Misbehaving Children and Spanking (Corporal Punishment)
Tasker's Mom wrote: I'm often places where kids are allowed and pets aren't and think.......my dogs are better behaved than THAT!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to totally agree with this......but to say anymore would require a whole other posting topic |
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Tasker's Mom wrote: I'm often places where kids are allowed and pets aren't and think.......my dogs are better behaved than THAT!!!!!!!!!!!
*hangs head in shame* That would be my 2 year old. I NEVER in my life dreamed I'd have a child like him. He's been kicked out of the church nursery, kicked out of a resturant, gotten a warning at preschool already... My 4 yr old is right the opposite - he's as sweet and helpful as can be. I didn't do anything to make Brandon this way, and unless you've had a child like him, I'm not sure anyone could really understand. It's not from lack of inconsistency, punishment, attention, or anything. It's just how he is. I actually have an appointment with a child behaviorist to discuss him in a couple of weeks. He is way out of control, and I just don't know why or what to do about it. He does have allergies, so the doctors are thinking maybe it's allergy related - just a hidden allergy we don't know about. He is EXTREMELY routine-based. That's what sets him off most of the time...doing something different from is routine. He's had a routine (that he set) since a newborn. Even "reward" things like going to see a movie, going to McDonald's to get Happy Meals and play, etc... sets him off into his "rages". He is an angel at home, and even at his worst, he does say yes/no ma'am/sir, excuse me, thank you, etc... It is VERY stressful having a child like him. I've done what I can, what the pedi has recommended, and the child behaviorist is our last grasping straw. If she can't help, I'm not sure what we'll do. Anyway, just wanted to say - it's not necessarily the parent's fault. Some kids (like Brandon) are pre-wired this way. The best example of other kids like him that I can think of is "The Strong Willed Child" by Dr. James Dobson. Unfortuantely, it doesn't seem like anything can solve it but time and patience according to the book.... |
| There are difinitely exceptions and your son may be one so please don't be offended. JMPO's about my own personal dealings with children like this, but not referring to your son. What I've told my family members that now have or had this problem is "Beat his butt. That time out stuff is not gonna work!" Eventually, they find this out after going several years torturing themselves, the child and others.
Most of the kids I've seen like this "are" seeking attention. They're not satisfied with the attention they're getting, its lacking something. As dumb as it may sound, kids find reassurance in punishment. They know they were wrong and it shows them you really care, even though they don't agree at the time. And, they keep pushing until they get it. These kids always have this long debate with the parents rather than the parents saying "What'd I tell you!" At that time the kid is suppose to trot off to do it. I don't mean "beat" in the harshest form of the word, just an expression, but I do mean use a paddle and control how hard you swat. I used one of those toy wooden ping pong paddles with the ball attached to it with the rubberband. Don't know if they still sell those or not. lol Consistency is the key. You don't have to "beat" them often once they know you're serious about it. Then you just have to threaten and they're more eager to obey. JMPO's as told to family members when asked. I would not dare tell someone I don't how to raise their child.    |
JakeandBrandonsmom: no need to hang your head in shome  we've all been there!!! I have the luxery of being way past the child rearing age and I can afford to compare my puppies to kids (wait til I have grandchildren)
mouthypf: I guess we all have our own child rearing philosophies and do what we think is best. I have raised my own two children and three step children, all turned out pretty well. I have never struck a child. But since this is a dog forum and not a child rearing forum I guess we leave that discussion for another place
Started to comment on the whole smoking thing but....... decided not to go there
How did we go from sneaking a dog into a restaurant to here???? 
Gota LOVE IT!!! Guess that is why this is called FOOD FOR THOUGHT!! |
| You know, it might not be the actual physical action of paddling that makes it such an effective method of discipline. My friends and I were always terrified that we would do something to warrant getting paddled and were therefor pretty good kids. None of our parents ever touched us but we still had "the fear of God" built into us. I think that's what a lot of people are missing now a days and why people think they can get away with so much. Not even mentioning how rude and ignorant kids are now. They know that no matter how nasty and obnoxious they are an adult can't do a thing to them or it will be child abuse and the adult will get in trouble. Very sad.
I also put a lot of faith in the Aunt Bea form of parenting. I grew up in a relatively small town where my family was very well known. I couldn't get away with anything, my parents knew what I did before I even got home because someone in the community called them to let them know what was going on. (You never knew who called either hence the nosy 'Aunt Bea' moniker!  )
The one thing that Hilary Clinton got right was that it does take a village to raise a child or sometimes an adult. If everyone held everyone else accountable for their actions we'd have a lot fewer problems in this world. |
FOr my kids their "punishment worse then death" was having to spend and ENTIRE weekend with ME cleaning the house  That was a WHOLE lot worse than spanking!! |
| We were spanked as kids, but honestly, I can only remember it happening maybe 5 times. And it was with the palm of the hand, no added materials. I remember one time my mom was so upset with us that she grabbed us all and spanked us and we laughed at her because it didn't hurt at all (unlike dad's!) and she got SO MAD!!
