Shakes & back end problems?
 She was groomed yesterday and after a few hours on the table I lifted her off and it took awhile to get her legs. Had to massage them so she could get going again. Also the last month or so after she has been lying down she struggles to get up, when she does her back leg starts to shake, more like a tremour. The tremour goes all the way up the leg then have the same thing happen in the rest of her body just standing there shaking uncontrolably. I know she is getting elderly and she has been on glucosamine but does anyone else have any ideas as to what I can use to help her a bit. Do you think she might need something stronger, say from a vet like Rimadyl or is there something else I can supplement her with that is a more natural product.
Like to also know what product others use for older dogs? I am worried about her and if it gets any worse I will go to the vet |
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| Barkley and I are keeping our fingers crossed (well he's crossing his paws), that a trip to the vet won't be necessary |
| It is probably one of two things, pain or myelopathy. Could be both.
Here is a post you might want to read, about testing for myelopathy: http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?p=59072#59072 WillowSprite suggests "cerebellar abiotrophy, or cerebellar ataxia (the symptom)" in the same thread, although I have no idea what the prevalence is of this compared with arthritis and myelopathy. All that said, I'd try a pain reliever first no matter what the tests. Our Jake was on pain meds for 5 years due to a combination of HD and DM. The NSAID he was on caused some tummy problems. When we tried the Rimadyl, he had liver problems. so we went off the meds and very soon (days) he was unable to get off the floor. Three days after putting him back on the NSAID (Piroxicam) and CytoTec (to protect his tummy) he was back to his "old" self, no pun intended. Good luck, and keep us posted! |
| It's not cerebellar abiotrophy, it affects young dogs, and they NEVER live to be 11. They almost never live to be older than 1 yr.
I would ask the vet to check blood pressure, and blood sugar levels.... Dehydration as well can cause those symptoms.... Good luck, I hope she's feeling better soon and that it is something simple to remedy. |
| Well, I just found an article that contradicts that specifically for OES, but I still would not expect an 11 yr old to have it.
http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10 ... 0.217.1162 |
| Thanks Ron, I just did that test on her for Myelopathy as can now rule that out.
Stacey she had a full blood profile done about 4 months ago as the vet wanted to make sure she was OK to knock out for surgery to remove an abcess, so I can rule out any problems there. When she is up and finally on the move there is no wobbling in her gait so I can also rule out any cerebal problems. I am now leaning towards "pain" and maybe a degeneration of the hip area due to old age and her being an overactive dog and jumper most of her life. So maybe a vet visit to verify this and pain meds to help her? |
| Actually, unfortunately there is NO way to diagnose CA for sure until an autopsy is done.
However, I'm quite sure it's not that. It just doesn't happen that way and at that age. I would just go to the vet and see what they have to say. |
| So sorry to hear about Kelsey. If it is an arthritis issue, and you are concerned about the side effects of pain meds, or want something in addition to them, you might want to look into canine acupuncture. I know several people who've had positive results from it, when they had run out of options with traditional vet medicine. One dog had no use of her back legs, and regained 80% with acupuncture and massage. Another (my vet's mother's dog) also had positive results.
I hope Kelsey is feeling better soon. |
| If you've ruled out the other things, I'd think it could be pain. Pain can cause them to tremble or shake. My sheepie-mix would do this after a muscle pull and also hang her head low and run/walk this way. She had them a few times during her lifetime. Please keep us posted on how Kelsey is doing. |
| Poor Kelsey! Getting old is the pits. Sometimes I have trouble standing up and getting going, too!
Sounds like the start of arthritis to me, too. We have Drez on Metacam as an anti-inflammatory/pain reducer, along with Robaxin (muscle relaxer) and Flexicose (a liquid chondroitin/glucosamine supplement). She has her good days and her bad days. She'll be 13 in August, so I don't think I can expect much else. Ron, thanks for the tip about the feet. I've noticed outside that when she tries to run (she still doesn't remember she CAN'T), she sometimes doesn't bring her foot back up but lands and tries to walk/run on her knuckles and knocks herself off-balance. Need to read up on degenerative myelopathy now. Give Kelsey some extra belly rubs and ear scratches from me! Chris |
| Thanks everyone for your suggestions/advice. I hate it too that they get old, loosing one only 8 months ago I am so paranoid about anything happening to her. I know at the moment something is not right and I just want to see her comfortable in her older age.
Drezzie's Mom the Metacam and Robaxin is there any side effect with those pain meds? I know Rimadyl can cause some problems as ron has stated with his boy. Kelsey has always had a history/reactions to drugs and a sensitive tummy so I have to be extremely careful what she takes. Oscar's Mom thanks for that too, I forgot about accupunture and if I get an idea from the vet as to what is wrong with her that might be an option to look at too. Thanks guys you are all so supportive and helpful  |
| Is the glucosamine supplement combined with chondroitin? I had a vet tell me before that Glucosamine wasn't effective without the 2 together. Since Rimadyl was tough on the liver, we used Deramaxx for our passed senior and while it was easier on his liver it was harsh on his stomach. In the US there is also some type of injectable meds that you go regularly for that has had good results with arthritic dogs, I'm sorry but I don't know what it's called. |
| They sometimes give Adequan shots for arthritis. Here's a link from the mfr. http://www.adequancanine.us/
We have used the Metacam for musle pulls with no side effects but have never used it for more than about a week. |
| Hi Lisa,
I'm so sorry to hear about Kelsey. My Shaggy started getting leg shakes in her old age and started avoiding the kitchen lino as a result, as she couldn't get up. Her legs would slide under her like those of little Bambi on ice. Glucosamine was used at first, then eventually the vet placed her on Medecam sp?, which proved highly effective. It relieved pain and discomfort and I remember her being on it for some time as the vet would have large bottles for me that I would pick up periodically. It came in liquid form and was easy to give. My memory is dim as to how long she was on it but I'm sure it was months. I also didn't remove my carpet from the living room until after she passed as they allowed her more grip than a bare floor. Hard to do if you have laminate in your house as I seem to remember from your photos . You may think about getting a large area rug for the place she most frequents. I am sending you and Kelsey lots of well wishes you way and please keep us posted as to how she's doing. Marianne and the boys (who send sloppy sheepie kisses her way). |
| With our Big Bad Bart we used Entrophin (sp?) as a daily pain med in the last bit of his life. It seemed to help. He was checked for everything...no one could come up with a diagnosis, same symptoms except he started losing bowel control as well. We thought it was neurological, as he really seemed to not be aware of his backend...it still bothers me to this day that no name was placed on his ailment! Wish I had known of this site back then...I could have used the advice. He was only 9 though...
