puppy aggression
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| Sasha,
I'm very sorry for your troubles. While I like to think that this forum is useful, right now we don't have enough members to get you an answer very quickly, so I am going to recommend that you join OES-L e-mailing list. OES-L has 700+ members, about 100 of whom post very frequently. Some of the people there are VERY experienced Sheepie people. To get to the OES-L webpage so you can join, just click on the big "www.oes.org" logo in the top left corner of this page, click on the "Community" page link, and near the bottom of that page is a link to the OES-L website. Also, if anyone here has advice for Sasha, please post it here! Unlike the OES-L, this is a PUBLIC forum, where people can search for answers to issues like this without having to join, and without having to repeat questions already answered. Also if someone chooses, they can remain anonymous and still post here. Good luck, Sasha. Please keep us informed. -Ron. |
| Hi Sasha
I haven't had a puppy for a very long time, but I believe it unusual for a puppy to be aggressive at all. Have you taken your puppy to a puppy school yet? It looks like your pup is very strong-willed and you will need to go to obedience school so you can learn how to train your puppy so he can learn some manners. Good luck with your puppy. I'd love to know how you get on, so please let us know. Cheers Karen |
| Golly, I hope you either got an answer or joined the OES-L as Ron suggested. I just joined this forum, else I would have responded earlier.
I have experienced life with 6 OES rescues over the last 25 years, some with behavioral "issues". It is really, really important to address this issue immediately and consistently. Dogs are pack animals and they need to know their "place" in the pack. Clearly, their "place" needs to be subordinate to yours. Dogs test this in a variety of ways and the way to assert your "alpha-ness" leadership is through training. If there is a local training group that offers puppy classes or basic obedience, think about enrolling immediately. Try to find a class that uses positive reinforcement. If you can't find a class, email me with your location and I'll try to find one. The expense is usually modest and it's a really good investment to ensure the puppy gets conditioned properly. You can also find a number of good websites with training articles. Also, consider leaving a short leash (or string, or rope) on the dog at all times, even when in the house. A "Gentle Leader" leash is a good training and management tool and comes with a booklet on use for modifying negative behavior. You'd be surprised how subtle the signals are that dogs read when they are determining who the leader is. Some "rules" for establishing pack order: - All dogs wait at doorways and let humans go through first - All dogs (blocking doorways, hallways) must move and make way for humans - All dogs must "earn" their treats, by obeying some command - All dogs are fed after humans have eaten - All dogs must "earn" their dinner; the dish is put down and the dog must wait to eat until the human says it's OK - Puppies who are assertive or aggressive are not allowed to play tug of war or rough wrestling with humans - Puppies must "earn" the right to play with specific toys, the human initiates the activity, not the puppy - Puppies who are assertive or aggressive can not be put in a position where their head is at the same height as humans' -- e.g., do not allow to play on the bed or sofa when you are lying down - Puppies who are assertive or aggressive should not be allowed to share humans' bed -- a sign of equal pack status. - Puppies who are assertive are not allowed to "stare down" their human Along with establishing that the human is the leader, alpha, you need to reward any progress toward the behavior you desire. (I had a young OES who was one step from being euthanized for badly biting two people over "possession" issues -- the behavior escalates as the dog matures). If the pup growls over the food bowl, take it away. Return the food and only leave it when the dog doesn't growl, then make an enormous fuss about what a good dog it is. Ditto toy possession -- teach the pup to "drop it" on command, and give a food reward and lots of praise for every step toward achieving that command. To this day, I still make all my sheepies sit and wait in front of their food until I tell them is's OK to eat. Be wary of training methods that use "alpha roll", physical yanking or major physical "correction" of the pup. The easiest command to teach a puppy is to "sit", and I'd suggest that you train that behavior immediately, and reward the puppy consistently when it obeys. The easy way to teach the sit is hard to describe in words, but here goes. - Find a food treat that the puppy really loves. - Bend over the dog and hold the collar with your left hand - With your right hand, hold the treat just over and above the dog's head - Fairly slowly, move the treat back toward the dog's tail, without letting it back up and say "sit" - When the dog sits, give lots of praise and another treat and say "good sit" This works better than the method of pushing the dog's hindquarters down. Once a dog knows how to sit, teaching them to lie down is also fairly easy. - Tell the dog to sit -- reward with treat and praise - Holding the dog's collar while it is sitting, put a treat in front of it's nose and move it forward and down toward the floor while saying "down". - When the dog is down, give lots of praise and another treat and say "good down" |
