Merry "Holiday"
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Bailey's Mom wrote: It's even more annoying when you think that the same retailers who won't allow employees to say Merry Christmas have been trying to sell you inflatable Santas and Christmas tree ornaments since October.
Great point! I don't get why one would be offended if someone wishes them a "Merry" or "Happy" holiday that they personally don't celebrate? I know I wouldn't be offended if someone wished me a Happy Hannakuh or Happy Kwanzaa. Why not just thank them for the sentiment in the spirit in which it was offered? Good will. JMPO |
Bailey's Mom wrote: ....isn't it odd that all of the major retailers chose the same year to stop wishing us a Merry Christmas? Not sure about Target, but I think Walmart and Sear's are somehow in business together?????
It's not the "mas" part of the word that they want to get rid of, it's the "Christ" part. Perhaps they would prefer Happy Birthday. |
Bailey's Mom wrote: isn't it odd that all of the major retailers chose the same year to stop wishing us a Merry Christmas? Do you think the marketing guys all got together and said "if we all ban the word Christmas, then no one can really boycott because there's no other place to shop?"
that's no more odd than when Chevy, Buick, Ford, Dodge, Cadillac, GMC, Pontiac and Jeep all offered the employee discount for their cars starting the same month. my opinion on the christmas thing is this: it's lame. but in the end, in this overly politically correct world there would be more people irked by the presence of the word christmas in an advertisement than there would be by the lack of it. |
Quote: but in the end, in this overly politically correct world there would be more people irked by the presence of the word christmas in an advertisement than there would be by the lack of it.
Or more vocal people, not necessarily more people... |
| Perhaps the word should be changed to "Xmas."
I really should not enter into this discussion. People who don't like "Christmas" make me crazy. Can't call it a Christmas tree or a Christmas party because someone might get offended. I guess the ultimate goal of whoever started this nonsense is that nobody should ever be offended or upset. EVER. But guess what. Christmas is celebrating the birth of Christ. And this country was founded on the principles of Christianity. Are Christians allowed to be offended because "some people" refuse to use the word Christmas? I guess not. Here's the offical Snopes report on Target: http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/targetxmas.asp If Sears and Wal-Mart won't use the word "Christmas" in their ads, then they can kiss my horse's hind end. I never shop at Sears and go to Wal-Mart about 3 times a year. Target is on my hit list anyway since they refused to let the Salvation Army ring the bells and collect in front of their stores. |
| The thing that bothers me the most is that all these changes are in reponse to a moral minority that makes so much noise, that advertisers cater to them. If you don't believe in something, just smile and move on. Hearing "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Chanukah" isn't going to cause anyone to bleed from the ears. Whatever happened to respecting others' beliefs instead of trying to make them go away because they don't go along with what you believe? I just can't believe people have this much free time on their hands to complain about something that means well. Way to numb up the whole holiday experience in an effort to make it about nothing. |
| Me and my best friend was just talking about this morning.We heard some call a Christmas tree a Holiday tree???Way wacked too me.However typical of the rightgous people who wanted too take the pledge out of schools.Im thankful i live in a small town where they still say the pledge too the flag and say "One nation under God",I guess when a small group of people w/ ALOT of time on their hands,and very narrow minded yell and throw a tanterum loud enough the big companies feel they "better" shut these people up.I will never say Merry Holidays,we are celebrating Christ birthday,so its Merry Christmas.I wonder about Haunaka (sorry for the misspelling the celebration for the Jewish people)is there going too be a big upset and a need too change that?I feel as Americans,and altho our friends too he North arent Americans this applies too you guys also.that IF we continue taking religon out of everything,like the pledge,out f holidays,out of anything this is how the morals of people and our childern drop.Its sad,I do understand theres alot of people who dont beleave in a higher power,so dont celebrate christmas,but why make everyone who DOES beleave in an high power take religion out.In a simple word its stupid. Oh and ID like too say when writing I do say Xmas but for me its just an abbreviation,Just wanted too clear it up. |
| I just wanted to point out (even though it is off topic) that the phrase 'under God' was only added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954 (the pledge was created in 1892), so it was not an original component. The original author was a socialist and was kicked out of his church for his beliefs so he probably wouldn't have been happy with the addition... |
THis politcal correctness is starting to get out of hand. At the church where my Aunt works they had to take down the manger scene because it offended some peoples religious beliefs.  I know I am going to come off as a racist and believe me I am not but why should we cater to all of these minorties when it used to be okay a few years ago. If you come to live in this country then you must accept our customs and culture just as we do yours. I have a huge problem with this. You want to leave your country for a better life in North America then you must be willing to learn english, live by our laws and be willling to accept other religions and beliefs. |
casearoo wrote: [...]for a better life in North America then you must be willing to learn english, [...] or Spanish in Mexico, or French in Quebec, or Bostonian in Massachusetts... |
| Look at me, eh. I'm speaking Canadian, eh!!!! |
| Oh, ya. And I'm from MineesOta, don' cha know!
