Should Illegal Aliens Get Driver's Licenses?
http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2003/m ... 5-14.shtml By giving illegal aliens licenses, it seems like it's the state's way of saying, yes, we've given up on even trying to stop illegal imigration here. C'mon over, work here and don't pay taxes, we won't bother you now. I'm not saying I have a solution but condoning illegal behavior sure doesn't seem like the way to go. I don't think it's fair to natural citizens or those who have moved here from other countries and went through all the proper channels to live and work here. Just wondered what other people though about this... |
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| Absolutely not. |
| I agree - you should not be able to get a drivers license unless you are a citizen or have legal residency in this country.
I'll go even more controversial - should you be allowed to attend school if you are not in this country legally? I'll admit that I'm really torn about this one. I hate to see a child deprived of an education but it has a significant impact on the quality and cost of education. This is a huge issue for border states. First, you have many communities supporting a school population that is far larger than the tax base. Schools get funding based on area population, and the illegal immigrants don't figure into any of those calculations. Children of illegal immigrants generate a need for English as a Foreign Language education, while their parents aren't paying taxes to support the program. And in the agricultural states like AZ, children will show up for school during the growing season and then leave, which impedes their education because they aren't here for the full school year and slows down the rest of the class as the teachers help them try to catch up. My solution is stop illegal immigration by coming down hard on the employers - both large corporations and individuals. |
| The government would save more money if it subsidized the wages of legal workers (to compete with the cheaper wages illegals will work for). That would be incentive for employers to only hire legal citizens. They aren't going to give up the money they save easily. |
I agree that you should not be able to get a drivers license if you are not a legal resident. North Carolina, unfortunately, has been one of the easiest states to get a license.  Our state legislature is FINALLY trying to get tougher restrictions passed.
I also agree that it is an unnecessary burden on the legal residents to pay for education of illegal aliens. We have such high immigrant populations here, primarily hispanic and hmong, that the teachers are forced to send notes home to the parents in the three languages because most of them do not speak English. Tax dollars pay for the translators and ESL classes for these students. Meanwhile, our kids only have music/art/phys.ed. on a rotation basis because there is not enough money for the classes to be taught full time. I know every child needs an education. I just think their parents should be paying taxes like the rest of us. JMPO |
| It seems pretty cut and dry to me too, but somebody must be supporting it if it keeps winding up coming up for debate in some states. I'd be interested to hear from someone who thinks that it is a good idea and why-- a real person, not a legislator! |
| NO!!! |
| Jill,
You are right! The government is letting it happen. I do not agree with allowing them to have licenses. That is basically the US saying well you are not supposed to be here but we will let you stay. Something else to bring up is that these people are hopping the border coming here Pregnant, walk into the local Social Services building and ask for medical care and they receive it for free.... and who is paying for it. US! If this country is going to give free medical care it should be to it's own citizens. Not only will they cover the Mother's medical care, but also the rest of the family. I think they should have immigration officers stationed at Social Services offices and when these people come in for help they should be taken right back to the border. Maybe another good idea is to tell them to go to DMV to get a license (Sure we will give you a license) and deport them as soon as they apply. JMO |
| absolutely not! |
| I think when everyone in our country has plenty of food, good healthcare, free education and a decent place to live we can turn our attention elsewhere. Until then why are we all working and paying taxes? Not to help our own, that's for certain. Nope, we work to support countries who don't want us there, and to provide free medical care to anyone who enters this country illegally. What a great system |
Oh my goodness.No!!like bestdogs said when EVERY single LEGAL AMERICAN has a job,healthcare,FOOD,just the basic things everyone w/o a doubt should have,then lets worry about other cutnries coming in.The amunt of money our government spends on healthcare,vaccinatins,food,welfare,job reform on illegal immigrants here is out of this world.IF we STOPPED funding for ppl too come too America there would be NO one homeless,dying alone w/ not having their meds,no one starving.It boggles my mind as too why the government continues too put Americans in debt even more.  |
| I'm not sure how I feel about the subject. But...... at least if Driver's lic are issued it is one way to track where the illegals are and how long they have been in the country. |
| Hmm this is a very interesting subject.
Here's a bit of background on my situation. My husband and I married this past may and as of yet he still doesn't have his papers through. He is considered out of status but people always assume he's an illegal alien. He entered the country legally with a legal Great Britain passport but just stayed past his visitors visa. With the ease that illegal aliens can get jobs and goodness knows what else, I don't really want my husband to do anything until he has all his papers through. Do I think that illegals should get drivers licenses? Well the question I have to ask is what good would it do? My mom (in Phoenix) is always telling me about illegals who get pulled over for speeding and just get let go anyway. If we give them drivers licenses, should we give them car insurance as well? I know that I would love it if my husband could get a drivers license, or health insurance, or even a nice job, but I know that it just wouldn't feel right. Granted it's going to be about $650 for all of his papers, but I'd rather do things the proper way. So in answer to the question at hand, I really don't think they should be allowed to. Sorry this was so long.  |
| you are all racist in your thinking. Your racism pours through your words. Who taught you to hate this way? |
puppy love234 wrote: you are all racist in your thinking. Your racism pours through your words. Who taught you to hate this way?
What an odd response. Racism has nothing to do with wanting people to follow the law, white black green or yellow. Legal is legal and illegal is illegal. Racisim has nothing to do with not wanting my tax dollars to pay for welfare benefits for people who are in this country illegally. I don't hate anyone I just belive in following the law. People who come to live in this country should follow the legal channels, learn to speak English and follow the laws of this country. Sorry puppy love234 but you are way off base. |
| NO! They should not get a license. Until they are legal.