 HI EVERYONE, I'M NEW HERE AND TO THE OES WORLD, WE GOT AN OES TWO MONTHS AGO WHEN HE WAS 8 WEEKS OLD AND HE STARTED OUT REALLY SWEET BUT KNOW WE CHEWS AND BITES EVERYONE, IS THIS BECUASE HE IS A PUPPY AND IS TEETHING? HE JUMPS ALL OVER MY KIDS TOO, AND I CAN NOT GET HIM POTTY TRAINED, MY HUSBAND IS READY TO GET RID OF HIM, BUT I REFUSE, HE IS BEING NEUDERED IN A FEW WEEKS DO YOU THINK THIS WILL HELP? THANKS, LORA[/b] |
| Lora,
You need to get your puppy into an obedience class! Your puppy is young and niping and chewing and jumping are typical puppy behavior - but behavior that needs to be stopped immediately. An obedience class will teach you to teach the dog who is in charge (you) and in turn you will stop the bad behavior. I have 4 young children and can tell you first hand that it will require alot of time and patience on your part to make sure that your puppy becomes a well behaved member of your family but it is possible. But you have to be willing to put the time into it - remember, you will get out of it what you put into it. My puppy just turned 1 year old and is a pleasure to have around. People always comment on how good she is. What they don't know is that I put alot of time and energy into make sure that she turned out that way. It is well worth it though. Hang in there and check into a training class as soon as you can . Good Luck! Ann & Phoebe |
| Ann and Phoebe,
Thanks for the information, as far as classes for my dog, I live in a very small and there is no place around here, the closes large town is an hour away, with 3 kids I don't have time. The vet keeps saying he will grow out of it, but I'm starting to wonder. thanks again, Lora |
Try the newspapers. My previous 2 sheepies learnt through that manner. They became wonderful after that. I know it sounds aggressive to a lot of ppl out there but once they learn, at least you know the next time your pup's up to mischief again, the sound of newspapers crunching sounds as you roll it up will instill enough discipline in him!  |
| Lora,
When Gus was a teething puppy, his biting was terrible. Although he was being playfully, the bites hurt badly. My hands were bruised and covered in scratches. I received many suggestions to stop the behavoir. The one that worked the best was one I got off the internet (I can't remember the site): when the puppy bites you, hold his mouth shut firmly until he starts to wiggle or wimper. Your grip should not be hard enought to hurt him, but simply to make him uncomfortable and to make you the boss. Persistance and consistency is key. You cannot only do it when you've had enough, but every single time he bites. I've since enrolled our dog in obedience training and our trainer agrees with this method and does not allow her dogs to ever mouth her (licking is allowed). I think this is a smart idea. |
| I have had all types of dogs over the years, from German sheperds to labs to rotts, all of them have been rescued in one way or another, as far as the chewing goes you need to control what they chew and what they dont chew. Give him toys that is for him. As far as the biting goes, (now I know that some one is going to start shouting that the way I do it is cruel) When ever any of my dogs have bitten me I have bitten there ear, you may laugh but it works. At the moment we have a rottmix (buster 7 years), a husky/rottmix (tiger 18 months) and an OES (digby 14 months) when digby arrived 2 months ago he was for ever biting a chewing every thing in sight. Well within 3 weeks digby stopped biting and now gives kisses, when he is playing with our other dogs he knows that if he bites he will get bittin back. You have to draw a line when training dogs and stick to it if you let them get away with it once they will keep doing it and go further every time. When they are good they get rewarded when the are bad they are punished, I have NEVER used food as a punishment, (I mean by not giving them there food, which I have heard some people have done). If my dogs ever growled at me when they where eating when I first got them, I would hold there food bowl in my hand while they ate and stroked and talked with them. it would take a few times of doing this but in the end no more problem. I can take a bone away from my dogs with out them getting aggressive.
