Time to move
 Received the following note in my mailbox last evening when I got home from work.
Quote: George,
Your two dogs have been barking incessantly from the early hours of the morning into the afternoon and evening. The problem is that my daughters now share a room in the back of the house and they have come into my room crying because they've either been woken up early in the morning or they've been abruptly awoken from a nap. Also I'm 6 months pregnant and I wake up frequently due to barking. We are asking you kindly to not leave your dogs out all day long. As a family, we are not able to function with the noise. We don't mind some barking, but it is very difficult to not be able to follow your daily routine in your own home. Their house adjoins mine to the west; The dogs are penned in a 1000sf area along my east property line - 60+ feet away from their house. The dogs are never left out before 6am (7 on weekends) and are always in before 9pm. Never left out on rainy days or when temp is above 80° or below 30° When left out, it's usually for 9 hrs while I'm at work. Bitchey neighbor! New Year's resolution: time to start looking for a place in the country with some acreage where the guys can run freely. In the meantime, they'll just have to stay inside all day. I refuse to use a bark collar. |
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| I don't blame your neighbor, a barking dog can leave even a dog lover's nerves frayed, let alone a pregnant mother.
I would keep them in when you are not home and limit their time outside to when you can supervise to tell them to be quiet. Good luck finding a new home out in the country!  |
| I live in the country and still NEVER leave my dogs outside when I am not home. When we are at work and school during the day they are inside...ususally sleeping.... rain or shine.
Leaving dogs outsdie unsupervised is never safe. In the country you run the risk of having coyotes or stray dogs come visit, or they can get caught in something and die (like a collar on a fence) people can come by and let them out, or steal them. A bored dog is a barky, destructive dog. They can get into habits like digging, chewing, and nuisence barking that becomes the norm for them that will still continue when you are home. And even though my closest neighbors are 200 feet away they would still be annoyed by non-stop barking. Hey, I hear the dog 2 km down the road barking at nite. I wouldn't, but some people would call Animal Control just to check if everything was OK. Some folks, not you, George, leave their dogs chained outside or in a small pen day and nite. I WISH people would call the authorities on them when their dogs bark out of broedom or unhappiness. It is just cruel. |
The man who lives behind me has a rottweiler that he keeps in a pen day and night--rain and shine--freezing weather. As near as I've been able to tell he never lets him out. And he's become a very vicious dog. One day he got loose and I was out in the yard raking leaves. I looked up and there he was ears pinned back. He never growled, but luckily I was right in front of my back door. I eased into my house and he lunged--hitting his face on my glass door. The dog is mean, because the man is an ***. Until I get a fence up, neither Barkley, nor my granddaughter can play safely in the backyard.  |
| Oh George,
The whole situation stinks. I'm sorry you going through this. I might try to make nice with the neighbor. Apologize for their family's discomfort; Explain you had no idea there was a problem and that you'll work diligently with your neighbor and your dogs to make the situation good for everyone. Ask them for help in figuring out when and why they are barking. Now that you've unruffled the feathers a little bit, it will be less likely that they will call the authorities, and more likely they'll call you when there's a problem. Then you can deal with the situation in any way you like. Perhaps bark collar training? Perhaps they bark when they see something in particular, so a solid fence in one area might help? Tell the neighbors to lump it, that dogs bark and it's during the day, and tough. Move if you want to. It's all up to you. Good luck. |
| I'm really sorry you are in this pickle George!! It's a tough one!! Having been on both side of this stickey wicket I can sympathize with both of you. When I lived in the Mobile home park I had a neighbor who had a dog who barked all day everyday, reasonable hours but the problem was I was working nights and so their reasonable hours were MY SLEEPING hours!!
