smacking our puppy and aggression
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| Don't worry, one week will not ruin your dog.
Start in with a more positive approach and never hit your dog, even if you chose a less than 100% positive method for correction. I suggest you register; lots of people will have suggestions for you; you don't want to miss them! |
| lucyd, please join the forum, you will get lots of good informatiom to help you with your new pup |
| I had a book I bought ten ears ago with our first puppy called "Mother Knows Best". It taught us to correct the puppy like a mother dog by gently taking it by the neck and giving it a quick firm shake or gently knocking him to the ground and attempting to calm your puppy like its doggie mother. I am probably not doing a good job explaining this but it was correcting with a firm no but not hitting. Good luck. If you are interested I can find the book and get the author. |
| I would suggest a book by Ian Dunbar, called When you Get Your Puppy. He is one of the most well-known postive reinsforcement trainers.
I also would not use any type of force with a puppy. You want the pup to associate hands with pats, and food. Nothing rough. And how fair is it to correct a puppy that is not trained, yet, and has no idea what to do? That is like smacking a 4 year old for not knowing how to read and write. Unbeliveable. I don't really believe the old "treat the pup like his mom would" routine. I've raised 3 litters of pups and have never seen their mom grab any by the scruff of the neck. Once I saw mom gently place her paw down onto a puppy that was annoying her, but that was the extent of it. If your puppy is doing something you don't want him to do then it is up to you to find something you DO wnat him to do, and teach him the alternate behavior. But you do not want to go scaring or hurting him. He is a baby, and the expereinces of these first few weeks will have an impact on him for life. Be gentle and calm when handling him and he will do just fine. |
| I quickly learned with Daisy that positve training was the only thing that would work. Every other pup I had raised would respond to a smack on the nose or a verbal reprimand, but with Daisy it made things worse.
I did yelp OUCH when she would nip and that worked, but with everything else, it was (still is) that she would only respond when I rewarded her - usually with YES or GOOD GIRL (she's not food oriented and has very few dog treats that she will eat). Anything negative and the first thing she does is to run and hide, but she'll repeat it again the next chance she gets. It's been a little difficult this week as she while she is getting used to being left alone (with the cat) all day since I just started work. Today I came home to find she had torn apart a new scratch toy I had gotten for mork. Stuffing everywhere!!! Other than to remove the toy I don't have any idea how to keep her from doing it again. She knew I wasn't happy and I didn't take her out for her walk until I had cleaned it up (hid upstairs while I did but came when I called her to go out). Oh well, it will get better. |
| Every time he's biting try sticking a toy in his mouth too so he will know that he should only be biting those things. |
| Hi Lucy,
Welcome to the forum and congrats on your new pup. I'm a bit suprised your breeder offered this suggestion as in the long run it will be teaching your pup to be hand shy and that hands bring negative reinforcement instead of good - like pats on the head. You wouldn't want the pup to crouch down and possible out of fear bite a child if they thought the approaching hand meant negative things. Everytime your pup played too roughly with his siblings, they would yelp if the bite was too hard. Mom would come over and investigate. The pup was learning to inhibite his bite through play. This would continue if the pup was still with his mom and siblings....now it's your turn to teach. Good suggestion from previous poster: When pup bites you (and he is doing it as a form of play and not aggression at this age) you can yelp, then firmly say "no" and immediately place a toy in his mouth. When he does this..lots of praise ..good boy!! It only takes a few times (if you are consistent each time and have the toys readily avialable.) He soon learns, I get praised for toys and not to bite hands. It's not enough to show them what they did wrong but provide an alternative as to what you want them to do ...then lots of praise. Ironically, just the other day on a talk show it showed a female trainer whom came out and barked out directions in Italian. It left everyone wondering what she wanted them to do. She then did the same thing again but placed peoples hands in the positions she wanted them to be while still giving instructions in Italian. Her tone of voice and praise was evident although they still didn't understand the language. It was understood what she wanted. She then spoke English and said she did that demonstration to show how it would appear to a dog to have people speak to them and get mad and they had no idea why. I thought it was a good point made. This forum is very friendly and everyone is encouraged to ask questions. you'll find people will have all sorts of opinions and will try to offer suggestions. Keep asking and people will always try to help. 
