Your opinions
As some of you may remember I had to put my OES down January of 05. I finally found a puppy and was ready to pick him up this morning. The woman who is the breeder had called last night to inform me that the puppies caught some type of infection or something and had diarhea. She took them to her vet who in turn gave her some medication that they have to take for 5 days. I didn't pick him up today because the puppy needs some extra attention and I've gotten the flu and didn't think I could take care of that. I wrote to the breeder asking her if she wouldn't mind giving me her vets number just so that I could talk to him personally myself and find out any and all information. She wrote back to me, gave me the number then informed me that I had insulted her as she was being truthful with me about the puppy. I don't want to start any fights and I really want the puppy BUT is that much of an insult for me to want to protect my investment. OES's don't come cheap and I just want to make sure that the puppy is healthy. I've talked to other friends and they've all told me the same thing that a breeder shouldn't hand over a puppy if it's not 100% healthy. Now I feel bad that I even asked her to talk to her vet, but then again I don't think I did anything wrong. Should I have not asked for any of the vet information? Should I have just accepted a puppy that was not 100% healthy? Any and all answers would help....... |
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| I think that's it's a situation that would require some finesse in asking for that information. How did you ask her for it? Maybe saying something like "I'd like the vet's number just so I can know what to look for in case of a relapse once I get the puppy. I'd like to know how serious this is and if I can treat the pup at home once he's here or if it requires going back to the vet," might've been a safe way to ask for the info, so she was clear that you weren't saying that she was dishonest (even if you did think so!). She's probably a little stressed out herself with a litter of diarrhea inflicted puppies! |
| All I asked was if I could have the phone # of her vet so that I can talk to him first hand on the subject.
I think I have every right to talk to the vet who is caring for the puppies. I would be more then happy to give any and all information to anyone wanting to buy a puppy from me and I wouldn't take it the wrong way. I would understand the worry about the puppy being slightly sick even if it's only diarhea. I've done some surfing on the subject and I've run across information stating that when you're buying a puppy you should even ask for all the paperwork, vet visits, shots etc. Why isn't it my right as a buyer to have as much knowledge as I possibly can about a puppy that I'm spending several hundred dollars on? I don't think I asked the wrong way. I just want to know how the puppy is, what to do etc. |
| As far as I am concerned you did do the right thing and if I were in the same situation I would of done exactly the same thing,spoke to the vet that is treating the puppies just to make sure they are 100% alright & to find out exactly what they have or wether it is just a dietry upset.
Also you are right too, don't pick up the puppy till it is over whatever it has got otherwise you too are in for maybe an extra added expense of getting the puppy home then rushing off to your vet with problems. Puppies should only ever go to their new homes 100% healthy so the new owner can then just spend time settling the new one into their new enviroment without the added worries of them being unwell 
Don't feel bad, you did the correct thing as you are paying top dollar for a healthy pup from a breeder and I would do the same thing in that situation too |
| No, no, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong in asking, you have every right to and you should! I just meant sometimes it's easier to put the burden on yourself to avoid a potentially messy situation and hurt feelings later, particularly if it's someone that you're going to have dealings with again. |
| No you don 't have to apologize. I just wanted everyone's input. I don't see why I have to take care of a sick puppy that I just get, I would rather have the breeder treat the dog for the 5 days, get a clean bill of health then pick him up. |
| I think you did the absolutely correct thing. Many good breeders will offer you the name of their vet as a reference. I would get the number AND CALL. this is a huge investment in time, money but most especially in your HEART and you don't want to get your puppy home, have something terrible happen and wind up with a broken heart. If this person is hesitant or insulted that you asked for her vets name SHAME ON HER!!!!!!!
Oh and please come back when you get your puppy home and share photos with us, WE LOVE PUPPIES  |
| You did nothing wrong. The breeder may have perceived that you were suspicious or something. Some times people get defensive, even if there was no reason and your intent was not accusitory.
Sounds like a mis-communication, as she did give you the phone number. |
| In my opinion, you are the buyer; you're going to live with that pup a long time and should be able to get help and assistance from the breeder. If she is that defensive about her position, I'd walk and find another breeder. |
| I would have done the same thing (asked for the vet's number).... but I agree that the breeder is probably stressed with a litter of sick puppies. It is probably coccidia or giardia, which is quite common and this year seems especially bad for it.
I personally wouldn't let a pup go to a new home until the course of medication was done and the pup had a clean bill of health. |
| Thanks so much. I've just written back to the breeder trying to explain what I meant. She'll probably take that wrong too. I'm tempted to send her the link to this forum so that she can read that I'm not the only one who thinks the way I am. But maybe the breeder will read it for themself since someone told me about this person last year when I had lost my Nana-Martha.
