Visit to Puppymill Country
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That must have been very emotional and difficult for you Kaye, but I think it's wonderful that you went, and saved Major, and learned so much. I would love to hear all about it. Information is a tool, it can help people learn, it can inspire people to take action. Good for you Kaye!  |
| Kaye-
I too would like to hear more information on what you learned. Especially how they go about trying to shut these places down. My parents are involved in another breed rescue group, and they found an animal control facility that is just absolutely awful. The rescue lost a puppy to parvo because of this place. The group is trying to get them either shut down or cleaned up. I have seen a couple of questionable facilities myself, and I really want to know how to get these places cleaned up or shut down. Thanks for sharing your experience. Sue |
| Hi,
How brave of you to go and see firsthand and how terrible at the same time. It's like those that say they couldn't visit an animal shelter as that would be too difficult for them to go. I do understand that mentality and know it's tough to view the faces first hand which need homes and have to walk out of there..leaving so many behind. I force myself to go but it's no where near the experience I'm sure of seeing a puppy mill first hand..I couldn't imagine the sadness and anger you go through seeing something like that. Keep up the work you are doing as without those out there like you...well you help so much and feel free to vent anytime in here. We all admire you. Marianne and the boys |
| Puppy Mill or Commercial Breeder Auction
http://www.timesreporter.com/left.php?ID=47757&r=0 It is not difficult to imagine the suffering of these babies who are "used to it". |
| You know, it is a truly horrible thought...
I wonder though why some of these people only think of them as a "cash crop". I wonder why these people only think of them like cattle or chickens, and do not consider themselves any different from any other livestock farmer? We don't generally have cows or chickens as pets, so it doesn't bother most to hear about the way they spend their lives before they hit our supper table. Most don't bother to hear. If the people who run these kinds of operations really don't think they are doing anything wrong, maybe our best efforts would be to attempt to teach them why we believe it is wrong. |
“Puppy millers – that’s a big controversy going on right now,” Raber said. “I am currently the president of the Ohio Pro Dog Breeders Assn. and in our opinion there is no such thing as a puppy mill.”
 OOHHH that really just ticks me off. Maybe Kaye should send him some pictures. He just doesn't want to admit there's a problem. Yes it's hard to understand how they can just treat them like livestock. |
| I like the fact that just because complaints have dropped they think the problem is better. They gave the reason for the drop in complaints in the next paragraph. The 'breeders' are subverting the public eye and dealing directly with the pet shops. Out of sight, out of mind. Duh....
The one thing that every single person here can do, no matter where you live, what your profession, how much time you can give, is tell every single one of your friends, every single person you meet that even thinks about dogs, that they should never, ever, ever buy a dog from a pet shop. Don't even think about a dog from a pet shop. Now, for the real world perspective, Jill and I are in the same boat, we bought dogs from a pet shop because we felt sorry for them and their conditions. I would never give up the dog that I bought in that manner and I'm sure she wouldn't either but, for this whole situation to stop, we can't do that anymore. These people have to lose money. It's the only thing they understand. They do dogs because they are more profitable than cows, chickens, whatever. Once they are no longer profitable, they are no longer worth it. (Even though they don't put much effort into it anyway!) If we are lucky, dogs will get turned over to rescues but I am afraid that there may be "casualties" along the way. It takes strength to let some fall in order to make things better. We are witnessing this right now with friends and family defending our way of life in the middle east. It's a hard and rough road that lays ahead of us. |
| I can smell the attack from here, and I don't blame anyone for doing it, but if I were faced with a similar situation again, I'd probably do it again if I had to. Principles or not, and I understand completely of the reasons why I shouldn't, I find it hard to walk away. Every life is important and, though I understand the greater good, it's a tough line for me to cross. I'd like to say that my ideals would hold up but I think my emotions would make me cave if I saw a baby in need.
