My Sheepies Behavior! HELP ME!!!!!
Naturally, I realize that she's still a puppy even though she's very large. I wanted a large dog. One of my problems is that I have a smaller dog named Bingo. Bingo is about 35 lbs. She's 2 yrs. old and a mixed breed. When we brought Annie home she played well with Bingo. Of course Annie was much smaller. Now that Annie is much larger than Bingo she constantly pummels her. Bingo will not go out in the backyard anymore to relieve herself if Annie is going, because she bites her neck and back, and will not leave her alone. I try to keep Annie inside and sneak Bingo out, but Annie then barks non-stop and jumps on the patio door. They do play together when it comes to tug-of-war with their rope toys or a sock. Annie has also regressed back to peeing and pooping in the house. She was doing very well for awhile, then she became lazy. She comes up to me after the fact to let her out. Speaking of leaving her outside. She plays this game of in and out. If I let her she would do this all day. She barks to go out, then barks to come right back in. This will continue until I stop it. But then, when I don't leave her out, she goes in the house. I don't know if I just have a hyper dog or if all sheepdogs are like this. I do have a large crate, but God forbid I put her in there. The cries she lets out are heartbreaking. All of us are at the end of our rope with Annie. I desperately need sound advice. I know she will eventually outgrow all of this with the proper discipline, but do sheepdogs need firmer discipline than a mixed breed? I cannot recall having such stressful times with my other dogs. Please help me with her! Sorry this is so long, but I will not give up on her!!!! Thank you! Diane Lyzen P.S.- Just a little humor, which Annie has also given to us...My daughter was in her room and she saw Bingo peeking around the corner. My daughter thought it was so cute that Bingo's head was the only thing showing as she was staring at her. Then my daughter walked into the hall only to see that Bingo's neck was in Annie's mouth and she was actually looking at Amber for help.  |
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| Sounds like Annie is trying to rule the house. When I first got Zak, he was four months old and a rescue. He tortured the household, until I learned to take control back. I once came home and found he had pulled the carpet right off the floor and had spent an hour or so eating the padding. He would chase the cat down and swallow his whole head. The crate was my biggest help. It was huge in calming him down. I would also hold him in a submissive position whenever he did anything wrong or defied me. I held him down until he relaxed. I was firm with him and it paid off. Unfortunately, it took time.
I'm about to bring a new pup in to the house and I have a feeling Zak (now ten) is going to get paid back for all the torture he once gave that old cat I had. Be firm, use the crate and don’t allow him to do things, such as be free in the house, until he has earned the right to. |
| Hi Diane, I can't compare a sheepie to a mixed breed or any other dog, since this is my first. But from my experience, they are smart dogs and will keep pushing you to see how much they can get away with. I highly recommend a book called "The Dog Listener" by Jan Fennell. My puppy Bailey is 11 months old now and I've had to go back to it several times when we've gotten "lazy" with him and he's pushed us to see how much he can get away with!
The pummeling you describe sounds exactly like the way Bailey plays with his sheepie friend Panda or young dogs of other breeds that he runs into in the dog park - wrestling, jumping, grabbing each other's necks. Is Annie aggressive with Bingo or is she just trying to get Bingo to play with her? Maybe it would help if you can take her to a dog park or find another larger young dog that she can play with? She's got a lot of puppy energy that she needs to burn up. As for the housebreaking problems, I would recommend that you go back to the crate. The crying is an act - the crate won't do her any harm and the crying will stop once she realizes that it's not going to do her any good. In my experience using the crate will help with the housebreaking. Bailey used to cry in his crate and I thought I was a bad momma but now it's "his" and he will choose to sleep in there over his dog bed at night. The way he howled about going in there when he was little, I never thought I'd see the day that he'd go in on his own! Good luck with Annie, and please post pictures of both dogs! |
| At 4 months old, the crate can be an incredible help in getting housetraning back in order. I know it's terrible to hear the crying but she's young enough that she can adapt and it should make housetraining efforts much easier for you (with a lot less clean up!). We got our OES, Clyde, at 3 months old and he was also no fan of the crate-- lots of barking and crying. It was heartwrenching but he calmed down after a few days but we had to remain firm and consistent, which was really hard for me. Even keeping her in the crate while you're around for short periods of time will help her adjust to it and it will give you and her a place to go to calm down and give poor Bingo a break when she needs it.
