how cute labradoodles are but i guess that wouldnt help my argument about reducing the number of dogs bred and adopting adult dogs instead puppies! but really they are very cute!) |
| Isn't it ironic that we on this forum represent the extremes of AgingRight's arguments: many of us have OES rescues (who generally should never have been bred), some of us have OES who came from puppy mills (and ALL of these should never have been bred.) And then we have other members desperate for well-bred OES who must travel all over the country to get them. I am not making any point about how we came to acquire our individual dogs--we are not a good sample population of dog owners, we love dogs too much to be the statistical average. Rather it seems that the supply and demand should have equalized better. I guess as long as dogs are treated as commodities for sale rather than sentient beings, the paradox of overbreeding and poor supply of well-bred dogs will be with us. |
| i noticed here (myself included) that a lot of us dont realize the problem with some of these breeders until after weve bought from them. i also had no idea there was a sheepdog rescue right by my house until i started posting on here after i got walter. it also wasnt that appealing to me to get a rescue sheepdog until i read all the great stories about shaggy, jake, panda, maggie (and the rest.. sorry to those i left out).
right now at my work were trying to orchestrate an adoption day, and depending on how much of a say i have im going to try to invite the oes rescue by me. i hope that as were making these mistakes with breeders and puppy mills we not only educate ourselves but start spreading the word about rescue dogs and reputable breeders to others thinking of getting a puppy |
| Have a look at this...
http://www.petcitypets.com/pics.html |
| You know what, puggles are really really cute...lol...
The website has a point about hybrids not having congential defects. It's not necessarily always true, but there is a phenomenon in genetics called 'hybrid vigor' that occurs within all species. In this instance though, I do think that the people interested in these breeds are trying to bring out the best in both and are creating a new breed. I still believe though, that the registries exist for many good reasons. |
| I think a lot of the problem with our nation of fad dogs, status symbol dogs, and over crowded shelters is due in part to the AKC. Don't get me wrong I have a lot of respect for the AKC and their mission. However, I don't think they (AKC) are as careful as they should be in ensuring that dog breeders are breeding purebred dogs for the betterment of the specific breed not just to make a profit. I have seen undercover news stories that show that the AKC does not always keep accurate records on dogs nor do they check the breeders records as often as they should. This enables some ill motivated breeders to breed pure bred dogs in mass for profit with little to no consideration to the animal's living conditions or betterment of the breed. I feel strongly that this is part of the cause of over crowded shelters, ie.) over breeding of dogs (purebred and mixed for profit with little regard for their future wellbeing). |
toot wrote: I was so out raged the other day looking on the internet and saw a laberdoodle for $1000.00 .I was just wondering if anyone has an opinion on cross breeding dog breeds. don't think it is right for a breeder to mix dogs and sell the for big money I personaly feel that this is messing with the breed.any coments or info on this would be very helpful to me because right now I just don't understand.Thanks [And what about schnoodles or shnoodles, goldendoodles, labradoodles. What's next, a poodle-parrot-wollaby mix, a pollywallydoodle? -Ron] |
| Unfortunately as long as people are willing to pay $1000 for a hybrid there will be people breeding them.
As many of you know (  as if anyone who has read any post by me wouldn't know ) I have a new puppy arriving in 1 wk 3days and a couple hours. I had decided that for my second puppy I wanted a different breed, originally I was looking for a "hybrid" of that breed because I thought I could not affor a pure bred......... imagine my surprise when I discovered that many of these so called hybrids (we used to call them mutts) were MORE expensive than the purebred!!!! |
| When I read about Labradoodles and Goldendoodles and all those other hybrd breeds, I tought it was really dumb. If you want to get a hybrid (fancy for MUTT) get yourself a rescue dog!!!!!!!