The breeder does visit this board. I just think that I should get a puppy that is 100% healthy and I shouldn't have to worry about giving the pup medication as soon as I bring him home. |
| Well I just received an e-mail back from the breeder. I tried to explain where I was coming from and that I talked to several other people, well you know what here's a copy of what I wrote:
"I am not trying to insult you and I do trust you. You've been doing this for years. I'm NOT saying that you're trying to pass a sick dog on me either. I'm saying that I just would like to speak with the vet on this whole issue to make sure I do the right thing and to keep an eye on it just in case it either returns or turns into something else. If I remember correctly when I spoke to you yesterday and you were telling me about the problem I could have sworn you mentioned that you would be glad to let me talk to your vet. I've been talking to several of my friends and since this is a big investment they've all told me the same thing. I have every right to talk to the vet whether the puppy is sick or not, even if it's a very minor thing. I've also looked up some information about buying a puppy and I've read the same thing over and over that the breeder should hand over a puppy that is 100% healthy. And again I am NOT implying that you are handing over a sick puppy. If you don't want to deal with me anymore simply because you think I don't trust you I'll understand. This has gotten way out of hand and all that really matters here is the puppies health. If I've upset you I apologize. NOW HERE'S THE ANSWER I JUST RECEIVED: "Your 100% correct that I'm upset and the tone of your E-mail didn't help much either. Please do call the vet ..... ask for ----------. or his tech ------. I would expect that you have a vet that will be taking care of ----? He is the one who should be consulting with Doctor -----. I will be waiting for conformation on when you will be picking up -----? We have a contract and it's time for you to make arrangements to take him home... Your the only one who had a problem with this. All of the other pups were picked up and taken home without a problem. I have been called by all that have taken their babies home and are 100% +++ satisfied Sounds more like you have you have buyers remorse to me ....Remember your balance is due in Cash !!!" I've been waiting to pick this puppy up for 8 weeks. I have cages up, food bought everything ready and cash in hand, why in the world would this person get so pissed off about 1 thing???????????????// |
| Well, it sounds like all have been bitten by the problem with the written word as opposed to the spoken word. We run into that all the time here on the forum, and is the reason for our mantra(s):
"Write your posts as if you are chatting with a neighbor who you don't know very well, sitting at your kitchen table, sharing a cup of tea", and "When reading a post, assume the poster meant no insult." Even in the face of that response, assume the breeder meant no insult, and write your next email with good intentions. Better yet, take a deep breath and give him/her a friendly call. |
| This has gotten way out of hand and I'm to the point where I will NOT have somebody insinuating that I'm backing out of a deal when I already paid $300 as a deposit.
This person may be mad but I'm getting madder by the minute. I told the breeder yesterday that I had gotten the flu anyway so now I don't care what this person thinks anymore. I'm getting the dog, I want the dog, that's all there is to it. I will tell you this, I will NEVER deal with this breeder again and I just hope I can look at my new puppy and not get mad everytime I see him now. I have very fond memories of getting my first OES but this may be the last because of this one breeder. The next dog I get is gonna be a mutt. |
| Getting upset with the breeder, or getting upset every time you look at your puppy (which won't happen!) would only eat at you, not the breeder, so who will you be "punishing?"
Relax, feel better physically, feel better mentally, and enjoy the moments of your new pup. Those first moments are something that will never happen again. Don't let this burn you up. |
| AS an X breeder I can tell you that no questions asked by the Adopting Parents should be consider as insulting. Why is she offended? Who is paying the money to GET A HEALTHY PUPPY? She shouln't be offened by wanting the Vets info and ato talk to him unless she she doesn't want you to talk to the Vet.Sometimes they don't even take the Babies to the Vet..The give all the shots themselves..........Buyer Beware!!!!!!! Better be Pissed Off Now then Heart Broken Later....This is My Opinion as a Breeder For Many Years.........Kaye GGGGGGGRRRRRRRR |
| I wasn't upset until this person keeps telling me how insulted she feels just because I asked for a vet phone #.
