Check Chains dangerous? Enough is enough!

I've seen posts about the danger of "check chains" or "choker collers" presenting a danger to chocking a dog if the caught it on something. But I've used them for years with never a problem....until....

Like many of you my guys have to coach me while I'm doing my morning constitutional. Both of them standing guard in the standard 5x7 bath. Some months ago Barney turned to exit and caught his chain on the knob of the vanity door. He panicked and began to pull away; fortunately I was sitting there close enough to grab the chain and unhook it with no trouble.
Just a fluke accident I thought, and other than doorknobs, the only knobs in the house. No worry.

Well it happened again this morning!! That's it. Chains are off and are history. On second thought maybe I can sell them to the judge trying Hussein.

Question: are regular snap on cloth collars also dangerous?

Please, if any of you are using these things -- get rid of them.

As for training, use pinch collars -- they are safe, don't chock, and are quite gentle. If you have doubts put one on your leg and pull on it. My guys respond much better to them than they ever did on choke collars. Even so, they should never be left on a dog if not in an actual training session.

Respond to this topic here on forum.oes.org

Hi George,

I use a pinch collar on Beau for walking and have a better walk. I've never used a choke chain. I do use a nylon collar for everyday purposes with no problems.

It's a good thing that you were there when the incident happened.

Karen and Beau

The wigglebums don't wear collars unless we're out in a public place. Then I put their nylon collars with their tags on them and use a harness to walk them. If we're walking around the neighborhood, I use a martingale type collar to walk them. I don't keep collars on my cats either - same reason. Too dangerous -plus the whole matting issue :evil:

what is a pinch collar??? and where do I get one??
thanks,
T

A great article on pinch (or prong) collars is here:

http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?p=8097#8097

There's a good link out to an article on how to fit them as well.

I never use a collar at all unless we're going out on a walk. If you're using a choke chain or a pinch collar to train, it really should only be used while training and not for everyday wear.

I think both of those are fine for training but I really hate when people leave them on their dogs at the dog park. It's not only dangerous for the dog wearing it but if another dog harmlessly mouths the dogs neck, he could get hurt too. I saw it happen at our dog park after someone asked the guy to take the collars off his 2 dogs. Ironically, one of his dogs bit the other and the one cut his mouth. If it weren't for the poor dog getting hurt, it would've been a wonderful "I told you so" moment.

No collars are on my dogs unless we go walking or out somewhere. Don't even leave a collar on in the car. Use chain collar only for the show ring and for walking use a lead that has a built in collar all in one & just slip that over there head and ready to go when we get out of the car.

Those pinch/prong collars are banned in Australia.

If I had any problems with controlling them when they were younger always used a Halti (Gentle Leader) till the dog was trained & not pulling.

I keep collars on my dogs, I'm too afraid they will run out the front door or something. They never have... LOL.... but still... that goes back to my first oes, she used to bolt every chance she could and she would run for miles if she could.
I have a flat collar on Dancer, and a medium thickness rolled nylon choke on Panda and Sky.
The flat collars mat the coat so badly, but Dancer was in short coat, and will be shaved again when it gets warmer.

I am a postive trainer and only use positive methods with my dogs, which does not include chokes or pinch collars. There is a reason that the Association of Pet Dog Trainers does not recommend their use. If they did not cause pain then they would not work, as it would not deter the dog. Just because a dog has a higher pain threshold and will tolerate it more doesn't mean they don't feel it.

But my biggest concern with them is the association that the dog may develope unbeknownst to the handler. For example, the dog sees a young child in a stroller and pulls to see it. The dog is corrected and can associate the cause of the "discomfort" with the stroller, or the child, or the bike that happened to drive by at the same time, and developes a dislike for something that way...and the handler is not aware of what jsut happened.

I don't let my dogs anywhere near a dog wearing a pinch. I will not take a chance that the dog has perhaps taken a dislike for hairy dogs in that manner, and my dog gets the brunt of it. Here's an article about the general use of chokes, pinches and shock collars. They are all negative tools that may appear to work for the job of stopping the dog from pulling, but at what cost?

http://www.learningdog.com/articles/art ... 6/7096.htm

And unfortunately, there are people who will not use them correctly. There was a woman at the dog park with 3 german shephards, and they each had a pinch collar on. Bosley wanted to play with one of them and I was so afraid that they would be wrestling and his 70 pounds would end up on the poor dog's neck. The dog would have no reason NOT to take it out on Bosley, perhaps feeling he was biting too hard for a play wrestle. And what would Bosley have learned? Not to like german shepherds....

Hi,

George your post reminded me of something awful that happened aprox 16 years ago...and I still get the willies when I think of it.