Then I made some research and found out some of the breeds indeed had a purpose, I guess what feels dumb is the marketing approach that has been used to introduce thse dogs, they sell them as the lastest thing to own without consideration to the life you're dealing with. I still like mutts, My favorite one was Buzz, a mix of like 100 different breeds... Too bad we promised him my sister in law. I just hope all the people who buy these mixed breeds doggies care for them as much or more as they would care for a purebreed. |
| As an owner of a goldendoodle, I will tell you that he is the BEST dog I have ever owned. As someone who has owned several purebred dogs...labradors, german shepherds and german shorthaired pointers, I will absolutely tell you that having a mixed breed is the best. You get the best traits in both breeds and yes, it is well worth the money. The labradoodles were originally bred as service dogs for people w/allergies, as someone previously mentioned, and I believe the goldendood stemmed from that breeding program. I agree completely that people should not just go out breeding their dogs and producing more unwanted puppies, but because I was bitten as a child by a dog (purebred BTW), I was nervous about getting a rescue dog or shelter dog w/o knowing the background. I would not want to bring a dog into our family w/small children and have something terrible happen. I chose a goldendoodle because I wanted certain traits and a dog which I could raise from puppyhood so to mold it's development and growth. My dood is EVERY thing I have ever wanted in a dog, extremely social, loves kids, gentle, playful, VERY intelligent, obedient, and he doesn't seem to have those quirky traits I saw in the purebreds. I just think it is important to keep in perspective that even though the goldendoodles and labradoodles are a "new breed" in the making, so were all of the other "registered" breeds at one point or another. They are all mixed somewhere back in the bloodlines. Does it matter that it happened hundreds of years ago or just a few? I think as long as it's done professionally and with the best interest of the "breed", then I'm all for it. Check out the website www.goldendoodles.com for more information about the breed. Thanks for listening! |
| I agree with the above poster and I remember when this was first posted. I did my best to stay out of it.
I'm using a little of what I wrote a long time ago (here), and adding stuff in the middle. They are now just becoming so popular because after some tampering and a lot of lab testing (in an actual lab dedicated to THIS mix), they have pulled the gene that causes them to shed and given the lab the non-shedding side of a poodle. They are not just normal "mixes." So what if people have made a breed that now everyone can enjoy (those with allergies)? Yay for them. They are doing the same thing for cats. I think it's amazing. 1,000 doesn't sound like much to me considering I've mainly been interested in breeds that at least cost 1,200-2,500. Anyways, I wouldn't pay that much if it didn't come from the breeders talked about on the news when the breed is mentioned. Doesn't even sound a lot to me considering the growing cost of any dog from a good line. To me, in many cases, it EASILY evens out to the FREE dog or cheaper dog someone else pays when they deal with health problems. Not everyone has this experience, but it definitely is a common one. I used to maintain a forum FOR the people who do this in Australia, so know a lot about the process and history of obtaining a labradoodle/goldendoodle. There are only a few ...and I do mean a few... breeders in the US who actually give you what is being "advertised" everywhere lately (seen news articles, tv shows, etc). The ones who do offer what you are hearing about received an offspring from 1 of 2 places: Rutland Manor (on the news the most) ...and they work with a place called Tegan Park (located in same country) They are growing and channeling off and have successful helped others to become breeders of these wonderful, intelligent and loving dogs .......to places like St. Clairs and/or Canadoodles. I LOVE them!! |
| Don't get me wrong, I am not against hybrids. I think that you can wind up with some really unique dogs with the best characteristics of both breeds. But, I don't believe that the cost of these puppies should be as much, or in some cases more than the cost of the pure bred dogs. A hybrid is a "crap shoot" you may or may not wind up with what you are looking for, a pure bred dog (at least theoretically) should come from carefull selection of genes with a fairly consistent outcome. |
| I think there's an additional concern from an end-buyer perspective. I've heard a few people say that they are thinking about buying a dog now that these "low maintenance" new hybrids are available. The advertising by breeders here in the US leads people to believe that the *doodles are bred for all of the best traits (non shedding, obedient, great personalities, etc,). People who would have been hesitant to buy a dog before think they wil get the "perfect" dog with no time investment. And, as we all know (and I learned it the hard way), in order to have a well behaved, happy dog you need to put in some quality time training, reinforcing good behavior, socializing, etc. I worry that we will see these dogs in the shelters when the buyers realize that all dogs, including *doodles, take time and effort. |
| I agree with Sue. My brother's family got the CUTEST! goldendoodle last summer and he definitely needed a lot of training (no more than a regular dog!) and they knew that and trained him, etc. But I agree that it gives a potential misconception that these are superdogs that come trained because they have such great obedient personalities...