you have to get every one in your family to help train a dog, alot of the time you will find that you need to train the family members more than you will need to tran the dog. good luck |
Hi everyone! I want to thank you all for replying and for all of your wonderful advice. My Dudley has made such a change. He is so great now. He shows no more aggression at all and is wonderful with my 3 yr. old daughter. Although he is only 5 mths old, he seems to know that he needs to be gentle around her. I think the aggression worked itself out the older he got. He realized he didnt have a litter of 12 to fight for food with. He is the big 60 lb. teddy bear I had hoped for when I got him at 8 wks. I am soooo glad that I didnt give up on him and he on me. I would tell anyone that is having a difficult puppy stage to just hang in there and have patience. Puppy class also is an excellent way to start them on the right track. Thanks for all the help!  Sasha and Dudley |
| Sasha, we're having a similar. Our OES is 8 months old. When he gets disiplined he snarls and snaps. I'e pinched him with the pinch collar, growled in his face(it works pretty well) I wonder if this a is "puppy yjing" or should we be concered that we hav e a vicious pup on our hands. Any help? |
| I have a 11 week old OES, Cheyenne. She also had this behavior, my vet told us to place her on her back and hold her down until she relaxed. This lets the dog know that you are the ALPHA aka: BOSS. It worked great with our puppy, it is easier to correct this when the are little and you can hold them down. This is a submissive position with dogs and how they learn the order of the pack and at all times you must be the BOSS. Also this does not hurt them in any way. Good luck> Laurie |
| We have a 9 week old oes (Milkshake) who is biting and chewing everything. I am saying no firmly and holding his mouth as well. In response, he sometimes jumps and barks back at me. Is this behavior typical of the breed? Does this mean he is going to be an aggressive dog? We had a Shepherd for 13 years and did not want a breed who had biting tendencies. Are all oes puppies like this? |
| Thanks for the advice Fritzi, it was really informative and it appears you have had lots of experience to pass along.
Thanks!  |
| Thanks Marianne!
I haven't had the time recently to keep up with the forum postings, but frankly the number of postings on misbehaving puppies and teen sheepies is alarming. I am a volunteer with the New England Old English Sheepdog Rescue group, and the number of sheepies being surrendered to NEOESR rescue has risen probably close to 100% in the past year. I don't necessarily think it's because there is a rash of bad disposition OES, but rather due to a number of other factors. Folks are still buying puppies from pet stores (therefore puppy mills), the Internet (primarily puppy mills), back yard breeders (folks who usually only have one litter). The price of a puppy does not guarantee it's quality of breeding or the care taken in the early socialization of the pup. The early socialization (handling, manners training etc.) of puppies before they leave their mother, can have a significant effect on that dog's personality and behavior throughout its life. Puppies who are raised by novice breeders or puppy mills, who have not had initial handling and training, are likely to present an initial challenge. A compounding factor is that often they are sold and removed from the litter too early, and they miss even the discipline their mother would offer. Sorry to go on at length, but through working with OES Rescue, as well as in serving as a trainer for puppy obedience, I see a number of dogs that have started life on the wrong foot. Having a 30 lb puppy with annoying, destructive or aggressive activities is not acceptable, particularly if that puppy becomes an 80 lb adult. Some owners don't realize that a dog society is not a democracy -- someone, preferably with 2 legs, not 4, needs to be the alpha pack leader, set the rules and boundaries and consistently manage the needs of pack members. Clearly, I am a huge advocate of obedience training, preferably positive conditioning (often called clicker training) including establishing very clear "rules" from puppies' early life. I am also an advocate of anticipating situations that are likely to trigger negative behavior, and to have a remedy in mind. Further, it is very helpful to create situations where a dog can succeed rather than fail. Even with "problem" dogs (of all breeds) I have had a lot of success using a system of heavy rewards (for ANYthing done well), requiring a dog to work for any reward (food, a favorite toy, a favorite place on the floor, a cuddle session), and to NEVER allow a dog to successfuly challenge my alpha status. With many OES, I have found that withdrawing