Sleepymom's pup problem
Baily is a very sweet dog and the vet sees no problems with her at this point in time. The post concerning the hip problems is of concern since we specifically asked about the hip issue and were assured that the mom and dad (and that she owned the grandparents too) were all Ok and certified. We had just lost our Zoe to Lymphoma in October and I knew it was soon to get another, but she is our fifth and we just love them. I guess all I can do is keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best. I love her no matter what. |
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oes2mom I too got Drake from the same breeder and litter and was nervouse after reading sleepymoms post but I did not have the same experiences that she had. When we got Drake he was and is a very healthy well taken care of pup. Drake has shown no signs of aggresion (except for ordinary puppy stuff, like playing to ruff) or food aggression, and has and is maintaining a healthy weight all from which I understand show sign of being at a puppy mill of which I know this breeder has been accused of with little evidence of it being true. I have seen a post but no longer can find it from someone else that had a very positive experience with her also. I have met with her and saw a few other pups and they also look very healthy and well taken care of. I did several types of search with the state and contacted puppy mill.com and the bbb and came to the conclusion with the information I obtained that I was willing to take the chance with Drake. The hips do trouble me also because I to got no concret confirmation that the parents were certified but again that is a chance I decided to take. Drake is a very happy healthy well adjusted pup and it did not take much time at all for Drake to adjust to our family. From what I can tell by they way he acted when we got him he was very well taken care of. If it makes you feel any better take a look at the rest of sleepymoms post and see what happened with the puppy she ended up with from a so called " good rebutable breeder". I am sorry that may be mean and I could go on about it but I will not this whole thing has got me a little upset and I think our breeder may have gotten a bum rap. Maybe I did take a chance but from what I figure anytime you love something or someone you always take a chance.  |
| I found the post I was talking about and it is an amazing post! The post is in Brags by jtison called Introducing Pippy
Edit: Here is that post http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=597 [-Ron.] |
| Thank you for the information and link to Pippy's story and your personal experience. I feel better now. You are right, you get no gaurantees when you love something and we love our sheepies. Baily is a very sweet pup, growing well and causing trouble, just like they are supposed to! It's nice to know that one of here litter mates is on the web. Maybe we can compare note. Is Drake the pup called Amos or Ahab? |
| First thanks Ron for the edit!
Drake is Ahab and Amos is the puppy that Sleepymom was to get and I was told found a family soon after we got our pups. I have posted a link to Dogster.com in pictures so you can see Drake http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=684 and have posted a sheepie servey about Drake at http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=554  I hope I did that right so Ron does not have to edit me again
I would love to hear about Drakes sister and look forward to seeing pictures. I did see the puppy with the all white head and they named her Daisey. I am glad I could help |
| I think one of the issues that was concerning about this breeder was that they sell several different breeds of dogs and there were many other "red flags" that would indicate that this was a Commercial Breeder and/or Puppy mill. In addition, several people had reported having behavior and/or health problems with the puppies they had gotten from them. Now, whether or not that is true - I have no idea! I am in no position to make that judgement.
You are right - there are no guarantees with any puppy you get - even if they are from a "reputable breeder". But purchasing from a breeder affiliated with the breed club (i.e. OESCA) ensures that the breeders are following a code of ethics (which include typical health screenings and testing requirements). These tests don't eliminate all health problems - but they do decrease the chances drastically (hip dysplasia, genetic defects, deafness, aggression, etc.). Behavior problems are a huge concern with OES - and I've heard about more aggressive OES puppies within the last few weeks than I've heard about in years! This, in my opinion, is directly related to poor breeding practices. How many of these people that report having problems with young puppies have received help and/or advice from their breeders?? Breeders should be involved for the life of the puppy - and should be concerned about the temperments of the puppies they are producing. I've asked several of the people with aggressive pups - and most of them have said their breeder was no help. Most of them were from commercial breeders, byb, and/or puppy mills. I also bought a puppy from a commercial breeder/puppy mill - and wouldn't ever criticize anyone else who did (or think any less of their puppy) - but - I'll never do it again! I have met so many others since who bought OES from the same breeder and they have had serious health/behavior problems - I will never take the chance again! Many of these dogs end up in rescue, shelters and/or euthanized - because of health and/or behavioral problems that could have been avoided by following ethical breeding practices. 
JMHO! Kristen (keeping my fingers crossed that all of my dogs remain healthy and live long happy lives - regardless of what breeder they are from!) |
| I am going to leave this alone and not make a big deal about this matter. My point to oes1mom was that she was not alone in this situation and wanted to share my experiences with her, which were positive. I will say I agree with the primises of you post but disagree with parts of your post also. Part of the reason for me dropping this is that I have seen what such dissagrements have done to the OES-L list and would hate for the same thing to happen here. I have had no real major problems with Drake and I feel most posters do not have real mojor problems with their pups but a forum like this gives a place to vent and enjoy our OES and others from around the world and I would hate to ruin that. Love to you all |
| Everyone is entitled to their opinion(s).
There are good puppies and not so good puppies. There are good breeders and not so good breeders. There are good breeders with good puppies, bad breeders with bad puppies, bad breeders with good puppies and good breeders with bad puppies. (Did I just write that sentence?  )
We live a world of interpersonal relationships. Sometimes it can be hard for both people (breeder/buyer) involved in a business relationship to develop a personal respect for one another. I know that discussions like these will come along in this forum, especially as membership grows. People are passionate about their pets, and with their beliefs. I hope for one thing: Everyone here will treat everyone else with respect, and understand that nobody intends a personal insult when they are voicing their personal opinions. This medium is difficult to convey meaning: We lack visual cues and tone of voice to help us understand what the author means. I ask everyone to read each post from that perspective: Assume the poster meant no insult. This thread has so far been a great example of how we can disagree without being disagreeable. Congrats to all. |
Ron well said  This is why I love this place so much, you have done a great job |
Quote: There are good breeders with good puppies, bad breeders with bad puppies, bad breeders with good puppies and good breeders with bad puppies. (Did I just write that sentence? )
Ron, I tried to do the quote thing for the first time, I am not sure it worked, but anyway after that sentence I think your screen name should be changed to Dogter Seuss.
Stormi and co. |
| I second, third, and fourth all that you said Ron aka (Dogter Seuss).
That sentence was a good one. I have that happen to me once in awhile too
Stormi & Co. that new name definitely suits him! Good one 
I think you got him for that one yesterday he and Aging pulled on us all! 
But to be serious, good commentary on our favorite place to hang out. I know I am putting all my new found info in my memory bank for future use. I think, I'll be an even better mom, next time with all this new found knowledge and friends. |
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