I was born there, so I can make fun! |
| What I mean is that you learn the native tongue. That is one of my pet peeves is phoning somewhere (say a help desk) and you can barely understand the person on the other end. It is so fustrating. |
| I know, I was just being silly... |
| I know. I was just wondering if it annoys anyone else. |
| It can be very annoying and very trying to deal with the language barrier. I think anyone can live wherever they'd like but I do think that before making a major decision like that, you need to prepare yourself and be ready to learn the language and customs of that area. I work at a urban university where the majority of our students are international. Many of the Indian (and other international)students work at our customer service points and it's a problem for the North American patrons. Not only is language a problem, what is considered good hygiene in their native country is NOT considered good hygiene here. We have many instructors that are brilliant but how they passed the TOEFL (English as a second language test) is beyond me. My boyfriend works in the computer lab and some of the students come to him to use a computer to prepare and, no joke, TOEFL is literally the only word they can say. Their written English might be good but the verbal is terrible. Also, becaue the international population is so high here, many of the students stick with their own group and never even speak English. Most leave their laptops in their native language and come for help and get angry when our people don't know Korean symbols!
I think it's asking an awful lot of a country to take care of you. I couldn't imagine packing up and moving around the world and not being able to communicate. I wouldn't even consider it! I think it's a burden on that society and just makes things difficult. However, many of these people come from different environments where that's acceptable so they assume that it's fine here. It's kind of funny because this topic usually comes up in our customer service meetings once a month after we've gotten a patron complaint. The international students can only work on campus and our division has the most student jobs available on campus so it's an ongoing problem. |
| I have a very difficult time communicating in Lakhota (Sioux) and Arapaho, but I seem to be getting a little better with my Pequot since I've visited the casino at Foxwoods. |
casearoo wrote: THis politcal correctness is starting to get out of hand. At the church where my Aunt works they had to take down the manger scene because it offended some peoples religious beliefs.
OK - I guess I'm missing something but how can you make a church take down it's nativity scene? It's on private property! The uproar is usually about nativity scenes on city property, because people claim that it violates separation of church and state. Here's another reason that Chicago is the greatest city in the world - in Daley Plaza during December they have a nativity scene, an enormous menorah and a display that shows the Pillars of Islam. Instead of caving in and taking down the nativity scene (which was sponsored by a local church) they said hey, if you want to be represented, go ahead! Equal opportunity. I agree that if you want to live in an area, you should learn to speak the "official" language of that area. It's dangerous to operate a vehicle, walk the streets or work in certain environments if you can't understand the signs around you or the things people might try to tell you. |
Ron wrote: I have a very difficult time communicating in Lakhota (Sioux) and Arapaho, but I seem to be getting a little better with my Pequot since I've visited the casino at Foxwoods. My tongue in cheek response notwithstanding, I am actually very much in favor of immigrant assimilation, and maybe, perhaps, kinda would be for an English as Official Language thingy.... but I'm not really sure about that.
It's such a complicated issue on so many levels that I haven't thought it through to the end yet. It would take days to contemplate, and I've never really had the stomach to do it. In the meantime, let's go back to practicing the native languages of our land... Well, let's see, in Texas would that be Spanish? Or would it be Comanche or Apache or Coahuiltecan or Tonkawa or Caddo or Lipan or Karankawas? http://www.lsjunction.com/places/indians.htm |
Bailey's Mom wrote: if you want to live in an area, you should learn to speak the "official" language of that area. What's the official language in the Bayous of Louisiana? I have a really hard time understanding Creole and Pigeon and Cajun. Up in Alaska, perhaps we should learn IñupiaQ
http://www.alaskool.org/Language/dictio ... ionary.htm Just Food for Thought |
When I used the pledge as an example of the goverment taking out "under God",I was just making a point of how easy it is for a small group of radicals to too dismantle what has been apart of our history for so many yrs.,and too suck religion out of every aspect of our every day lives.i for one want "Under God" in my kids pledge,and I want chrsitmas too be just that.I suck at making my points on this computer.!!  |
| Well, we actually have two differnt threads going here...... both of which I seem to have an OPINION ON (surprise surprise surpise)...........
I live and work in Ithaca, NY home of Cornell Unitversity and Ithaca College. An exteremely culturally diverse community. If you were to take a random sampling of 50 people off the street not only would you most likely find a wide variety of cultures represented but you'd find a broad range of religions as well. So even though the two subjects here don't really seem to go together, they do!!!! 
