**Flawdogs**
I am in Colorado and before I take a trek to MO I need to know if this lady's really legit and not reselling other puppy mill dogs..... Please help! |
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| Hi OES mama! Check out the rescue links on the front page. See if the contact persons' info is listed under that state or not. I've never heard of them, but that doesn't mean much! You can also check with Christine, the national rescue contact for OESCA (the OES breed club) at oes@bnis.net. she might know if these folks are on the up and up!
Karen  |
| This is what I could find on them:
http://www.petfinder.org/shelters/MO256.html And here's a list of their current pups on Petfinder: http://www.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?action ... erid=MO256 It seems like a very humane place just from their description - no kennels, lots of love. Here's the 1 OES they have currently: http://www.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?action ... mpl=&stat= |
| I picked up Mynie Me and her brother this past weekend and just BARELY made it out before a tornado hit in the area!!!!
Both are clean now, happy and well loved!! I will post pictures soon................ I am SO excited to have been able to help these sheepies out ........... PROUD OES Mama |
| Congrats on your new babies. Please join the forum as a permanent member and post pics!!! Can't wait to see them!
Karen |
| OES Mama, what's the deal with Flawdogs? They seem to have an awful lot of dogs for a rescue. Are they legitimate? |
| Well, to tell you the truth, I was told that these are puppymill leftovers, and that these two were going to be put down. The lady I worked with at Flawdogs seemed real nice, however, please understand, we drove from Boulder, Colorado to right outside of St Louis to pick up these puppies. When we got there, the place had a TON of dogs, most of them were adult females that were old puppy mill mama's and were in ok shape, they were in the house and wanted love...... the puppies were outside, in with several other puppies. My girl, aptly named Myne Me, is HALF the size of a normal sheepie puppy at this age, she weighs 9 pounds, SEVERELY underweight. She is very healthy other than not getting enough food. The male, her brother (Fez), I brought back as well, is pretty sick, horrible ear infection, staph infection and possibly a UTI as well. He is at the vet's today getting his ear taken care of and started his anti's last night.
I really really don't know how legit this lady is, but I did want these two sheepies to have a wonderful rest of their life, it started out bad enough...... I hope and pray that I was not aiding in puppy milling --THAT IS MY BIGGEST FEAR. Also, when I asked the lady we rescued the puppies from for any type of papers or anything, she told me that she couldn't tell me or else that would break her trust with the mills on giving her the dogs. I would really really like to find the *************^*********'s that have sheepies in their mills, and I would love to work with anyone in the area that would be interested in helping go in and find the mills, I did ask Sally to call me if she got any more sheepies in. I may have a hard time going on another road trip like that with my girlfriend and 3 kids, but to help save lives, I'll make it .... I will try to post some picx tonight, just super busy with new babies in the house  |
| Congratulations on saving these two puppies and welcome to the forum. I know that there are lots of differing opinions but I believe that a life saved, is a life saved, PERIOD!!! You "DONE GOOD". Best wishes for a quick and speedy return to health for your sick one and fast weight gain for both of them. Did I miss in your post how old they are?
We JUST LOVE pictures and would love to follow their progress so don't feel you have to wait until they are clean or fattened up to post pictures. Ginny and the boys |
Tasker's Mom wrote: Congratulations on saving these two puppies and welcome to the forum. I know that there are lots of differing opinions but I believe that a life saved, is a life saved, PERIOD!!! You "DONE GOOD".
I was going to say the same thing. You just gave them a better life than they could've ever hoped to have. They can't help the world they were born in. Sometimes they have a way of finding you for a reason! |
| I agree - Myne Me and Fez are lucky to be part of your family! You have a huge heart to drive so far and take in two at the same time. I wasn't being judgemental, I was just curious because there was something about their website that struck me funny.
Can't wait to see pictures! |
| The OES is no longer listed, I hope that's good news. |
Well, $500 later at the Vet's, Fez may be deaf in his ear...  I am very concerned and have left the ladies at Flawdogs a message, becuase this was totally preventable; both dogs were at the vet's getting fixed on Thursday of last week!! All it would have taken was one flip of the ear, I noticed it as soon as we got him, it's horrible!
Maybe it's just that she has too many dogs to take care of correctly, regardless, her VET should have looked and at least got him started on medicine. Fez goes back Friday if his ear isn't better...... I have pictures of him, but I am not sure how exactly to post them to this site ...... 
bestdogsx4 -- I brought back the two sheepdog's that Flawdogs had, I didn't want to split them up.... Bailey's Mom -- I was real nervous about going out there  which part of their website struck you as odd? The whole thing? I almost didn't go out there because I had a bad feeling about the place, I was hoping that we weren't about to get ripped off, or something worse, I brought my kids with me .... |
| OES Mama, I'm so sorry to hear about Fez! He's lucky that you came along when you did so that he can have some good care and treatment now.