I don't advocate beating your children (obviously!) but I also do not think there is anything wrong with the occasional spanking and I agree that the decline in this practice has maybe led to some of the more current parenting problems. I worked as an before and after care person at an elementary school in high school through college, so basically seeing the kids in the generation after mine, but before my generation had kids. It was very interesting to see the difference in the attitudes of parents of these kids versus my parents and the parents of my friends growing up (who knows, some of this may be from having a more adult perspective than when I was younger and not able to see what my parents, etc. were really like) but there was just this different attitude. All I know is that my friends and I are not opposed to spanking our kids (when we start having kids) |
| I'm not opposed to them either. My 4 year old hardly gets spanked, my 2 year old gets them quite often. lol However, my 2 year old has a VERY, VERY, VERY high pain tolerance. It's to the extent we're wondering if he feels any pain at all. I mean, he fell in the driveway, broke his tooth in half, bit almost all the way into his lip, and he laughed? The only thing he said was "Look mom, blood...me need band-aid". It's hard to spank a child and get a reaction out of them when they have such a high pain tolerance! lol Spankings don't bother him a bit, no matter who is giving them. He'll get spanked and just look at you and say "all done?" and run off playing again.
He's an unusual kid anyway. He'll be 3 in December. He's been sick with colds twice, had a stomach bug once, and that's it! He spent his first two weeks of life in the hospital because he was premature & lungs weren't developed. He was given surfactant, then on a respirator for over a week. Then he got jaundice (had to go under bili-lights), a staph infection, sepsis (infection in his bloodstream), had RDS, apnea & bradycardia, reflux, and I don't know what all. He was a sick little boy. He was on two really strong meds...vancomycin and I can't remember the other but just as strong. He went into kidney failure Christmas morning because too much medicine got into his bloodstream. 6 days after that he was home with no complications but the reflux and apnea & bradycardia still. We call him our little "miracle" baby, because with all of that and being a preemie (7 lb 9 oz preemie but still a preemie, lol) on top of it, he probably shouldn't be here today.  I dunno...his pain tolerance, doing everything SO early, etc... he's gotten the nickname "super baby" from our family.
It just scares me. I don't know when he's hurt unless I see it happen, see the marks, or he comes to me bleeding. I don't know if he's ever had an ear infection (it hasn't been caught), because he doesn't hurt when he is sick, etc... I hope it's something he'll outgrow!  |
| I think todays generation of kids are toally out of control too, into drugs, crime etc...
Luckily I live in a small town, and although there are drugs in the highscools, we don't hear about wepaons etc... as you do now in the bigger cities. As far as spanking a child, I have nothing against it and agree wholeheartedly that sometimes that is the quickest way to get through to them and make the impression last. I have never spanked my daughter, she never needed it, but my sons I have. They have each been spanked probably less than 5 times each their whole lives, and they have been a HUGE handful for most of their lives. I probably should have spanked them more. Most of the time for punishment I take away priveleges, like tv, video games, favorite toys etc. In addition I usually make them write about what happened, why it happened, what was wrong about it, and what decision they should have made and should make next time....etc... For little kids though honestly I find that timeout "stuff" is useless. LOL It is so encouraged now as a method of discipline, but for most parents sending a kid to time out who's having a fit does nothing but aggravate both parent and child even further, then escalates to the point where neither parent nor child remember or care what the original punishment was for and it is now only a struggle for control. What a waste of a day that could otherwise be full of toddler smiles and giggles? My oldest 2 never had temper tantrums, but my third one did, once. He was 18 months old and just lost it. I don't remember why, but I told him enough of that and come and give mommy a hug, so he did, and we sat and read a story for a bit. That was it. Anyway, everyone has differing opinions on child rearing, and whatever works for you, your family and your children is best, not what someone else tells you is best. IMO, as long as a spanking is not done in anger, and you have a clear reason in mind and you think it will resolve the issue, then I agree with it. |