This has nothing to do with racism. If anything, our govt is being racist by catering to all of the spanish speaking people. Most everything is in Spanish or English now. What do the poor Koreans, Germans, Russians, Chinese, Indian, French, etc.... people have to do? They have to learn English. It is only fair that Spanish speaking people should as well. I have no problem with immigrants as that is how most of us got in this country anyway. Our forefathers had to do things the proper way though. Just my .02 Eric |
SheepdogMarine wrote: What do the poor Koreans, Germans, Russians, Chinese, Indian, French, etc.... people have to do? They have to learn English. They might be better served to learn Spanish... |
| I think they should be able to get licenses, social security numbers, jobs, healthcare, schooling etc.
I will post more later! |
SheepdogMarine wrote: . Our forefathers had to do things the proper way though.
The proper way? When our forefathers came to this country they stole land from Native Americans, forced their religion on them, and killed those who didn't want to give up where they lived. If they didn't respect those who lived here first, why should people respect the government they created? |
Lil Walty wrote: I think they should be able to get licenses, social security numbers, jobs, healthcare, schooling etc. So we should abolish any immigration limits and laws? OR we can have them, but not enforce them? OR we can enforce them at the border, but if you get your toe onto US soil you win and become exempt to immigration law?
I don't understand. |
Lil Walty wrote: I think they should be able to get licenses, social security numbers, jobs, healthcare, schooling etc.
I just don't "get" this either. Setting aside all the other obvious problems (and problems that aren't so obvious to us)..... the tax burden would be tremendous. Imagine this... People would figure out how to milk the system pretty fast. For example, people could live their whole lives in their home country, paying far less (or no) income tax then move to the US at age 65, get a social security number and retire courtesy of Uncle Sam! Social security would very quickly go bankrupt. Or, people could just decide to move to the US when they become disabled, get a social security number and then start collecting benefits!?! Imagine if Canada handed out health cards to anyone who walked/drove/swam/flew into the country? People would never purchase health insurance and would just move to Canada (temporarily) when they get cancer or heart disease, get a health card and start using free health care! The system would go bankrupt. One of the main issues is that social services are in place to be used by the people who have funded them by paying taxes.... right? |
| I have to say I don't "get it either". We cannot take care of the entire world. Before we do that we need to take care of our own people. When all Americans are fed. clothed, and have medical care THEN we can start feeding clothing and caring for the rest of the world. As a country we already provide a tremendous amount of foreign relief to Third World Countries and disaster relief to areas that have been hit hard.
It is unreasonable to think that, as a country, we should accept any person that crosses our boarders and meet all their needs. That has nothing to do with prejudice or racism. It is just common sense. In a perfect world we would have the resources to help everyone, but this is far from a perfect world and there has to be a reasonable way of deciding those issues. Legal immigration is a necessity. |
| By giving illegal immigrants social security #'s you allow them to pay taxes. I don't think anyone should be employed without paying taxes, and there are ways to regulate that without simply saying that no illegal immigrants can work here. In fact it would probably be much more effective and beneficial for us, since many illegal immigrants dont take advantage of any public services other than putting their children through school.
I think our particular problem with immigration at this point is obviously illegal immigrants from Mexico that come here and accept low paying jobs. These are not people that are coming here, not working and milking the welfare system, because they simply cannot do that (which is a good thing!) The complaint is that they are taking jobs and driving wages down... so why don't we give them social security #'s, recognize them in the system, regulate how much they get paid (enforce minimum wage) and make them pay taxes. If the problem is that they aren't paying taxes and supplying cheap labor, why don't we specifically address that instead of simply booting them or not letting them educate their children? |
| Well, yes that does make sense. But if you are going to do that why not just expand the process so that they become "legal immigrants". I do agree that someone who comes to this country, is seof supporting and able to continue being so should be given the opportunity to become "legal". |
| The biggest part of the problem is not necessarily the illegal immigrants, it's the Americans that HIRE them. If we really wanted this to stop, those who hire illegals should start facing huge fines and loss of licenses. As it is now, it's all a very laissez-faire attitude-- there's really nothing big to deter people from hiring them. If you had a choice to pay a union worker $20 or some guy off a truck $5 to do the same job, would would really want to pay the higher wage? I think it's asking an awful lot of the American public to be on the honor system to do the right thing.
I think if you are illegally living in this country, however, you should not be allowed to take advantage of ANY of our services. I'm actually all in favor of an illegal commuter program. You come here and work here for the day and then you go home. You don't pay taxes and we don't care if you do because you aren't taking any of our services. If my commuter program takes off, remember, you heard it here first...  |
| If you are here illegally you should not have the RIGHT to anything except a trip back home!
This is not going to do anything but get worse unless the citizens of this country let the government know we're not going to take it any more!!! I'm not a hateful person, but like everyone else said, we have enough to deal with here without adding extra burdens. I agree people need health care, education, etc......... BUT, do it legally or don't do it! America is becoming another third world nation! Our standard of living is decreasing while the needs are increasing. Too much demand and not enough supply equals poverty! They left poverty to come here. Have you ever, or been with someone legal that that tried to get welfare help? Check out the requirements and see for yourself how many legal citizens are turned away in this country!!! It'll make you sick!!!
My solution is to gather them up, send them back across the border with an application for citizenship and a book on the English language. Then, see how many jobs are "really available" for guest workers! My bet is there aren't as many as the government wants us to believe. A driver's license for someone illegal???  What a joke!
