Sheepie Pup in Howell, Michigan!
Here's the info- http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/dis ... id=6531542 Lilly Humane Society of Livingston County 517-552-8050 ext 10 sarah@humane-livingston.org Old English Sheepdog Size: Medium Age: Baby Sex: Female ID: 2140 Notes: Lilly is a purebred Old English Sheepdog. She was given up because her owner was shipped overseas for the military. Lilly has excellent house manners and is crate-trained. She has been around children as young as 2 years of age and likes going for walks. Lilly is house trained but might have an accident of left alone for too long. She is an affectionate dog who would do well in most any home. Lilly is anxious for a permanent home and is ready to go! This pet is up to date with routine shots. This pet is already house trained. This pet has been altered. |
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| Wasn't there another sheepie puppy from here a few months ago?
This is the town that the breeder that we got Izzie from lived. |
| Did they check for tatoo or micropchip to see if they could contact the breeder to rehome? Perhaps the owners didn't think to return her to the breeder, which it states in most contracts they are supposed to do. |
| I just called them, and they do not see a tatoo, they say they scanned for a microchip (no chip), and they say it came from a breeder in Michigan.
Apparently they don't contact breeders even if they can identify the dog because they have no way to tell if it is a reputable breeder or not. I can understand in this situation, if the dog is not chipped or tattoed, but it really makes me mad that she said they wouldn't try even if they have a chip or tatoo. Why do reputable breeders go to the extent they do to try to protect their dogs by tattoing, microchipping, and stating in contracts that if the ower cannot keep the dog for any reason they return the dog to the breeder? If that was a pup from me I would lose my mind! That's awful! |
| Yes, this same shelter had a sheepie pup earlier too... I remember you posted that you wondered if it was the same breeder of your sheepie. The lady with the shelter said they had tons of applications for that one. I emailed the shelter with contact info should they have a problem but I really don't think there will be one. Everyone will want her.
I guess breeders need to keep in constant contact with the new families or find a way to instill in the new family that it's mandatory they be contacted if the dog must be given up for any reason. Maybe have them initial that specific clause of the contract so it's brought to their attention... maybe offer an incentive for the return. Heck, give them a magnet with your contact info to keep on their fridge. But some people will still do whatever they want. Then again, maybe this breeder simply didn't want the pup back at 16 weeks. |
| For this particular pup, with no chip or tatoo, it is most likely NOT a reputable breeder anyway, so the pup is better off with the shelter finding her a home.... I just found it disturbing that they wouldn't make an effort even if she was chipped or tattoed. |
| I didn't know breeders chip or tatoo pups since they will usually be going to other owners addresses. |
| Aren't you a breeder zach? Here in Canada anyway, a pup MUST be chipped or tattooed to be registered with the CKC, how else could it be identified as an individual? That individual ID is included when the pup is registered to the new owner, but also identifies the breeder. |
| Apparently the akc states on their site that they only "recommend common sense practices...." but apparently do not require it. Interesting...
http://www.akc.org/reg/registeralitter.cfm |
| Heh, that goes with "How do you know whio is REALLY the sire (or even the bitch, for that matter)."
An unscrupulous or malicious breeder could really muck things up for everyone for many generations. |
| I guess puppy mills would need to if they would produce that many litters at one time that they would get the pups confused. I don't know of anyone who produces that many pups or who does it. |
Ron wrote: Heh, that goes with "How do you know whio is REALLY the sire (or even the bitch, for that matter)."
An unscrupulous or malicious breeder could really muck things up for everyone for many generations. Yes they most certainly could.... DNA testing can be helpful I guess, however, if you weren't able to contact the owner of the sire or get them to submit the dogs' dna then what? Hmmmm... never thought of that. I guess that just makes it even more important to really get to know and trust who you work with if you are a breeder. |
| It's not about getting a pup confused, it's about making sure that dog is permanently identified so that if it gets lost, or found, or ends up in a shelter (which it shouldn't anyway if they follow the contract and return it to the breeder) it can be quickly returned to the owner or breeder. The tattoo or chip has information that identifies the year it was born, the parents, the breeder and the owner.
I don't know any breeders that DON'T do it, whether they have one, two or three litters in a year is irrelevant, Canadian or American.... so that is a bit of a shock to me to hear. Edit~ Just asked someone, who says not all reputable breeders in the states do tattoo or chip.... it's up to the individual.... and I do understand the point of very careful screening to be sure the pup goes to a good home, but even good owners sometimes have a dog go missing... so I'm very surprised to learn this! LOL Zach, do you think that is something that would benefit oes and their owners and breeders for the AKC to implement? |
| Yep, I believe in chipping and most of mine are even thou they only give a marginal amout of security at best. Heck, the vet who placed a chip with one of my dogs recently couldn't detect it. I had to go to another vet just for confirmation that it was not defective. I just don't see the need for it with puppies that are going to other homes. One could require that it be done by the new owners within a contract in the sale of a puppy but I believe that it is the new owner's responsibilty to protect their pet. Maybe I'll feel differently if and when I run into a problem where it's use could have been helpful but I don't see that happening.
