urinating and defecating indoors
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| Hi,
I went through a similar problem when I rescued my Murphy. He was 13 months old when I rescured him and wasn't house trained. He also suffered really really bad seperation anxiety. I thought OMG what have I done!!! Its been 18 months since I rescued him and he is good as gold.. well most of the time (hehehe). Here are a few things that I did to solve the problem. I would leave the house for very short times (10 to 15 minutes).. several times a day.. just to reassure him that I would be coming back. Now I can leave him home all day while I am at work.. and there are no presents when I get home. I leave the TV and/or the radio on just so that there is background noise while I gone. He seems to prefer soft rock... hehehe. I never leave the windows completly open.. because he would hear outside noise and think it was me coming home and that would just work him up into a frenzy.., barking, howling, jumping at the windows to see outside.. so what I do now is close the windows and the curtains and leave the fans on in the house if it's hot.. and with the radio on.. it miminizes the outside noise. I leave lots and lots of safe chewy toys around the house for him to entertain himself with while I am gone.. recycled rubber tire toys are the best, cause they are virtually non-destructive. You can get these at any Pet Store.. but not at pet stores that sell animals.... never at pet stores that sell animals.. those animals come from puppy mills and BYB (that's just my personnal opinion). And last but most important... Both my dogs get their Kongs filled with Peanut Butter before I leave the house.. and only when I leave the house. He has associated me getting ready in the mornings for work with getting his kong. I usually fill them at night and put them in the freezer so it takes them a good long time to clean them out and keeps them occupied in the day.. when I get home, I put his kong away until the next time I have to leave the house. THIS HAS BEEN A LIVE SAVER FOR US!!! Please don't give up on your dog.. it just takes a little understanding and patience. They are furry babies and just need the reassurance that when we leave, we will be coming back. Good Luck. Brenda |
| There's a book called the Dog Listener by Jan Fennell that I highly recommend. The book is about how your dog fits in within the pack and how humans can make certain changes in behavior to help a dog find his place in the pack. This works wonders with separation anxiety and there is a lot of guidance about how to handle NOT greeting your dog right away when you return home. Also if you come home to a little "surprise" and get emotional around your dog while cleaning it up, your dog thinks that whatever you encountered in the outside world has made you upset which only adds to the anxiety. It's really an interesting read and you can buy it right through Oes.org at http://www.oes.org/html/sheepdog_merchandise.html .
Good luck & please don't give up on her just yet - help her find the solution... |
| Here is a better link for books:
http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=4488 |
I totally agree with The Dog Listener by Jan Fennell! It's fantastic! I wish I had had this info when we had our last OES! Bart used to do that once in a while as well, I tried everything (or so I thought) then I bought a steam cleaner! 
Has she always done this? Or is it just recently? Please stay on the forum, everyone is fantastic here and will get you thru this! And if you are seriously considering giving her up, you really should contact an OES rescue in your area as they will help you find the RIGHT home for your girl. But don't give up!  If you put the steps in Fennell's book to use, you really will see a difference!
Please keep us posted, my heart goes out to you! Colleen and Gucci George |
| Both of my Boxers did this. ( I have heard that most people that own Boxers always crate them. They have terrible seperation anxiety.)
With my Female we tried an exercise where we would leave the house for 5 minutes and come back and reward her if all was ok. Then 10 minutes and so on. Needless to say we never got beyond the five minute point. When we walked in there was Roxie bend over to "poop" and straining. She had just been out to poop right before we left so it's not that she had to go. This was a spiteful thing...because we had left her. We would have loved to given her some freedom while we were out, but she couldn't be left like that. I would use the crate if I were you. But be consistant with it. Or even try the method of training that I tried. Just because it didn't work my Boxers doesn't mean it won't work for an OES. I believe after owning both breeds that OES are much smarter. My Toy Poodle poops on the floor almost on a daily basis. He will even do it while I am home. I believe this is because of his seizures, he probably has some brain damage. He has a dog door and knows how to use it. My OES like to get into trouble...but I think it's because he's going through OES terrible teens. He's 18 months old. He was wonderful, now he loves getting into stuff. I try to remember to keep food off the counter. He got into Chocolate Magic Shell the other night and there are chocolate stains on my carpet 
Good luck with your dog! Before you decide to turn your dog into a Humane Society (if it comes to that) please contact your local OES rescue group. They will find your dog a wonderful new home. Most anyone here can get you the contact info for a person in your area. Elissa |
| Dogs are a lot like people. The terrible two's, the kid throws itself on the floor and has a tantrum. The dog, does whatever it takes to get your attention. If coming home everyday, you "immediately" grumble about the "present" you've been given, and clean it up in front of the dog, that sends the message that "I'm paying attention now."