Here's the link to the posting instructions: http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=1119 You have to go to OES Photos (link all the way at the bottom of the screen) to post the pictures, and once they're approved you can link the pictures to a message. As for the funny feeling, it sounds stupid now that I'm trying to write it out, but it was the number of dogs (which is significantly down this week) coupled with the fact that there wasn't much information on the Web on them when I would have expected a ton of information on a rescue of this size. I guess I'm used to being able to "get to know" the people associated with the rescues through their websites or through references from other people's websites. Just silliness, nothing concrete. |
| I have to agree with everyone else- most normal rescues won't let the dogs leave until their spayed/neutered and totally vetted out, with a clean bill of health. If there is a health issue- they normally would let you know, before you come to get the dog. Seems a bit odd...
Either way- welcome to the forum, your babies are in good hands now!Can't wait to see your pics! Karen |
| Welcome to the forum!
Saving a dog, no matter where he or she came from is what counts. Congratulations on your new pup... Post pictures! |
| I don't own a Sheepdog, but have adopted a Daschund from Flawdogs. I found the place to be very clean and huge places for the dogs to play in. The house was exce[tionally clean and all of the dogs seemed to be very happy. The dogs and puppies are given to them rather than put down. In some cases they pay a few dollars to have the places hold them until they can get there. The puppy mills want them gone immediatly or they kill them. Some are so scared but they work with them and get them trusting people. I was there for over two hours just watching the dogs roll in the grass, something they had never done before. They are a wonderful group and all of the dogs are spayed and or neutered before going to there new homes. All shots microchipped etc. I was very impressed. There are also volunteers that take many of the dogs and work with them. I hope this has been of some help to anyone interested. They certainly have my vote. Dog lover in Missouri. |
| I have uploaded some pictures, waiting approval....hopefully I did it right!! I am betting I will have to go and move them to all be under the same album, but there's lots of picx!! |
| They are absolutely precious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! By the way, is Rocky a malt?? |
| Rocky is a Maltese (who doesn't know it) and Jewel is a black lab mix (my girlfriend's puppy -- who before we brought Mynie home, we aplty nick-named Princess Chicken *&%$ because she was scared of everything, she is now "tough" and brave because of the new puppy!) |
| As you can see I have a malt and a oes, so does Johayoe. A WONDERFUL combination I keep saying Ty is a malt who thinks he is a OES!!!!!!! |
They are just the most adorable little things! And I love Mynie's pink little nose! You are in for so much FUN!! 
Chris |
| I have a little maltese princess named Sadie which came from Flawdogs in MO. I couldn't be happier! I already owned a maltese and wanted to get him a friend. I made the perfect choice. I truly look up to the flawdogs crew! The dogs are kept in very clean play areas and seem very happy! Too bad there's not more people with hearts as big as the Flawdog crew! I seen some of the dogs they rescued the day I picked my Sadie up, and trust me they are saving these dogs lives! I urge anyone who is looking for a pet to visit flawdogs! There are a lot of dogs who could use love and affection! |
OES Mama wrote: Flawdogs has more OES puppies available.............. does anyone in the area know about this rescue, if they are purchasing the dogs in a consigment sale or anything? They also have some beardies.