| I have mixed emotions on the whole spanking issue.Yes i do see kids in public and say "Man if that was my kid Id flick those little smart lips off that face!!"Then I think it all starts very young,I mean like as soon as the child is walking/crawling.When a child goes too do something that will hurt her/him that child needs too know right away,and effectly,not be like "Oh googoo dont touch that you might get a big OWWWIE"A parent needs to scare that small child,and be more strong like "NO!!!!Do not touch!!"and if this child goes back to do it again a little smack of the hand.I see new parents w/ their toddlers and I just wanna puck!!The child thinks its a game and keeps going back,come on already!!So the small child grows up too learn that when mommy/daddy say no dont touch that usually it is a game and that the child will get his/her way.For me tho on the other hand I was serverly abused both physically and mentally.For 16yrs every day i was slapped across the face,beat w/ a belt,beat w/ a hair brush,pulled around the house by my hair,literally be beaten til good ole mom got tired,so do I spank my kids?No,I dont have too.I showed them from very small when mommy says NO,it means NO.it doesnt mean lets keep pushing mom til she gives.Did i ever smack my kids hands?Of course I did.I honestly feel that spanking is a self gratifing *sp. act too make parents feel better.I think 80% of spankings are a reflex action of being mad and thats WRONG!My mom didnt have too have a reason to yank me off the floor by my hair and beat me w/ a belt she did it because for 1 she is sick in the head,and for 2. it was self gratifing again *sp?? I know in my case is extreme,but I feel if parents start ASAP the child grows up knowing dont mess w/ mom. I also live like Aunt Bea!!LOL!!My town has 1000 people in it!!LOL!!very differnt from when i was a kid in miami!!LOL!! |
| When my son (now 24) was about 4 he cried in a gift store 'til his dad bought a toy he wanted. My mom saw what happened and told him that crying isn't the way to get what he wants. His reply, "works for me !!" Funny how he never tried that with me. Kids know what works. Needless to say dad and I had a long talk. |
| There are very few topics that will spark me, and this happens to be one of them. I have 2 children, Ashlan is 8, and Joey is 5. I have spanked a very few times before, hand only, and even then was so ashamed of myself for it. We worked with time outs until between the ages of 2 and 3, and they worked very well with us, but to me, a time out is not put your young child in a corner or in a room by himself. It is a time to calm down and help your child put their emotions into words, and so they can pass the tantrum throwing stage and explain with they are angry, sad, or hurt. I think a child will only get away with what the parent allows them to, and will also follow a parents example faster than anything else.
Now that Ashlan and Joey are older they have they get grounded from certain things. We have a skate night or movie night for them, and they stay with Papa a night, those things are taken away, or a favorite toy. I very rarely have to ground them, they know if Mommy or Daddy say that we are going to do something, we are going to do it. CJ and I were both spanked as kids, and that really is the understatement of the week, so I am sure that has a lot to do with the how strongly we feel about how we raise our kids. I don't agree with spanking for my kids, but I also don't put other parents down for it. I think different things work for different kids. A friend of mine accidently insulted me the other day, she asked what I planned on doing with my life. She didn't mean it the way it came out, but at first I did take a little offense to it. I told her, I am doing it, I am raising my kids. She said yes, but what about in the next 5 or 10 years, and I still had the same answer.....raising my kids. I never imagined when I was growing up that I would have kids, and turn out to feel so "old-fashioned" about things. Although, as soon as I got pregnant, I quit my job to be a stay at home Mom. Now, almost 9 years later, Ashlan is in 2nd grade, Joey is in half day Kindergarten, and I plan on staying a housewife/full time Mom, and be there to take my kids to school, and pick them back up. My husband and family supports me 110%, and that is what counts. Well, enough rambling from me, I will step off my soap box, and let another person have a turn.....LOL Just so I can warn you ahead of time, another pet peeve.....people not buckling up their kids in car seats or otherwise, now that can get me going again. I could start another soap box rant on that one alone.
Stormi  |
| I grew up as a good child, I rarely got in trouble, but I also got neglected alot. I basically raised myself, and I never learned from my parents on how to raise children. My parents divorced when I was 2 yrs, and my grandparents raised me, but my grandma died of cancer when I was 9...so she was pretty sick for my childhood, and we lived in the country, and I went to a very small school. My dog was my best friend, I never played with dolls.
