Heart murmur in 8 week old OES
Thanks so much! |
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| Permission to cross post this has been given by the author. This was posted originally on OES-L.
From: D. R. Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 12:20 AM Subject: Re: 8 week puppy with heart murmur IMO common sense is the best way to approach the heart murmur problem. I wouldn't consider any puppy without a health guarantee that covers more than 48 hours. I am not sure how that helps as I could never give up a dog once they become part of my household. What is the most you could hope for? Refund of the purchase price. Heartbreak is a much bigger price to pay. I seek health guarantees because it says something about the breeder. My advice in any case is to have a trusted vet evaluate the problem. Only a DVM could give a medical summary of problems that may present and how they may be treated. Sometimes a murmur is nothing, sometimes it can signal a huge problem, even in people. It also seems prudent to wait until the pup is 12 weeks old before separation from Mom. Don't most of you who breed hold on to the puppies for 12 weeks? These are just signs to me to really examine the breeders reputation and health of the puppies that have been produced. |
| Permission to cross post this has been given by the author. This was posted originally on OES-L.
There was a female oes puppy in a pet store around New Year's with a heart murmur... level 3, and the guy said, "oh it's no big deal...she's a thousand dollars....besides, we have a one year "health guarantee"... I played Mickey The Dunce and asked him more "questions"... "Oh," I said, "so if she needs surgery you will pay for it?" Heavens no, he said, just if it dies you can get another one...... Oh there's a special place in hell for them.... He "reassured" me that a level 4 heart murmur would be returned to the breeder...so I asked (stupid like Columbo), "and what will they do? Put it down?" "Oh, they just 'find homes' somewhere".... Well, I was not in good shape leaving that poor baby there.... They said she was "12" weeks, but it looked to me like she was around 8... still routing to nurse.... AND wasn't it just so convenient that she turned "12 weeks" the week of Christmas...yeah right.... I cried alot that nite... Maybe there should just be "Rescue Mafia"....LOL.... Hey you... It's ME.... da "DOGFATHER".... hand over da pup and no one gets hurt.... Nice 'n slow, see.... |
| Hi,
In a puppy which I bred, the vet picked up a heart murmur when he went for his shots at 6 weeks. From birth he had been the second largest pup and had maintained that right through. The vets advice at the time was that, in his case it appeared to be mild (and to be aware of it) and that if it were a major condition it would have already started to effect his weight and growth at that point. In his case, the vet felt that it may well resolve itself and not effect him. I was honest with his prospective family and their beautiful 21 daughter had been born with a heart murmur so they were very matter of fact about it, they felt that, that was what made them single him out. The pup now is nearly three, has been desexed (which is what the family intended to do anyway) and leads a very normal life. I have had contact with 2 other OES who have been diagnosed with a heart murmur in later years of their lives and both again led very normal, active lives. (One died recently at 13+ of other unrelated conditions). I guess what I am saying is find out as much as possible from the breeder, ie do any other dogs in their line have it, when was it dianosed and what has the vet said. Try to talk to the vet yourself and also perhaps seek the advise of your own vet. The problem is once you adopt the puppy it is very hard to give it up. Hope all this helps Evelyn |
Suzanne, What did you decide to do?  |
| I found this article on heart murmurs that might be of interest.
http://www.vetinfo.com/dmurmur.html Good luck to you. |
| Our 18-month old F sheepie just had a Patent Ductus Arteriousus (PDA) corrected through open heart surgery about 3 weeks ago. We were told when we got her that this was a "murmur" that would likely require corrective surgery. To be fair, the breeder was completely honest and open about this: we even got her at a serious discount. I just had absolutely no idea how emotionally torn I was going to be later.
When she was about 6 mos old, we took her to (an idiot) vet (since fired) who said the murmur had just "gone away". We came to find out about 3 mos ago that this wasn't the case at all, and that she hadn't long to live unless she had the surgery. By that time, it was far too late: our Sheepie was a valued and greatly beloved member of our family. Her breathing was becoming more labored and her heart rate was getting even faster than it ever had been. We opted to have the PDA surgically corrected. There are no guarantees about the success of this surgery until it happens. We decided that we'd go with it, and if her PDA wasn't corrected, we'd just keep her comfortable and well-loved until she left us. It cost a couple thousand bucks, but it was well worth it. 3 weeks after the surgery, she's up, around, and doing too much of what a Sheepie her age should be doing ... running around! Sure, the surgery cost a lot of money; but I wouldn't trade my Sheepie for the world. She's gotta be the most beautiful, even-tempered dog I've ever had. It's even sweeter knowing that she's been reclaimed from an almost certain death. 
Emotionally, I won't recommend this to too many people. Before you fall in love with a puppy with a "heart murmur", be sure you're willing to go all the way. That "murmur" could be a code word for something much, much worse. |
| does anyone have any advice for acepting a pup 8 weeks with a heat murmur rated 4-5??? |
| I had a dog with this not oes died peacefully in her sleep at 3 years old. |
boom wrote: does anyone have any advice for acepting a pup 8 weeks with a heat murmur rated 4-5???
I just helped place a "freebie" that a very good breeder needed a good home for, and her murmur at 12 weeks was a 2/3. 
Take her in, pay nothing for her, and love her for the length of time that she has. Could be years, could be weeks. |
| yup I agree, luv them every minute |
| I agree with Nicole... pay nothing and try to stuff all the life, love and happiness you can into whatever time you're given together.
The thing to remember is that this pup is going to endure this same condition no matter if he/she is with you or someone else. So it's really a matter of whether you're strong enough to love a pup despite a possibly uncertain future. I don't have any experience with heart murmurs but I do have some with a pup that was given a bleak prognosis... Quote: This will probably be my final update on Hope (the little sheepie in Texas). There is a strong possibility that she has liver shunts and she has a rapid heart rate at rest. She now weighs just over 4 pounds... the specialist thought with the amount of hand feeding that she should have weighed more by 6 weeks. What appeared to be blindness in her right eye is the third eye lid covering it and there is no pupil in the left eye. The vet feels she may have 6 weeks with a 10% chance of survival.
After my husband spoke with the specialist, we considered NOT adopting her. We agonized over the decision. We wondered if it would be fair to take her from her mother and the only home she had known if she was only going to live a matter of weeks. We finally decided we could miss out on her entire life or take whatever time we were allowed to share together. As it turned out, there were no liver shunts... she's now 3. One last thing- we can all share our own experiences... doctors can share their best guesses based on previous cases within their practices and in text books... but we still will never know for certain how a condition will play out. Wishing you peace and happiness in whatever you choose to do~ |
boom wrote: does anyone have any advice for acepting a pup 8 weeks with a heat murmur rated 4-5???
I took in a puppy with a level 4 heart murmur. He is a Chihuahua and had his first birthday on November 1st. He is now almost a grade 5 but has yet to show any symtoms of the disease. The vet says I must be doing something right. Rudy came from a puppy mill in Ohio. We paid the rescue group $25.00. The vet gets nearly $40.00 a month for the insurance to cover the regular vet visits as well as the X-rays that he needs once or twice a year as well as the EKG. He is worth every penny. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Go for it! |
| I don't know what to tell you. Both our sheepies developed heart murmurs later in life (brothers). One passed away at ten (not at all related to his heart). We did deal with congestive heart failure a few years before he left us, but it was easily controlled with meds.
Our eleven year old has a level 3 murmur now, and we monitor it carefully, but at this point it's having no effect on his overall health (he does have other issues). Our vet has only prescribed as much exercise as he can comfortably take. He takes as much as we'll let him. I don't know what to say to you...except good luck in whatever you decide. |
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