I am in Colorado and before I take a trek to MO I need to know if this lady's really legit and not reselling other puppy mill dogs..... Please help! IT REALLY HURTS ME TO READ NEGATIVE REMARKS ABOUT FLAWDOGS. I FIRST MET SALLY WHEN I WENT ON LINE LOOKING FOR A POODLE. I HAVE SINCE BECOME VERY CLOSE WITH HER AND CAROL AND WE ARE VERY GOOD FRIENDS. EVERY TIME I TALK WITH HER I AM I AWE OF WHAT THEY DO FOR THESE POOR ABUSED ANIMALS. SOME OF THEM ARE WALKING FOR THE FIRST TIME EVEN THOUGH THEIR LITTLE LEGS ARE SO BENT FROM NEVER BEING ALLOWED OUT OF THEIR METAL CAGES. THE FIRST TIME I VISITED SALLY POINTED OUT A VERY OLD POODLE WHO WAS PREGNANT. SHE WAS SO SCARED AND SHY THAT SHE WOULD NOT COME NEAR ME. WHEN HER BABIES WERE STILL BORN THIS MAMMA DOG REALIZED THAT A YARD WAS FOR RUNNING AND SHE SURE DID HAVE A GREAT TIME DOING JUST THAT ON HE LITTLE BOWED LEGS. SHE STILL WAS SHY AND SCARED OF HUMANS BUT TO HER SHE WAS IN HEAVEN. ONE LITTLE GUY WAS PARALIZED FROM A DOOR BEING SLAMMED ON HIM AT THE PUPPY MILL. THEY WORKED WITH HIM A LONG TIME AND NOW HE WALKS A LITTLE. THERE ARE BLIND AND DEAF DOGS THAT ARE HAPPY AT FLAWDOGS. THERE IS ONE LITTLE BLIND GUY WHO INSISITS ON GETTING IN YOUR ARMS WHEN YOU ARRIVE. THEY CUDDLE TOGETHER IN THEIR LITTLE DONATED BEDS AND CAN GO IN AND OUT TO A FENCED IN YARD THROUGH A DOGGIE DOOR. THE YARD IS DIVIDED OFF INTO SEVERAL SECTIONS SO THAT SALLY CAN KEEP DOGS APART THAT WOULD NOT GET ALONG. SHE HAS A PART OF HER HOME SET UP LIKE AN INTENSIVE CARE UNITE WITH DONATED STEEL CAGES FOR THE DOGS THAT ARE RECOVERING FROM SURGERY. SOME OF HER DOGS STAY IN HEATED DOG HOUSES AT NIGHT, SOME IN THEIR FAVORITE PLACE IN THE H OME AND A FEW SLEEP IN BED WITH SALLY. I REALLY CONNOT COMPREHEND HOW ANYONE CAN DO SO MUCH AND LOVE EVERY MINUTE OF IT. IT IS SO MUCH WORK AND NEVER REALLY DONE. JUST AS SOON AS SHE ADOPTS 15 OR MORE DOGS OVER THE WEEKEND, SHE IS CALLED TO PICK UP EVEN MORE, AND IF SHE IS REALLY TOO FULL AT THE TIME AS ASKED THEM TO PLEASE WAIT, THEY MANY TIMES SAY THAT THEY WILL GIVE HER A COUPLE OF DAYS AND IF SHE CANNOT GET THEM, THEY WILL SHOOT THEM. THEY ARE EACH NAME AS THEY COME IN AND SALLY REMEMBERS THE NAMES. IT IS SO CUTE HOW THEY PAIR OFF IN LITTLE CLIQUES FOR COMPANIONSHIP. I ALWAYS FEEL I WANT TO TAKE ALL OF THEM HOME. THEY HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH DONATED FOOD TO GAIN WEIGHT AND THEY HAVE LOTS OF TOYS AND EACH GET PERSONAL ATTENTION. I DON'T KNOW HOW SHE DOES IT. SALLY IS A REMARKABLE LADY WITH AN ABUNDANCE OF ENERGY. IF SHE DOES ANYTHING WRONG IT WOULD BE NOT TAKING GOOD ENOUGH CARE OF HERSELF. THERE ARE TIMES WHEN 30 DOGS ARE TAKEN TO THE VET SO THAT MEANS THIRTY DOGS MUST BE WATCHED IN THEIR INTENSIVE C ARE UNIT. AS FAR AS ILLNESSES GO, THOSE ILLNESSES WERE CONTRACTED FROM THE PUPPY MILLS. SURE, SOME THINGS MIGHT BE MISSED, BUT THEY CANNOT DO EVERYTHING AND BE PERFECT. SHE WORKS WITH THREE VETS. I ADOPTED ONE TOY POODLE ONLY 4 YEARS OLD AND MY VET SAID SHE HAD A BAD HEART MURMUR AND IT WAS PROBABLY FROM BREEDING HER TOO MUCH. SOMETIMES MURMURS CAN BE MISSED AND I KNOW FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH A DOG I HAD HAD FOR 8 YEARS. SHE IS ON MEDICATION AND FINE NOW. WE HAD TO FIND A BETTER HOME FOR HER BECAUSE SHE LIKED MEN BEST AND THERE WERE NOT MEN IN MY HOUSE. SHE IS PROBABLY ON HIS LAP RIGHT NOW. MY LATEST 4 YR HAD HEART WORMS. THE TEST SHE WAS GIVEN BY SALLY'S VET CAME UP NEGATIVE WHICH CAN HAPPEN. SHE IS DOING FINE NOW, AND I KNEW THAT THESE DOGS WERE NEVER PUT IN THE PREVENTATIVE. I AM SO HAPPY WITH HER. THERE IS SO MUCH MORE I WOULD LIKE TO TELL YOU, BUT I HAVE TAKEN UP ENOUGH SPACE. I DO KNOW THAT ANY DOG I GET IN THE FUTURE WILL COME FROM FLAWDOGS. ONE MORE THING. SHE HAS DOGS THAT HAVE NO TEETH FROM TRYING TO GET OUT OF THEIR CAGES AND DOGS WITHOUT JAWS FROM POOR NUTRITION. DO YOU THINK THAT JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT PERFECT AND COME FROM A ROTTEN PLACE, THEY SHOULD BE EUTHANIZED? RIBSY |
| This post looks very familiar.... likely either written by the same person, or copied and pasted with a few things changed?