AKC doesn't suggest having it done except in multiple litter kennels. They are only concerned with proper and correct AKC registration and not with the security of a dog. I don't see them requiring it with every litter and they don't suggest anywhere that they will any time soon. AKC puppies only have a litter registration number until owners send in for their puppy's indiviual AKC registration number. Yes at that point it would be a very good idea to have some type of permanent identifier like a chip. Also, your point about not really being able to know who a dog really is without a permanent identifier has alot of merrit and the corruption in any AKC breed registration, show titles, etc and pedigree has real possibilities and is probably very likely for the reasons you stated. But with that said, It doesn't really matter to me if someone does or doesn't chip puppies that they will be selling. Either they are ethical or they aren't. I just don't understand how one breeder can be judged so quickly and harshly by you because they don't since here in the states so very few do. I personally don't know of any that do and I know quite a few. I guess my point is that if the breeder wasn't contacted, how could they help in any way or even be aware of what's going on. The problem could be the fault of the owner and not the breeder. With what's been said one can't possibly know. But more important, how can you possibly make the statement, judgement and opinion of what type of breeder they are based on the CKC regulations or your opinion? Your statement about the quality of the breeder screems out to a lot of folks down here that I'm sure will take offense to your opinion including myself and I don't feel that you had any right in making it. As far as tatoos, I don't have any and I doubt that any of my dogs will ever have them either. That's just my personal preference. I guess I would be curious to see just how many folks received their OES puppy from a US breeder with a chip or tatoo here in the states. |
| If my opinion offended, I apologize, as I said, I honestly was not aware that it was not required in the states, which is why I looked into it further. I was just shocked, because in Canada, if a Canadian breeder does not chip or tattoo, then they are not registering the pups. (so obviously to ME, that screams unethical) Period. Also, here, the litter registration AND the individual papers are filed by the breeder, because most breeders place a non breeding agreement right on the dogs registration. It has to be signed by the breeder and the new owner. We are not allowed to withhold papers, whether the dog is bought as a pet or show or breeding is regardless. We have 6 months to see that the new owner has the papers in their posession, and it can sometimes take almost that long to get them back from the CKC.
I'm not judging anyone, just stating my opinion on the differences of our two systems. My initial reaction was because I wrongly assumed the states did the same with regards to tattooing and chipping. *shrug* Everyone makes mistakes, and as I said, I looked into it further and found I was wrong. |
| I think it is less common practice for breeders here in the states, but man, that seems like a really good idea to me! If for some reason something happened to Pip, and they couldn't contact me, I'd much rather he found his way to Dora (my breeder) then anybody else!
He's getting his chip in next month B.T.W.!!!  |
| Thanks, I guess I just don't like putting a needle or a knife of any kind into such a young pup risking infection and/or disease at such a young age unless it's an emergency. I prefer to wait until they are older and larger. Plus chips move around and in a growing pup, it can end up anywhere in a short period of time and a tech may not be able to locate it. |
Quote: I just found it disturbing that they wouldn't make an effort even if she was chipped or tattooed.
Believe me... I completely understand your position. All of mine are chipped and I would be outraged if they didn't scan and contact me. But it's just a tool you have to rely on others to use. I can also understand the viewpoint of the shelter on THIS puppy... the "owner" turned the puppy in so they feel no need to scan her. In a perfect world they would contact the breeder of every purebred puppy and dog that came to the shelter. (But is there an age when breeders would no longer WANT one of their dogs returned?  ) There are so many irresponsible people out there that a good portion of the calls would be for nothing. In reality this approach could play out like this...
Pup comes in as an owner surrender. Pup is scanned and found to be microchipped. They contact the chip mfr. and get the breeder info. Maybe the breeder is just down the road but maybe they're way the heck across the country. (The shelter may think maybe the breeder didn't make such a good choice in families when they chose this one.. not THIS particular little girl's family but you know what I mean.) They may then have the expense of long distance calls to notify the breeder they have a pup of theirs. Breeder can't arrange for pickup or it might take several days or weeks to arrange it. In the meantime, shelter has an overflow of dogs they need to get out now! How about flying the pup back at the breeder's expense? Someone from the shelter still has to take time away from the shelter's other pets to get an approved crate, take the pup to the airport which could be miles away in order to get a direct flight with no stop-overs... hours of waiting... flights may be canceled because of too low/too high temps and then has to be rescheduled. You also need a health certificate in order to fly... what if the pup is sick? ALL of my sheepies came from Texas or New Jersey (I'm in Michigan) AND they all flew in so maybe this is why I see a problem. We are so focused on OES but there are so many OTHER just as deserving breeds of dogs too. Most shelters won't go through all these hoops... they don't have the time or people to do it. I think this shelter understands that it's much easier and a lot quicker to place this pup themselves since the owner relinquished her (they were in the military and had to ship out to serve US). The quicker she's placed the less chance she has of ending up sick. Again, I do understand your point of view though as a responsible breeder. |
| I totally understand the shelters point too.... I guess it's just a bit of an eye opener for me.
Naive I suppose... |
Willowsprite wrote: I totally understand the shelters point too.... I guess it's just a bit of an eye opener for me.
Naive I suppose... not naive..hopeful, optimistic, a good person, super caring about animals...etc.  |
Hey, I can't imagine being a breeder and having to place them. I'd wonder if the people who purchased were truly prepared for the extra work a sheepie requires to keep them happy and healthy and if they would treat him/her as family. Then too I'd want to keep them all.  Two of mine came from a litter of 9 or 10 so this is definitely another good reason we've spayed all our poochie-girls! 
Lilly is no longer listed... looks like she found her home!  |
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