My god, she can't understand that paying $800 for a dog when that's half of my mortgage payment is cause enough for me to worry about the health of a puppy. Even if the puppy wasn't sick I'd still want to know everything I could about the puppies health. I already handed over the $300 deposit. This person also knows that I got the flu and that I couldnt' get there. I'll take work off and just go pick him up. This has gotten so out of hand simply because I asked for a vet # when this person is the one who said they would be more then happy to let me talk to the vet the very first time I was called and told about the diarhea problem. I also didn't want to be the last one to pick up the puppy because it would be hard to see the last puppy leaving it's mom and dad. I had all my plans for yesterday to be the first one there and heaven forbid I get the flu AND the dog gets sick at the same time. Heaven forbid if I ask to see all the papers that go to the vet, I'll probably get thrown out of her house with the puppy close behind. |
| TAKE A DEEP BREATH, HOLD IT, EXHALE S L O W L Y. What is important is the puppy that you are bringing home, not the issues with the breeder. It would certainly be nice if things could be smoothed over and she would accept your request. It is often great to have your breeder as a reference person. BUT, doesn't sound like that is going to happen so I would try to remain calm long enough to pick your puppy up (which I would do as soon as possible) then come home and put the misunderstanding behind you.
One thing I've learned aobut people is that you really don't know what motivates them. This person could be just a miserable person or she could have had an experience in the past where someone lead her on about purchasing a puppy then backed out. She may just be having a really bad week. You know that the request you are making is a reasonable one so try to remain calm, complete the deal and enjoy the nex 15 years with your new baby!!! |
| I'm still upset. Several hours have passed and I still can't understand why in the world anyone would get pissed because I asked for the vets phone # when she's the one who suggested it to begin with when she first told me about the problem.
I dread going to this woman's home now. I'm going to have to miss work tomorrow and pick him up. I'll just have the cash in hand, call her tell her I'm coming, have all the paperwork that I'm supposed to get from her in an envelope and just hand me everything at the door. I don't even want to go in her house much less deal with her. I will never deal with her again and will pass on how she's treated me. So what all the other people are happy with their puppies, fine, good for them. When I got my first OES I never received any paperwork other then the registration AKC. I didn't know any better. It was the first full breed dog I ever bought. But now I know better, 13 years later, I should have any and ALL information about a full breed dog. I'm sorry I keep fuming but she talks about being upset and insulted. I'm really upset and can't believe that someone would get all bent out of shape just giving me a phone # that she suggested I get anyway. |
| I'm sorry I guess I look at getting a puppy from a breeder a little differently........She owes you every explaination and every bit of proof asked for. She has no right to be offended about anything. It is the otehr way around. You should be offened. Amd asking a LOT OF QUESTIONS!!!!!..I personally would be scared to death to get a puppy from this breeder..If she is this way now how is she going to be if you have a problem. Does this Baby come with written Health Guarantee?. I don't mean a vet check Heath Cert. Whata guarantee are you gettting for your money except a little fur ball? Honey, I have 3 week old rescue Babies that I would guarantee more then this person is. Please Just Think This Through!!!!! You are talking about a Life Time Commitment... Everytime this subject comes up about irresponsible breeders I Go Crazy!!!!!Sheepie Hugs, Kaye |
| Hi. I can understand that you are upset. I don't think you did anything wrong either by asking to speak with the vet. You should feel comfortable with your breeder to ask him/her any questions you have. All the OES people in our area that I've spoken to in our area have been so generous with information. PM me if you'd like to discuss the information on pups I received in the last 24 hours from Chicagoland OES. |
| The thing is I've already seen the puppy. I went to see him when he was 3 weeks old. I do want him and I already put a $300 deposit on him. Money is not easy for me to come by and I've sold alot of things on Ebay to come up with this money for the puppy. I can't just back out. I signed her contract that she keeps bringing up to me plus I'm not gonna say keep the $300 I don't want the puppy. If worse comes to worse and she doesn't take the puppy back because he isn't healthy and just wants to teach me a lesson I guess I'll just have to have him put to sleep which will kill me. Then I will have learned my lesson to never trust another breeder again and I know there not all like this. I just don't know what this woman's problem is. I asked for nothing that anyone else wouldn't have and I definitely didn't incinuate that she was lying to me about anything. |
| Hi,
Sorry to hear that you are going through all of this angst. Besides the fact that the breeder shouldn't be angry about your questions, is mute at this point. I don't know who the breeder is, how many years breeding etc. But I do know that some of the long time breeders are bothered by certain questions. They do expect you trust their years of experience. I know this is not fair. You do need to understand that there are quite a few breeders out there that have spent most of their lives with dogs, NOT PEOPLE. So their social skills are not the greatest. So they can get easily bent. good luck. |
| Take a deep breath and know that you are getting the puppy that is right for you. I am sensing that this has been a serious mis-communication.