I would guess "flawdogs" is having problems with it's reputation, and is trolling the net to find negative posts to reply to. Seeing these things would make me even more concerned about anyone getting a dog from these people. |
There's nothing I love more than a post written in all caps. Makes it really easy to read and really gets the point across...  |
| HELLO!!!!!!!!!! This just blows me away.......Hunte sends his reps to pick out the ones they want for their Petstores..Rufus and Wolfe & Co.....Then the Puppy Brokers come by and pick the ones they have orders for.....These commercial breeders and Puppymills have to do something with the puppies that are left....So they sell them directly to these people..Not just Flawdogs but many others that represent themselves to be rescue.I suppoise in the broad defination of rescue they are rescueing......Some times they are bought at dogs auctions....A rescue license in Missouri doesn't cost anything...A Brokers Liceense does cost..... Usually there is something wrong with them that the Brokers and Hunte won't take them...Either Health, markings, coloring. size......So the question is ............Is this buying and Selling or is This Rescue????????? No Rescue lets a Baby go without spay and neutering it.........Bottom Line!!!!!!!!!! Kaye Second Chance OES Rescue |
| I have one more thing to say and I am through with this RANT!!!!!!!!!! I am independant rescue and therefore don't always go along with the CHISLED IN STONE attitude ... I do however have a real problem with people running a business and calling it rescue........Rescue is not a BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!! We have never made MONEY on 1 dog that has ever left here to go to its Furever Home.....We have been in THe RED on Every Baby...... The People I met in Missouri that were buying from auctions and commercial breeders and puppymills were making money.....The price of the puppy was based on what they paid for it.......If you notice in their Mission Statment the word MINIMUN of $200 adoption fee for the puppies they rescue.......What does that mean????? Are Lives Being Saved??????? Yes!!!!!!!!I'm not saying these are BAD People!!!!!!! There Is Rescue and There Is Rescue.......... So I guess I am not doing it right if I am not at least breaking even........I could say I need to charge more because that gives me some operating money so I can save more!!!!!!! Kaye Second Chance OES Rescue |
Willowsprite wrote: This post looks very familiar.... likely either written by the same person, or copied and pasted with a few things changed?
I would guess "flawdogs" is having problems with it's reputation, and is trolling the net to find negative posts to reply to. Seeing these things would make me even more concerned about anyone getting a dog from these people. I HAVE NEVER WRITTEN ANYTHING BEFORE ABOUT FLAWDOGS, AND I WON'T AGAIN. I DID NOT REALIZE THAT I WOULD BE HURTING THEM BY DOING SO. THEY ARE MY FRIENDS AND I WAS ONLY TRYING TO HELP. I REALLY AM SHOCKED AT THE RESPONSES, AND I AM TRULY SORRY THAT I DID WRITE. AS FAR AS THE CAPS GO, I HAVE PAINFUL HANDS AND FINGERS, AND IT JUST SEEMS EASIER ON ME TO USE CAPS. I WAS ONLY GIVING MY OPINION, AND WHEN YOU BELIEVE IN SOMETHING AS STRONGLY AS I DO ABOUT THE WORK OF FLAWDOGS, IT IS VERY HURTFUL TO READ NEGATIVE REMARKS. I ONLY WANTED YOU TO KNOW WHAT REALLY IS TRUE ABOUT THEM. RIBSY |
| You're entitled to your opinion, and I am equally entitled to disbelieve it. |
| I for one would like to hear more about Flawdogs, and RIBSY's opinions about flawdogs. I'd like to know more about why they do what they do, and how they feel this helps.
Let's not shoot the messenger! |
| I agree with Ron, I have never heard of this type of operation before and am curious about it. |
| I APOLOGIZE FOR BEING SO SENSITIVE ABOUT FLAWDOGS. I UNDERSTAND NOW THAT I THREW OUT TOO MUCH AT ONE TIME. I WILL TRY TO DO BETTER.