Marianne and the boys |
Marianne wrote: When pup bites you (and he is doing it as a form of play and not aggression at this age) you can yelp, then firmly say "no" and immediately place a toy in his mouth. When he does this..lots of praise ..good boy!! It only takes a few times (if you are consistent each time and have the toys readily avialable.) He soon learns, I get praised for toys and not to bite hands. Marianne and the boys I used this tactic with Benjamin and also taught my 3year old to do the same, it works! Ben obviously tried his best to nip and bite (that's what pups do best) but, with consistancy from all of the two legged family memebers, Ben figured it out rather quickly! |
| Welcome to the forum! Hope you find it as informative and rewarding as my family has!
Another trick for nippers is to put a favorite toy in thier mouth when they are everytime they are bitting and they will soon learn to grab a toy rather than bite. It works everytime. They only problem is we had a rescue that was aggressive and there were times when my OES (Lucy) should have bitten her and wouldn't. She would get aggrivated and grab a toy! Good luck with you new pup! |
My trainer used the "puppy yelp" method, this usually works best when really young. When the puppy bites you, yelp like a puppy would. This is how puppies learn when they are with all of their siblings yet. If that isn't working, try crating him/her for a few minutes ( they forget why they are in there after a few minutes so it's pointless to leave them for longer) after quite a few times of being put away for biting he'll realize that if he bites he doesn't get to play anymore. Sorry if I duplicated anyone else's, I didn't read through the other posts before writing mine  (my exclamation key is broken... ) |
lucyd wrote: HELP. The breeder told us to smack our puppy's nose if he bit. He is 10 weeks old. We have had him for one week. Now I am reading that he probably fears us and we have taught him aggression! How do I make him feel secure after a week of nose smackings? i got a 6wk old labrdor and my breeder toald me the same so i always was smacking my pup i still do on a regular basis and am not going to stop i think that a puppie needs to learn if you keep hitting him after about a month you will see a differance i just do it a little different i if my pup is naughty i grab his coller and push him to the ground then give him a hard but only one slap across his nose whilst saying no! my pup is now i month old and i now have just get another pup and i punish her in the same way |
kassie wrote: lucyd wrote: HELP. The breeder told us to smack our puppy's nose if he bit. He is 10 weeks old. We have had him for one week. Now I am reading that he probably fears us and we have taught him aggression! How do I make him feel secure after a week of nose smackings? i got a 6wk old labrdor and my breeder toald me the same so i always was smacking my pup i still do on a regular basis and am not going to stop i think that a puppie needs to learn if you keep hitting him after about a month you will see a differance i just do it a little different i if my pup is naughty i grab his coller and push him to the ground then give him a hard but only one slap across his nose whilst saying no! my pup is now i month old and i now have just get another pup and i punish her in the same way Good Lord... this is a joke, right? Just to get people to post? #1 Don't accept a puppy younger than 8 weeks of age unless it's been orphaned or the mom has proven she's incapable mentally or physically of raising her litter properly (then get the bitch spayed). They've been taken away too soon from mom and littermates. You likely will have problems because the pup never learns proper dog behavior and bite inhibition. #2 There are better ways to train than physically hitting, grabbing, hard slapping, punishing. You've essentially strong armed your dog and made it fear you. With your dog now being a month old (that's 4 weeks), it means the dog has gotten 2 weeks younger than when it arrived.   |
kassie wrote: ... i got a 6wk old labrdor and my breeder toald me the same so i always was smacking my pup i still do on a regular basis and am not going to stop i think that a puppie needs to learn if you keep hitting him after about a month you will see a differance i just do it a little different i if my pup is naughty i grab his coller and push him to the ground then give him a hard but only one slap across his nose whilst saying no! my pup is now i month old and i now have just get another pup and i punish her in the same way I think first and foremost, you're taking an entirely wrong approach... You should be teaching your dog, NOT punishing it. If it does something wrong CORRECT it, not punish. That is totally the wrong mindset. Correcting involves rewards like small treats and praise. How do you respond when someone praises you when you've done something right versus smacking you in the face for doing something wrong? If I did something wrong, I would hope you would correct me by showing me the right way and then reward me when I did it that way the very next time. If you were to punish me for doing something wrong by smacking me in the face you bet your ass I'd bite you... Change your ways and they will follow and quickly. Vance |