JOIN and support the Minutemen!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Lil Walty wrote: The complaint is that they are taking jobs and driving wages down... so why don't we give them social security #'s, recognize them in the system, That's only one of the issues. If that were the only issue, this might have been resolved 20 years ago, and wouldn't be an issue now.If the problem is that they aren't paying taxes and supplying cheap labor, why don't we specifically address that instead of simply booting them or not letting them educate their children? The issue is that they are the poorest of the poor and require massive amounts of monies to support them in the community, and they are coming in numbers that we can't readily absorb as a society. We can't offer this many unskilled laborers jobs and economic growth and opportunities in their first years here to be able to create a prosperous generation of native born descendants. Instead we are creating a permanent class of societal dependents. This was never true before in this country; the immigrants had to be sponsored by a citizen, had to be an asset with their skill sets, but more importantly, they STROVE to become assimilated into society while maintaining their heritage privately, and MOST importantly came in numbers that could be assimilated. If they got sick they paid for their own doctors or their doctors gave them a line of credit, and they didn't have children they wouldn't support financially. Nowadays, immigrants are expecting to be availed of all of the welfare services of our country. We CAN offer some of them residency and we can offer more seasonal employment and then a ticket out of the country. If they are here legally then we should take care of them while here, but they can't bring in their families if they want to be a migrant seasonal worker. You know, if you take a seasonal job here in Massachusetts, probably the most liberal state in the Union when it comes to unemployment compensation, you are not eligible for unemployment compensation when the job ends. Why should seasonal workers in the fruit picking business be made elligble for residency because they came here for a (for them) GREAT paying job across the border? Nothing. If we close the borders, farms will have to pay enough money to get their crops picked, and prices will go up at the supermarket. I'm willing to pay 8c a pound more for my tomatoes to pay someone at the rate of $50,000 a year to pick them. Or.... farmers will invent really expensive machinery that can pick them gently. But my real problem with having discussions like this is people tend to ask aot of questions which I answer in detail, then don't bother answering the questions I pose.  Quote: So we should abolish any immigration limits and laws? OR we can have them, but not enforce them? OR we can enforce them at the border, but if you get your toe onto US soil you win and become exempt to immigration law? |
| The more I hear about the problems caused by illeagal immigration the more I think your government needs to firstly, secure your border. Regardless of the cost, as it is costing for generations if it's not done.
Then, just actually enorce the laws you have would be a good start.... I think you need to change the anchor baby law though. |
| You are arguing that the problem is that Americans are experiencing a lower standard of living. Do you really think that is because Illegal immigrants are coming here? Couldn't we just as easily blame it on the people that are allowed to get filthy rich here in America? Wouldn't it make sense to put a salary cap on people and take the rest of that money and put it into the welfare and social security funds that you are worried will suffer? If we send illegal immigrants back home, then many private businesses will go under because they are losing their cheap labor. And if we fill those jobs (good luck..) with Americans at the same price, then we are doing nothing to get people out of poverty and off welfare because they are barely earning any money.
I just think that people are not sure what they want to solve and how to solve it. It would make a lot more sense to decide what the problems are, who is contributing, and then take action. |
| Ron, to answer your question which I overlooked the first time... I think we should radically change our immigration laws. I'm not an expert on the issue, so I don't know where to limit how many people we let in legally, but I honestly don't see kicking anyone out as the real answer. If we keep track of them, and have them pay taxes and subject them to minimum wage, then I think that would take care of a large portion of the 'problem.'
If you are worried about dependants, then don't allow them to take part in welfare or social security or any other government benefit program. I don't really think this is an issue anyway, but I guess we'll never know until we keep track and are able to provide real and objective statistics. Again, I'm not an expert on the issue I just have opinions on the way people should be treated (compassionately), and think that illegal immigrants are being scapegoated. I also happen to believe that we should narrowly tailor all legislation to address the issues at hand so that we don't punish a large group of people that just want the opportunity to work. |
Lil Walty wrote: ....so that we don't punish a large group of people that just want the opportunity to work.
The punishment is NOT for them wanting an opportunity to work, its for "breaking the law." During their rallies, when they burn our flag, when they sing our national anthem in Spanish instead of English, etc.... are prime examples of how they feel about this country. They're only "taking advantage," and now that there are so many, we have a major problem, now they (not all) want to "take control!!!" Years ago they knew they were taking a risk of being caugth when they entered the country. They no longer fear dealing with "our" legal system, because they know it works "for" them! All they have to do is cross the border and their home free, and their "HOME IS FREE!" 
In response to Ron's questiton: I say clean up our acts. Put up the fence, maintain border security, send the illegals home. Revise the laws in such a way that it is beneficial to the US, not illegals, and then enforce them! Mouthypf |
| Why can't everyone just get along?
|
Lil Walty wrote: You are arguing that the problem is that Americans are experiencing a lower standard of living. Do you really think that is because Illegal immigrants are coming here? No, "our own" poor have a lower standard of living because of the inrush of illegals, especially in certain communities. Our society as a whole hasn't been affected yet because we are just borrowing money to pay for the problems...yet.Lil Walty wrote: Couldn't we just as easily blame it on the people that are allowed to get filthy rich here in America? Define "filthy rich". I'd bet my definition is different than yours.  Do you really think that the rich are causing people to be poor? Do you think they stuff their money into a mattress? Their money goes into stocks and bonds and back into the economy that employs everyone. Bill Gates hired 50,000 people and paid them a great salary while earning tons of money, then gave $30Billon away, mostly paid for by business purchases of his software. How come people don't happen to mention him or Warren Buffet (his money comes from other investors who have put money into businesses and grew them and earned money for doing so), or the other million millionaires who give more to charity and pay more taxes in a year than I'll earn in my lifetime? How about Michael Jordan? Has he done good things with his money? For every greedy Kenneth Lay there is, I'll show you 10 socially responsible millionaires whose taxes, by the way, already pay 40% of the income taxes (IIRC the top 1% pays 40% of the taxes, but I'd need to check that.) Lil Walty wrote: Wouldn't it make sense to put a salary cap on people and take the rest of that money and put it into the welfare and social security funds that you are worried will suffer? No way, the rich will stop working when they hit the cap, and lord knows we ought to keep the rich working-- they are good at expanding the economy when there is an incentive to do so. It is up to the stockholder to take control of out-of-control corporate salaries; what I think SHOULD be done are better laws to encourage better corporate governance and the ability of shareholders to dictate better business operations.Lil Walty wrote: If we send illegal immigrants back home, then many private businesses will go under because they are losing their cheap labor. They won't go broke if all of their competition has to pay the same price for labor. See, that's the problem. The honest folks who want to pay a living wage can't do it because there's a surplus of cheap labor, and if they don't pay the market price for their labor, they will price themselves out of business.Lil Walty wrote: I just think that people are not sure what they want to solve and how to solve it. It would make a lot more sense to decide what the problems are, who is contributing, and then take action. I am very sure of what needs solving, I'm not positive on how to solve it all.