Remember, she has had a house full of puppies with diarhea and probably not had much sleep I think she simply took your question the wrong way and may even apologize when you pick up your sweet puppy.
Good luck! |
| Jamie, I Hope and Pray with All My Heart that you get a Healthy Happy Puppy. I know WHen I used to be a breeder I got tired of screening people..The same staements " Oh They Are So Cute and I Want One" I got tired of telling people that for what ever reason they weren't going to get one of My Babies......But, I NEVER EVER evaded a Question when it came to the Health of The Baby. If anything I probally ws TO OPEN when it came to any Health Problems... I was so open sometimes I had all the Parents scared........ Because I have been on boths sides of the fence of breeding and rescue I understand both sides........ My Heart Hurts for You that this should have been such a Happy TIme for you and The Breeder..... A Good Breeder is Thrilled to meet Their Parents and Stand at the Door and Cry as The Baby they have brought into this World and raised Leaves For It's New Furever Home.... Hope to Hear This ALl TUrn Out Great and It Was Just A Misunderstanding.......Sheepie Hugs, Kaye |
| I think you should look at this as a new day, put the the unpleasantness behind and assume the best. As larkles said, the lady had a house full of puppies with diarrhea and perhaps she was not at her best. If nothing else the transfer will occur and you will have your new pup and the rest of his life ahead of you. Put the anger behind you and enjoy!! Don't let it cloud the home coming.
We can't wait to hear about him |
| I'm sorry about all the trouble you've been having when it's supposed to be such a happy time.
To me, it sounded like a mis communication. When you went to visit the puppy when it was 3 weeks old, how was the breeder? Did you get a sense of if they were nice or anything? Let's say she is a nice, upstanding breeder. She puts a lot of effort and time into her puppies. She spends all her days with them. She cares for them. They get sick and she lets you know. I can understand her being a little upset if the tone you (accidentally) used could have offended her--not the actual request for the vet's number. Sometimes words and meanings can get jumbled--I know I can say things and then wish I had said them the way I actually wanted to say them. Also, email can get misread SO quickly. You could be happily writing la la la and the person on the other end can read it in a totally different tone. In reading the email you sent to the breeder, I can see how this paragraph could be miread--"I've been talking to several of my friends and since this is a big investment they've all told me the same thing. I have every right to talk to the vet whether the puppy is sick or not, even if it's a very minor thing. I've also looked up some information about buying a puppy and I've read the same thing over and over that the breeder should hand over a puppy that is 100% healthy. And again I am NOT implying that you are handing over a sick puppy." If I were you, I would be civil at the breeder's house--not just shove the money over at the door and grab the puppy and run. Be the bigger person and be calm and friendly--you don't have to be overly sweet--but show her you are a caring person. |
larkles wrote: Remember, she has had a house full of puppies with diarhea and probably not had much sleep
I think she simply took your question the wrong way and may even apologize when you pick up your sweet puppy.My Bailey has had diarrhea for the past week and let me tell you, cleaning up after one dog was enough to make me miserable! So I agree with Larkles, you weren't catching her on a good day 
If I were you I would put this aside and walk into her house with a good attitude. You want to be projecting positive energy for your puppy. They can tell what we're feeling, and you want the puppy to be happy to be going home with you, the nice friendly lady who already loves him/her. Not scared to be going home with the mean lady who's snapping at her breeder. And don't worry about that "last puppy" thing. Bailey was the last one too. It wasn't sad or traumatic. |
| barney, the email you are referring to was AFTER she sent me her e-mail telling me that she was insulted. The e-mail you are referring to was several e-mails AFTER that incident.
I just home with the puppy. The breeder seemed a little cold and then said she was sorry but that those are her babies. Yeah, so, that had NOTHING To do with it. All I asked was for the vet phone# after she offered to give it to me the first time I talked to her. Just cuz things go wrong in your life you shou'dnt take it out on customers. I have things go wrong at work all the time. If I brought my problems home and took it out on my family, then that's uncalled for. Anyway, it's over and done with, I'm home, the puppy is crying her eyes out and my son's dog just wants to play! |
| OF COURSE THE PUPPY IS CRYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have taken him away from his mother and he is in a whole new situation. |
Jamie wrote: Just cuz things go wrong in your life you shou'dnt take it out on customers. I have things go wrong at work all the time. If I brought my problems home and took it out on my family, then that's uncalled for.
