overly submissive behavior
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| Hi Valerie,
I'm no dog expert.. but here are my two cents. If Gigi is the rescue that you are thinking about getting..Gosh knows what happened to her prior to coming into rescue. Once she is in a secure, non threatening environment this behaviour will probably change. It will probably take awhile, but once she feels more secure, you might be surprised at how lively and outgoing she will become. I am only basing this on my personal exerience with my Murphy who we rescued 18 months ago. Brenda. |
| Since Chum is so easy-going, maybe that would help Gigi relax. How is Chum around other dogs at the dog park? Do you think she would accept another dog in the house?
Having a wet mouth dog myself, that's the only thing that would MAYBE cause me to reconsider. When they shake their head - YUCK!! All over EVERYTHING - furniture, walls, floors. Good luck! Keep us posted! Chris |
| chum is generally neutral and uninterested in other dogs (she loves people) but every once in a while she acts playful -- and more so now that the weather is colder. she barks to keep puppy feet off of her. i just don't know what she would want. i will assess by her reaction. we are going to meet her tomorrow.
chum's mouth is wet too.  mostly from dunking in the water bowl. what causes drezzie's wetness? |
| Abby was terrified of everything, and SO submissive, when we first got her. It didn't take long at all, just letting her go at her own pace, allowing her to get used to her surroundings and the people and other pets. She came around quickly, and it was the most amazing feeling to see her wag her tail to greet us, or how very happy she looked just to get petted or be told good girl.
I've had dogs take much longer to come around, but it's always worth it. Some may be submissive for life, but I think as far as peeing etc, the best bet is to make greetings as toned down as possible. |
| Not sure what caused Drez to be a wet mouth. She pants a lot and is wet from that, plus from drinking. But when you see her, I'll show you the side of her bottom lip - it dips down, like where should catch saliva/drool.
Love her to bits anyway! And can't wait to hear how your meeting with Gigi goes. Chris |
| She may have had a stroke at some point that caused that? |
| Loose Flews...? |
| Speaking of Abby.... and submissive... I "thought" she was totally over that, but today when someone came to see the pups she just curled up in a corner. She has never done that with other visitors, she has always seemed very comfortable. I'm guessing the pup should not go to that person... but it bothered me to see her revert like that. |
| Abby could have associated the person with some past experience that she had..maybe the persons's hat, coat, smell or something reminded her of something that had prompted her to be submissive before. I wouldn't worry about it. Sometimes people act in a manner that appears threatening to a dog without knowing it. My cousin is a gentle soul, and every time he comes to my hosue one of my dogs barks and growls at him, and is actually frightened of him. He is not a dog-person, and when she first used to respond that way he would just stare at her. When I realized what he was doing I asked him to ignore her. However, she still does not like him, because of how he used to act with her...purely by accident. He is a really nice guy, who does tons of volunteer work for a wild animal sancturay, and knows to be very gentle and soothing to them. But the whole staring thing branded him as having threatened her before, and she will not forgive him. sigh. |
| Val -I'm anxious to hear how your meeting with Gigi went today?
As for submissive behavior, the girl I foster about two months ago was like that at first, too. She overcame it pretty quickly with calm reassurance. She came from a loving home, it was just in her personality. Sweetest thing - I loved her to pieces.  |
| It's funny actually. Despite what I was told, she doesn't seem particularly submissive or scared. She is jumpy and overly alert to sounds but in a kind of way that suggests she thinks she is alpha and that it is her responsibility to handle stuff. She's not clear that she needs to heed my commands and that I am in charge. I have adopted "nothing in life is free" but she seems to be used to being on her own to the point where she's not really expecting anything from me. That should improve in time with feeding and walks. And she is very bothersome to the cat. Both Chumley and Miles (the cat) seem very annoyed. I'm having doubts but I will give it some time to see if it settles down in a way that's good for everyone. Any advice very welcome. |
Quote: Despite what I was told, she doesn't seem particularly submissive or scared. If she comes from a shelter her behavior will be very different in a home. Or if she was in foster care it takes days, weeks , sometimes months to settle into normal behavior. Quote: She is jumpy and overly alert to sounds but in a kind of way that suggests she thinks she is alpha and that it is her responsibility to handle stuff. Sounds like in a new environment she is a bit skittish and on edge. She is on her guard so may be feeling a bit defensive. She doesn't know that she need not have any fear of harm. As far as she knows she can only trust her instincts, so she is reacting. Quote: She's not clear that she needs to heed my commands and that I am in charge. I have adopted "nothing in life is free" but she seems to be used to being on her own to the point where she's not really expecting anything from me. That should improve in time with feeding and walks. In one of Suzanne Clothier's books she says that in a new place dogs ask three things. "Whose in charge?", "What are the rules?" and "Where do I fit in?" Patience and consistency will help her settle in, with exposure to new things being done slowly and gently. She doesn't know you, where she is or if she is safe. Leadership is earned, and you can earn her trust by letting her know what you expect of her, in a way she can understand. Perception is reality to her, so try to see how things must look from her standpoint. Treat her like a puppy what has not had any training, and doesn't understand anything you ask. Pretend she was raised in a french-speaking home, so any words you use are unknown to her. Quote: And she is very bothersome to the cat. Both Chumley and Miles (the cat) seem very annoyed. Keep them separated. At this point she may be feeling threatened, or uncomfortable, so say the least. Give her time and let her learn that you will not hurt her, and you are there for her. She needs to see you as ready to protect her from scary things. Chumley and Miles get vibes from you, and may be reading your body language as being unsure. Act confident and in control, as they can follow your cue. Quote: Any advice very welcome.