my attention, i.e., ignoring them, is actually a punishment in their eyes -- a short "time out" in an adjacent room, has worked for some. You'd think that my own dogs would be the best behaved creatures on earth -- HA! At least when they misbehave, I usually know what I have done that lets them think they can get away with it. It probably sounds like I run a boot camp, but my dogs are a pleasure to be with, behave well in most situations, and therefore are accepted in a wide range of activities. I see too many cases where dogs that have a history of bad behavior and are "banished" to a garage, tied outside, etc. It starts by finding a dog from a good, responsible breeder, then making an initial investment in time and training. OES are a herding breed -- being bossy, nipping at sheep, guarding "resources" and acting somewhat independently are part of the breed make up. Modifying these natural tendencies into acceptable family behavior is the challenge we all face. |
| Again I agree with your post..it is very disheartening to hear about people giving up on their dogs and banishing them to sheds or tying them up and living a life of banishment. The animals only get worse ...banishment is so terrible for these pack animals, very much like solitary confinement for humans. Of course I'm going off topic here, but have recently been saddened by a web site I viewed on chained dogs in cities. The pictures taken of these dogs was heart breaking. I'm sure they were all initially cute little puppies once, that became too much too handle for their owners.
Not to say that this post suggest anything of that nature is occuring here..again apologies for going off topic. You have made such a valid point however Fritzi regarding it is very important to establish the rules when the puppy is young and I wish you the best of luck finding homes for all those that need them. Take heart everyone,it is possible to change a dog's disruptive behavior but you must be consistent and rewards are important. Shaggy, my former pound dog was "horrible" when I first brought her home. She was not housebroken, barked all the time, chewed everything up including custom made blinds..eeks! Nipped kids , growled at people and disliked small dogs intensely. First doggy obedience class, she failed miserably. Second one..this time with a trainer with a completely different method she flourished! She eventually, believe it or not, became a therapy dog and years later we were hired by the Humane Society to provide pet talks to the public and educating people about dog behavior. We visited hundreds of schools and seniors centers and I trusted her completely.Hers is a success story but it took a lot of work and lots of love. So don't give up or be disheartened but just like kids ..if you love them you need to let them know you are the one in control. Best of luck to you. |
| Our OES was always very large from the start at the end he was a muscular 140lbs, he never really bit but would growl sometimes and bark alot, we didn;'t want to do choke chain or anything that would hurt him, this may sound funny but we found an article that said to try this and we did. When the dog performs a bad behavior aka growling take a cup of cool water and while hes still doing it splash him in the face and say bad dog. They usually snap right oput of it and after a few minutes and some drying are ready to kiss so tell them how good and sweet they are. Our dog was only splashed 3 times before he learned and after that all you had to say was "do you want it?" and show him a glass tilted at his face as if you were going to splash him. He calmed down immediately and then just tell him how good he is with treats and lots of petting. |
| I have an 8 month old OES named Vivi. After trying to train her ourself, my husband and I have decided to enroll her in training. I don't know how to train her to "tell" us she needs to go out. She doesn't bark to go out, she will walk over to the door and stand and stare at it. If no one is there to let her out, she goes in the house. Sometimes she will just go right in front of us and then she runs! Yesterday she pooped and pottied several times in the house! We take her out during the day, then she comes in and pees in the house! It is like she has spurts of being potty trained, she'll do good for a while, then shes right back to going in the house. Everything we have tried has not worked. Any advice would be great, she is staining our carpet! |
| We went through the exact same frustrations with our OES when she was your dog's age. We could not understand how we had brought her outside right prior to her accidents. Our female pup is now almost eleven months old and we have seen a complete turn around. Stay patient because it's worth it; having her in the house with the family is where she belongs.