I think you need to understand that a breeder doesn't see you as "their customer". And if you do feel that it's her business, then you should expect her to be defensive when you are questioning her abilities. Email is tough because you don't get to hear the tone of someone's voice. I'm glad you were able to pick up your puppy okay. Sorry to hear that things didn't get smoothed over much. It's always good to have a good relationship with your breeder. |
| From what I am reading, it sounds like your attitude is as much at fault as hers. I think you need to take a step back and re-examine how you have approached the problem. |
| The puppy is fine................and this is NOT the first puppy I've ever owned so I know why puppies cry. |
| I am so SO sorry you are having to deal with this! I, as a breeder am ashamed for the person you are dealing with!
I would NEVER treat one of my puppy buyers that way......... I am just amazed this person has turned this around on you. First off, I would never let one of my puppies that was not 100% well go off to someone else. Please don't think all breeders are that way.......... and don't let this be your last OES.......... |
| Now to the important stuff:
CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR NEW PUPPY!!! What's the new Puppy's name? I bet Nana- Martha is smiling down on you right now and so happy you have the sweet new puppy. When do we get to see pictures? |
| Dear Guest:
But you are WRONG......... Puppy buyers ARE Customers and that is something that needs to be remembered. |
| Please please tell us about the puppy and pictures too! |
Aw. I'm so sorry you had such as bad experience Try to put it behind you and enjoy your new puppy  |
| He's a pretty good little puppy. Did I say little? He weighed in at 15lbs when he visited the vet. His paws are bigger then my son's full grown 4 year old dog. He barely cries at night and he loves playing with my son's dog...........hereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee's Sir McCartney/Macca/MAC. Be patient, they take time to load
http://www.batcages.com/macsmile1.JPG http://www.batcages.com/macsmile2.JPG http://www.batcages.com/sleepymac.JPG |
| He is so sweet, what a face I love his eye patch. |
| He's very handsome -love his markings! |
ooooh! So cute! I love his black around his mouth! He looks like he'll be keeping you busy...sounds like you have a giant in the making  |
| Very cute!!!
Thanks for the pictures!! |
| Adorable! Such a happy face!
Chris |
| What a cutie!!!
I love the picture of him smiling  |
| SO CUTE! I love puppies with eye patches Welcome Mac! |
| Hey there,I should state I only read your post thread so I dont know what has happened since you posted 1st.(my ADD makes it hard too read and stay focused)Saying this I feel you had EVERY right too call her vet even IF the pup wasnt sick.Granted the breeder was up front in telling you your pup was sick,but why be insulted you wanted too be reassured your new baby was going too be ok in the long run. When I got Oliver(my mini horse)I went into it blind,I found out I got him form a dealer(my mini was going too be dog food if I hadnt adopted him,I didnt know this when I 1st met the lady)Before I had the vet go out and see Oliver I asked Roxy(the "lady" who had him 1st)does Oliver have all his shots,and does he have his coggins?She didnt know.Well in Wi it is a huge NONO too transport a horse w/o an up too date coggins test.At 1st Roxy say well why dont you call so-so(who owned him before her)too see what shots and such he has.I was like ok she didnt have their #,but gave me their names and where they live,they live like 1hr from me.She then says "Well I know he doesnt have his coggins test up too date."I was like well you just moved him 2ths ago,he should have had one then.She says "Well I think its a waste of itime test,non-sence if you ask me."Coggins is a blood test you HAVE too have done too insure your horse isnt a carrier of this blood disease,if its + he is avery sick boy,even the meat market needs them.I found out Roxy fakes them too sell the minis too slaughter.Anywas,right after I talked to Roxy,she calls me back and says "I was thinkin maybe I should call these people too find ut his vet records,so they dont get all PO'ed".My 1st thought was "well "IF" they are truely keeping their animals healthy they should NOT care."At this point I knew Oliver had NO shots.So I called the vet and set up ALL of his vaccinations and the blood test w/ a complete physical.Roxy calls me like 30mins later too inform me that oliver is NOT up too date on his shots.BIG surprise I thought.So my feelings are if someone has an issue w/ giving vet info,they must be hiding something.Id want my pup,cat,any animal I was selling too go too a home who is interested in his health. Sorry for rambeling... |
| WOW, he's really cute! Love his beautiful smile and loving eyes. Glad you went ahead and got him. He's a real winner. |
| Ok I read all post.I also believe that ANYONE who seeks out for any pet IS a customer.PLainly due too the fact that customer WILL be telling his/her friends about the breeder rather it be + or -. Now off that,I have too say you have one heck of a cutie pie,MAN!Between karen and now your pup I think Im getting the puppy itch.  |
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