I was researching labradoodles for a while because I am allergic to everything and thought they would be a good choice. I don't see anything wrong with responsible breeders breeding them. They have done their research and to me, is not any worse than a purebred dog being bred after proper research. Once the doodles start coming from backyard breeders and puppy mills, that's when there will be problems, but that goes for any breed... And, to me, the price seems fair (if $1000 for any dog is fair!) because although this isn't a purebred dog, it is a specifically bred dog with standards and a certain end result that is being sought after...I love em... |
| May be a silly question but, what happens when you breed a labradoodle with a labradoodle? |
barney1 wrote: IAnd, to me, the price seems fair (if $1000 for any dog is fair!) because although this isn't a purebred dog, it is a specifically bred dog with standards and a certain end result that is being sought after...I love em...
And who sets the standards? |
A. Yager wrote: May be a silly question but, what happens when you breed a labradoodle with a labradoodle?
A "Doodleladoodlela Doooo" |
| Breeding ....Why? Most people who let their dogs have puppies do it for all the wrong reasons. Let the kids experience the miracle of life, or MONEY the big evil. These puppies do not ask to be born and 50% of them end up in a shelter and/or euthanised. Breeds take years to develope..even centuries, and the dogs are bred for a reason so best be left to the experts. The only way that breeding should be allowed is where the history of the dogs is known so that the knowledgeable people know what they are striving for, and why. Hereditary problems shold not be allowed to be passed down, and unless a dog has been tested and proven to be free of the problems in that breed it should not be bred. This is just cruel to the animals that result of these litters. So anytime a dog is expecting, and puppies are available the question to ask is WHY? Where people can make money off of them is the worst case of disreagrd for animal welfare there is. I highly doubt that these puppies are begin spayed and netured before sold, so it just aggrevates the prolble. There are too many dogs and cats in this world right now, so unless the breeder is breeding tested animals that will not pass on degenerative faults, and it actually striving to improve an "established" breed they should keep out of it. These dogs do not all end up in happy homes for the rest of their lives. It is greed that causes all the problems. If these crosses were going for $50 apiece I would bet that the people producing them would not bother. And they are not all the same. Genes don't work that way. Each dogs is a different mixtures of genes from each parents, so cannot be created the same. Unless the heridity of the animals are known back 50 years or so, and so the genes can be built on or bred out, it is only greed that brings them into this world. IMHO : ) |
Quote: And who sets the standards?
I have no idea. I am not a breeding expert at all. I would think the Australians, who have been breeding them for almost 20 years have some regulations that they use...at least according to the website I was looking at. |
Well stated Bosley's Mom!!! Until recently I did not realize the hard work and terrible expense that a reputable breeder puts into breeding of quality dogs. Most breeders show, since showing is one of the few ways of "proving" the qualities of your line. This is a very expensive undertaking, add to that the cost of genetic testing, vet bills, care,etc etc etc. All of a sudden the $1500 0r $2000 price tag on a QUALITY purebred dog doesn't seem like so much money. If someone wants a labradoodle, I'm not going to say that's wrong. But a mutt is a mutt by any other name and to put a high price tag on it is beyond my understanding,. |
| To answer one of the question, when a labradoodle and another one tingle, they used to be commonly called a Double Doodle. And when that bred with another Double, it was called a Tri. Obviously they are all "labradoodles" ....but when needing further distinction, they are classified by their line.
F1 = labrador to poodle F2 = F1 labradoodle to F1 labradoodle F1B - 1/4 Labrador Retriever and 3/4 Poodle (Labradoodle F1 back to a Poodle) Multigen(F2) - F1B with another F1B |
| Bosley, what you last wrote can be said about any breeder, and that may have been your intentions, I don't know.
You won't find many people who pay tons of money for their dog ...let their dogs end up in the pound. There are 100's of lab/goldendoodle breeders who are backyard breeders, and they do not have the same standard personality, appearance, shedding characteristics as the ones that come from Rutland and Tegan Park (the creators). I know they specialize in insemination by profession (degree), and just like any good breeders have done a lot ot make sure their dogs go to good homes. All go with a spaying/neuter contract and a no breeding policy (of course you can't breed if they're fixed, haha). Those who do get permission are always in contact ......to this day...many years later and each of their dog's have the same reputation. The ones who end up in situations you described are the backyard breeders who took any lab and any poodle ...thinking they will have the same result. When these two places put the mixes together...it wasn't a "they had sex and voila.. = miracle dog." It was after a lot of research, and they heavily go over that on their website. There are several coats, but if you (anyone..no one specific) wanted to know more, they can go to their websites. |
| You won't find many people who pay tons of money for their dog ...let their dogs end up in the pound.