Hey, you asked! |
Lil Walty wrote: Ron, to answer your question which I overlooked the first time... I think we should radically change our immigration laws. I'm not an expert on the issue, so I don't know where to limit how many people we let in legally, but I honestly don't see kicking anyone out as the real answer. If we keep track of them, and have them pay taxes and subject them to minimum wage, then I think that would take care of a large portion of the 'problem.' Well, that's a huge problem with your approach, because if we naturalize or amnestize or citizenize (are any of those real words?) everyone here today, you don't say what we do about someone who sneaks in tomorrow.BTW I haven't said "ship them all home" yet, have I? Although I'd like to say that (and may have, playing devil's advocate) I think there's a problem thinking about that with folks who have married or have citizen children here. What about someone who snuck in yesterday? Same "rights" as someone who snuck in 15 years ago, and has three citizen children? Or, do they have the same rights and benefits of citizenship as I do? Lil Walty wrote: Again, I'm not an expert on the issue I just have opinions on the way people should be treated (compassionately), and think that illegal immigrants are being scapegoated. I agree to a point, and I agree somewhat.Lil Walty wrote: I also happen to believe that we should narrowly tailor all legislation to address the issues at hand so that we don't punish a large group of people that just want the opportunity to work. I don't agree; were we to deport every illegal, they aren't being punished for wanting to work, they would be denied the advantages they sought when they chose to sneak into the country and/or overstay their welcome, and returned to their place of origin whole. Perhaps we should just imprison them instead like most countries would do?
By the way, when I come to visit Chicago, and you invite me in to say hello to Walty, and I decide to stay on your couch for the next 10 years, take money from your purse to have my medical needs attended to, force your children to be understanding of my satanic worship and my all borscht and cabbage diet, and you call the cops but I tell them I'm an immigrant from Massachusetts and they can't touch me because it's a Federal case, I'll remind you of this thread!  |
Bosley's mom wrote: Why can't everyone just get along? Nothing acrimonious here...
I'll be nice, Bosley's Mom, I'll bring my cot when I come to visit you! |
Lil Walty wrote: SheepdogMarine wrote: . Our forefathers had to do things the proper way though. The proper way? When our forefathers came to this country they stole land from Native Americans, forced their religion on them, and killed those who didn't want to give up where they lived. If they didn't respect those who lived here first, why should people respect the government they created? You are absolutely right. The real native americans got a raw deal. Nothing you or I can do to change that. As far as your idea to give them SS numbers, that is great, but it should all go through the proper channels. I know these channels were not in place two hundred years ago, but we cannot just let everyone come and go as they please. If they become citizens, then that is fine. Driver's license, social security, taxes and everything else we are entitled to should be theirs. This post really makes me glad I am not in politics, there are no easy answers. Have a nice day! Eric |
SheepdogMarine wrote: .......This post really makes me glad I am not in politics, there are no easy answers..........Eric
We're all in politics. Whether we vote or not, make our voices heard or not, we're involved. The problem is that a minority stirs things up, and because they're the only ones making themselves heard, they end up successfully gaining more and more rights, right or wrong. The Native Americans were given a raw deal. But we should learn from that lesson. It started with a small group of people that came in and established a foundation. Followed by the masses that heard of their success. The more they came, the more they "pushed" the Indian aside, and off "their" land. The American "citizen" is now being pushed by the masses of illegal immigrants flooding this land. As more and more hear of "their" success, more and more will follow until one day, the citizen will be no more. Yes, they'll still have SS numbers and such, but....... well look at the Indian. The solutions are easy. Send all illegals home. Give all those jobs to the legal citizens that are on welfare. If they refuse to work, cut them off. That would save a lot of tax dollars. Take government out of as much public aide as possible and turn it over to the churches, etc... Cut out all wasteful spending of tax dollars. Sure, the "how the bugs mate", "why is grass green" programs may be cut, but......... sorry, when we get back on our feet maybe we can reconsider our decision....... We can't get along because we're from too many cultures. It works to a certain degree, but when you start mixing some with others they just don't blend. And you can't just keep making laws to make it work, it won't. There are so many laws on the books that its almost against the law to breath! We need to "do" something, not just complain about it. I love my fellow man, but I can help him more in his home than I can in mine. My dollar would go farther in their land than mine. |
Lil Walty wrote: I think our particular problem with immigration at this point is obviously illegal immigrants from Mexico that come here and accept low paying jobs.
