Fence or no Fence
Have a new puppy. My yard is not fenced. I taught yard boundries easily to my last dog but when he was a pup we were living in a yard that was fenced so he was already an adult when taught. I'm not sure how to teach my new pup as I can't teach him like I did my last dog because he is in that phase where he is "testing" me with what he can get away with even as I am always standing right next to him. I am faced with basically working with a collar and one of those leads that goes really far so he can feel like he's free when he runs but I will feel safe knowing that he's not going to run into the street. I really don't want to put a physical fence up in my yard but maybe that is inevitable. I guess my question is how people feel about fences. I am thinking also about an invisible fence and was wondering how you guys feel about them also. I don't have a huge yard so I'm worried that the invisible fence will constrict the yard even more. |
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| Dogs tend to test and retest us much like our children. Since I have both children and a big clown of an OES I believe in at least a partially fenced yard so there is at least some place the can run a play free of worry or harrasment.
Most dogs never mature much more than a 2 or 3 year old. You cannot depend on a 3 year old child to remember to stay out of the street and out of neighbors houses and yards, and you can bet just how dependable a dog is going to be. With the increases in population in this world we have to think not only of the safety of our pets and children, but also the good will of our neighbors. Do work with you dog. Do lead train him. Don't rely on the invisible fence ... I have seen it fail to dissuade a single minded dog when it spotted a cat across the street. On the other hand I have heard great things about them on the OES list. I thought about it myself, but decided for that much effort I could install a sprinkler system ... so I did and haven't regretted the choice. (You have to train the dog about the invisible fence or they just think its the same as a pile of red ants around the yard ... a type of painful encounter to be endured and ignored when possible.) I have found that after I walk Abbi a mile or two and sit with her out front, she will just lay at my side most times. But it took 5 years and I still don't completely trust her ... we walk on leash during the early afternoons with low traffic and no neighbors home much. Then sit out front and I read or groom her when I have time. |
| We're doing some major construction on our house in the next 6 months which is going to change the landscape of our property so I will defintely be incorporating a fence. Unfortunately the pup will be lead trained until then.
Thanks for your response. |
| About invisable fence I have one I did get the one that isTHE INVISABLE FENCE There are many other out but to me this was the safest.My dogs have been on it for almost three years and so far it has been great the only down side is that other dogs can enter your yard and fight with your dogs.Its one other draw back is that unsuspecting people can come on your property and be bitten by territorial dogs.(so you have to post those ugly be ware of dog signs)All in all I think you should resurch what type of fence you want and know your dog.Good Luck . Ps also try taking your dog to an off leash dog park they are great for people who arn't able to fence. |
| After much discussion with our dog trainer, veterinarian, and our local animal control officer, we decided to get a physical fence. Among the reasons we decided on this were that we live in a wooded area that is also home to coyotes, racoons, skunks and various and sundry other wildlife. The fence gives our dogs a safe place to play - and we don't have to worry about the local wildlife visiting or our dogs going off and playing with them (although a deer did jump in the fenced in area once ). With the physical fence we don't have to worry about kids & other dogs coming in the yard and playing with (or harassing) our dogs. In addition, when people are walking by, they see the fence and the dogs behind the fence and are not worried that the dogs will come bounding out and "attack" them.
An "invisible fence" should stop the dog from bounding out and greeting people who are walking by, however, in the past year, I have had three dogs visit us who were supposedly safely contained within an "invisible fence". I have also had one dog dash through the invisible fence and lunge at us as we were walking by. Granted, these dogs were probably not properly trained with the fence however, it did cause their owners some concern. We set up a chain link fence so the dogs could see out easily. It also has two gates so that we can go in and mow whatever grass is left in the summer. |
I am so happy for you and think you have made a very good decision.I think having a fenced yard will make your life and your pets so much easier.  |
| I just wanted to weigh in on this older chat. For purposes of full disclosure, I have been in the business for more than 12 years. I was a labrador breeder and field trial trainer before I began working in the custom pet containment market.