Unfortunately if this were true then there would be no need for "Breed rescues"..and even expensive labradoodles end up in shelters al the time : ( |
| I dont think it is a good idea to mix breeds and to charge that amount of money for one is a bit greedy i think. If you want a cross breed there are plenty to choose from in you local shelter . |
| Yeah when I backpacked in Australia last year for 4 months, I saw tons of labradoodles (they kinda looked like springer spaniels) i thought they were until i went into a pet store and learned that they were labradoodles. Like someone posted earlier - they were orginated in australia. i guess after people seeing labradoodles, they decided to go ahead and mix breeds. it's a trend, i dont think it'll last long. whatcha think?
how about that russian terrier? I just saw one today - so beaaautiful! |
| How about a PEEKAPUGOODLE pup? The pups are listed in the classifieds. I thought I saw one last week that was a maltese mix. Here's another one: Yorkie-huahua pups. Why? |
| This might be a bit late but I wanted to comment on the "doodles" comments. I myself have a Labradoodle. I am a animal lover and for years tried to have a pet and could not due to my allergies. About 3 months ago I saw that they were introducing these new breeds. I was filled with emotions and even more love when I saw them. I finally did get one and to tell you the truth and all honesty. They are worth it and i'm glad that they were mixed. Finally, someone thought of the people with allergies. It was a GREAT idea to mix them. Next step is to make them their own pure breed which is in process. Think about the people that are disabled and need a dog to help them around but can't because of allergies. These dogs were made for that particular reason then they became more wanted by us regular allergetic people. I love my dog. He is loving, protective of my family and loves people in general. |
toot wrote: I was so out raged the other day looking on the internet and saw a laberdoodle for $1000.00 .I was just wondering if anyone has an opinion on cross breeding dog breeds. don't think it is right for a breeder to mix dogs and sell the for big money I personaly feel that this is messing with the breed.any coments or info on this would be very helpful to me because right now I just don't understand.Thanks Geez, you guys are so behind. This is a teriffic addition to the DOG. I have a goldedndoolde who is the envy of everyone on my block. He is easy, gently, adorable, and very healthy. Quit being bugs in the system and move with the times. If we never improved anything we wouldn't have many of the things that make our lives easier today. Sure they are expensive but if you do your homework and look around you can find a great doodle! Go hybrids![And what about schnoodles or shnoodles, goldendoodles, labradoodles. What's next, a poodle-parrot-wollaby mix, a pollywallydoodle? -Ron] |
| The doodles are very popular at my dog park. They come in a lovely range of colors and they all seem like very friendly, playful, sweet, active dogs. Maggie's only complaint is that doodles seem to prefer playing with each other and she gets left out.