How about the citronella bark collar? It's very kind and gentle. Unfortunately barking dogs are kinda like whining kids; our own are not nearly as annoying as someone elses. GOOD LUCK!!!!! |
| Neighbors and dogs are definitely a situation that requires managing. I think Ron's advice is really good. I moved into a new place in April and my neighbor's dog (a standard poodle) barks all the time -- when he leaves, when he comes home, when she is alone, when anything gets her attention. I felt bad for the doggie and slightly annoyed by the barking (one night she barked literally all night long! he must've been on an overnight date), but I decided to ignore the issue with my neighbor because it would probably cause friction without solving the problem. I figured my choice to live in a center city rowhouse means living with lots of noises -- traffic, people and dogs. Turns out I can hear his television, radio, alarm clock and even when he clears his throat. . . Well, after I got Maggie, she barked in her crate the first few nights and wouldn't you know that my neighbor was all like "oh, I heard Maggie last night. She was really barking. . .is everything ok?" I don't think he was really soliciting after her health, just making a pointed observation that she was loud. The nerve!!! So I explained that she was having some adjustment issues and that I was relieved that since I can hear so much on his side (barking, tv, etc.), that I figured he would be understanding of Maggie's barking. I went on to say that I was more worried about my neighbors on the other side since I never hear a peep out of them. . . The loud neighbor and I then agreed to not mind each other's noise. Maggie has actually quieted down considerably in the past month which is good for everyone involved. . . |
| It's tough to deal with neighbours, but being where she was a few years ago now, pregnant and a toddler...naps are extrememly precious to one's sanity. The last house we lived in, we couldn't see the house, but our backyards were all attached so to speak, even tho she was exactly a neighbour, their dog was left out all day and barked at everything all day. i walked the neighbourhood to figure out which house but couldn't, so I ended up calling animal control officers, at least the dog would be safer and perhaps helped since I didn't know the circumstances of why they didn't spend anytime with the dog. Anyways, I think they found the home, either talked to them or removed the dog...I'm not sure but the neighbourhood was peacful again, and I can't say forsure but it's possible I saw them walking their dog after that..(someone else said it was the home owners).
If your dogs like Kongs, or big meaty bones to chew one, give them something to keep active. Perhaps you could hire a responsible teenager to walk the dogs...if we go away for the whole day I have our neighbour's daughter walk Remy. Or we go to doggydaycare if I know it's all day being away without being able to come home. Remy barks alot if left alone outside, since she can see for miles, any dog walking along will set her off. Happily tho, I am a stay at home mom and we always stop her before she has been a nusience, and I regularly ask my neighbours if she is ever a bother to them. You never know when you may really need their help, we are so grateful to have had their help many times, and we help them too...that's what neigbours do... Also when we go to the country to visit my family which is a 3 hour drive, we stopped spending the night...and chose to drive home (that's 6 hours of driving just to have supper) because of their dogs. They bark ALL night long, at coyotes, the wind, whatever moves, we get zero sleep and has strained our relations with them, to the point we rarely visit. We did ask them to pen the dogs at night, but since it doesn't bother them, they won't pen the dogs. It's worse then nails on a chalkboard for us, the dogs are quiet all day...but at night they turn into patrol dogs and won't settle down. They have a Keeshond, and a shepherd/lab/Keeshond/rotti/??? cross. Anyways good luck, I hope you can find some sort of peacful resolution. |
| I think Ron gave some good advice too. It's much easier to just accept the blame (whether you think you deserve it or not!) and try to make it better than start a feud. I gotta say, if I got that note in my mailbox, I'd be pretty angry too. Have they ever mentioned anything to you before? Do you not see them often? I would think it may have been easier to take if it was in person so you could discuss it rather than us an accusatory note.
Where I live, I'm in the middle of 2 houses with 2 dogs each. My dogs are in the best position because they can investigate on each side of the fence but when they're all out at once, the dogs on the ends go crazy barking because they see each other across our yard. My dogs instigate by running back and forth to each fenceline and getting everyone all excited. There's really no room for anyone to complain since everybody's involved! |
| Hi George,
First of all I'm very sympathetic to your plight and a note like that makes you feeling a bit at a loss of what to do. I didn't think her note was rude and although I wouldn't be happy about recieving it either, she did refer to you by name and used the word kindly in her note. What would leave you upset is what options do you have? That would explain any feelings of anger you might have. It puts you in a position of having to deal with this problem and it's not the easiest solution. With toddlers in the house they may be awakened a few mins after 7am (when you leave for work) and while she may be the most patient person in the world this may be starting to get to her and being pregnant she is probably wanting even the tiniest bit of extra rest. So again, you have to ask how can I make this better for everyone. Moving may not be the quickest solution and you may find yourself in a neighborhood where the note left