On a related note, the dragging by the neck move is very popular in our house too. I have an senior Briard mix name Lucy that was the "big" dog when Clyde entered the household. Now at a year old, Clyde towers over Lucy and outweighs her by about 35 pounds. We have a dog door and Clyde will station himself in front of it to wait for Lucy to come in and grab her neck and start dragging her around the house. She lets him know when he's pushing too far but, most of the time, she tolerates it. I do rmember though, at 4 months, Clyde was often relentless! If you keep a collar on Bingo in the house, I'd suggest either taking it off or getting the kind that buckles rather than slide adjusts. I've found that the neck grabbing can tighten or loosen the collar, making it easy to slip off or, on the flip side, so tight that it's uncomfortable. It gets easier, I promise! Jill |
| Sheepies are a lot of work, but not necessarily more than other breeds (behavior-wise). The biggest thing with them is that they get so big so quickly, yet are still completely puppies in their development, so they don't really know how big they are.
One piece of advice that I have found very useful is A Tired Puppy is a Good Puppy! They just have so much energy that if they are not exercised enough they will find other outlets (read: destructive!) to use of some of it...Not only does it allow for some 'me' time with the dog, which makes them happy, but it also physically tires them. Barney is a crazy, enthusiastic dog (he's now almost 16 months old--boy that sounds old!) and walks and playing ball in the yard really helped. Also, I LOVE doggy day care. We only take him once a month or every 2 months to have him groomed as well, but he is absolutely dead to the world the second he comes home--all that playing! As for the neck thing, I can't help--Barney chases our cats constantly and they just know to run and jump to avoid him... As for the housetraining...We basically feed and water Barney at specific times so we know when he should need to go out. Also, we took him out pretty often and then waited for him to go (sometimes we waited, and waited, and waited...) But it really helped us...if you go to the Housetraining section on the forum, you can see that I thought that Barney would NEVER get housetrained... Good luck, it does get better! |
| I don't have much time, but will try to go through these quickly, one by one, where I may have some insight:
Quote: Now that Annie is much larger than Bingo she constantly pummels her . Protect Bingo and don't let this continue. She is having far too much fun at Bingo's expense, but do not punish her for it or she will resent him.. Keep them separated, and when they are together keep her busy and rewatrd her with small treats for ignoring him. Quote: do play together when it comes to tug-of-war with their rope toys or a sock. Keep this up, and lots of it, so she will get used to playing with him this way. ONLY. Quote: Annie has also regressed back to peeing and pooping in the house. She was doing very well for awhile, then she became lazy. This is her not understanding what to do. Start house-training over and give her a small tasty treat when she goes outside. Quote: She comes up to me after the fact to let her out . She is only getting half of it, but it is a good start. Reward this, but not with a treat. Quote: Speaking of leaving her outside. She plays this game of in and out. If I let her she would do this all day. She barks to go out, then barks to come right back in. You have trained her to bark to get you to open the door. Stop doing this and put her on YOUR schedule, not hers. But make sure you know what her schedule is. Quote: This will continue until I stop it. But then, when I don't leave her out, she goes in the house. See above. She is only half getting it. Quote: I don't know if I just have a hyper dog or if all sheepdogs are like this. I do have a large crate, but God forbid I put her in there. The cries she lets out are heartbreaking. Crate-training has to be done gradually, so she enjoys it. Leave the door opne, and feed her in there, giv eher yummy treats in there, hide her toys in there, but do not force her in with a closed door until she is happy and actually sleep in there. Have her containied in a room with a baby gate in the meantime. Quote: All of us are at the end of our rope with Annie. I desperately need sound advice. I know she will eventually outgrow all of this with the proper discipline, but do sheepdogs need firmer discipline than a mixed breed? I cannot recall having such stressful times with my other dogs .
She is a happy puppy trying to have fun, and you don't want to supress this, do you? You need to get her into a positive-based training class. You need to work with her, not against her. Reward waht you like and ignore what you don't. She is still a baby, but you need to teach her what you wnat ehr to do by rewarding it, so she knows. Otherwise she will be left to her own device, and her behavior may not be what you want it to be. Gotta run! |
| I can hear your frustration. It sounds like it's rough puppy play but it can cause problems if the other dog feels picked on. It's amazing how fast puppies can learn and your's is still just a wee pup at only 16 weeks old! Note that I am not a trainer but you might try this...