I tend to think that breeders are either responsible or not and I guess I would not judge just based on whether they are mixing breeds but on numerous factors described in other posts. I gather that that the official list of accepted breeds keeps growing (slowly) over time. Thoughtful, informed experimentation with combining breeds may lead to something we'd all be happy to identify as a new "purebreed" someday. . . It is like language. What starts as slang or idiom or experimental usage eventually finds its way into the dictionary. . . As for the price, given the vast market for dogs, I believe that customers set the prices by what they are willing to pay, not the breeders. |
| I owned goldendoodles before they were considered goldendoodles. Mine came into the world by pure accident, as one neighbors standard poodle got together with the other neighbors golden retriever. Out of the situation 9 beautiful little unwanted puppies were born. I ended up with 4 of them of which I found homes for 2 and kept 2 of the brothers for myself, (Hanny and Possom) I had 13 years plus with them, they passed on 3 months apart. Those two owned my heart in a way no other dog has. After 6 months of feeling like I just wanted to go on with them, we got Bam-Bam. It took him to fill their very special paws and even now 6 years later I still cry for them sometimes. They were exceptional animals, considered mutts in their time, but seemed to have the best of both breeds in their genes. Now that people are actually breeding them, I have mixed feelings??????????? |
For me I love ALL dogs,and have saved a couple of very abused pups.I know why I have had medical issues w/ my pure breeds,like severe allergies,epilepsy,and emotional scars and thats because i did NOT adopt them from a wonderful breeder,i chose too rescue my collies,my Brussles Griffon from puppy mills,(thank goodness my Brussels hasnt any medical isses YET,BUT man mentally!WOW!!  )However when i do adopt a puppy mill pup the pup is for me and I know the hard work I have too put into this poor creature due too someones negelt,when I was looking for a good fun healthy dog for Samantha(my 9yr old)I looked for something that was going too be healthy,and a mutt was the choice for us.Little Eddie is so darn crazy,and just so in love w/ my daughter.I ahve always thought mutts are healthier due too my choice too save a pup from a evil puppy miller.When I got Mickey(oes) I didnt want another pet w/ issues so I did check alot out about his breeder,and he has been so wonderful.I guess for me paying $1,000 out for a mutt is nuts,however Im sure if and when we get Sam another pet it will be a mutt,and who knows maybe a goldendoodle??Maybe by then they will only cost 300.00.LOL!!hehe!!Eddie is here for a looooooonnnng time I should say I have had ppl say too me,"why do you go get pups from puppy mills?"my answer is "I wantt oo save them,I know I cant save em all,but if I can save atleast 10pups in my life time,then that makes me happy,and also I have helped in shuting down 5 mills,slapping these idiots w/ HUGE fines,and some even jail,so too me saveing a soul and possibly slamming someone in jail is worth it too me." Tanyathenurse |
| we bought our laberdoodle alittle over two yrs. ago from Canadoodles..........it cost us about 3000...my wife was told she could never have a dog....we have a great member of our family now due to a great breeder...............we would pay anything to have another |
| sheepdogs were not created by god or nature, these things we love were once crossbred mutts like the ones you objct to. |
Joahaeyo wrote: To answer one of the question, when a labradoodle and another one tingle, they used to be commonly called a Double Doodle. And when that bred with another Double, it was called a Tri. Obviously they are all "labradoodles" ....but when needing further distinction, they are classified by their line.
F1 = labrador to poodle F2 = F1 labradoodle to F1 labradoodle F1B - 1/4 Labrador Retriever and 3/4 Poodle (Labradoodle F1 back to a Poodle) Multigen(F2) - F1B with another F1B --this assumes that all genes act as one allele. that's the problem with mendellian genetics, each trait divides on it's own alleles leading to the presence of multiple (and sometimes contradicting) genes. a dog that is bred from a poodle will not necessarily carry the poodle's coveted hypoallergenic coat, though it is most likely there will be some fur curling. |
Anonymous wrote: we bought our laberdoodle alittle over two yrs. ago from Canadoodles..........it cost us about 3000...my wife was told she could never have a dog....we have a great member of our family now due to a great breeder...............we would pay anything to have another
There is no price too great for a beloved pet and family member but HOKEY SMOKES $3000.00 you say???? |
Willowsprite wrote: In my opinion toot it is outrageous to sell a mixed breed dog for that price. If a breeder is trying to develop a new breed and is working with whatever registries are necessary, that's a bit of a different story and should be left to the experts. JMHO
Ads such as you described are simply misleading and ripping people off. The funniest ad I ever saw was in the toronto star several years ago... puppies for sale, mother registered poodle, father, good fence jumper. Best offer. But its ok to sell OES along with all the health issues??PLEASE the doodle breeders i know go all out to test for genetic diseases not to mention the tempraments are more balanced then many other Akc registered dogs , jealousy is not becoming if you havent taken the time to learn about the doodles then i suggest you do before making a comment like that |
wanderer wrote: Willowsprite wrote: In my opinion toot it is outrageous to sell a mixed breed dog for that price. If a breeder is trying to develop a new breed and is working with whatever registries are necessary, that's a bit of a different story and should be left to the experts. JMHO Ads such as you described are simply misleading and ripping people off. The funniest ad I ever saw was in the toronto star several years ago... puppies for sale, mother registered poodle, father, good fence jumper. Best offer. But its ok to sell OES along with all the health issues??PLEASE the doodle breeders i know go all out to test for genetic diseases not to mention the tempraments are more balanced then many other Akc registered dogs , jealousy is not becoming if you havent taken the time to learn about the doodles then i suggest you do before making a comment like that Trust me...she's not jealous. She owns a Sheepdog.  ...or 4. |
| LOL!