Even after the potty training issue, we felt frustrated because our OES would not settle; she constantly searched out the kids socks and my daughter's hair bands and would chew them until I'd catch her in the act. I'm a working Mum with two kids (one's a toddler), a big house and a hubby and at the end of the day, I wanted my sheepie to come in and hang out with me and a cuppa tea. Well, she roamed and fussed and drove me me nuts with her constant anxiousness. This has worked itself out also. I bring her in and we hang out all the time. Now, while I fix dinner or lunch or stand at the counter endlessly, instead of wandering and finding trouble, she lays at my feet and gets up when the kids go charging by. She helps my toddler find his big sister when playing hide and seek. Our OES is awesome and perhaps she needed some time to adjust to all the love she was feeling; she's so totally attached to me and the kids and maybe struggled with her overwhelming desire to connect with us. This sounds a little over the top - psycho analysis... whatever the reasons for it - it passed and she's a doll! |
Kerrie wrote: I don't know how to train her to "tell" us she needs to go out. She doesn't bark to go out, she will walk over to the door and stand and stare at it. If no one is there to let her out, she goes in the house.
Thanks gosh I am not the only one that has that problem. Shanti does the same. He doesn’t ask for outside (sometimes…). 
At first I thought it was my “bad training”. When he came home, almost the first months rained. So I thought it was confused to him to focus on only 1 spot. I started with newspapers, moved them outside so he could smell his pee, but the other day he has to go inside as was raining. Now, he is 19 m/o  and during the night, sometimes he pees inside. Sometimes he comes to my room at 3 am and starts to do noises (kind of low barking) to wake me up so I could open the patio door for him.
I know that dogs try to “hold” when they are inside the house. Shanti sometimes does not when I go out. Regarding the 3 am “task” what I did was realizing that at that hour he would pee.. So if I were up, just listening to the sound I will shout NO, with a very disappointment voice and walk him to the door and open to him. But still don’t know how/what to do when I am out the reach. Also, at least during the night, I read to not give him water at least 1 hour before "bedtime". Hope this little advice will help. Try to catch her during the act and show her where she has to pee… I think she will try to tell you in her own way when she hast to go out. Good luck dani |
| I'm the same! - Woof will make a low bark most nights between 3 and 5 am to say "let me outside!" - I'm getting a little older and need to do the same myself most nights, so I put up with it!
Some people remove thier sheepies water at night. I don't - not least bcause the fuss Woof makes when he runs out of water at night is far worse than getting up to let him out! At least he asks..... |
| Thank you everyone for your responses. I love this dog and dare to hope she can be potty trained. Again this morning though, she went twice in the house. This puzzles me, when I take her out to potty, she doesn't want to go, she keeps trying to get back in the house, but I gently pull her leash and get her back on the grass. I repeat this several times until she finally goes, then we come in. I don't know why she tries to get in the house if she has to go potty! But we do this routine everyday. Sometimes when we are outside, she gives me a "courtesy squat", telling me, ok I know we're out here to potty, there you go! This week, she has just been horrible  She starts her training class this Thursday, but until then I was thinking of putting a doggy diaper on her while she is in the house. Has anyone tried this? My husband thinks she will chew it off. One more question, does anyone's sheepie hop like a rabbit? I've never seen a dog hop so much, she hops sideways, forward, backward. She's the biggest clown! |
Kerrie wrote: she keeps trying to get back in the house, but I gently pull her leash and get her back on the grass. I repeat this several times until she finally goes, then we come in.
Shanti also loves to be inside. Have you tried to place on the grass a newspaper with her pee? Dogs supposed to do pee when they smell it.  Worked with Shanti
[One more question, does anyone's sheepie hop like a rabbit? I've never seen a dog hop so much, she hops sideways, forward, backward. She's the biggest clown!] At least Shanti does!!  |
| Hi I was just given a puppy 2 days ago. I was told he is between 7 and 9 weeks old. I was also told he is a Rat Terrier and Chiahua mix. I have two children and worry about him being aggresive, when we hold him and pet the back of his neck or his belly on the sides he growls like crazy and even raises his lips. I am very worried about this any advice would be great. |
| Hey sasha im sorry about ur troubles
I have the same problem with my maltese when ever he has a piece of meat or a toy that he shouldnt have he growls crazily and does not let us take it its very scary.[/b] |
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