| That was put very well Vance. I feel like biting that owner at the moment!!x |
| All puppies bite and chew their owners, even growl, especially when they are playing. This is normal. They are undergoing a natural learning process and it is your job as the owner and ‘acting top dog’ to correct the behaviour and teach them that biting humans is not acceptable. Some owners worry that this means the puppy will grow up to be aggressive and start to impose punishments or strict dominance regimes. Other owners do nothing, assuming the puppy will grow out of it. For puppies it is important to be taught bite inhibition from day one and ideally before 16 weeks. Puppies need to learn while they are young that it is unacceptable for their teeth to meet human skin under any conditions. They may think anger in humans is a way of playing rough, which is why punishment doesn’t work. Never, ever, let anyone play roughhouse with your puppy because it will encourage play biting. Biting. Puppies should always be discouraged from using their teeth on humans, including mouthing and nipping. A dog can hurt people by biting, and a dog that bites a stranger may have to be put down. Prevention is better than a cure. Socialise your puppy with people, and make sure they have no special phobias, e.g. with regard to delivery people. You may get the delivery people to throw titbits to the puppy from a safe distance, so the puppy makes friends with them. Do not let your puppy run free and bark at strangers, or they may get kicked and start biting to defend themselves. Make sure your puppy is supervised when they are outside, or that the garden is secure and locked, so no stranger can enter. Keep the puppy secure e.g. on a lead when strangers are about, if there is any risk of biting. Puppies may try to bite their owners to retain a stolen object. Keep the forbidden object out of their reach. If you need to take something away from your puppy, use soothing words, and try to tempt them away with something more interesting (e.g. a handful of stinky titbits). If your puppy has found the titbits more interesting, talk softly to them, wear thick gloves (owners choice) and take the object away quickly, before the puppy has chance to react. Most important think of your safety first. Don’t force the issue if the object is not that important. Fighting. A lot of fighting occurs at different levels of seriousness, from play fights to serious fights which can result in injury and even death. A lot of people argue that play fights between puppies should not be allowed, since it’s a way that they learn how to fight, while others see play fights as a useful way for puppy to learn how to bite gently and not hurt each other. A lot of this depends on the age, the breed and on the ability to recognise when fights are getting serious. Little puppies don’t usually do each other harm, and can learn how to regulate their bites by the way that their siblings react. If the puppy bites too hard, the sibling yelps and doesn’t want to play any more. This is enough to teach the biter that they have gone to far. Where you need to be careful is when puppies of different sizes get together, and there is the danger of a puppy getting bullied, or learning to be a bully. This can happen with unrelated puppies and puppies of different sizes in cross-breed litters, especially big litters. Always stop play fights if one puppy is unhappy about what is happening, and is trying to run away, rather than coming back for more, or if you just want some peace and quiet. Fights can get more serious as the puppies get older. Some breeds are better able to tussle playfully as adults without getting out of hand, and they tend to be dogs bred to live in packs, such as many hound breeds. Play fights between siblings, or dogs that are friends typically include chase games and play bows, and the puppies return again and again to each other, until they are exhausted. Other breeds are more likely to lose their tempers when they fight, and the fighting and growls get more frenetic, while the play bows disappear. It’s best to stop the fight if they start to look serious, even if the fights are between puppies. A lot of fights between socialised adult dogs are brief, and result in no damage to either dog. Typically, they involve a younger puppy being scolded for taking liberties with an older dog, or two entire males reaching adulthood. The owners of both males need to be especially careful on walks, since previously sociable male dogs may suddenly decide to ‘take out’ the other entire male dogs. Fights can also occur when dogs don’t understand each