Even Clyde was a tough choice to make. Clyde didn't come from a puppy mill. He was sold to the pet store by someone who didn't want a puppy and, from what I could gather, would lose their money if they returned him to the breeder. His previous owners altered his papers (read: actually whited things out) a bit and took him to the pet store so they could recover some of what they spent. I had originally heard about him from a friend of a friend but he was gone by the time I found the person who had him, who told me where he was. I went to the store just to "see" him. What I saw was Clyde in a tiny cage sitting in his own poop all day, no exercise, no love. I went home completely upset and sad that he was there. I was torn because it went against my principles to buy him but it definitely went against my principles to leave him there too. Catch 22. I hated the idea of encouraging sales and adding to the problem. I, no exaggeration, did not sleep all night and I lied awake thinking about what I should do. Finally, I woke James up at 6 in the morning (who was thrilled to be woken up to be given a talk about saving lives and principles!) and told him I couldn't leave him there and that we had to go get him. I don't and have never regretted what I did. Would I have rather the situation been different? Absolutely. It still bothers me to think that, technically, he came from a pet store and that I helped perpetuate that but, at the same time, it's not fair that Clyde got dealt a lousy hand early in life either. I could save him so I did. I applaud everyone who can stick to their beliefs strongly and not back down. You're better people than me. I try my best to stay out of situations like this that pit my principles and emotions against each other because, although I may know it's wrong, my emotions are going to win every time. Ask me how many "rescue" trips I've taken this year for dogs that weren't for me-- and I don't even do rescue, per say! I just can't say no to an animal that needs help, especially if I have the means. |
Quote: I can smell the attack from here, and I don't blame anyone for doing it
I don't think anyone will attack you. We would all fall for a sad, sad little thing. The mills and pet stores play on that and use it to their advantage. That's why I don't step foot in a pet store that sell puppies and kittens. Out of sight, out of mind, and they do not get any of my business. Kind of a personal boycott, I guess. Only the stores that sell ONLY pet food and supplies get my money. Many stores have stopped selling pets because of the pressure from the general public. If noone shopped for anything in their stores for that reason they may very well change their ways. BTW, same reason I only go to shelters when I am springing a particular dog and taking it into rescue. If I didn't have another reason to be there I'd probably have a few extra mouths to feed in my kitchen. |
| No personal attacks Jill, like I said, same boat! Poor Norman was in a cage that was half the size that he was and my husband couldn't walk away. That's why I echo what Bosley's mom said, if we don't even go near a pet store that sells animals that temptation, so to say, won't be there. I don't go near them because I find it hard to resist too. That's the ptoblem, their tactics work too well.
We shouldn't be supporting them by buying any products from their stores. Remember commerce is what drives people. Let them know that you won't patronize their stores because of the fact that they sell animals. A local pet store used to sell dogs and cats, then the owner realized what he was doing and now fills his cages with rescues. (He also recently expanded and improved the facilities where these animals are housed.) He has cages designated for each local rescue and humane society. He also hosts monthly fundraisers for those organizations. His business has skyrocketed since he did this! I congratulate him for the choices that he's made and hope he does well in the coming years. We need more people like that shopowner! |
| No, no, I wasn't implying that I had been attacked, Mandy, it was more of a disclaimer for what I was about to say. I agree, I certainly don't frequent anywhere that temptation may exist and I almost cringe every time someone posts a dog in need on Petfinder (and so does James-- he told me to stop looking because we end up arguing about more animals every time!). I understand the reasoning and how every purchase perpetuates the situation. To put it bluntly, the whole situation just sucks. It's really a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing. It's hard to wait for things to change when you can offer a quick fix, even knowing it's like patching a dam with a band aid. |
| . After finding out that Major has Prostrate Cancer has only made me madder...He was used for breeding until recently because he couldn't breed anymore...So out the door he went... He is 9 years old...Has had ear infections so bad for so long he is deaf..So I don't want to hear from any puppymiller or commercial breeder about how well taken care of their dogs are...... I was really confused about rescue in general when we got back from our trip to Missouri....I saw a totally different kind of rescue when I was there.I just thought I was rescuing in the trenches........There are 3 different kinds of rescue......There are the rescues that will only rescue up to a certain age purebreds without a tail.....I can understand that and except that...I am not condemning them.....Those Babies are highly placeable..... We chose a different route........There are a couple of rescues that do this.... What I thought was In The Trenches Rescue....Working with Kill Shelters and Taking athe Old Ones with Health Problems.....I am a Bleeding Heart Tree Hugger that is always for the underddog.......I wanted those that no else would take...... That is My Choice.......... But, Now after seeing what these people in Missouri are doing first hand.............We are just a Middle of the Road Rescue..... and not in the trenches........ I have talked to the IRS and our 501c3 will be approved soon......So now I am at a fork in the road of making a decision of which way to take this rescue org....I'm Mad right now over Major......So I am not really thinking straight.......I want to go to Missouri and bust some puppymills.......Probally if I didn't have a Husband that has to be taken care of that is where I would be...... So as you can see I don't have this straight in my head yet........IT is easy to set back and say Don't put Money in their pocket and that will stop them.....Don't buy a puppy from a Petstore and that will stop them.....Just ignore them and they will go away.THEY ARE EVERYWHERE!!!!!!! Their on the internet presenting themselves as good breeders....The Flood Gates are Open.......Education of the General Public is the only way I can see...... It is easy to set back and Do Nothing!!!!!!!!!! I am just not turned that way...........Kaye |
| Can I ask a dumb question?