Most of the places I go it's not uncommon to hear different languages or to speak to people with different accents but one thing I have noticed about this area, being a "college" town is that people are open to learning and trying to become part of the community This summer when I was in Washington DC I had an entirely different experiece, I felt in the minority (nationality wise) surrounded by people who didn't care if they could speak the language and didn't care if I understood them or not, in fact, seemed to go out of their way to make it difficult for me to understand what they were saying. The differnce? I believe it to be level of education. And on to the issue of Christmas. I know this is an unpopular stance buuuuuuuuut...... I guess I support the global "holiday" theme rather than a "Christmas" theme. In this country we prode ourselves on freedom and that includes freedom of religion and I guess I try to stop and think how I would feel if I were Muslim, or Hindu or any non-Christian religion and had to spend 6-8 weeks out of the year having people wish me a "Merry Christmas" I also think that the constant Holiday merriment gets a bit obnoxious after awhile, call me a Scrouge but by the time Christmas does roll around I've heard "Merry Christmas" from every bank teller, store clerk, gas station attendent, telemarketer, toll both attendant, and dentist I've come in contact with for so many weeks that it loses a bit of it's meaning. I'm for keeping the holidays personal and meaningful, celebrate with you family, friends and faity community not 7 million strangers. But then thats just my rather length "opinion" |
| Yah, and for you easterners, it "Missourah" and for you Frenchmen, our ozark stream - Courtois - is pronounced Cotaway! not Cotwah
Back to the original subject, I have no problems wishing my Jewish and Moslem customers, Merry Christmas; they wish me happy Hanukah; many of them celebrate both holidays. And for the record to all of you Merry Christmas |
Ron wrote: Bailey's Mom wrote: if you want to live in an area, you should learn to speak the "official" language of that area. What's the official language in the Bayous of Louisiana? I was thinking in terms of the language on street signs, news broadcast etc. so that you understand "Do Not Enter", "One Way Traffic" and "Caution - Bridge Out Ahead". Enough to make sure you're not a danger to yourself and others. However, I doubt there are many directional signs in the Bayou... |
| But if I were going to take a stroll in the Bayou, I would definitely learn enough Cajun to say "Pardon me sir, are the gators feeling mean today?" and "Can you tell me where I can get some good Gumbo"? |
| So when you said that one should learn to speak the official language of the area, you meant "learn" as in "just enough to get by" rather than "fluency"?
I'm not being flippant (well, ok, just a little) but isn't that how much English the folks that are being complained about know?
sigh... I might really have to think about this now. A complex issue like this could drive me  |
Ron wrote: I'm not being flippant (well, ok, just a little) but isn't that how much English the folks that are being complained about know?
I can't speak for everywhere, but in southeastern Michigan, we have the highest Arab-American population in the US, which accounts for our high population of international students at the university. Many of them can write English very well but could care less about learning how to speak because they know when they finish their degree, they're just going to go back to their native countries. It's frustrating for people that have to work with them (in classes) as well as when they're served by them where they work. I think the level of communication necessary depends on the situation too. Everyone should know basic English, like Sue said, for safety reasons alone-- traffic signs, etc. After that, if someone wants to work or go to school here, there should be a higher level of fluency expected. What that is exactly, I don't know, but I do think that the TOEFL people are awfully generous in passing a lot of people along. It needs a lot more oral examination. I'm not sure if a lot of other universities are like this too but I know many people (not just one or two) that have had to drop classes because the instructor's English was so bad. It's impossible to learn without communication and it isn't fair to people who are trying to get an education that they paid for. Even if money can be refunded, time can't. |
| Back to the original subject which I started reading the post...just as a news story came on the news talking about the same thing.