So I had to figure out what works for us, and what works with our children. Our daughter is much more sensitive to our feelings, and doesn't want to hurt us....so she behaves better, always has...but yes she got hands slapped for touching, or a diaper spank for a quick response to her bad things at the time...not done in anger...shock value I suppose. Our son, much more strong willed, tantrum type, bangs his head, slams doors, etc...now he is almost 5...these have all gone away, he hates to be ignored, he hates timeouts...that works well for him. If he gets no reaction he is less likely to do it again, as long as we show him alot of praise and love for the good things...he wants to please us. Now a neighbour of ours, has a little boy, he is MEAN spirited, he enjoys hurting others, punched Madleyn in the face giving her a bloody nose the first encounter with him. Ran Parker over with his bike, on purpose. Now that he has gone to school, he completely turned around, my kids were not allowed to play with him, but then one day this past summer they ran into each other. The dad said he's so much better, and all it took was school. Now he has moved but behaviour wise, I let him play with my kids again. So maybe your son will outgrow it, and meanwhile I hope you find what works for him. I always had to take Parkers favorite things away, his Blue's Clue's dog, and blankie...now we take away the tv priveleges, or V-smile. |
Stormi,being that I have friends also some times myself OR them can put  w/ you staying at home w/ your kids.For me when I got PG w/ my youngest Samantha I worked full time in a very busy ER down town Mpls.I loved my job and getting PG was not part of "MY" plan.Once I found out I kept working,but then soon after I found out I started having issues in my pregnacy like spotting,cramps infact my RN told me that "Dear you will miscarry,just call us when you do and come in!!"I thought Im not looseing this baby,so i took time off stayed in bed,and well of course Sam is here,altho it was an aweful 9months for me.Once Sam was 1yr old I went too back too work,i hated being home it was tough.I worked full time all the way until we moved here in Wi in Jan.Now im a stay at home mommy,and let me tell you Stormi it is hard!!I give you the up most respect,you've done this for the whole 8-9yrs MAN!!Your wonderwoman!!LOL!!Dont get me wrong I truely love being home when Sam gets home from school,and when my 17yr old comes home full of stories from school,helping w/ homework,and just being home for my kids,but it is tough and not just any mom can do it.Some times I feel like Im hanging by 1 string!!LOL!!One thing I do know Stormi is that your kids will be better ppl for it,and Im hoping my kids well be also.Also if I see ppl not buckle in their kids I can the police from my cell,it is so ignorant isnt it Stormi!!Big pet peeve for me is seeing a dog in the back of a truck when theres plenty of room in the cab!!grrrrr  |
| Okay, time for my 2 cents worth.
Stormi, I admire you for your conviction to stay home with your kids. This is what you want, this is what works for you, and that's great. But as Tanya said, not everyone can do it. I couldn't, for more reasons than one. First and foremost, we needed my income. We don't live extravagantly by any stretch of the imagination, but at that stage of our marriage, my husband's salary couldn't cover everything for very long. I was out for 6 months with Spencer. When Sarah was born, we were able to let me be home a little longer, 18 months. Second, I had worked ever since getting out of high school and it's a life I liked. I am NOT Suzy Homemaker. I could never spend a whole day just cleaning - just not my cup of tea. My house is clean, but not sparkling - never has been, never will be. So even if I did lots of stuff with the kids, there was still a lot of hours left in the day. A bored mom is not a happy mom. Since my kids are older than most of yours, there weren't as many day care options available then as there are for today's young parents. I always picked day cares that were home-based versus businesses. These home-based caregivers were stay-at-home moms themselves, earning a few extra dollars of their own, and their kids were my kids' ages, were in the same school, etc., so it worked out great. My kids did not miss out on going to pre-school, I took them to the YMCA for swimming classes, Spencer played township baseball for 10 years, Sarah was in both gymnastics and dance for 6 years, Spencer took drum lessons for 10 years (and plays to this day) and was in the school jazz band, Sarah took piano lessons for 10 years and was in the school chorus for 4 years. I reviewed schoolwork and homework with them every night, went to every school function, knew all their friends and their parents, was very much aware of all aspects of my kids' lives. I am a fairly strict disciplinarian, so they knew from day one how far they could push me - which wasn't very far. And yet, they love me. They have always talked very openly with me, never been behavior problems, always did well in school. I do not begrudge any mom for staying home with their children and I admire them for doing so because that is what is right for them, but I defy anyone to say that I was wrong for working or that my kids missed out on anything because I worked. Or that they are not as good people as children of stay at home moms. They are 2 very independent, intelligent people whom I have no qualms in sending off to society on their own. And a lot of that independence they learned from their working mom. Okay, so this was more than 2 cents worth - more like $5 worth!! This is, of course, my position on life and raising children. Not right for everyone, but right for us. Chris |
| Chris,
That was very nicely put! When I worked an elementary school during high school and college there were many kids who were there on a daily basis (which is fine--I actually loved staying late at school most of the time when I was a kid) but there were some kids who were there at 7am when we opened and were picked up past 6 (we closed at 5:30) and they cried when their parents went to take them home because they didn't know their parents very well (these were 2, 3, 4, 5 year old kids!). The worst part about it was some of the mothers of these kids didn't work. They were 'stay at home moms' but I guess spent the day getting their hair done, working out, and who knows what else, but I can't imagine what they were doing that they couldn't pick up their kids until that late! One mom sometimes even had us aftercare workers come home with them to babysit--while the mom was there! Crazy. My mom worked for most of my growing up. She still works. I thought it was fine--she left at a certain time, my dad drove us to school, and then we either took the school bus home or went with a friend and then (obviously when we were old enough) stayed home alone. My little brother says he was scarred from the experience (he's dramatic ) and they had just coined the term 'latch key kids" when he had just become one himself...I think we all turned out fine...saw our parents enough...mom still made cookies (actually rice krispy treats) for all the bake sales...made dinner for us every night...we ate together at the table every night, despite crazy sports and music schedules.