is not as politely said. So again, what to do? I had a similar situation that occurred to me in my neighborhood and although I was really upset at the time I'm glad I was able to keep my temper in check and had some time to think about it. Here's what happened to me: Neighbor of 10 years complained and went on and on , berating me for allowing my cat to use his yard as a litter box. I was sympathetic and completely understood but he went on and on which is what made me upset. I was furious for days about it and like you thought of moving, or putting a huge fence in the front yard which in retrospect was not the best possible option. Instead I waited until I calmed down and really tried to look at it from his perspective. With my previous cats this had never been a problem before but for some reason one of my cats started visiting his yard frequently. What could I do? I tried all options even mentioning that a garden center had a motion detector spray specifically designed to keep cats out of the yard, citronella sprinkled around the site was another option, and a host of other things. I really didn't want to start using a litter box in my house again as I have a cat door and the cats go and come as they please. What it came down to (realizing that not everyone likes cats) and admitting that a cat going in my yard (especially if you don't have one yourself is bad). Is that it was my responsibility and while I may not like using a cat box in my house they were my cats. It was up to me to come up with the solution. To appease him and while it was difficult as I was still really peeved at his reaction, I also knew that I had a host of other animals (my dogs) that he had never complained about. I realized that my lush garden now filled with numerous plants had no visible dirt for the cats to dig in. The solution was digging up the garden. The cat no longer visited his yard and he was very happy and we've become great friends again. The same cat sat on my other neighbors car once and scratched it and while he wasn't upset when he told me, but wanted me to know - I bought him a car buffer machine thingie and knocked on his door. He refused it and was very happy that I had made an offer of it. he said nooo keep it but I'll borrow it from time to time. In a nutshell, our relationship too has not been strained due to what my pets have done. It's important to keep the peace with the neighbors. So here's what I would do...swallow your pride and go knock on her door and apologize even if you think she may be overstating how much barking they are doing. Ask her to please write down the times they bark and if possible what may have set them off. (The Animal Control officers in our area ask people to do this when they complain of barking dogs.) This will do two things - It will make you and her aware of how many times it actually occurs. You may also think of leaving out one of those voice activated tape machines which records sounds and see how often they do bark. Next, while appearing sympathetic try to work out a solution with her. A dog walker perhaps? I don't mean that you should brown nose either, but if you appear that you are sympathetic and are trying to come up with a solution she isn't as liable as going to phone Animal Control on you either. Admitedly, she had more guts leaving you a note than just calling them anonomously. She probably didn't visit you in person either as she may have had to bring the toddlers in tow and wasn't sure about how you would react. Her solution was to leave you a note and address you by name. If the situation was reversed you may have done the same thing. I viewed the note as her letting you know she liked you but please ,"George can you do something." So there's my solution...go knock on her door and try to work it out and appear sympathetic and find a solution you both can live with. Let us know what happens and best of luck to you. Marianne and the boys |
Hi George  ,first off let me tell you my issues w/ my collie.I ahve a 3yr old collie named Jagger,he has been the most loving,sweet,timid fur baby anyone can ask for.Altho he BARKS!!!!!Like theres no tomrrow,I love him too death.He is good when he is inside our home(he is never left outside alone none of my dogs are one reason IM too afraid someone will steal them)Once he goes outside this dog BARKS!BARKS!It even makes me wanna call the police on him!!LOL!!Seriously,so I finally decided too muzzle him,just one of those nylon blk muzzle,altho he can still bark,its not as loud,and I know he hates it cuz when he is barking like a nut and I bring it out he puts his head down,and im NOT saying muzzle your dog,Im just telling you my experiemce.Altho the muzzle does work,I cant always be right on it,ya know what I mean?Ok now heres the rest of the story.We are remodeling our home,so we had too move the kennel area into the front(I HATE IT IN THE FRONT!! )anyways,thank goodness everyone who has come too our home is friends of the family(we are in drywall biz)well one day Jagger was outside going potty,and I heard him just making this aweful bark/growl noise I look outside and the heating guy was going too pet him thinking "oh how beautiful I love collies"well Jagger bite the crap out of this guys hand  .By the time i got Jagger into the house,the guy was laughing,cuz he was wearing gloves and when i looked at Jagger he had the guys work gloves in his mouth and just ripping it too shreds!!The guy had a nice cut/gash in his hand,and of course being a nurse i helped him out.Well a friend of mine whose a capenter told me this wasnt Jaggers 1st time biteing someone.i was floored!!He fr some reason has become VERY protective of us,and allows no one too enter our home.So I have too put him away for ppl too come in.However if we go over too friends/family he is fine,and is wonderful w/ others.I guess Im telling you my story,too let you know that leaving a dog especially a big dog outside all day isnt