I think our biggest problem is that employers hire undocumented workers under the table, which encourages more undocumented workers to enter the country. What I don't understand is why our government allows employers to get away with it. Chasing after illegal immigrants one at a time is inefficient. Set up a government website to allow employers to register their employees by social security number/work visa in real time. Hard to believe that we don't have that service today, but it doesn't exist. A real time database would flush out fake social security numbers, duplicates, forged work visas, etc. Do spot checks in the industries that are notorious offenders (construction, farming, landscaping, janitorial/cleaning services). Charge offenders big fines. This will level the playing field - everyone has to hired documented employees. Yes, the price of certain goods and services will go up. Are you willing to pay more for a head of lettuce or to have your lawn mowed to ensure the security of this country? I am. |
| My first reaction is NO!!! But I also see the need they must know and understand the rules of the road. Soo now my answer is:
They should be made to pass driving tests and must carry insurance (something rare in this area anyway) but the card must be different and clearly state, not a citizen (this because of color blind government workers who couldn't see a color difference.) It can not resemble a citizen's driver's license so as to be used for voting, etc. The license allows them only to drive and shows they are responsible for any damage.....insurance. |
| I say people who are illegal immigrants who have been here 10+ years and have payed their taxes every year ( the stupidest thing anyone can say is that NO immigrant pays taxes which is a horrendous lie!) and has achieved more than the average American citizen for ex., owns a house, works and has kids that go to college and dont drop out , automatically be given Citizenship |
| How about people who dilligently steal lottery tickets for 10 years and have good children in school, and a wife automatically be given the jackpot? |
| warhawk, what about:
Quote: (6) you must demonstrate an elementary level of English (reading, writing, understanding); and,
(7) you must have knowledge and understanding of the fundamentals of history and government of the U.S. ......background check to determine whether you have committed a crime which might disqualify you from citizenship. (taken from: http://immigration-law.freeadvice.com/i ... ements.htm I HATE when they expect people to accommodate them when it comes to understanding the language. They all need to learn how to read, write, and speak the language to the level expected above. |
warhawk wrote: I say people who are illegal immigrants who have been here 10+ years and have payed their taxes every year ( the stupidest thing anyone can say is that NO immigrant pays taxes which is a horrendous lie!) and has achieved more than the average American citizen for ex., owns a house, works and has kids that go to college and dont drop out , automatically be given Citizenship
And they've also achieved law breaking status by being here illegally. Maybe that should be the new American standard? Special treats for people that own their own house and have kids that don't drop out of school. There should never be a correlation between success and getting citizenship. One has nothing to do with the other. Great idea, warhawk. |
| Well said Jill! |
| I just saw the funniest yet very mean video by googling immigration taxi (first link).
The guy drives up to some immigrants and says he needs workers to build a deck. He says he'll take all the guys standing there BEGGING for work. He makes them all get in the back of the truck. Drives fast over all the speed bumps. Then pulls into the immigration office. They jump out of the truck and start running for it. Says he does this every few weeks. I would have posted it, but he uses a four letter curse word. |
Joahaeyo wrote: I just saw the funniest yet very mean video by googling immigration taxi (first link).
The guy drives up to some immigrants and says he needs workers to build a deck. He says he'll take all the guys standing there BEGGING for work. He makes them all get in the back of the truck. Drives fast over all the speed bumps. Then pulls into the immigration office. They jump out of the truck and start running for it. Says he does this every few weeks. I would have posted it, but he uses a four letter curse word. I've seen that one. Thought it was pretty funny too. |
puppy love234 wrote: you are all racist in your thinking. Your racism pours through your words. Who taught you to hate this way?
Granting a license is a formality. Illegal’s don't bother with a license, they just drive, and they do it without insurance. My niece was hit, head on, and critically injured several months ago. The man responsible for the accident was drunk, in the country illegally, didn't have a license or insurance. This was the third time he had been arrested. He will be deported, AGAIN, and will find a way back to the country. He said just that while being handcuffed.
My niece in the prime of life has struggled to recover from a sever head trauma, a shattered leg, and 2 broken arms. We are still waiting to hear if she will lose her left leg at the knee. Out of all of this she lost her job. The insurance she extended through COBRA, will pay for about 40% of her costs, leaving her with well over $250K debt to date. My brother is caring for her children while she struggles to recover. Several weeks ago in Salt Lake, the same thing happened to a young family. Unfortunately, a mother and two children died. The man that hit them was an illegal with no license or insurance, and a repeat offender. This sort of thing happens everyday. Until the US enforces immigration laws, issuing a license is nothing more than a political gesture. If asking our government to enforce our already lenient immigration rules to protect our citizens makes me a racist, then so be it. |
Tanyathenurse wrote: ......It boggles my mind as too why the government continues too put Americans in debt even more.....
From all I hear it seems that most American citizens WANT NO amnesty, they want illigals sent home. I want a fence, and want them deported until they come in the right way. I think all services should be cut off immediately, school, medical and welfare. Not because I'm an uncaring person, but its the right thing to do. Its not fair to those that came to this country legal, and its not fair that we're shortfunded and can't supply our own first. It "boggles" my mind that we have a government that turns their ear away from the wishes of the citizens they serve! We need to speak louder! Make them hear us! Call, write, email and fax them constantly, telling them you're against all forms of amnesty, and want our borders protected! Support the Minutemen, and others like them. Never forget 911. We have men and women that have and are still dying for this country. What they're doing by allowing this to happen again is a slap in their face! A dishonor to our fallen hero's! Stand up America! Don't just tell one another how you feel, tell UNCLE SAM!!! You might add that you don't want to PRESS 1 any more for ENGLISH. 1 (English) is the American voice, there shouldn't be a choice. Does anyone know if we have to push one for English because of the number of illegals, or the number of legal Spanish speaking citizens? Makes no sense to me to cater to, and financially support illegals. I'm not a racist, I'm an American citizen that wants my grandchildren to grow up in America, not Mexamerica. I want them to be safe, to know laws are for everyone, not the chosen. A license? They have more rights being illegal than they will by becoming citizens. Mouthypf |
| OK, you want to treat illegals harshly. We get it.
What do you do with a family where: 1) One of the spouses is an American citizen? We don't break up families. Remember when we lobbied the soviets to allow spouses out on humanitarian grounds? I don't think we can now split up families and not be hypocritical. So families stay. or 2) There is a child born here that is an American citizen? You can't deport an American citizen (Deport? To where?)-- what are you going to do, stick the kid in an orphanage at your own expense and deport the parents? Do you think there's a million kids out there yet? Are we really going to break up families like this? See #1 above. |
Ron wrote: OK, you want to treat illegals harshly. We get it.
What do you do with a family where: 1) One of the spouses is an American citizen? But doesn't that immediately start the legal immigration process? |
Ron wrote: OK, you want to treat illegals harshly. We get it....