SALLY STARTED DOING THIS YEARS AGO, TAKING IN PUPPY MILL DOGS THAT WERE IN LINE FOR EUTHANIZING. IT TOOK A LONG TIME FOR THE OWNERS OF THE MILLS TO TRUST HER. SALLY WAS A THERAPIST UNTIL LAST SPRING. SHE USED TO BRING A FEW OF THE DOGS TO THE HOSPITAL TO HELP THE CHILDREN. SHE QUIT HER STRESSFUL JOB SO SHE COULD RESCUE OR WHATEVER YOU CALL FULLTIME. SHE LOVES IT. SALLY DOES NOT MAKE MONEY FROM THIS. SHE FINALLY HAS HER F2 1 OR WHAT EVER IT IS CALLED. SHE IS LICENSED. SALLY HAS BEEN DOING THIS KIND OF THING MOST OF HER LIFE. I, AMONG SEVERAL OTHERS, HAVE BEEN HELPING HER FINANCIALLY, BECAUSE WE LOVE HER AND THE DOGS. SHE WILL TAKE A DOG BACK AND RETURN YOUR MONEY IF YOU ARE NOT SATISFIED. SHE DRIVES MILES AND MILES TO PICK UP DOGS DESTINED TO DIE. AS FAR AS THE HEALTH ISSUES, I ALSO AM NOT COMPLETELY HAPPY. EVEN THOUGH SHE IS A CLOSE FRIEND OF (SHE BECAME MY FRIEND AFTER I ADOPTED) I AM NOT TOO FOUND OF HER VET. SALLY THINKS HE IS GREAT, SO I DO NOT SAY MUCH. I GOT A DOG THAT HAD A VERY SERIOUS HEART MURMUR BUT I DID NOT KNOW IT UNTIL I ADOPTED HER. MY VET PUT HER ON MEDICATION. SHE WAS THE ONE I HAD TO GIVE BACK DUE TO HER LIKING MEN ONLY. NOW, MY LITTLE DARLING I FOUND OUT HAD HEART WORMS WHEN I ADOPTED HER. I REALLY THINK THE VET MISSED IT. IT CAN BE A MISTAKE IN THE READING, BUT NEVERTHELESS, I HAD HER TREATED AND SHE IS FINE NOW. SALLY HAS 3 VETS AND THEY DON'T CHARGE HER AS MUCH AS THEY WOULD CHARGE US WHICH ALLOWS HER TO DO THIS. YES, SHE DOES HAVE TOO MANY DOGS, BUT SHE IS PLANNING TO BUY WHEN SHE CAN A BUILDING TO GO RIGHT ON HER PROPERTY. SHE DOES NOT WANT TO ENLARGE AT ALL, SHE SAID SHE JUST WANTS TO DO THINGS BETTER. FROM DONATIONS SHE WAS ABLE TO PURCHASE A SHUTTLE BUS LAST WEEK. SHE SAID SHE WAS SO EXCITED ABOUT BEING ABLE TO DRIVE THE DOGS IN COMFORT THAT SHE FORGOT ABOUT INSURANCE, SO SOME OF US ARE TRYING TO PAY THAT FOR HER. THANKS FOR LISTENING AND HOPE YOU WILL ASK MORE QUESTIONS. |
| I'm not trying to be mean, but I am just wondering if you, or Sally, thinks it is really in those dogs best interest to go from possibly being euthanized, to being overcrowded (unsanitary and not good for their mental health either) and to having sub-standard vet care that doesn't find things (and treat) like heart murmurs and heartworm, among the many other ailments you have mentioned? |
Willowsprite wrote: I'm not trying to be mean, but I am just wondering if you, or Sally, thinks it is really in those dogs best interest to go from possibly being euthanized, to being overcrowded (unsanitary and not good for their mental health either) and to having sub-standard vet care that doesn't find things (and treat) like heart murmurs and heartworm, among the many other ailments you have mentioned?
I AM SORRY IF I MISLED YOU. THEY ARE NOT OVERCROWDED THERE. I MEANT THAT FOR SALLY'S SAKE SHE HAS TOO MANY DOGS UNDERFOOT AND IT IS HARD TO CLEAN AND COOK, ETC. THE PLACE IS SPOTLESS. I NEVER SAID THAT THEY WERE IN UNSANITARY CONDITIONS. I WILL CHOSE MY WORDS BETTER NEXT TIME. WHEN SHE HAS THE BUILDING, SHE WILL HAVE MORE ROOM TO STORE THINGS LIKE THE FOOD, TOYS, EXTRA BEDS, ETC. THEY ARE HAPPY LITTLE GUYS WITH PLENTY OF ROOM TO RUN AND PLAY. SALLY'S HOUSE IS VERY LARGE SITTING AN EXTREMELY LARGE ISOLATED AND CONTAINED LOT. I ALSO DIF NOT SAY THAT THE VET WAS NOT GOOD. I SAID THAT I DID NOT CARE FOR HIM, AND THAT BUSINESS ABOUT THE HEALTH IS MY ONLY COMPLAINT AND I WILL TALK TO HER ABOUT IT. THE VET JUST MISSES SOME OF THE PROBLEMS, BUT I DO KNOW THAT MANY ARE BEING TREATED FOR DIFFERENT CONDITIONS. ONE LITTLE PUPPY JUST HAD SURGERY. HE WAS BORN WITH HIS FRONT PAW BACKWARDS WHICH IS VERY RARE. I ALSO KNOW THAT FROM TIME TO TIME DOGS ARE TAKEN TO MICHIGAN STATE FOR HEART SURGERY. |
| Are these Babies spayed and neutered before they are sold? Kaye |
| Well, I found it very interesting that this popped back up! Mynie is still sick, she may have a pancreas problem that has been causing some of her issues, also her bloodwork worked up high whites and low reds, so she is definitly sick, regardless I wanted to follow up on this. As I am still trying to find out who the breeder is and can't (I just would like to know what type of heriditary disease there is, before spending thousands trying to find out) I sent another note to Sally and I guess she feels that I have hurt a lot of people by what I said on this forum.