I mentioned in another post of how I lived in a suburban cul de sac, where a few houses away was a huge open field, privately owned. The fellow allowed people to walk their dogs there and the person next door to him owned sheep. The sheep would often roam both fields. On our daily walks Shaggy would often look for the sheep, try to round them up and they would always head back to their barn. Once there, she would turn around and come back to me.

One day she took a lot longer than usual and I became concerned and called her. Nothing. I finally crossed the field into the other farmers field and there she was hanging . Gasp! Her back paw was still touching the ground . thankfully!! I raced over and released her from the metal fencing. I can only guess she either leaped and her chain became entangled. She was wearing a choke chain and although I didn't have it in the choke position, I can only imagine what would have occurred had I waited a bit longer or if it had been in the choke position.

See....still get the willies after all these years at the memory. Thankfully she was allright but I never again had her in a chain after that incident.

Marianne and the boys

Excellent post Nicole.... puts things into a whole new perspective.

Great post nicole and the link is a very informative read, Thanks :wink:

I can feel the horror/panic you must have felt Marianne. It also brings back some from my own experience...

We had an incident about 7 years ago where our Border Collie-mix and our Schipperke-mix got their regular clip and buckle collars with licenses/tags hooked together. We had our Schip on a clothesline lead with a clip because we were teaching her to come with it. Both dogs were playing nicely together and all of a sudden they were struggling. The tags and collars got hooked in some way that I can't even really explain but when we tried to get the collars off, it wouldn't release. Our Schip was choking to death before our eyes and we couldn't get the da** collar off her! I ran to the house for scissors but they were struggling so much that I was afraid I might stab one of them. To this day I have no idea how but we (yes, there were 2 of us) were able to get one collar to release. My Schip then proceeded to attack my BC because she thought she was trying to kill her. sigh...

THAT was the last time my dogs have worn a collar on our property. They are always leashed/collared when we go out of the secured area but we don't leave them unattended with collars on. If we need to direct them, I grab their scruff instead of a collar.

Marianne, that's exactly the vision I saw in my mind's eye when this happened. When the guys are outside they love wrestle with each other, both standing on their hind legs, sometimes near the chain link fencing. The same thing could easily happen to one of them.

Such scary stories -

I have one to add. My neighbor's min-pin had a nylon collar with tags. While they were out the min-pin somehow got its tag caught on a floor cast iron heating grate. The poor dog was stuck on it (& it was winter and the heat was blowing) for a while. They came home and the min-pin had burn marks on it's neck & chest.

They do have nylon break away collars but I wouldn't recommend them if you're keeping your dog in coat as the hair will mat.

Mine don't wear collars inside the house.

Ooooh, the poor baby. To think he was held there with no way to escape. :cry:

You think you're doing the responsible thing by keeping a collar on your dog because it has all the info on how to get them back to you. It was a tough decision for me to NOT collar them while on the property.

The breakaway collar is a good idea. Premier makes a breakaway collar http://www.keepsafecollar.com . It might be a good alternative to look at... just be certain that you've hooked both loops with the leash before heading out the door or it will probably do what it says!

George wrote:

That's it. Chains are off and are history. On second thought maybe I can sell them to the judge trying Hussein.

AGREED!

Hi All

THANK YOU everyone for reminding me of how collars can become life threatening

Here in the city, we just have to keep something on the shaggy crew soooo I just ordered 3 breakaway collars :!:

I like the quality of the Premier Gentle Leaders...ours have been used a lot & washed many times & still look pretty good!
Diane...hook both loops ... *reminding self*
PS Thanks Jaci for the Premier site :wink:

http://www.keepsafecollar.com

Hi Diane-
Please let me know how they work! I've been pleased with the Gentle Leader too. I wrote to Premier earlier today to see if there is any way possible to adapt their Gentle Spray citronella collars to the break-away collars. You know Meesha and Kaytee :roll:

BTW I love your Avatar. Beebs is one of the flowers in that beea-U-tiful arrangement (tee-hee).

The site I listed on the previous page also has the Premier Collars.... But Cheaper!!

Hi Elissa-
I posted the mfr. address so that people could read about how they work and why it's a good choice for a collar. Diane is going to send me a bill for the over charge

Guess I should have reread Elissa's post ... Phooey :oops:

OK Jaci

Let's call it even...You have helped me with so much stuff...
Just think of the fees

-Dear Jaci advice
-Dr. JACI
-Computer guru
-Photoshop advisor
Do I have to say more?!
Diane...the shipping was more $ too

Ha! I paid her to say all that "stuff"

Honestly, I just liked the mfr. site because it provided more info... Elissa, I wasn't trying to one-up you.

I'm sorry... I should have posted your link and the mfr. link together.

Diane, I'll scrounge around to see if I can find something nice to send you in order to make up for my faux pas (yeah, I had to look that one up). Well, may be it wasn't a social blunder but close enough.