Are those pet adoptions they do at Petsmart okay to get pets from? Or are they just cleverly disguised pet store adoptions? |
| Most of the times when they have "adoption day" the rescue group holding it is pretty well represented from what I've seen. I don't think they're shifty but maybe someone else knows something I don't. |
| Differnt org. like Humane Society or ASPA will have adoption days at these Pet Stores. They have nothing to do with puppymills or comercials breeders.....They are just trying to find homes for some Babies that they have rescued....... They are trying......Kaye |
| After a couple of conversations today with people in Missouri figured out what is going on in the name of rescue.... The women that had listed Major and 2 young OES on Petfinder is a broker........She buys from puppymills and commercial breeders at a good price.....She then goes on Petfinder and lists them for adoption.Depending on what she pays for the puppy is what she charges.. In the State of Missouri a Rescue License is Free......So she does have a rescue license.......A Brokers License cost...She is a Puppy Broker........ The breeder knew that Major was sick and the breeder just thru him in the deal......Then when she found out that he was sick she dumped him on someone that really Has A Rescue Heart.......This is where he was at when I picked him up........ So the lesson learned in this mess is.....If someone shows up on Petfinder that you haven't heard of before or is asking a price right up front....or doesn't have a webpage and adoption application and adoption contract you are probally dealing with a broker.....How she got around Petfinders requirements is that she has a rescue license........This women is doing this mostly with the smaller breeds...She says they sell better and doesn't cost s much to feed and take up less room...... It has taken me a week to get to the truth of what all was going on.I knew something was wrong but no one would tell me the truth until today........ So as in breeding it is Buyer Beware!!!!!!!!! So now in Rescue it is Adopter Beware......These are puppies straight from a puppymill or commercial broker or dog auction that have lived in a cage and are not socialized..So what these people are doing is WRONG in THE NAME OF RESCUE........They will tell you a story about rescuing the Babies from a Life of Hell......When in fact they are BUYING AND SELLING!!!!!!!!!!!! Kaye |
barney1 wrote: Can I ask a dumb question?
Are those pet adoptions they do at Petsmart okay to get pets from? Or are they just cleverly disguised pet store adoptions? I vol. with a german shepherd rescue (but will go to help any dog, our rescue takes mixes and that is how I got my OES puppy, someone knew I did rescue) we do adoptions at pet smart, we are in Maryland, all the rescues that come in for adoption days are all rescues. Some dogs that are "rescued" may come from puppy mills that are later dumped but I have never known about "puppy mills or crooked dealers" being there I suppose it could happen but as far as I know there are only rescues that want to place them in a good home. This was not a dumb question! none of us want to promote puppy mills. Our rescue does a vet check, 2 references and a home visit ( we require all family members and pets alike to be present for the home visit)before placing a dog.) We also want other pets in the home to meet the dog to make sure they get along. We want our dogs to find their forever homes! I would love to mention our rescues web site but I don't know if I can I don't want to be thrown off this forum !!! It is so helpful. Kind of addicting!! I have not had a sheepy in years and it has been soooo helpful. Now if I can figure out how to post Pics. |
| Just wanted to weigh in on the PetsMart adoption question. Our local Petsmart rescue is run by Tails of Hope. It is truly a rescue. They take in many animals whose owners have passed away, or have become too ill to care for their pets, so most of their dogs and cats have been in homes where they were cared for. They do also take in some strays, but all of the dogs are fostered, so they get a little training if needed, and a lot of love and socialization.
Tails of Hope has a reputation for being strict on their placements. Here they require a home visit, as well as an extensive family history on the adoption application, so they do a very thorough job. They err on the side of caution, preferring to leave a dog in a foster home, rather than place him or her in a poor situation. I certainly hope that all PetsMart's rescue operations are like the one here. |
| The Petsmarts I've been involved with do true rescue and adoption. They have no involvement with buying or selling pets. They just offer a place for local organizations to make pets available. |
| I used to work at PetSmart, and they only allow specific organsations to use their facilities for adoption. They have to go through some strict screening to get approved as a PetSmart Charity. The PetSmart staff may help with the animals, but it is the rescue group that does the actual adoptions. |
| Talked to 2 differnt all breed rescues in SW Missouri that went to dog auctions yesterday. There are 5 dog auctions in Missouri now.......They bought ones that did not sell at the auction..The Commercial Breeders and Puppymillers would not take them back home with them.SO they paid them what it cost to list them in the auction.........To keep from having them KILLED......They were contacting rescues to take them.......Mostly small breeds......This is how we got Rumba, Tango, Cha Cha and Mo Molly.......There were no Old English in the ones they saved.........Is that putting Money in the Puppymills or Commercail Breeders Pocket????????I don't think So........This is My Opinion........Kaye Second Chance OES Rescue |
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