I also don't think there is one 'right' way or one 'wrong' way for raising kids. It all depends on the individuals involved. I think I would be bored to tears if I stayed home; however, I have not had kids yet (will my husband PLEASE stop asking!!! ) so I don't know how I'll feel when we get to that bridge...Maybe I feel like I'd be bored because my mom was always so active with working and still managing all our stuff that I would feel guilty for not leaving the house every day...Who knows! |
| I just can't imagine. I'm a SAHM, but my children are very seldom out of my sight. Jake is in preschool from MWF 8:30-11:30 and Brandon is in preschool on MW from 8:30-11:30. Jake is in it because he starts kindergarten next year (our district doesn't have a K4 program, and I feel he really needs it so he won't be behind next year), and Brandon is in it because of his separation issues with me. Also, when we enrolled him, I was pregnant so we basically put him in so I could have a chance to go to my ob/gyn appointments. I had a miscarriage at 3 months though. I was going to take Brandon out, but he LOVES school. It also gives me a chance to grocery shop, run errands, clean my house, etc...
Other than that time and the weekend or two a month my parents "kidnap" the boys (which I don't mind - some of my best childhood memories are weekends with MY grandparents), they are never, ever out of my sight. I couldn't imagine being a SAHM and not filling my days with them. Heck, I haven't even had a haircut since my 4 yr old was born much less anything else...lol |
| Oh and I just wanted to say my comments were directed to the post about the SAHMs who kids are in daycare all day long. Just didn't want to offend working parents. I was all set to go back to work after my daughter was born - had her pre-registered in daycare when I was 5 months pregnant. When she passed away, I had a c-section, and I didn't even take the full 6 weeks post-op off work - I went back to work after 3 weeks.
However, when Jake entered into our lives, I knew there was NO way I would ever be comfortable leaving him. Having already lost a child to SIDS, I just HAD to be with Jakob every second (and yes, I was a little neurotic with him...lol). Either me or my hubby was awake and watching him every second of his life from the day we brought him home until he was a year old. Looking back, I realize how crazy it was, but it made me feel better then. lol We cut back a ton, cut back even more and then more...lol We do without a lot, but I'm really grateful we're in a position to where I can stay at home. I have a feeling this is my last year though. My husband has been asking me a lot in the past few months when I'm going to start looking for a job again. I think it's time though. I'm over the worrying crazy phase with both of them.
Oh...and even as a sahm, my house isn't sparkling clean. Not even close...lol The kids are just home longer to mess it up. I spent too much time playing with them to worry about small things. It's decent, can be made presentable for company in 5-10 mins most of the time, so I'm happy with that. lol |
| As a SAHM, when my son was about 3 a friend of the family was inquiring about me watching her child while she worked. During the interview, my son had something small, made of metal in his hand and was getting ready to stick it in the wall socket. I jumped up, grabbed and slapped his hand as I was "jumping him" and telling him why he can't do that. Needless to say, I didn't get the babysitting job, but my son is still alive and never did that again.
Another time we were in the car, he was in the backseat and decided to open the car door as we were turning off a busy road onto the road my mom lived on. She lived in the first house so he was "getting ready" so he could get out and run into the house. Well, he ran in ok, with my hand on his bottom and words streaming out of my mouth about how bad he scared me, how he could have been killed, etc....... He never did that again either. In cases like this, you only have moments to react. A slap on the hand or bottom will be remembered and make more of an impression. When I was growing up I got whipped occassionaly, and then grounded when I got older. The two times I will never forget is the time I got grounded for 3 months and the other was for one full year. It may sound harsh to some of you, but I can honestly say I deserved it and that I had the best parents in the world. We weren't whipped often, but we knew that dad would be home at 6pm and if you had done anything wrong you would be in for it. So, you made sure that you were either good or did everything in your power not to get caught. Kids now days just do whatever they want right in front of your face and don't think anything about it. Each of us has to look into our own past with eyes wide open, an open mind, and we'll find the answers to questions like "Why are kids today so differant from us?" I'm glad I can say I was never abused, but did get slapped on the bottom. Our son was brought up the same way we were and survived with no scars. Actually, he joined the National Guard to get medical training. Afterwards, he got a postition at the fire department as a paramedic/firefighter and is also a minister.
He is now raising three sons of his own and is finding out that their punishments hurt him a lot more than it does them. They started out with the time outs and have since found it necessary to include a swat on the bottom from time to time as well. 
I perfer the SAHM way of life, but respect both. Either way is tough, but rewarding. |
| I worked before the kids..liked it/hated it all at the same time.