Also, nobody said it was OK to breed OES with health issues; some people are trying their best to breed quality OES without genetic issues. |
wanderer wrote: [But its ok to sell OES along with all the health issues??PLEASE
the doodle breeders i know go all out to test for genetic diseases not to mention the tempraments are more balanced then many other Akc registered dogs , jealousy is not becoming if you havent taken the time to learn about the doodles then i suggest you do before making a comment like that Where in the heck do these jokers come from? And why do they always have the same poor spelling skills and love of using bold letters? Do you think that the people responsible for these poorly written posts full of weak arguments are actually little children... who can only see bold? |
ButtersStotch wrote: Where in the heck do these jokers come from? And why do they always have the same poor spelling skills and love of using bold letters? Do you think that the people responsible for these poorly written posts full of weak arguments are actually little children... who can only see bold?
I think they must be bored... to continue dragging up old threads that obviously do not lean in favor of their opinions... LOL |
wanderer wrote: Willowsprite wrote: In my opinion toot it is outrageous to sell a mixed breed dog for that price. If a breeder is trying to develop a new breed and is working with whatever registries are necessary, that's a bit of a different story and should be left to the experts. JMHO Ads such as you described are simply misleading and ripping people off. The funniest ad I ever saw was in the toronto star several years ago... puppies for sale, mother registered poodle, father, good fence jumper. Best offer. But its ok to sell OES along with all the health issues??PLEASE the doodle breeders i know go all out to test for genetic diseases not to mention the tempraments are more balanced then many other Akc registered dogs , jealousy is not becoming if you havent taken the time to learn about the doodles then i suggest you do before making a comment like that WHO dredges up these old posts??? If the "guest" bothered to spend any time on this site you would see that everyone here is a strong advocate of health testing for all dogs. If you want a MUTT, fine get a MUTT but don't try to convince me or anyone on THIS board that they are "designer dogs" and worth the OUTRAGEOUS price the breeders are asking. |
| Actually, I wouldn't mind paying $$ for a well-bred doodle... |
| me too!!!!!!!! |
barney1 wrote: Actually, I wouldn't mind paying $$ for a well-bred doodle...
Nah, me neither. It's all in the breeding. I have no problem with the idea of it as long as it's done right. I only object to the use of bold. |
| I wouldn't have a problem paying the cash for a pup from a good breeder. But $3,000 for a pup from a litter on an average of 7 to 11 pups for a breed that's pretty common. That's crazy.
Wanderer, you might think that OES's are plagued with diseases, but give me a break if you think that the doodles won't develop their own set of problems as long as they continue to exist as a breed. Every breed sees their own share of medical issues. I abhor the idea of people deciding that breeding "designer" dogs is such a great way to make money, and don't take the necessary precautions to screen puppy homes, and do all of the necessary medical testing. Who forgot to tell me that this is the "stir up & insult people week" on the forum??!!! |
VerveUp wrote: Who forgot to tell me that this is the "stir up & insult people week" on the forum??!!! Ooohhhh....where are there other stirred up and insulting threads? (she says looking for gossip!)... HEY JILL! HOW YOU DOIN'? |
barney1 wrote: Ooohhhh....where are there other stirred up and insulting threads? (she says looking for gossip!)...
Here is the other one which is now LOCKED! http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=39 ... c&start=75 |
| oh im always too late on these threads!!
Next year in Chicago we (a bunch of animal rights groups/lobbyists) are working on mandatory spay/neuter and breeding licenses. I think all cities should do this so that we dont have to have these conversations anymore! |
Lil Walty wrote: Next year in Chicago we (a bunch of animal rights groups/lobbyists) are working on mandatory spay/neuter and breeding licenses. I think all cities should do this so that we dont have to have these conversations anymore!