The first objection I had to the product was that it did not prevent other dogs from entering the yard. After training between 1000 to 1500 dogs every year for the past decade, I have found this to be a non issue. I know of two cases in that period of a dog attack- making it statistically insignificant (however very disconcerting to us nontheless). The reality is wandering dogs usually are very shy and easily spooked. Try making a noise - they invariably run. The reason is that dogs respect the fact that other dogs own the turf they also realize that even small dogs will fight hard to protect their turf. I am not an expert on Coyote or racoon behavior, but I would be surprised if it is much different. The dogs that would attack others are rare, and usually not in our neighborhoods - usually in a less safe part of town. Similar to a crazed human climbing a tower to shoot at people, It could happen but I do not live in fear of towers. Also be very careful about who you are doing business with. There is only one INVISIBLE FENCE BRAND. Other companies leave questions as charlatans come and go in this business as with any, and even though some are very nice people their products are not nearly as consistent or safe. They may have kind hearts and good intentions, but most of the industry problems come from self installs, or knock off brands who purport to offer the "same as Invisible Fence Brand only cheaper." Truth is, it's usually not significantly cheaper, and even if it was half the price - if it doesn't work its not worth a dime. How much are you willing to pay for a headache? Invisible Fence has a vested interest in preserving their reputation as the most valued Iconic brand in its industry (like Band-Aid, Q-Tip, and Kleenex are to their industries.) They make sure their dealers know their stuff. Dogs escape from chain link, and privacy fences with very high regularity, they are not guarranteed like Invisible Fence Brand is. My best advice to anyone is to call The local Invisible Fence Brand dealer, or search them at www.InvisibleFence.com . Obtain a free appointment, and raise your objections. If they don't instill confidence, move on. If they do, buy it. Do not expertiment with other products that may or may not work. 4 out of 5 veterinarians recommend Invisible Fence Brand by name. They do not want to lose their patients, and have no other stake in it, just preserving the life of their patients. Good luck to you. Virginia Dealer |
wonder what this guest is selling  |
Guest wrote: I just wanted to weigh in on this older chat. For purposes of full disclosure, I have been in the business for more than 12 years. I was a labrador breeder and field trial trainer before I began working in the custom pet containment market.
The first objection I had to the product was that it did not prevent other dogs from entering the yard. After training between 1000 to 1500 dogs every year for the past decade, I have found this to be a non issue. I know of two cases in that period of a dog attack- making it statistically insignificant (however very disconcerting to us nontheless). The reality is wandering dogs usually are very shy and easily spooked. I whole heartedly disagree. I live in a quiet neighborhood where above ground fences are not allowed. I therefore have an invisible fence and it does keep my dogs in. It does not keep out the wandering neighbor dogs which may not attack my dogs but may spread disease and get my dogs worked up. I also have an intact bitch and therefore have to be duly diligent when she is in season. I would not however, trade my fence for anything - it was well worth the money I spent having it put in and training was a breeze. Wandering dogs are still a major issue though. |
| Also, although that may work fine for a breed like Labs, put a guardian dog in an Invisible Fence and sit back and wait for the lawsuits to come in. I know of one incident off the top of my head where a Komondor bit people who had wandered into his yard through the invisible fence. The owners were too stupid to learn the first time... or the second time... and on the third time, they put him down for doing his job. Some dogs are bred to guard and it's what they will do. It's an important thing to think about when choosing a dog in the first place, especially if you know you can't have a physical fence. |
| We thought through the fence options for months, and the deciding factor was we did not want to shock Chauncey ( which we didn't ) but, we have dog aggessive dogs in our neighborhood. The fence in the back yard ( almost 2/3 acre has been a godsend ).
With our lab, Jake ( now over the bridge ) he new the boundry lines as well as we did. You could let him out and he'd never leave the property with out a leash. Yes we tried to train Chauncey the same way......I guess it is just the difference in breeds. I could walk Jake through the neighborhood or on the canal without a lead, Chauncey I can't trust in the yard without a leash. But they are 2 different breeds, each equally loved....just one a little more strong willed and stuborn than the other ( kinda like me )  |
| Our own vets office had this name brand system with the signs posted on the properly advertising it. The cat (yes, cat) eventually started escaping. The last time when he was found under a client's car, the receptionist took it upon herself to take him home to live permanently.