My childhood sheepie Raggs lived to be 14 and he was on the above mis-spelled arthritis pain medication for quite awhile...it really helped him! I agree with getting some sort of grippy carpet as well...Bart had a couple of scary incidents on linolium...I kept a yoga mat around for emergencies...it was a lifesaver!!!
Hugs to Kelsey!!!! |
VerveUp wrote: Is the glucosamine supplement combined with chondroitin? I had a vet tell me before that Glucosamine wasn't effective without the 2 together. Since Rimadyl was tough on the liver, we used Deramaxx for our passed senior and while it was easier on his liver it was harsh on his stomach. In the US there is also some type of injectable meds that you go regularly for that has had good results with arthritic dogs, I'm sorry but I don't know what it's called.
As far as I know the glucosamine and chondroitin together are what is recommended. |
| Thanks everyone, I am taking to the vets early next week (sunday here today) so best to get some sort of diagnoses and maybe talk about pain meds if it is arthritic.
Thanks verveUp, I have only been using Glucosamine and not one with chondroitin, so I will get some with both init and start her on that. Gosh have had some wonderful advice, have had elderly dogs but she is the first that has this tremour/shaking episodes when she stands. So think it might be pain related due to soreness. I have a huge wool rug in the family room that takes most of the floor space, BUT, she always seems to go and lay on the tiles  Looks like I need to go and buy some more paw wax that I use to use on Peppa when she got old for traction. |
| Lisa, Drez has been on Metacam for about a year now. No side effects. It's in liquid form, just fill a little syringe and squeeze it into her mouth. She was on Rimadyl for a while after her hip surgery, didn't do anything either for or against her, so we took her off it. Tried Deramaxx - terrible!! She got sick almost immediately from it.
The Robaxin is a muscle relaxer. Haven't noticed any side effects from it either. Check out www.flexicose.com. That's the chondroitin/glucosamine we have Drez on. It was recommended to me by Mandy (Maxmm), and I really do think it's made a difference. It's in liquid form, you just add a very small amount directly on their food. Good luck! Let us know how you make out at the vet. Chris |
| Thanks so much Chris, will look into it. Hopefully they sell it in OZ. If not looks like I can order it online |
Just wondering if Big Bad Bart was exhibiting pain? My Maggie, who is 12, is having the same problem. The shaking has gone on for awhile, but now she doesn't seem to want to get up. Then when she does get up, she doesn't want to walk, but once she gets going she seems OK. Sometimes she is unaware of the fact that she is pooping, it just falls out of her but at other times she's normal. She doesn't seem to be in pain though and I'm worried that there won't be anything the vet can do for her. What do you all think?  |
| Hi and welcome to the forum; sorry you're finding us because of a problem.
It sounds like at least Degenerative Myelopathy (the pooping) and perhaps hip pain. Check out this thread: http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=5711 Also, the pooping we found to be exacerbated by the use of the food the vet gave us, prescription W/D. http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?p=2767#2767 http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?p=1545#1545 Does any of this sound familiar to you? |
| Lisa,
If you need to use the Deramaxx or rimadyl for Kelsey you can give her milk thistle to help support her liver. Beau took Deramaxx for 2 years and we gave him 2 thistle am and 2 pm. |
Thanks for that information about Milk Thistle, at the moment we are trying a natural supplement and it is working wonders. So not needing stronger pain meds at the moment. But nice to know about that for later on if pain meds are required. Trying on advice from the vet a supplement and the shaking has stopped, so looks like that is helping her at the moment. 
NZ green lipped mussel supplement.
You can have a read about it and it takes you also to a link on a product called "seatone" that is what she is on, 125 capsuals in the bottle and only 2 a day for her and it is working really well for her, new girl in such a short time on the supplement
http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=6785 |
| Lisa, I'm so glad she's better! And thanks for the link.
Holly |
| Glad to hear she has something that is making her feel better. Poor girl We used to use Cosequin which I believe had Glucosamine and Chondroitin combined. I've also heard that that they need to be taken together. We also took Katrina for Acupuncture/Acupressure treatments and chiropractic adjustments. We have a regular/Holistic vet so she uses a variety of things in addition to regular veterinary care. We also had some different nosodes but I don't remember what they were. My mom swears by Cod liver oil for arthritis in people and dogs. Sounds like you are doing everything you can. She's one lucky girl to be in your family. I hope you have many healthy happy years ahead with her. |
| Hi,
I now remember that I also gave Shaggy, Milk Thistle, and once read some info on a web site regarding arthritis that green mussels were recommended as a good food source too. I have some in the freezer for Panda. Sending belly rubs to the furballs. Marianne and the boys |
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