I agree to a point about regulating certain things to try to control or put out of business puppy millers but I know right now in Louisville, KY there is some crazy legislation trying to get passed which would require spay/neuter at 4 months (way to early IMO) and restrictions of 3 total pets (cats & dogs) to a household, among other issues. I'll PM you with more details if you are interested. |
| Plus...they (Laberdoodles)...are NOT hybrids. I wish people would get that straight. A true hybrid is a donkey cross with a horse (mule)...or a Lion and tiger (Liger) or (Tigon)..and they become sterile.
PLUS...Laberdoodles are not genetically free of problems, they like all dogs have the same health issues. Parents must be tested. If you bake a loaf of bread from a dented pan...you will get dented loaves. What is good about them, is they don't shed as bad as a pure Lab, and they really do have sweet personalities. They do seem to gain the positives of both breeds and make a wonderful combo. Just don't believe they are healthier...all breeds have their issues, and it is important not to get caught up in the hype. Zoe is a Bichon/Cocker cross...and she has been diagnosed with a mild medial luxatting patella in her right back knee. Her temperament is a constant challenge....and she came from a breeder who likes to hype up the "hybrid" thing. She is definitely not better for it. |
| Lab Poodle crosses, Golden Poodle crosses etc, are mixed breeds....I hate calling them Doodle whatever...They are not a breed, but a mixture of 2 or more... The resulting dog is a crap shoot for what genes will be passed on from which parent. Some offspring will have the non-shedding gene, and some won't. Some will have the immense shedding gene, and some won't. Same with the temperament. It is a mix of two breeds, and the genes are all mixed up.....not mixed together and new ones made.
The local dog park has a chewing, mouthy, shedding Lab Poodle cross that his family is very disappointed in. And will probably end up going to rescue even thought they paid an outrageous amount to the backyard breeder of this mixed breed dog...and he is only a year old. Poor baby never asked to be born and the person responsible for bringing him into this world has long spent the money he made for them.. |
| Nicole, you said what the problem is...the backyard breeder, etc... I think that has a lot more to do with the poor quality of the dog than the actual breed of the dog. If the BYB was actually paying attention to quality and doing the crossbreeding correctly, that wouldn't necessarily be an issue.
My parents could claim that they are disappointed in their pure bred sheepdog (from a BYB--before my parents knew what that meant) because her coat is way too thin, she has an overbite and she is extremely skittish. |
| That's exactly what I was about to post.
The price for what the poster above paid for in "lab/goldendoodle" world is equivalent to them as paying for a dog from loehr or to-jo. While you said they cannot predict which dogs will get the gene of "shedding" or not... if you research the two breeders these dogs come from (in Aus), you will see they have found the gene that gives them the non-shedding or very light-shedding trait ...and only breed from this. I'm no expert to how it works, just know I've been a member of their forum for a very long time (not anymore) ...and they do not have dogs that shed anymore. And I'm not saying there's no hair that comes off these dogs, there are different coats they breed (wavy, curly, etc) that produce a different amount (from none to very little). It's the byb that sell any poodle and lab. They're the ones that claim they have dogs that don't shed, but have some that do. They're also the ones that will sell their sick dogs for the same price the breeders known through the news do. I guess there will always be someone who thinks paying XX amount is absurd. I meet people all the time that think it's ridiculous to pay 1,000+ for a show poodle or 2,000-3,000 for a Havanese (their going rate). Then those that love them will defend them the same way many people do here for an OES. A non-shedding breed that has the best of two TOP breeds is worth it to these people. |
| I personally know 3 people who have varying doodles
all 3 are nuts, I mean over the top hyper, uncontrollable looneys. This could be a reflection on the owners I hear you say...well yes maybe but they strike me as being reasonable owners who knows.!!!! Maybe its coincidence but I couldnt recommend them on what Ive seen. I also have a problem when I go to a Pet Shop here in Australia. If you enquire about a Puppy and ask to contact the Breeders because you want info on the parents and the place they were welped etc you get met with a FLAT NO!! I wouldnt buy from them anyway its just a thing with me. If I finally get an honest Pet Shop who does deal with honest breeders then Ill tell people. God we have enough rescue mix breeds as it is. Our shelters are over run. Anyway Im biased I wouldnt ever have anything but a Sheepie lolol |
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