My intent was not to hurt anyone's feelings, but to find out if anyone had worked with this organization before, especially before I drove 1100 miles to pick up two dogs, with my children! All of the dogs are fixed prior to leaving flawdogs, and I have never disputed that. What I was concerned about was: Both dogs were in a pen with at least 5 other dogs, and both my dogs came home with worms, HORRIBLY (I still treat Mynie for them because of it) -- the nature of puppies, they aren't clean, so I am betting that the other puppies ended up with worms. From what I could tell, the pens were sprayed out, and that is not how to treat for worms. Cross contamination etc. Fez had a staph infection, I found it while putting him in the car, as well as a horrible ear infection, both preventable by a 5 minute exam by a vet. I think what Sally does is wonderful, however, there comes a point when you do need more help than what is there, and I feel that she really needs more help. It's wonderful what she is doing, but if the dogs leave one sick environment to come to another one, that that does not help a dog either. The weekend that I was there, there were a TON of dogs and again, the cleanliness is an issue with the health of the puppies in my book. I apologize if I have hurt anyone's feelings in regards to flawdogs. My girlfriend and I both think what Sally does is great, she just needs more help and a better vet. On (I guess) a more positive note, the breeder that had the sheepdog has traded them for a lab and poodle, guess he thinks there's more money in labradoodles (jerk)
These laws need to be tougher on puppy millers, and anyone who can willingly hurt animals such as these millers (NOT SALLY!), will meet their fate. |
| Your pup might be sick if you are repaeatedly treating her for worms, those are powerful medicines posioning her system....
Worms should be treated, then treated again ten days later to kill any parasites that hatched after the first treatment. If you retreat too early you will be missing ones who didn't hatch yet, if you retreat too late, the newer worms will have already repeated the reproduction process. Also, how could you find a staph infection while putting a dog in a car?? What are you referring to when you say staph infection? |
| When lifting Fez up into the car, under his elbows, had sores from a staph infection. They were on his stomach as well, and for a vet to overlook them, while the dog is already up on the table for surgery, is odd to me. I worked in a vet clinic in Arizona and am familiar with staph because of swimming pools and dogs laying in them.....
Also, we are treating Mynie homeopathically this time, because the prescription wormers are not working. We are attempting this approach since all the other prescription wormers didn't work. This is her last go round with the wormers, as her last tests came back negative. It still leaves the other digestive problems that she has open, with no way of knowing a back ground, we will go in blindly and test for everything. |
| Staphylococcus is a bacteria, so it can cause infection and symptoms in dozens of ways, the sores were probably from laying in it's own urine and feces. Staph itself cannot be detected or diagnosed with the naked eye.... but I get your point. |
| Flawdogs seems to be up front in telling everyone that these puppies come from puppymills and commercial breeders...... They are puppies that aren't A class.The are B class......Ones that the Puppy Brokers didn't want for what ever reason....... I would be very surprised if these puppymills and commercial breeders do any genentic testing.......Kaye Second Chance OES Rescue |
| Kaye, I agree that they're very clear about the background of the dogs. However, many people wouldn't understand the implication, particularly if they are first time buyers. I didn't know anything when I bought Bailey - I was just lucky to find a good breeder who educated me on the genetic defects that occur in this breed and showed me the testing paperwork on his parents. And before I joined this website I didn't know anything about puppymills or commercial brokers. So if I had seen an ad on petfinder advertising an OES puppy, even if I had read Flawdogs mission statement I wouldn't have understood the implication of a Class B dog. That's why education is so important - buyers need to understand the possible health problems and medical expenses in order to make an informed decision. If not, the poor dog is just going to get turned into another shelter (or worse) when the owner can't afford or doesn't want to be bothered with the health care issues. Not everyone has a heart as big as OES Mama and you!