I suppose you can look at it that way, but I don't. I see it as offering them the same opportunity to come back, and become a citizen of this great nation like those before them, the legal way. What would I do with the families? If one of the parent's is a citizen, the spouse and children would stay. If a child is born here and the parent's are for a fact illegal, the child should not be considered an American citizen. The mother should be deported with her child. I know it sounds harsh, but it was "their" choice to take that risk by coming here illegally. Our justice system has no problem separating families when someone commits a crime and is sent to prison. Those children and spouses are then left to fend for themselves. If being illegal is a crime, what's the differance? I'm not for seperating these families, but just like the criminal, they made the choice to take a chance and got caught. There are consequences for our actions. It's our choice to decide whether or not the chance we take, is worth what we risk to loose. jmop |
Anonymous wrote: If a child is born here and the parent's are for a fact illegal, the child should not be considered an American citizen. Then you'd better get started on the first part of your campaign -- amending the Constitution: A questionably Constitutional congress, in the 14th Amendment wrote: 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
My point is not that we shouldn't deport illegal aliens, my point is that all is not so simple and clear in this issue. We've given amnesty before and it didn't work IMHO because we weren't able to increase the robustness of the Mexican economy sufficiently, and we didn't secure our borders properly. I believe that our biggest challenge isn't those that are already here, as was demonstrated by the last Amnesty, it is preventing this from becoming an issue again 12 or 24 years hence. While a fence might slow the influx for a short time, the border is thousands of miles and energetic, intelligent and resourceful people will find a way to get across in great numbers. Our only hope is to lift Mexico from its poverty. If we can't do it through international cooperation, it will be accomplished one illegal alien at a time sending money home, creating misery (under-the-table work, jails, deportations, taxpayer pain) for everyone anyway. I think. |
Ron wrote: .....Our only hope is to lift Mexico from its poverty....
I can't change the constitution, and would'nt want to. Great men and women have fought and died for the protection of those rights. I only want to change things that no longer honor what they fought and died for. Our freedom and protection. I have no problem lifting Mexico out of poverty, but we're draining America in the process. What will happen when she has no more to give. Who will help her? Where will they go then? 
IMOP........our only hope is God. |
mouthypf wrote: I can't change the constitution, and would'nt want to. Great men and women have fought and died for the protection of those rights. I agree, but that's what would be required to kick children born here out of the country. They're citizens.mouthypf wrote: I have no problem lifting Mexico out of poverty, but we're draining America in the process. What will happen when she has no more to give. Who will help her? Where will they go then? Well, those coming for economic benefit will stop coming when our countries are equal, for what it's worth. |
you guys act like coming over here and getting legal is just the easiest thing in the world  everything that illegals do they get arrested for i think that you have to be very smart to get a licenses in nc trying to get a legal document for proof of residency it almost impossible because if they go anywhere to get somthing legal sent to their house they get arrested and if they drive without a license they get arrested either way they are in a losing battle no matter where they go immagrates would come over here and do what they need to do to get legal if it didn't have to take forever and lots of money to get legal then they would but they don't have lots of money because people like you guys don't want to give them jobs and their not gonna get their licenses any other way then to lie and say their someone else because they can't work and get paid enough to do the stupid legal stuff so they can be here legally it takes years and you guys don't understand because all yall do is sit back and watch as their actally just trying to survive in this world and now yall are hating because you don't think they should be able to go to school here if they are not legal what if they never met anybody that would teach them english you guys make me mad with all this mess that yall don't even know anything about |
| Wow everybody!!! e.e. cummings has come to our board and posted under the assumed name of races hatr247. How cool that a celebrity would come here! |
LOL! celebrity incognito  |
races hatr247 wrote: immagrates would come over here and do what they need to do to get legal if it didn't have to take forever and lots of money to get legal then they would
Is an immigrate a combination of an ingrate and an immigrant? |
races hatr247 wrote: you guys act like coming over here and getting legal is just the easiest thing in the world
everything that illegals do they get arrested for i think that you have to be very smart to get a licenses in nc trying to get a legal document for proof of residency it almost impossible because if they go anywhere to get somthing legal sent to their house they get arrested and if they drive without a license they get arrested either way they are in a losing battle no matter where they go immagrates would come over here and do what they need to do to get legal if it didn't have to take forever and lots of money to get legal then they would but they don't have lots of money because people like you guys don't want to give them jobs and their not gonna get their licenses any other way then to lie and say their someone else because they can't work and get paid enough to do the stupid legal stuff so they can be here legally it takes years and you guys don't understand because all yall do is sit back and watch as their actally just trying to survive in this world and now yall are hating because you don't think they should be able to go to school here if they are not legal what if they never met anybody that would teach them english you guys make me mad with all this mess that yall don't even know anything about Your point, e.e.? Exactly how do you propose to change the situation? Are you saying, it's OK to lie and cheat without being punished? You are angry at us, but what steps have you taken today to change the world for the better. Instead of worrying about all the poor folks that lie and cheat to get into our country, you may want to focus your concern and anger on the American citizen's that live in poverty and are "just trying to survive". Where is your righteous indignation for your fellow American citizens? What leads you to beleive the kind folks on this sight know nothing about the current immigration issue? Having an opinion doesn't make them bad people. Are you in the country illegaly? Is that why you are so angry with the lack of support from people who have done nothing to hurt you? So much anger and no ability to exprss it constructively is not healthy and certainly doesn't bring people over to your cause. |
| so everyone here is against giving drivers licenses.... your arguments are
1- they don't pay taxes, they don't deserve them This is a stereotype and a very big one. Over the years more and more immigrants have been paying taxes through a government issued ITIN number that is designed not for illegal immigrants, but for anyone that is not a US citizen that is to pay taxes. Also, they pay taxes every single time they buy something. Finally, if we don't give them something as simple as a measly drivers license how can we expect them to pay taxes? they don't get many benefits...and they pay for my SS without draining any out  SS is pulled out of EVERYONE's pay. Regardless. No exceptions.