good.Dogs can change personalities,for one reason or another.Also I do know Jagger is a barker and when we moved in i went too our neighbor and said "Hi Im Tanya,I ahve a collie who is an excessive barker,so please any time you get irritated w/ him PLEASE call me or come over".They were so happy and pleased I was honest and I realized the problem,and if im outside w/ jagger and he has his muzzle on the neighbor guy always yells'TAKE THAT MUZZLE OFF HIM HE ISNT BOTHERING US!!"That makes me feel better,but I still feel better if I atleast make an effort too calm his barking. I think you should make peace w/ the neighbors,and invite them too call any time they feel irritated w/ the noise. I should also add my neighbors have NO dogs or KIDS!!!the guy drinks beer from 7am til 9pm,and the family that lived here for 5yrs was an 87yr old lady so my poor neighbors are getting all kinds of noise now!!LMAO!!! Id just respect your neighbors,maybe take over a nice plant(Lucky Bamboo is awesome for a peace offering)and just go from there.I hope all works out soon!!Take care |
| Geez guys thanks for all the extended posts, understanding, sympathy and advice. Tanya. your mention of your collie is really the point of why I'm so defensive in this situation. Yes the neighbors are nice neighbors, although I think she is a bit too touchy about the barking; her husband has told me it isn't that bad. But I understand her sensitivity, especially as pointed out by you gals about the pregnancy. But getting back to the barking collie, some of you may recall that I too had a collie that was an "incessant barker" and gave him away to a couple with 5 acres in the country after the police were at my house three times and warned me the next time I would get a citatation to appear in court. I am surrounded by 5 neighbors, two of them complain, the other three say the dogs are no bother. From my knowledge what really sets them off are dogs wondering in the neighborhood off leash, in fact one of these wonderers regularly come into my neighbor's yard to the east and does her business in his yard.!
My collie was not dependably house broken that he could stay inside for more than 4 hours. I am determined that I will never give up a dog again because of a neighbor complaining about his barking. I have been told that all herding dogs will become barkers if left outside all day. So for the present I began today to leave the guys inside all day. Things went well, when I came home I took them for a long walk. When I left them outside before I left for work and when I came home from work, I stayed outside with them while they did their business and there was no barking. Perhaps I have the wrong idea - thinking that big dogs belong outside, are happier outside and don't want to be inside all day? I have the impression that many of you regularly leave your dogs inside all day when you're gone. Fortunately Barney and Maggie have shown none of the destructive behavior reported in other posts; in fact there seems to be little evidence of activity having been taking place; I suspect they spend much of their time sleeping. They don't have the run of the house, they are confined to my large country kitchen. So maybe that's the answer. As to moving, admittedly that may be extreme, except that I would be using this as excuse to realize a long standing dream of my retirement years. But the point you all make is that even if we live in the country leaving the guys run outside all day would not be in their best interest. As for talking to the neighbor, we went down that road before with Laddie; at this point I don't think my conversations would carry much credibility - Yes, it's my problem and I have to solve it. Again thanks, I knew I could count on you all. George |
George wrote: Perhaps I have the wrong idea - thinking that big dogs belong outside, are happier outside and don't want to be inside all day? I have the impression that many of you regularly leave your dogs inside all day when you're gone. Fortunately Barney and Maggie have shown none of the destructive behavior reported in other posts; in fact there seems to be little evidence of activity having been taking place; I suspect they spend much of their time sleeping. They don't have the run of the house, they are confined to my large country kitchen. So maybe that's the answer.
George It's not necessarily the "wrong" idea, they are herding dogs, and when used as working farm dogs are often never let in the house. Barn maybe. However, OES are very much family dogs too, and I personally believe they are happier in their home, with their family as much as possible. I would worry more that unhappy neighbors may do something to harm your dogs. I think if a dog is used to farm life outdoors, then that is what he is most likely happy with. However, a dog that is used to being a part of the home and family would likely feel anxiety when left alone outdoors, unable to protect their "herd" or family and home. It sounds as though your new routine is going to work great where all are concerned |
| George, I personlly just have a thing about Babies left outside all day..To many things can happen...... Dr in El Paso contacted me wanting to adopt 2 Babies.... Had a helper do the home check .Also he came over to her house to visit to see how he reacted to her 2 Babies in action.....Beautiful home with a 6 foot fence........ But, the Babies would have left alone outside all day.....I don't think so!!!!!!!!!! So he is putting in a doggy door.......Solved the problem.......... Maybe that will help your situation......Kaye, Second Chance OES REscue |
Kaye Thats a great idea.!!! Could solve the proublem 
George they would have the best of both worlds. What do you think???? |
| I love our dog door. It gives the dogs the freedom they desire. Also gives them the ability to come and go as they please. I cannot wait until our blockwall is completed and the dogs can use the dog door again.