So, RIBSY, I guess I can ask you this one. Does Sally explain to the buyers that because these dogs are rescued from mills there may be resultant medical issues and expenses? And what happens if a buyer gets the dog home to their own vet and discovers issues that they can't afford to deal with - does Sally take the dogs back? Sue |
| In My Opinion..... There is Rescue and there is Rescue.... I think that people look at those pictures of those Babies and Want To Save Them......They read that they are from puppymills..... ....Most people don't even know what a puppymill is.....They just want to save as Puppy!!!!!!!!!!! Then they get a sick puppy and don't know which way to turn.........It is Russian Roulette.....You may get a healthy one or you may not...You can't always tell what is wrong with a Baby until it is a little older... But, what do you expect??? Kaye Second Chance OES Rescue |
| i got a dog there...from flaw dogs. she is legit. these dogs are a mixed bunch and i dont think she would be buying to resell, because alot of them have problems. besides she wanted a certain amount for mine and i paid less, less than half of what she wanted. these dogs do have problems though and you will need alot of patience. she gets them from puppymills so alot of these dogs have lived in cages. emotional problems take time. good luck. |
Shug wrote: In My Opinion..... There is Rescue and there is Rescue.... I think that people look at those pictures of those Babies and Want To Save Them......They read that they are from puppymills..... ....Most people don't even know what a puppymill is.....They just want to save as Puppy!!!!!!!!!!! Then they get a sick puppy and don't know which way to turn.........It is Russian Roulette.....You may get a healthy one or you may not...You can't always tell what is wrong with a Baby until it is a little older... But, what do you expect??? Kaye Second Chance OES Rescue
a disreputable home doesn't make a kind dog any less deserving of a good home, and if this site offers dogs with no other homes, you aren't supporting puppy mills, you are rescuing their failed sales. |
| Ed, In The Dream World....There wouldn't be any puppymills, commercial breeders, dog auctions, irresponsible breeders, dogs sold to research facilities, dogs chained to trees, beaten to death, dumped on back roads......... In the Real World......... I believe in Standing in the Sunshine........Not hinding in the shadows.........I believe in Doing What My Heart Tells Me To Do.........Not What Other People Think I Should Or Should Not Do.......What is wrong to one person is right to another......I don't think anything is cheseled in stone.........Kaye |
| just a little perspective.
i think what you do is incredible, i give you tons of credit, you clearly have a heart of gold. all i'm saying is that some of your posts here reflect that you look down on the dogs bred in these mills and by these irresponsible people... regardless of how they came to be, legitimate, purebred, mutt, beaten, abused, pamperred, they are living creatures, and i wouldn't tell any dog that it didn't deserve a second chance just because it had messed up teeth or bad hips. |
| gold. all i'm saying is that some of your posts here reflect that you look down on the dogs bred in these mills and by these irresponsible people... regardless of how they came to be, legitimate, purebred, mutt, beaten, abused, pamperred, they are living creatures, and i wouldn't tell any dog that it didn't deserve a second chance just because it had messed up teeth or bad hips. _________________ Oh Ed, If I have left that impression I a truly sorry.........Sometimes I am a Little Heated and don't always make sence... I certainly don't care where a Baby comes from or what its pedigree is....Age, Pedigree, Medical problems makes no difference to me....After all aren't those the Babies that need the Help the most.....The ones that no one else wants... I have problem with ANYONE pumping out unhealthy Babies........I am PRO DOG not PRO PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kaye |
Shug wrote: Oh Ed, If I have left that impression I a truly sorry.........Sometimes I am a Little Heated and don't always make sence... I certainly don't care where a Baby comes from or what its pedigree is....Age, Pedigree, Medical problems makes no difference to me....After all aren't those the Babies that need the Help the most.....The ones that no one else wants... I have problem with ANYONE pumping out unhealthy Babies........I am PRO DOG not PRO PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kaye
oh, sorry misunderstood, sometimes it's tough to gather meaning without verbal cues when reading a dialogue. i agree, that unhealthy breeding is a problem. |
| it is hard to turn your back on a pet store puppy, or a barkyard breeder's puppy, or an internet puppy bred by Joe's Happy Kennels. The reality is that every time Joe Public buys one of these pups the money goes straight into the backyard breeder or the miller's pocket, so they can continue to pump them out, and the poor parents of those mill pups continue their inhumane exisitence. When they die a cruel, cold death, never having known a soft bed, or a tummy full of healthy food, they are replaced by the next batch of breeding dogs, often the ones that didn't get sold. You decide whether you want to support the deed or fight it. Eveyone is either part of the solution or part of the problem, and by simply supply and demand every "purchase" fuels the cycle. And Anyone or organsiation that lets a pet quality puppy or dog go to a new home with out being spayed or neutered is not helping. We all have the choice of which side we want to be on. |