Have you worked with Annie on the "leave it" command? You can actually start with treats (do this one-on-one without Bingo present for say 5 minutes in the AM and PM to start). Drop a treat on the floor and say leave it. If she goes for it, cover it with your foot and say leave it (wear shoes if your pup is real eager!). When she will leave it alone without your foot being over it, give her the command that it's okay to eat it. We do it a bit different by dropping a treat, saying "leave it" and then "look at me". I bring my hand by my eyes and move my fingers to my thumb like a duck quacking... when they avert their attention from what is on the floor, I give them a different/better treat. This way develops good eye contact and eager compliance once they understand the "game". If Bingo and Annie are outside, escort them both out with Annie on a long lead. If she starts the neck biting stuff say "leave it" and pull her back. Then tell her to "play nice" and allow her some freedom again. But you need to be consistant so she will come to understand that you will not tolerate the behavior. In the house, if you see Annie beginning this neck biting behavior, tell her to leave it. If she won't after say two commands, it's time for a "time-out"... for a bit of quiet time alone. You can also leave a short leash on her in the house to use as a way of directly her behavior but be sure you supervise her so she won't hang herself on something. As for the pooping/peeing in the house, a good remedy is a crate. Never for punishment... used for control/containment. It can be a place they look forward to being IF you feed them all their meals in there; give them treats while inside; have safe toys and a nice blanket in there; don't use it for excessively long periods of time (ALWAYS remove the collar before kenneling-up). The key is to make it a positive place. If Annie is reverting, you will need to also. This is what I would try... take Annie out on a leash to potty each time... for say a week? I tell mine to "do your business" and when they are finished, they are let off leash. I'm telling them that they do their business first, then they can play. If Annie won't potty and you think she has to, put her in her crate for 20 minutes (with toys and treats) and then try again. If you are "free-feeding", I recommend a regular schedule of 3 meals a day as puppies and finally 2 per day as adults. If you control what goes in, you control what comes out. I'm glad you're not giving up her! She will be well worth your efforts. I'm sure there are others here that can probably share much better advice on how to proceed. Through consistant but kind training, you should see some good results. Please keep us posted! |
| When I adopted my Fozzy from NEOESR in July, he was ten months old and a real firecracker. I swear, he has dog ADHD.
I had great success using the method described in the book, The Dog Whisperer: A Compassionate, Nonviolent Approach to Dog Training, by Paul Owens, Norma Eckroate. When the Fozzinator is out of control, I tether him with a six foot leash either to my leg or the leg of the sofa while I am reading or watching TV. That way, he is with the family, but unable to wander off and do God knows what. Also, it gives the other three dogs a break from his relentless pestering. |
| Hi Diane, I was just wondering if maybe our pups are siblings. I, too, am in Ohio with a 41/2 mo. old OES I got in October. I, too, am struggling to keep peace in the house since I have two toddlers and a pup who goes as much inside as out! Anyway, we got our OES (Gandalf) in Hartville, OH. I'd love to chat some more if in fact we are related! |
Diane wrote: .......They do play together when it comes to tug-of-war with their rope toys or a sock.........
I would discourage the tug-of-war. Some dogs will look at their success of being the strongest as a sign of being dominant, which could add to your problem of the OES already picking on the other smaller dog. This game could turn at any moment into a fight, rather than play. You don't want to do anything that sends a signal to your puppy that it is dominant. |
| Hi Diane, Can I ask you were you got Annie? I got my pup in Oct and I know that one of her sisters went to Ohio. Abby came from a Dr Shumate in Indiana. she also tried to rule things her way. I got the book The Dog Whisper and it really really helped. |
| The OES is one dog with the ability to train its owner well, if you let them. They are persistent at least mine has been. You have to be persistent back, like 24/7 I'd think. I wouldn't know really, because I now belong to Bam-Bam instead of him belonging to me...........ha
GOOD LUCK! |
I didn't read your post until late, I hardly ever get the chance to get on the site, but as far as the going in the house again- I took my youngest to obediance school a few months back and the trainer gave me some really good advice when dogs start to back slide. First off, take them out every hour exactly for starters. you have to start back at the beginning every time they start to backslide like that. The main time to get them out is about 20 minutes after they eat. take them out on a leash and always take them to the same area of yard (also easier to clean up if it's all in one area) walk them around if they don't go right away, but always return to that spot. If the dog still doesn't go, crate it for awhile while yuo go do something else and try again after 10 minutes or even 45 minutes. and just keep repeating until they get it. It worked for me! Quite quickly too. she hasn't really gone in the house for months - except just the other day I wasn't home and my fiance was supposed to keep an eye on my dogs, apparently he didn't do a very good job  Hopefully this was of help to you. |
| I almost forgot... give your dog a treat while she's peeing or pooping outside, not after she's inside, I was making that mistake! |
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