other’s body language, which often happens when dogs of different breeds meet. Bull Terriers and Rottweilers send fewer signals to other dogs, which may not realise when it is wiser to back off. If you have a dog that sometimes likes to pick fights, or seems to get involved in a lot of fights, keep them on a lead unless you have a clear view ahead, and know that any dog approaching is one they don’t fight with. Anticipate trouble, and try to spot approaching rivals before they do, so you can call them back to avoid trouble. Walking your dog in the same place at the same time every day helps you avoid fights, since you can get to know which dogs your dog likes, and which they don’t. Learn to read your dog’s body language when there are new dogs about, so you can keep at a comfortable distance if they seem wary. Even if your dog seems friendly, do check with other owners before letting yours approach their dog. Fights occur if the dogs don’t get enough space as well, for example if they are hemmed in on a narrow pathway. If the initial meeting looks promising, the best place for your dog to get to know a new dog is off the lead in an open space, like the middle of a field. Unsocialised dogs tend to fight out of fear. It’s worth trying to socialise adult dogs, even if you may never trust them off the lead with other dogs. It means that they are less likely to bite any young dog that approaches them, or to lunge at dogs that pass by. You may need to enlist the help of a trainer or someone with a lot of experience of dogs, who can help by exposing your dog to calm adult dogs that don’t react to barking and posturing. You may also take an unsoicalised dog to watch an outdoor training class at a safe distance, so long as all owners taking part in the class know not to let their dogs approach you. Set up markers so your dog has their ‘comfort distance’ respected. Aggression Owners of dogs that growl and snarl are often worried about having an aggressive dog. Growling and snarling is a way that dogs try to create distance, and want the human or dog they are growling at to go away, so the dog feels threatened or is frightened. This is a useful sign, so don’t punish your dog for growling, or you will just confirm their fears, and they may even learn to bite without growling. Growling says a dog doesn’t want to pick a fight, but may bite if you push it. Just stay standing, to show the growling won’t work to make you back off, and make yourself less a threat, by looking away, for example. If you tower over a growling dog, and try to touch their head it is likely to trigger biting, whereas squatting and talking to them gently may calm them down. Barking Barking dogs are often seen as aggressive when they are just barking out of excitement, because they want to play, or as an alarm call. Dogs may also bark and pull their owners sleeve if they think their owner is doing something dangerous, like using a vacuum cleaner, which some dogs see as a very strange, noisy object. This isn’t attacking, but protecting the owner. Dogs may also have never have learnt how to play gently with humans. Aggression is often mixed with fear. Dogs may be frightened, fearing that someone plans to hurt them, and make a show of aggression as a warning, to defend themselves. How you tackle this depends a lot on why the dog is frightened, and how much time you have. Generally, it’s better to tackle the fear than force the dog to do what they are frightened of. You may need to act fast for the dogs own sake, e.g. to muzzle the dog for veterinary treatment. In this case, move swiftly and decisively, whilst using gentle, soothing words. Dogs that show clear aggression may show this for a number of reasons. Firstly, check that there are medical problems, such as a brain tumour, or thyroid problem, especially if the aggression is sudden and unexpected. A vet may also find a hidden injury which could be causing pain. Pain will make dogs tetchy, and dogs will often growl if you touch a sore spot. Resource Guarding. Resource guarding is when a dog uses aggression to keep ownership of items of value to him such as food or a favourite toy. In the dog world this is perfectly natural and normal behaviour. Aggression is often caused by a dog that is fearful, worried or scared of something. Dog growls at strangers when walking on a lead = dog is worried about strangers. Dog growls at owners when he is on the sofa = dog is worried about losing his comfy resting place. Dog growls and snaps at owner when they approach him when he is eating = dog is worried that he will lose his food. All dogs should be given the chance to play with toys. They help with exercise, training and chewing. Sometimes however, certain dogs can get possessive when people try to touch them. The most common response from owner is to tell them off either verbally or physically. This only makes the situation WORSE. It increases the dogs fear and so the intensity of the dog’s behaviour. In