Any time! |
| Good stuff! I really appreciate your advice. This is one of those messages wish I could flag to come back to again. . . |
| Hi,
That was excellent advice from everyone so far!!. Good stuff! Valerie, hang in there and although it sometimes seems like an enternity, as each day passes you will see improvements in her behavior. The submissive peeing I would have to agree is not knowing her place in the pack and being very unsure of herself. She views you as Alpha however, if she is rolling on her back when you are around. With time, she will see you are a nice but firm Alpha and not mean. Intrestingly enough, I once read that in a wolf pack if the Alpha is deemed too mean, the other wolves will get together and oust him out. That is rare however and most Alphas just rule with firmness in order to let everyone know their place. Wolves/Dogs accept this as part of their way of life. With Gigi, perhaps she has only experienced a very unfair and mean Alpha (human) in her previous household. She may have had no choice in terms of who the Alpha was. This is not really meant to be insulting to her previous owners but many people that have dogs don't understand dog behaviour or mentality. Yelling, screaming ..when a dog does something wrong , that sort of thing, causes the dog to be anxious and not know what is considered the right behavior in the pack and may cause the submissive peeing or other behaviors. The humans may continue to yell or scream and thus it sets in a pattern with a dog that may have been more gentle in nature. Being firm and dropping that voice a few octaves would have been far more appropriate. It's only guess work on my part however, as to why Gigi may be doing this. My friend is going through exactly the same thing at the moment with her new rescue, a beautiful Sheltie that was returned to her breeder. Her other dog is well adjusted and she's hoping the new one will pick up clues from her resident dog as they do learn from each other. It's so bad at her household that she hasn't been able to invite anyone over since the summer as the dog does a submissive peeing when anyone comes over. It's getting better however, and with patience I have gone over a few times and greeted her dog on her front lawn. Rescues sometimes come with issues and who knows what occurred in their lives before they came into ours. If Gigi came from a family envioronment but perhaps it was an extremely noisy one and one where as Bosley's mom mentioned she didn't know her place in the pack. Again, with time and patience she will view you as a firm but loving Alpha and those behaviors should subside. I should mention my Shaggy (now passed) did the submissive peeing when she first arrived. My ex used to yell..nooooo when she did this , which in retrospect only exhasperated the situation. Once she felt safe and comfortable..that behavior dissapeared. Good luck to you! Marianne and the boys |
| I think she must have come from a noisy environment because she has a hard time tuning out background noise, but she is getting better every day. Her foster parent told me he had to go to elaborate methods to avoid riling her up and causing her to pee, but that hasn't happened at all with me. She's a bit growly and obstinate but even that is happening less and less and it hasn't even been a week. I think she is settling into and starting to enjoy my cozy, quiet lifestyle. And I just love seeing her playing at the park. She has the time of her life with the other doggies and is learning some good people skills from Chumley too.
I really appreciate all the advice and encouragement we are receiving. It is frustrating at times and I have to wonder why I brought this on myself, so everyone's support really helps alot. |
| Hang in there - soon enough you won't remember the frustration. And if you do, think of the Butthead, it could be worse.
Seriously, it sounds like she's settling in. Don't you just love how they learn from other dogs? Kayli has been a model citizen (except for biting the first trainer) since Bentley came to the house. She sits, downs and comes immediately as if to say, "this is how it's done!" |
| i suggest rubber mats on the floor and time. this will allow for the behavior to change without dying your carpet yellow. |
| It's nice to see that there's a lot of good advise there!
Whe we received Sofa, she also had a very submissive attitude and was afraid of everything. Later we found out she came from an abusive home and we worked out some therapy for her to let her gain confidence, she also peed when we took her out, talked in a loud voice or raised ou arms. She was afraid of people pounding stuff, so Danita held her while I softly pounded a bag of ice against the floor. After a few days, we could pound harder and harder and she started fearing less until it was gone. The same thing happened with Frida and her fear to brooms, we used the same approach of holding and talking to her while we got closer with the broom until she allowed it to touch her. A few days later, she tolerates it very well. What we learned hre is that if you find very submissive behaviour, we worked to finding the cause and then exposing the dog to the same stimulation, very mild at first and in a secure environment until we could increase the intensity. A time will come when the dog realized there is no threat and will accept the stimulation. It worked very well in our case, I'm afraid too well! Now Lennon rules the house until Sofa wants to, then she's Alpha and bosses Lennon around the house, just like many married couples here in Mexico... They are funny! |
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