Now being a SAHM...I have the same feelings. I am scared to go back to work...things don't stop while you take time off. But being at home all day you feel lonely, and isolated...least I do...I don't have any friends that are stay at home moms that I can have coffee with or visit with...Months will go by before I might get a call to come out. That is the part I hate, my closest friend lives 2 hours away, my aunts also live 2 hours-3 hours away. I have no mom, or sisters to call upon to watch the kids. It's my husband and me, 24/7...except when he's at work. he has brothers, and 1 sister (not close), his parents are also divorced. If I was working, I'd have adult companionship, someone to talk to rather than kids. I can go to the gym, but do my workout not make friends. The school, I've made aquaintences with my kids classmates/parents, they get playdates, but that's about it...it doesn't warrant saying come for BBQ...yet=D So aside from making extra money...which we need too...I enjoy my days at home, but what I should do is view staying at home as a job...making it a goal to be suzy homemaker....I know my family would love that. I'm just not that person...and I wish I was. Looking around I am amazed at how little I do around here, and feel somewhat ashamed of it. I give kudo's to the suzy homemakers, or the parents who work and still manage a home...I don't deserve the husband I have or the good kids I have, I've been cheating them of what a stay at home mom should be. I am so mad of not being taught how to manage a home, or raise children...I am treating my kids exactly the way I was treated....and that sucks for them. |
| 1st off IM LMAO@drezzies comment about not being a Suzy home maker!!LOL!! IM a SAHM and my goodness i cojldnt be anything further from that.Its funny tho how some moms can do it all.Like make everything pretty,make wonderful meals for breakfast,and dinner,and just do the whole SAHM w/ Marthas style.My family gets dinner(most of the time!!LOL!!)breakfast is instant oatmeal,cereal,or I buy Jimmy Deans pre made muffins w/ egg and cheese and a meat.For some reason I see Stormi being a SAHM that does it all,big breakfast,and dinner,and her house being a wonder world of pretty things.Am I close Stormi???hehe!! |
| It's very easy. If I want a flower to grow and become the most beautiful one I do not spank it. It's like I cannot for the love of God imagine Jesus spanking holy "material" as our children are. They are our gifts and needs to be treated with the utmost respect. |
| Looks like I may be the odd person out, here, and may not be very popular, but here goes! LOL
I do not agree with any kind of corporal punishment at all...Not for kids or pets....I don't believe in spanking, and actually I am not a big fan of punishment at all. I believe in lots of discipline and rules and patience and guiding and teaching....but I do not hit, threaten or frighten animals or children. I have two boys, 17 and 14, and 3 dogs. I am a foster home for dogs and kids. Most of the kids that I encounter have behavioral problems because they have not been shown how to communicate, and have not been given the opportunity to learn how to be respected and to respect. They are are terribly misunderstood and have lost the ability to trust. I strongly feel that any type of physical force is used when the one doing the delivery is at a loss for any alternate way of coping. Not anyone's fault, if they don't know any other way. My first boy was a dream child. Hubby and I used to see busy, unruly, misbehaving children and would think that the parents just didn't know how to parent. Then we had our second. If we had him first we would never have had a second child. He was a total handful, and if he had been with some other family he very may have been put on drugs or spanked very often. We were very patient with him, and tweaked our style, and got through it all. We all survived and are a still a non-violent household. I was in an abusive relationship as an adult and I cannot understand why it is such a crime for an adult to strike an adult, but it is OK for an adult to strike an small child. Beats me where this logic came from. But that's my opnion, and to each his own I guess : ) |
Bosley's mom wrote: I do not agree with any kind of corporal punishment at all...Not for kids or pets....I don't believe in spanking, and actually I am not a big fan of punishment at all. I believe in lots of discipline and rules and patience and guiding and teaching....but I do not hit, threaten or frighten animals or children. : )
I've been reading this post but trying to keep my fingers silent (or as silent as my fingers can ever be ) because my kids are grown now and it's always easier to say what you"should" do when you aren't in the thick of it. But I cannot imagine a situation where hitting a child would ever, EVER be acceptable. Don't confuse that with lack of discipline. My kids were very well disciplined, just never NEVER spanked.
We live in a world where we are surrounded by physical violence and pain. I know it's a huge leap from spanking a child to soldiers dying Iraq but if the first "problem solving" a child learns is physical pain doesn't that set a precedent for life? Those early lessons are so very important and if one of the first things a child learns is that unacceptable behavior is met with physical pain what hope do we have for a world where problems are solved any other way? Please, I do not mean to offend any of you. I know with all my heart that you are all loving caring parents who want only the best for your children. But maybe we have to go back to something as basic as child rearing to discover why it is that war and killing and inflicting pain seem to be the only way that countries can solve their differences. |
| This subject is something I know too much about.