2- Illegal is illegal. Technically if you're not a Native American, you're illegal. So let's not bring up the "let's do what's right" because none of our ancestors did it so we can't expect the same thing not to occur. History repeats itself. 3- They should do the paper work like a lot of other people do. Great, the only problem is that the US limits the visa quotas for certain countries. It is very hard to get your visa approved if you're unfortunately from specific countries. So it's not the same for everybody. 4- They're criminals. Lets not be ignorant...every race has their bad apples. 5- They get a trafficticket and don't pay or do anything about it. They're not even allowed a drivers license....is it logical to even expect payment for something you're denying them? It's like asking your kid to do the dishes yet you don't allow him to turn on the sink. Let's be a little more logical, please. |
Sheeps over Aces wrote: races hatr247 wrote: you guys act like coming over here and getting legal is just the easiest thing in the world everything that illegals do they get arrested for i think that you have to be very smart to get a licenses in nc trying to get a legal document for proof of residency it almost impossible because if they go anywhere to get somthing legal sent to their house they get arrested and if they drive without a license they get arrested either way they are in a losing battle no matter where they go immagrates would come over here and do what they need to do to get legal if it didn't have to take forever and lots of money to get legal then they would but they don't have lots of money because people like you guys don't want to give them jobs and their not gonna get their licenses any other way then to lie and say their someone else because they can't work and get paid enough to do the stupid legal stuff so they can be here legally it takes years and you guys don't understand because all yall do is sit back and watch as their actally just trying to survive in this world and now yall are hating because you don't think they should be able to go to school here if they are not legal what if they never met anybody that would teach them english you guys make me mad with all this mess that yall don't even know anything about Your point, e.e.? Exactly how do you propose to change the situation? Are you saying, it's OK to lie and cheat without being punished? You are angry at us, but what steps have you taken today to change the world for the better. Instead of worrying about all the poor folks that lie and cheat to get into our country, you may want to focus your concern and anger on the American citizen's that live in poverty and are "just trying to survive". Where is your righteous indignation for your fellow American citizens? What leads you to beleive the kind folks on this sight know nothing about the current immigration issue? Having an opinion doesn't make them bad people. Are you in the country illegaly? Is that why you are so angry with the lack of support from people who have done nothing to hurt you? So much anger and no ability to exprss it constructively is not healthy and certainly doesn't bring people over to your cause. we were born in the great capitalistic America, built upon the ideas of social Darwinism...if you have trouble keeping up with an illegal yet you have so many advantages over them, then YOU have a problem bud. |
| If someone is in the country illegally, they are not legally entitled to the legal privileges afforded by our legal system to those who are here legally. That's the way it works. Or the way it is or was supposed to work.
They are however, legally subject to be jailed and deported for illegally entering the country. That's the way it was supposed to work, too. Of course all of this is just my opinion, bud. |
Ron wrote: If someone is in the country illegally, they are not legally entitled to the legal privileges afforded by our legal system to those who are here legally. That's the way it works. Or the way it is or was supposed to work.
They are however, legally subject to be jailed and deported for illegally entering the country. That's the way it was supposed to work, too. Of course all of this is just my opinion, bud. My opinion also. |
Ron wrote: If someone is in the country illegally, they are not legally entitled to the legal privileges afforded by our legal system to those who are here legally. That's the way it works. Or the way it is or was supposed to work.
I think that depends on the State and the privilege. NYS' constitution requires the State and or localities to provide health care, education and I believe welfare to all residents. And residents are not categorized as legal or illegal. |
Ron wrote: If someone is in the country illegally, they are not legally entitled to the legal privileges afforded by our legal system to those who are here legally. That's the way it works. Or the way it is or was supposed to work.
They are however, legally subject to be jailed and deported for illegally entering the country. That's the way it was supposed to work, too. Of course all of this is just my opinion, bud. have you ever stopped to think about that maybe your opinion isn't always right? i'm not saying it isn't, but have you ever considered it? and don't simply say "it's the law" because things aren't that simple... |
| I don't know, Judge Mathis. As a small claims court television judge, it is your job to interpret and uphold the laws. Perhaps you might consider another career that allows more room for opinions, like a talk show host or a guy on a soapbox. |
ButtersStotch wrote: I don't know, Judge Mathis. As a small claims court television judge, it is your job to interpret and uphold the laws. Perhaps you might consider another career that allows more room for opinions, like a talk show host or a guy on a soapbox.
 I find it hard to believe that is the tv Judge Mathis. |
| I am going to add more fuel to the fire regarding the Spanish language issue! The Commonwealth of Puerto Rico is a US possession and if you are born in Puerto Rico you are a US citizen, entitled to a US passport and can travel freely around the USA like anyone born on the mainland. The official language of Puerto Rico is SPANISH! All official US federal government documents must be in both Spanish and English. We are discriminating against US citizens when you don't offer a Spanish language option.
My husband is from Puerto Rico and is completely bilingual. That said there are times where he prefers to speak Spanish and I think as a native born Puerto Rican US citizen he is entitled to do this anywhere in the USA! Kathie |
Judge Mathis wrote: have you ever stopped to think about that maybe your opinion isn't always right? i'm not saying it isn't, but have you ever considered it? and don't simply say "it's the law" because things aren't that simple... Of course it is right, to me. That's the nature of opinion, and I clearly labeled my opinion as such.I have looked at this issue from every angle that I could possibly imagine. And there are logistical issues and humanitarian issues and legal issues and personal issues. But what I can't get around is that there are laws on the books about this. We can't just bend the law 12 million times, and do the same thing every 15 or 20 years. It makes a mockery of us, our laws and system. Either enforce the laws or change them. kerry wrote: I think that depends on the State and the privilege. NYS' constitution requires the State and or localities to provide health care, education and I believe welfare to all residents. And residents are not categorized as legal or illegal. Fascinating. Well in that case, they should feel free to come forward and assert their rights as they sit in Federal detention awaiting deportation hearings.