Sometimes ignoring something is the best solution. Don't come in excited, dogs less apt to urinate before getting outside. Short trips in and out reassure that you're coming back. As mentioned, toys, tv and radios help. Changes in habits make a differance also. I have an African Grey Parrot that refused to come out of his cage. The problem was, I was leaving the drapes open in front of his cage at night. He felt as though he had to sleep with "one eye open," and wasn't getting his rest. When I figured out what was different, closed the drapes that night, the next day he came right out. Animals can be a handful, but I think a lot of their behavior problems are our fault. We need to be trained "before" we train them. I think we need to "think" like the animal we're training in order to communicate better. We speak the words to them and expect them to learn what we want them to do. Eventually they do, but they're also are "watching" us. We don't always realize when we're saying one thing, yet acting another. We confuse them a lot more than we think by our actions. Please think things through before you send your dog away. It may be as simple as you have a baby that you change on the floor and the scent is left there before you leave, so.................... Perhaps your carpet still has the odor from previous "presents." Just using these as examples. Good luck. Hope you can resolve the issue without having to say goodbye.  |
Thank you all for your responses. I have never had such trouble with a dog. I use Natures Miracle when I clean up her messes, and I follow up with an orange scented cleaner. She was horrible on carpet, which she loves to go on, and she has urinated on our bed a few times. We now live in a home with all hard wood floors. I have gotten her a kong and put peanut butter in it, she was interested in it at first, but prefers peanut butter bones instead. We also close up the house and leave a fan on, because she likes to lay in front of the fan and it blocks out any noise, we have occasionally left the tv on for her, I usually pop in Lord of the Rings, its a few hours long, or I have a lullaby cd I put in for her. She has been messing in the house the entire time we have had her. The vet says she's healthy, the behaviouralist says she is very dominant, and we have followed her advice on dealing with her, but she sounds alot like the boxers one of you had, she has angry poops. We leave the house, she's hunched over squeezing one out, and you can look at it and see she really had to try to poop it out! We have been very patient have have gone through alot to keep her, but we are reaching our wits end. She will not go to the humane society, I couldn't do that, but I have looked into sheepdog rescues for her.  its just...its been 2 1/2 years! |
| We had the same thing happen with our first OES. This was 13 years ago. For the first few months he was fine. Then I became pregnant. Then our OES started to poop in the house. (all the time...even in the middle of the night when we were home, vet said the dog had 'issues' with me being pregnant) We was coming home every day to a HUGE mess. I was afraid for the new baby. The OES had attacked the chow for no reason. At that time we thought crates were cruel. We really should not even had a dog...we were gone far too long and when we got home we didnt have the time for the dog. OES need their people. We were not the right kind of owners for a 'people dog' then. A friend of ours lived on a boyscout camp...they had a bearded collie too. They took our boy and gave him the love and attention he was lacking. It was the hardest thing we have ever had to do, but it was better for the dog. OES need a lot of attention.
I hope you come to the right decision for your OES and your family. |
| I am really sorry that you are going through this, it sounds so very hard. It also sounds like you have really put a good effort forth!!! I really don't have any suggestions because I have never had to go through this. My only thought would be to build an outside kennel if you live in an area where the climate would allow it. If he is outside when you are not home in a kennel with a run at least you would not have a mess in your house.
Good Luck to you and I hope you find a solution. If you do find that you are unable to keep him and must find a new home for him don't be too hard on yourself. It sounds like you have tried hard and given him a great deal of care and patience. Some situations just don't work out. |
| Thank you for your kind words. It is very hard. I have been going through the old posts and was thinking about trying a shock collar, it worked with another person who was dealing with bad behavior. Maybe if she gets a little shock when she potties inside, she will associate the shock with urinating indoors. I can handle picking up poop, but the constant urination is a problem. We don't want to get rid of her, I will say I do out of frustration, but when I think about not having her, I break down and cry. It's so frustrating, she just doesn't understand. I called the newspaper to put an add in the paper, only to cancel it a few hours later! We have discussed an outdoor kennel, but I live in Wisconsin, and the winters here are so cold, she'd never make it outdoors, so I will give this "collar" a try in hopes that it will make her understand she needs to potty outside. I will keep you posted. |
| How about trying a citronella collar before trying the shock collar. From what I understand the citronella is unpleasant but not quite so harsh. |
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