The mfr. doesn't make the break-away collar for the citronella Gentle Spray. They said it's an idea they'll send down to product design for feedback. It made me all sweaty just thinkin' about what can happen. I'll have to get the break-away collars and figure a way to attach the sprayers. I'm not going to pay as much as Diane though! :lol:

One thing I was thinking though is that you probably can't grab their collars to restrain them... you may want to grab them by the scruff (if they allow it). Mine are all used to this. I don't know how much pressure the collar can take before releasing.

I looked it up and this is what they say...

http://www.keepsafecollar.com/pages.cfm?id=25
Caution: To restrain your dog without a leash, grasp the collar with your hand around the Break-Away Buckle, otherwise the collar may release and your dog will be loose. If you anticipate certain situations will require frequent restraint, you may want to hold your dog by attaching the leash or choose a different collar style for the duration of that activity. We recommend the martigale-style Premier Collar. Click here for more information at Premier Pet Products.

Jaclin,
I didn't think you were trying to one up me at all.
I just didn't know if you had realized it was cheaper on the other site.
And WOW...much cheaper on Amazon.... I may just have to place an order.

HEY! Wait till I give you an oes.org link! lol

I didn't order yet Ron..... Post that link

OK....now I need some advice.
Rags & Pepsi's necks are about 18" which size should I get?
The 14-20 or 18-28?

Hi Elissa- here are two more addresses with information that might help you decide the best size. It looks to be from the lady that owned Chinook, the reason the collar was designed... he was gorgeous.

Personally, I think I'd err on the side of the smaller one that would break-away easier. But I have to say this again, you cannot grab the collar to restrain the dog and expect it to hold.

From the sounds of it your dog WILL break free which could be another safety problem.

http://www.breakawaycollar.com/shop/order_items.cfm
"Collars should fit comfortably snug. Measure your dog's neck and add approximately 1" for correct size."

"Adjust size for correct fit by moving the metal slide on the collar. The collar should fit comfortably snug. Allow one to two fingers between the collar and your dog's neck."

http://www.breakawaycollar.com/products.cfm
"...Breaking Strength
We have been involved with break-away technology since 1996. Break-away technology in its application to animals is not an exact science. As applied to a living animal under uncontrollable field conditions the variances are unlimited.

Relative to the vast diversity of size, confirmation, weight, strength, age, and activity level of the dog population combined with the unpredictable ways in which a collar can become caught, there is no formula that can be used to calculate appropriate breaking strength that would be realistic or accurate.

We developed our current breaking strengths for the collars through laboratory and extensive field test evaluations. We distributed over 100 collars to veterinarians, trainers and breeders for evaluation on different size dogs. Through these evaluations we were able to determine what breaking strengths were too strong and what were too weak.

Compared to conventional dog collars which are designed not to break, our safety collars are designed to release under pressure under most circumstances. We error on the side of safety in that the collars release more easily than not.

The breaking strength will vary depending on how pressure is applied to the collar. For example, if pressure is applied in-line, at an angle or twisted, the strength will vary. The breaking strength is lowest when it is pulled apart "in-line". For these reasons we do not give specific pounds of pressure breaking strengths for the collars.
..."

Well phooey Ron. I didn't know you got a commission or I would have waited to order. :cry:

I'm such a novice at this. I'm not going to admit how many I ordered either :oops:

A breakaway collar isn't going to do any good in an emergency though, for example if your dog goes to bolt out the door and you grab it as they go by, it will break. Or if your dog sees something on a walk and wants to chase it, it will break.

Keep Safe Break-Away Collars
Price: $6.90

OK...
I do believe I will hire y'all as my personal shoppers!
Start a new tab for my fees Jaci :wink:

Geez...I'm usually pretty good at getting a low price
Diane...blew it this time :oops:

Thanks Ron for the link..I will cancel my other order!

Thanks for the info Jaclin

Stacey,
You are right about if the dog bolts out of the house...
But while on the leash you connect to the two d-rings and it looses the ability to break away. If you only connect to one of the d-rings it will break away. It is a safety feature for walks. As long as both d-rings are connected to the leash it will not break. The D-rings are on each side of the break away link.

After owning one I now know that you can grab them by the collar.
It will only release if it is twisted to a 90 degree angle or more.
I had Pepsi attached by only the one d-ring during grooming he jumped back and twisted and it broke free.

Oh yeah... I did the same thing. I adapted the brake-away collars for the citronella no-bark sprayers and I grabbed Kaytee's collar when she was trying to go out to play. I ended up with just the collar

But it does say that in all the instructions. They say to place your hand over the brake-away part and that's worked for me... so far... but she's only a 45 pound sheepie. Sigh. I would never trust it though if I had a problem with any of them trying to bolt through the front door or into a non-secure area. Gotta remember to grab the scruff instead.

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