I just can't bring myself to trust them... because of this and the fact that two neighbors had invisible fencing and their dogs kept getting out. It's not nice to be challenged while on a walk or in your own yard... plus the risk of death if they escape (from any type of secured area). Remember the person who posted about an invisible fence that kept shocking their dog while in the house? http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=11114 I wonder how that turned out... Just my experiences with others that have had them... I imagine it's like many things, the diligence of those actually using the device. |
| Invisible fence may or may not work. It's up to the dog's drive and the situation. A friend of mine with a lab only had to use the fence once and never again. He would never leave the yard for any reason, not even for another animal.
I also have another friend with a lab, who doesn't care to be shocked when there is a squirrel or a cat in the yard. He has to chase it! Though coming back, he thinks twice before he enters his own yard! So, when he is so focused on the cat or other animal he is chasing, being shocked doesn't really matter but when he is coming home, being shocked does matter. I can't wait to be able to let the boys out in our 6 foot fenced yard!!! 
Jill! It's sad to hear what they do to Komondors (and Kuvasz) where people don't seem to realize they are guardian dogs. I remember learning about them in school (in Hungary) to "NEVER APPROACH THEM!" |
| Personally I would never again be withOUT a physical fence. When we first got Tucker we were living in a PMQ (military house) with no fence and always had him tied up, but I was always very nervous. I usually sat out there with him or checked on him every 2-3 minutes. I feel much more at east now that we have moved - a huge yard all fenced in, I can let him out without concern that he will get out or another animal will get in. Of course I still check on him every 5-10 minutes, but I feel a lot safer now.
Call me a skeptic, but there are too many accidents/problems with the invisible fences, I just don't trust them! |
| It all depends on the dogs and the training devoted whether a Invisible fence is for you or not. It works great with all 3 of our dogs but we seldom leave them outside alone. Just like everything else, you need to use common sense. We are not allowed to have a physical fence in our yard either.
It's such a dumb theory that this salesperson is saying not to worry about other dogs coming in your yard. I opened our front door last week to a boxer laying on our door mat on our porch. Luckily the dog had tags and I called the owner to retrieve him. When the owner showed up, he said he had an invisible fence system and his dog got out of it. The dog did not even have the invisible fence collar on. Duh! Need to keep the collar on, or the dogs will try to inch towards the boundaries. And there have been other threads on this board about the IF. I wonder why the salesperson did not comment on those... |
| I am the first to admit, I thought the Invisible Fence was cruel, but after we got Maisey, it seemed more cruel to tie her up, as she would get tangled in the lead.( We were moving and could not afford to build fences at both houses.)
We talked to our trainer and did a lot of research and decided to get one. I am happy to say that it works well for her. But we followed the training instructions verbatim and made sure that she understood the bounderies. On the other hand, My sister loved the idea and tried it on her Jack Russel, who was quite a bit more stubborn, and it never worked. They got the Jack a physical fence and one day right before Christmas, when my sister let him out, he dug under the fence and is no longer with us. He was only out a matter of minutes. I don`t think that the wireless fence is for everyone, and don`t think that it is a replacement for looking after your pet, but in conjunction with being vigilant, I believe it can be a good investment. I still love the idea of a physical fence though, and can't wait 'till spring when we can put one at the new house... |
| Here is my thoughts and experience on the invisible fence. It works with short haired dogs. A friend of mine had it installed. He got the longest pins available and his lab/poddle mix stood on the line with a look of like what? Did not even notice. Well I had to try so we put the collar on Obe to see how he reacted and the same, Nothing. Neither of us shave or cut our dogs so they are both in full coat all year. They both stood right on the line/walked back in forth and never felt a thing. I also have several friends who have it and it works great with their dogs but not ours. Yes the fence was working during this training. He ended putting up a physical fence. Which I think he likes better. |
shon wrote: Here is my thoughts and experience on the invisible fence. It works with short haired dogs. A friend of mine had it installed. He got the longest pins available and his lab/poddle mix stood on the line with a look of like what? Did not even notice. Well I had to try so we put the collar on Obe to see how he reacted and the same, Nothing. Neither of us shave or cut our dogs so they are both in full coat all year. They both stood right on the line/walked back in forth and never felt a thing. I also have several friends who have it and it works great with their dogs but not ours. Yes the fence was working during this training. He ended putting up a physical fence. Which I think he likes better.