My son Ryan is developmentally delayed. He did not walk or talk until he was 3 1/2 years old. Because he couldn't not communicate I didn't know what he understood and what he didn't. He would get frustrated because he could not express himself and would bang his head against whatever was closest to him, me, the floor, the wall. He would also bite me, hit me, pull my hair etc. Which was very embarrassing in Public. I remember after my second knee surgery my mother told me that I should fly out to California and stay with her while I recooperate and she would take care of Ryan. I felt so bad for everyone on the plane. He complained the entire flight. He was a year and a half at the time. Luckily the flight attendants offered to walk him up and down the aisle, something which I could not do at the time. He has also had some wonderful tantrum in public. Where he would throw himself on the floor start banging his head against the concrete. I was so embarrased I wanted to die. Then when I would try to pick him up he would hit me, bang his head against me. There were times where I didn't think I could deal with him any longer. My Mother took him for a week when he was 2 yrs old. My Mother ended up kicking him out of the house after the first 3 days. He ended up staying with my sister. He broke my mother's glasses during one of his tantrums. Luckily he has grown out of the head banging and if he throw a tantrum it is basically screaming, throwing himself on the ground and crying. I will now walk away from him when this happens. Time out does absolutely nothing for him. When he gets out of control I will spank him. I have no other option. He knows Mommy is the softy and he plays on that. All my husband has to do is look at him sideways and Ryan goes running out of the room crying. If I yell at Ryan he yells back and tells me I am hurting his feelings
When my friends heard I was going to have another child they thought I was nuts. I actually thought I was nuts too. He headbutted my stomach while I was pregnant. I was sure he would try to kill the baby. I tried to get an appt with a child behavorist but was not able to schedule an appt. To everyone's surprise Ryan turned out to be a wonderful big brother. He absolutely adores his little sister and goes out of his way to do nice things for her. Now his agression is directed towards the dogs. This needs to stop! We just got a referral to see a behaviorist. Ryan at school is a totally different kid. He is polite, has wonderful manners..etc. I guess it's a good thing I just wish he was like that at home and with me. Last month we were in a Restaurant he got mad at me and made a nasty comment and in the same sentence turned to the waiter and said thank you very much sir, to the waiter. When he starts fussing now I will make him stay wherever we are so he learns we will not leave until we are good & ready. He is much better when my hubby is with me. If he throws a tantrum I will walk away and threaten to leave him there...It works Everyone said I let him get away with murder when he was younger, but I don't think I did there was no way to know what he understood until he spoke. So yes maybe I am crazy for having another child but it seems to have brought out a good side to Ryan... Just thought I'd share my situation with you and tell you it is very embarrassing for the parents of these screaming kids and even more so when he would be hitting me. People would look at me like I was hitting him. So...some kids need to be spanked on occassion...when absolutely nothing else works and believe me when I say I have tried everything. I always say I would never spank my kids, but then I didn't expect a child like Ryan either. Elissa |
| I dont even know if I should voice my opinion as I do not have kids of my own...but....my husband has 2 kids from a previous marriage, he never spanked, hit or even looked at them cross-eyed...he sat down and explained what was wrong and why he was upset.....with one kid it worked well, with the other not so well. She is doing better now, but, she is a cutter, a stealer and thinks that the world revolves around her. She is NOT a bad kid. She gets good grades etc, but is easily influenced, when things dont go her way, she even stooped to taking a bottle of aspirin. 2 hours later when she wasnt feeling so hot, she told her mom. Her mom took her to a hospital (out of network) and spent 4 days in intensive care. She was on dialysis(sp?) for 2 days because she had kidney failure due to the legnth of time that the aspirin was in her system. she didnt even blink her eyes at us when we tried to talk to her about the repercutions regarding this latest event. It has been really hard, and not easy on our marriage. She just turned 18 and now most thing are out of our hands. She knows that she is an "adult" and can see whom ever she chooses..."its her right".....Hopefully she will make the right choices and we will have her for a long time...I love her. I dont think spanking and washing her mouth out would have made her any worse.....having her not here is the worst thing possible and if a crack on her patootie helped, I'd be all for it.... |
Anonymous wrote: ........It's like I cannot for the love of God imagine Jesus spanking holy "material" as our children are..........