I think we should not enforce "No Smoking" bans on buses because after all, the people paid taxes when they bought the cigarettes, and are supporting the public transit system, and in fact the public transit system would likely go out of business without all of these smoking riders, and it's unfair that people with cars can smoke on the way to work and these taxpayers cannot. Don't they have the same rights as the car owners whose car is being washed by them? |
| Its pretty sad how they say all. This sterotypical stuff I live in nc and I have friends who are illegal who do pay taxes since 2001 and have never gt stopped by d police their son came here illegal with them when he was 6 and he is top of his class. I think they should see if the personn has a crime record instead of judgeing them as a group |
| I had a dear friend that was killed in a car accident. She was hit by an illegal alien driving with a state issued license. He was drunk. When released from jail,rather than face charges, he beat feet over the border, never to face punishment for his act of murder. My niece was in a serious accident caused by an illegal alien. He was drunk, did not have insurance, nor a license. This was his third accident with injuries. Once released from jail, rather than take responsibility, he ran for the border. My niece couldn't run as she spent several months in the hospital and even more months in rehab. She lost her job, insurance and went into bankruptcy. Luckily her children received only minor injuries. Her dog who was thrown from the car and saved by a driver that witnessed the accident. My niece has to face pain and disability every day for the rest of her life. A friend was severly beaten and robbed, same story A friends daughter same story. My point, if you have the option to take off and return to your country out of reach of our legal system, you deserve no consideration whatsoever. |
| No, they should not. |
| This post is a bit odd. I am from the UK and can drive with my license in the US and so can most. Not too sure if I would have too pass a test if I stayed too long as for the larger debate about people illegal people being over in any country is hard. No matter what you do you will always get people moving across. They look at your country and think we will get a better life over there but in a lot of cases it just don't happen. Sad truth they pay large sums of money to these people traders and are still paying them off. The government knows this happens as its cheap labour so turns a blind eye. When it was good people did not care about these people as they were doing the crap jobs, which most of you won't do also its the rich farm owners & other rich people do this as they make vast amount of profits. So in a nutshell the poor people who want a better life get screwed & then we complain they are stealing our jobs and so on. What right have do we have when we done the same many moons ago also a lot of people in the US live in a bubble & do treat there neighbors like second class citizens. I am not say you all do but that's what a lot of people think about the Americans . Also someone made a statement that a illegal killed someone because they were drunk. Don't matter if was legal or illegal he should not been driving ( these are the sort of stupid comments you get). We have the same issues in the UK and I would say every country has this issue so don't bleet about it. Get rid of trains,planes,cars & just use your feet to get around & then you won't have this issue |
| Parwaz I truly do not understand your argument, again. The last sentence in particular makes no sense to me. Maybe if you lived here you would understand better what this illegal aliens thing means to some of us. It may just be difficult to understand given the gap. Shellie |
| The last bit if you get rid of the modern transport then you won't get many people moving around the world. I think most of you live in a bubble. We have the same issues in the UK & most countries have these issue. I don't want to go into this as I don't want to upset anyone & would you say that you are a true American & I would say no because you are not a native Indian so you are a Alien to them but as I said I won;t argue about this issue as it would open up a can of worms from other people who would use this subject into a race thing |
| Hmm...not sure what is going on with the responses to this post...The answer is in the question...ILLEGAL....This is America. We are liberal. We welcome people from other countries into our own. We provide interpreters for them, day care for their children, housing....The USA welcomes all...HOWEVER...we have laws...ILLEGAL means against the law...Should they have a drivers license? NO! But they do...and they enjoy our court system, our welfare system, etc...without paying a dime towards our taxes. Want to enjoy life in America? Get legal.... This is not a race thing. American embraces immigrants. And probably most of us have parents or grandparents who came over from another country. The difference? They were PROUD to be American. Most othem fought in the War protecting their "foreign" land... They made sure they learned English and taught it to their children. They worked hard and became legal citizens, with their proudest moment being sworn in as American citizens...I don't see that today...It has nothing to do with race... |
| Getting rid of transport is just a nonsensical response. Totally undo-able. This is So NOT a race issue. This is a LEGAL issue. I guess I am just not understanding. And I DON'T live in a bubble. I think that is an easy out. I can appreciate people wanting the American dream. Just do it legally. And yes, it is as simple as that. I for one am sick and tired of the attitude of entitlement I see so frequently. You want something, earn it, legally. Shellie |
| See you don't get it. Your country is not the only one with this issue as most G countries have this issue & how do you sort it out. Make there own country a better place to stop them coming over & talk to the very rich who employ them & a very poor rate and don't pay the taxes. Will you ever get rid of the black market. I don't think so |
Parwaz wrote: See you don't get it. Your country is not the only one with this issue as most G countries have this issue & how do you sort it out. Make there own country a better place to stop them coming over & talk to the very rich who employ them & a very poor rate and don't pay the taxes. Will you ever get rid of the black market. I don't think so What is a G country? |
| The Group of Eight (G8) is a forum for the governments of eight large economies. It excludes some members of the actual eight largest which are China, Brazil and India |
Quote: See you don't get it. Your country is not the only one with this issue as most G countries have this issue & how do you sort it out. Make there own country a better place to stop them coming over & talk to the very rich who employ them & a very poor rate and don't pay the taxes. Will you ever get rid of the black market. I don't think so Ok, totally not making any sense AND not addressing the issue. Also, what does the black market have to do with illegal alien drivers? I didn't mean I didn't understand the issue, I meant I don't understand you, and that's fine I really don't need to. Two countries separated by a common language, or something like that. Shellie |
| Also calling these people Aliens is not good. What they are from Mars or Saturn. |
| al·ien /ˈeɪlyən, ˈeɪliən/ Show Spelled[eyl-yuhn, ey-lee-uhn] Show IPA noun 1. a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization ( distinguished from citizen). 2. a foreigner. 3. a person who has been estranged or excluded. 4. a creature from outer space; extraterrestrial. Notice that the first 3 pertain to foreigners. This is cut and pasted from dictionary.com. Maybe you have a misperception of our meaning of illegal alien. The term is not at all meant to demean or degrade. |
| this post about more about Should Illegal Aliens Get Driver's Licenses? These sort of post opens up such a can of worms. I should take a leaf out of Vance's & just shut up |
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