If you are referring to the collar not giving the dog a correction then it was not positioned on the neck properly. It works great on long coated dogs. Regarding training, you don't just put the collar on the dog and expect them to know not to go past their boundaries. With the Invisible Fence Brand, there are weeks of training involved leading up to the time when you dare to let your pet try and cross the fence. Everything is outlined on their web site. |
VerveUp wrote: shon wrote: Here is my thoughts and experience on the invisible fence. It works with short haired dogs. A friend of mine had it installed. He got the longest pins available and his lab/poddle mix stood on the line with a look of like what? Did not even notice. Well I had to try so we put the collar on Obe to see how he reacted and the same, Nothing. Neither of us shave or cut our dogs so they are both in full coat all year. They both stood right on the line/walked back in forth and never felt a thing. I also have several friends who have it and it works great with their dogs but not ours. Yes the fence was working during this training. He ended putting up a physical fence. Which I think he likes better. If you are referring to the collar not giving the dog a correction then it was not positioned on the neck properly. It works great on long coated dogs. Regarding training, you don't just put the collar on the dog and expect them to know not to go past their boundaries. With the Invisible Fence Brand, there are weeks of training involved leading up to the time when you dare to let your pet try and cross the fence. Everything is outlined on their web site. Sorry shon, but couldn't agree more with VerveUp! |
| Years ago I had an invisible fence and a Siberian Husky. It worked great for about a year and then the dog learned that if he ran VERY fast he could get through without getting shocked. Getting back in the yard was a whole other story. He would stand in the neighbors yard and bark until we came to get him and take the collar off. For the last 15yrs and three dogs I have a physical fence and hope to never be without one again. |
Simon's Mom wrote: Years ago I had an invisible fence and a Siberian Husky. It worked great for about a year and then the dog learned that if he ran VERY fast he could get through without getting shocked. .
The Canine Fence people came out to our house to meet our dogs before they even would give us a quote, because certain breeds of dogs they will not do a IF installation. One of which is a Husky... I'm glad your dog never got hit by a car. A friend of ours' has a Husky and it was always getting out of their house by one of the kids opening the door and she would just run. The only way they could get her to come back home was driving around the neighborhood with a piece of baloney hanging out of the window. |
| Both my wife and our dog were attacked by the same dog on different occassions by the same German Shepherd. This dog was supposed to be restarined by an invisible fence. Obviously, it didn't work on at least on at least 2 occassions. Does anyone know of any local ordinances or laws restricting or prohibiting the use of invisible fences? |
| Not that I know of -- but you do have the right not to be molested by unrestrained dogs. Check with your local police department to see if there is a local "leash law." A leash law is generally not a requirement that a dog actually be on a leash, but is usually a requirement that dogs be under their owner/guardian's direct control and/or containment. In other words, they can't be out and about on their own whether or not they are attacking you. The "good try" at containment usually isn't a defense. If they are attacking you, the consequences for the dog (and the owners) can be quite severe. |
| I wouldn't wait for government action, I'd go after the owners directly and indirectly the powers that be. Larger, stronger, animals can blow through invisible fences. When I was doing Great Pyr rescue we absolutely refused to place if the invisible fence was the only exclusion device. Even an animal that respects the fence on normal patrol can blow through one when motivated. |
| When we first had Bailee we were looking for a Trainer. One of the potential Trainers we checked out was an Ex-Police K-9 Officer who utilized the electric shock collar in training. They put a collar on all the dogs that were there for a look-see to set the level for the shock to be effective and when it came to Bailee who was only 3 months old at the time they had to set the sensitivity on the collar (point at which it triggered) to the highest level they ever used. That in itself was enough to get me out of there in a heartbeat. Just the idea of "shocking" my dog to obey was not not ever going to be an option. |
When we first moved to the country I had about 1/4 acre at the back of the house fenced with chain link , every time I wanted to go out to the front of the house I could only take Dutch if I had her on a leash or line which was a big pain for both of us so I had Invisible Fencing install in front. I was worried about the shock she would receive when she tried to go past but it only took once and she has never tried again in about 1 1/2 years. Dutch has been terrific with it , she will stand as far as she can go up either ends of the driveway and watch people,kids, dogs and cars go by and she doesn't even bark at them.  . I do make sure that I always have fresh batteries and she is never allowed outfront without me and I still have the back to shove her out when I want a little space and not worry about any other animal invading her territory |
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