I have to go out with them and make sure they don't take off into our neighbors yard. The don't like to do their business with me looking on. I don't blame them...lol I'd say they spend most of their days inside and just go out to go potty. |
| Hi Again George,
I don't blame you for thinking the way you do as I wasn't aware of the history of your previous Collie. I remember viewing pics of your yard once and the doggie door may not work for you as if I remember correctly your fence isn't that high. In the dog run it is probably much higher so if the dogs had access to going in and out at will they may more in danger with a short fence in your yard. The alternative is a brisk walk in the morning before going to work and then leaving them indoors. I do with all three of mine (no crates) and have had no problem with this. Just means I'm a bit more diligent in placing shoes in the closet and my counters are clean. You're right they pace or adjust themselves after your lifestyle. Not once has Merlin, Blue or Panda tried to follow me down the stairs when I leave for work. It's a different story on a Saturday or Sunday or when I return home. No matter what I say they race down the stairs to the front door at other times of the day in anticipation of a walk. At 8 am when I leave for work however, they have learned that they don't come with me. Speaking of sleeping when you are at work, I do believe that happens too. As a teacher I'm off during the school breaks and have had the opportunity to watch them on days I would normally be working such as the Easter, Spring, Summer and Winter break. Lazy bums...they all sleep during the day and become active at 3 pm when I normally arrive home. Until this year when I was posted at a New School I used to go home at lunch and let them out for a bathroom break. I haven't been able to do that this year but now that they are used to being in the house when I'm gone - there has been no accidents. I just make sure I feed them as soon as I wake up and give them time for their bathroom duties before I leave the house 2 hrs later. Groan means I get up 1 hr earlier but sometimes you gotta make adjustments with "kids". Been thinking of your dilemna and hope you come up with a solution that will work for you. keep us posted! Marianne and the boys |
Hey george!!Yeah I ahve had 2 collies and both have been huge barkers!  My 1st collie once he got about 4yrs old he was finally well trained,walked w/o a leash,stopped when i stopped and the barking was only when someone was at he door!! However w/ jagger he was in such a state of mess when i got him (being from a puppy mill w/ a untreated broken growth plate)I think alot of his is mental issues and i WILL help him relax on the barking.God love our hearding dogs!!  However most ppl know collies can be relentless barkers IF not trained and worked w/.Ill never give a dog up due too barking.I beleave in respecting my neighbors,BUT it has too both ways.I think a doggie door is a good answer,just as long as you live in a low crime neighborhood,and have some sort of alarm system. Please let us know how it all turns out!! Tanyathenurse |
| Presently, leaving them inside all day is working. The doggie door assumes that dogs will come in when I'm not at home. My guys would rather be outside regardless of the weather (except hot weather). They have an 8' x 10' shed and a large insulated doghouse they can go in to get out of the rain or cold. I let them out one day last month to do their business in 10° weather and I had to go out and bring them in. If it's raining, they just lay out in the rain. (Dumb dogs!) When they come in Maggie lets me dry her off; Barney would rather play with the towell.
As for adjusting to my schedule: I amazed at how well they do whether my day is scheduled from 5:30am to 2:30 pm, 8 - 4:30, or 3:30 - midnight. The roughest schedule is late one day and early the next. The union contract requires a minimum of 8 hrs between shifts. By the time I get home and let the dogs out, then settle them down, I'll get about 4 hrs sleep. Fortunately I only get that a couple of times a year, but have one this Wed-Thurs. As for moving to the country, that would be after retirement (2/07) and then I would be around to leave them in and out, unless on occasion I'm gone for a day. As for leaving dogs outside for long period of times, that defeats the whole idea of having a dog(s) for a companion. Unfortunately if I knew then what I now know about training a dog, I would have never given up Laddie;  .... but then again, I would not now have Barney and Maggie |
YEAH on retirement!!  and im sorry if i seemed crass too you haveing to find your collie a new home,i dont want to even imagine the thought of haveing too find a new home for any of my fur babies it must be truely aweful . |
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