other words this approach will probably get the person bitten than cure the problem. The owner must approach this problem with confident indifference ie make it clear to the dog that you are not really interested in their smelly toy anyway. Teaching the ‘take it’ and ‘leave it’ exercise is the best way to start. If the dog is only a toy guarder then the use of treats only for this exercise is recommended. You must NOT (during training) enter the dogs personal space to obtain the toy, you must get them to bring the toy to you. This is achieved by backing away whist encouraging the dog to come to you. High value treats can be thrown to the dog to encourage and reward its cooperation. GUARDING STOLEN ITEMS. Lots of owners inadvertently teach their dogs to steal items. The usual response is to chase after the dog and then this becomes a great game, or verbally telling them off and forcibly removing the item. The dog then will keep repeating this to make the game start again. There are three things the owner must ask themselves, Is the item dangerous to the dog? How valuable is the item to the owner? Is it the end of the world if the dog keeps the item? If the item is dangerous it must be retrieved as quickly as possible but avoiding direct confrontation. Grab something of really high value to the dog, like a lump of cheese or sausage or liver and throw pieces to the dog in quick succession. As the dog starts to take the food the owner should throw a handful away from the stolen item and when the dog moves away it can be safely removed. Any verbal interaction should be encouraging and rewarding so as not to arouse the fear trigger. The main things to remember are Owner’s verbal response must always be one of surprise and praise if you discover that your dog has stolen something. This is not rewarding the dog for stealing, the main aim is not to trigger the fear response and any form of firm language or physical manipulation will do this. By keeping the tone happy and non-confrontational you will keep the dog relaxed and relatively close to you. If you them walk towards the treat cupboard or fridge whilst congratulating the dog on its prize the chances are that it will follow you and then drop the item in favour of a treat. IT IS FAR BETTER TO HAVE A DOG THAT STEALS THINGS AND IMMEDIATELY LOOKS FOR THE OWNER TO SHOW THEM THEIR PRIZE IN ORDER TO GET A TREAT, THAN HAVING ONE THAT STEALS AND RUNS OFF WITH IT AND GUARDS IT WITH ITS LIFE. FOOD GUARDING Food is required to stay alive and is therefore very valuable. It is also often the highlight of a dogs day so to have someone come and mess with it can cause a dog a great deal of distress. The first step is to ensure that the dog is fed on a boring dried food Second step is to have a selection of very high value food at you disposal. The training starts with the owner being a distance away from the dog and its food. It is imperative that the dog’s fear trigger is not activated. The owners job is to happily call the dog’s name and throw a decent sized chunk of food as close to the bowl as possible. The food should be thrown whatever the dog’s response to the call may be. This should be done approx 3 times at every meal time. When it gets to the stage that the dog lifts its head out of the bowl on hearing his name in expectation of getting the food you can then take a step towards the dog and then throw the food. THIS PROCESS NEEDS TO BE BUILT UP VERY SLOWLY. IF IT IS RUSHED IN ANY WAY THE DOG MAY REGRESS VERY QUICKLY. The aim is for the owner to be able to call the dog’s name whilst it is eating and for the dog’s head to come happily out of the bowl in expectation of something nice being added to it. If this is achieved the dog is associating a good emotion with a person approaching them whilst eating instead of a fearful/defensive one. With puppies on no account should punishment be used as it will increase the behaviour. They need to be taught the correct behaviour in the first place before they can be corrected for getting it wrong. |
Allison wrote: My trainer used the "puppy yelp" method, this usually works best when really young. When the puppy bites you, yelp like a puppy would. This is how puppies learn when they are with all of their siblings yet. If that isn't working, try crating him/her for a few minutes ( they forget why they are in there after a few minutes so it's pointless to leave them for longer) after quite a few times of being put away for biting he'll realize that if he bites he doesn't get to play anymore. Sorry if I duplicated anyone else's, I didn't read through the other posts before writing mine (my exclamation key is broken... )we used this method with great success! I'd also like to recommend a book called "Your Outta Control Puppy" by Teoti Anderson. Don't let the title scare you off; it was great basic guidance for all new puppies and puppy owners! I got my copy at Dogwise.com |
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