Is it just me....or are the Christians the only ones that use a tree in their holiday celebration? Therefore it should be called a Christmas Tree! I come from a Jewish background...what's next are they going to start calling a Menorah a Holiday Candelabra? I just don't get all this PC BS! I do not get offended if someone wishes me A Merry Christmas...etc Growing up Jewish I feel I missed out on celebrating Christmas. I have celebrated Christmas....not really the whole religious aspect, but the Holiday where Santa visits everyone and brings toys for 15 years now. There is absolutely nothing religious about that portion of Christmas. I want my kids to grow up not missing out like I did. Even my Grandmother loved the idea of Christmas and her father bought the family a Hanukkah Bush...lol When there is another religious Holiday I will wish my friends a Happy Easter...etc I guess that would be inappropriate. JMHO As for where this topic has led. Well I feel if you go to a foreign land you NEED to learn to speak that language. It is only fair. Geez, I live in California and you would not believe how many people don't speak English. I go into the stores and everything is in English & Spanish. Do you think it's that way in Mexico? NO it's not. It is not my job to learn Spanish to communicate to my neighbors. It is their job to learn english if they are going to live here. I DO get offended when people start speaking Spanish to me. If I wanted to speak Spanish I would live in Mexico, South American or Spain. The scariest part is these people are driving cars. They can't read or speak English, nor do they have licenses. I don't feel I am being prejudice. If I go to Mexico I will do my best to speak Spanish and do not expect people to speak english. I also get offended when I go to a school meeting and there is someone there translating for these non English speaking people. Everything that is said is then translated for these people, wasting more of my time. If their kids are speaking English. why aren't they? They are here to give their families a better life in a different country... Well they need to wake up because this is a different country, this in NOT Mexico this is the USA! If you don't want to speak the language.....GO HOME! JMO... Hope I didn't offend anyone In parting, Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanza etc etc etc Elissa |
The last thread I posted on pertaining to religion ended up being locked, so I'll only say a couple things.  JMPO
1. I believe the Lord Jesus Christ is our Saviour and I am a born again Christian. 2. The date of His birth is not Dec. 25th, according to scripture its in Sept. 3. His birth was to fulfill prophecy. His death was that we may be saved. Of the two, this is the most important. You can go to Yahoo Search and type in "Origin of Christmas" to find several interesting facts about the true origin of the Christmas celebration. As for speaking English in America. YES!!! To add to some of the other comments, it ticks me off trying to read an instruction sheet now days. The English version is three sentences in a 5 page booklet and I think someone that speaks a foreign language wrote the English version! As for driving. Many many years ago I was taking my written test and another lady came in to take hers. Her husband got permission to read the questions to her (in English) and she took the test. And, bring our jobs back home!!! |
| Mouthy--do you celebrate Christmas in Sept (honest question, not being flip)?
As for the driving and not speaking the language, I'm not as bothered by that as some things...I mean, isn't that one reason they have international symbols for Stop, Yield, etc.? The speed limit signs should be fairly obvious. They just might not understand what all the street names mean. Besides, have you ever taken a cab in Tijuana! Those are Mexican drivers driving on Mexican streets with street signs in their birth-language. Holy guacamole! A little frightening! Having lived 99% of my life in a border state, this issue has been around me for as long as I can remember. As for the language issue, one of my only sources of insight into this is my parents' housekeeper. She's lived in America for many years (at least since her sons were born--they are now 25 and 22, so a long time and they were born here) and she doesn't speak English very well. She understands it alright, but you would think that for someone to live in this country for that long, their skills would be better. Well, she lives in a part of town that is mostly Hispanic, where more signs are in Spanish than in English. It is almost like a separate country in that aspect. So she goes out into the world and cleans people's houses, but then each night goes home to this neighborhood where everyone speaks Spanish (her husband, neighbors, etc). Many home owners do not speak to their housekeepers very much, if at all, aside from telling them to clean the bedroom better, or whatever. So basically, she can get by without having spoken a word of English. Also, she told me that many people in her position (immigrant-wise, not job-wise--she has become a citizen) rely on their kids. They see their move to America as not something that will necessarily improve their lives, but it will improve the lives of their kids. Their kids (who are American citizens) go to school here, and speak English. So my housekeeper relies on her sons to do a lot of translating for her and she says her friends do too. She figures she can go through life this way (without learning English) and manage--which she has. Many older people don't want to lose their heritage, which doesn't mean they aren't happy and grateful to be in this country, but it IS a giant change and it is comforting to hold on to some things from the past. |
| I am in complete agreement with Elissa. You want to live here, go to school here then you had better be able to carry on a conversation in English. Just not know a few words to get by.
Also if you are coming to the country to go to school and then you are going to high tail it back to your country to use your education there, then stay there and go to school. Why should we open up places in our universities for these people when we have citizens who are more than willing to take these courses and stay in the country to work. Drives me mad. I would say that 30% of the population of students at the the U of A are foriegners that will not be staying in Canada to use their degree. CRAP, pure crap. |
| When in Rome, speak Italian...when in America, speak English... |
| Happy Hanukkah Elissa....I have a girlfriend that has converted to Jewdism...she and her husband also put up a Hanukkah bush..lol...and flock it and decorate it in blue and silver...its beautiful....but its Santa that puts the gifts under the bush..... |
barney1 wrote: .......Mouthy--do you celebrate Christmas in Sept (honest question, not being flip)?..........
No offense taken. jmpo No, I don't celebrate Christmas in September. Its celebrated on Dec. 25th.
I was just pointing out the fact that that isn't really when Christ was born. |
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