Perhaps we can look at your sentence in another light. Jesus is the Son of God, His Child. He was spanked (punished) for the sins of mankind, punished for things He didn't even do. God not only spanked Him (His Son), but took His Son's life for our salvation. Proverbs 13:24 says; He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him diciplines him promptly. Proverbs 19:18 says; Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child, The rod of correction will drive it from him. Proverbs 13:13 says; Do not withhold correction from a child, For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. Proverbs 29:15 says; The rod and rebuke gives wisdom, But a child left to himself brings shame unto his mother. There's another verse that tells parents that if you have an unruly child, that after you've exhausted all means of trying to correct the child and the child still rebells, to bring it to the elders of the church to be stoned to death so that all may see and fear. Tell me that wouldn't change the behavior of some of the rebellious kids today! I'm not saying beat a child to death, leave marks, use a 2x4, etc....I don't approve of any of that, but I do approve of spanking. With the time out, the groundings, etc... to be added additionally, or used alone when it works best for that child. We respected our son as a child, but our first priority of parenting was teaching him to respect us and others. Once he accomplished that, he gained our respect more and more, and was shown more respect.... Our love for him meant we had to suffer through his teachings. We may have seen his tears when he received his few spankings, but until now with three sons of his own, he could not feel the pain it caused us in our hearts. The one thing about a spanking is that once given, most of the time you can go for a long time before having to give another. Why debate with a child over and over about something when you can just look at them and say, "What'd I tell you?" in a calm voice, they give you the look of disgust, cause they know they lost the battle and thats the end of it. You can explain things after the fact, but later on when it longer plays a part in the debate.....there is no debate. Save that for the teenage years, you'll have plenty of time then. |
| Thank Goodness the Bible is open for interpretation, mine is that the "rod" is used for guiding our children, not for beating them. Children learn from example, start guiding. |
guest wrote: Thank Goodness the Bible is open for interpretation, mine is that the "rod" is used for guiding our children, not for beating them. Children learn from example, start guiding.
Please note, my post is in no way argumentative of your personal views. The purpose of this forum is to teach and learn. I decided after reading your post to look up the word "rod" to read its meaning and see what its used for. These are definitions that were listed. Webster's on line Dictionary: ROD Function: noun 1a. (1): a straight stick growing on or cut from a tree or bush (2): OSIER (3): a stick or bundle of twigs used to punish, also: PUNISHMENT (4): a shepherd's cudgel (5): a pole with a line and usually a reel attached for fishing b. (1) a slender bar (as of wood or metal) (2): a bar or staff for measuring (3): SCEPTOR; also: a wand or staff carried as a badge of office (as a marshal) 2a: a unit of length - - see WEIGHT table b: a square rod 3: any of the long rod-shaped photosensitive receptors in the retina responsive to faint light - - compare CONE 3a 4: a rod-shaped bacterium 5 slang: HANDGUN CUDGEL, noun: A short heavy stick used as a weapon; a club. transitive verb: To beat with or as if with a cudgel. Whatever had been making her dogs uneasy, she'd have to handle it on her own. Rosie Bowe took a heavy piece of firewood as a cudgel and followed them. Jim Crace, Signals of Distress The Grand Vizier Kuprili of Constantinople, for example,....closed the city's coffeehouses. Anyone caught drinking coffee was soundly cudgeled. Mark Pendergrast, Uncommon Grounds: The History of Coffee and How it Transformed Our World. As for the Bible being open for interpretation. My belief is that theres one way to achieve salvation, that's based on God's Word with no room for interpretation. The rest may be open for discussion, we may have our own interpretation, but as the Holy Spirit leads, guides and teaches us, those interpretations are subject to change with the knowledge and experience we gain. |
Quote: As for the Bible being open for interpretation. My belief is that theres one way to achieve salvation, that's based on God's Word with no room for interpretation. The rest may be open for discussion, we may have our own interpretation, but as the Holy Spirit leads, guides and teaches us, those interpretations are subject to change with the knowledge and experience we gain.
My thoughts on the 'one interpretation' aspect to the Bible is that it is really subjective, as the original Bible was written in a different language and the early scholars and priests who undertook the translation of the Bible had to use their own abilities to do so. So, whereas one priest might have translated the word X into one meaning, another priest might have translated that same word into a totally separate meaning, based on what they thought the root of the word was. When this happens, it can completely change the meaning of a passage. I went to a religious high school and Catholic college, both with mandatory religion class requirements, so I took several more historically-based classes on the Bible and it was very interesting to see what arguments like these could do...and they showed examples of how just one word could change the whole tone of a passage... Anonymous, what do you think of the tradition of nuns using rulers, etc to hit children at catholic school? They have taken on vows to be the servants of God and yet they still use corporal punishment? But they are supposed to be amongst the most learned and holy people? |
| We don't really want to get into a discussion of how the King James translation of the Bible came to be DO WE?????? |
Tasker's Mom wrote: We don't really want to get into a discussion of how the King James translation of the Bible came to be DO WE??????
Exactly...if you others want to take this discussion to a differnt topic...post a new thread, or privately. This will only end badly, if religious differences are brought up. |
| I agree. I think we should refrain from discussion of most (if not all) religious topics on the site. |
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