| To answer a few questions about Flawdogs (my friends/family have adopted 7 dogs from them):
1. They get two kinds of dogs: mill dogs and rescued/abandoned pets. Of the dogs we've (again, friends and family) adopted, two were given up when their owners divorced (a schnauzer and a scottie), one was abandoned in a Petco (a poodle), one was given up because her owners "couldn't give her enough attention" (another schnauzer), and three were mill dogs (two toy poodles and a scottie). By and large, the mill dogs were in worse shape when we adopted them (thin, one has no teeth, scared of human contact). This is entirely the result of living a life in a mill. Five years of abuse and neglect cannot be entirely undone in a few weeks or months. When the dogs arrive at Flawdogs, they are, very often, out of a cage for the first time in their life. Dogs that are stressed often have trouble gaining weight. Each of our "mill dogs" took a month or so to start gaining weight after we adopted them. Furthermore, even the non-mill dogs at Flawdogs have often had some sort of trauma in their lives, whether it's being left behind by their family or, as in the case for one of our dogs, tied out and left in a back yard for a year. In my experience, Sally and Carol have always been very explicit about each dog's past and, most importantly, how they've interacted with the dog. 2. We haven't had a problem with the dogs' health; the one exception is that one of our toy poodles had an ear infection about a month and a half after we brought him home. We've taken each of the dogs to our vet after we adopt them (just to introduce them and for a "second opinion"), and the ear infection wasn't present at that time, so I don't think the folks at Flawdogs missed anything. The only other health issues we have to deal with (the mill dogs have no teeth or missing teeth, one schnauzer has a heart murmur) were all present when Flawdogs received them and were fully disclosed before we took the dogs home. 3. They don't get rich doing this. We adopted a dog from the Humane Society and paid as much for her as we did for our Flawdogs. If you look at the adoption fees for Flawdogs, they ask for more on more "adoptable" dogs and less for the dogs that will take more work. For instance, my mini poodle (4 months old, former pet, house trained) was $250 and my toy poodle (5 years old, mill dog, no teeth, terrified of people) was given to us by Flawdogs because they just wanted him to have a good home. They have always been willing to cut the price for us because we have adopted before and they know the dogs will be taken care of. The money they make on the ready-made pet dogs goes toward the rehabilitation and care for the mill dogs that have never been socialized or cared for. Whomever made the accusation that they get rich doing this hasn't the faintest clue what they are talking about. 4. They do take dogs back if the adopter changes their mind. The bottom line for Sally and Carol is that these dogs have good homes and better lives than before they came to Flawdogs. If someone decides the dog isn't the one for them, they will take it back. I believe their policy is if, within 30 days, the adopter wants to return the dog, they can but they will only receive 1/2 of their money back. Don't quote me on that, as I've never even thought of returning any of my dogs. 5. A lot of people aren't familiar with puppy mills, especially those outside of the state of Missouri. If I'm not mistaken, Missouri has more puppy mills than any other state. The first dog we got from Flawdogs was NOT a mill dog, but they told us a lot about them while we were there. The next two dogs were mill dogs, but we still had to learn a lot from the dogs themselves. For example, one of our mill dogs barks at men. I thought maybe the mill he was at was run by men and he hated them for that reason. Turns out, most mills are run by women and, typically, mill dogs are fearful of men because they've never encountered them before. While I believe Sally and Carol are upfront about their mill dogs, I think there's so much that can't be conveyed by just "telling" someone how to deal with a mill dog. The last dog I adopted, Jack, was a mill dog and still trembles violently when he is held (we've had him for two months). He's getting better, but very slowly. As for the health of mill dogs, I know that Sally and Carol have several mill dogs that are too sick to adopt out. They don't let dogs be adopted if they have major ongoing medical issues, nor do they let dogs be adopted if they haven't been fixed (e.g. my mom's Scottie: we paid for him and then picked him up a week later after he was fixed). 6. Save your anger and disgust for people who run puppy mills and abandon or abuse their pets. The folks at Flawdogs are doing more than their share in helping to save as many dogs as they can. |
| Wow! Guess I must have made someone mad here, I went from being a member and having picx up to being a guest now. OK. Sorry for offending people ................................... all I did was ask questions about a place, and voice my frustration. Thank you truly to those who did support us, my dogs are finally healthy, and I was getting ready to post new pictures of how good they are doing, but I guess that's not important now. Take care. |
| Ummm you weren't a member yet when you first posted. That's why you appear as a guest. Nobody's been demoted.
Your first post was on the 11th, on the 15th...Karen posted: Iriskmj wrote: Congrats on your new babies. Please join the forum as a permanent member and post pics!!! Can't wait to see them! On the 16th you joined.
Karen Relax! I for one would love to see more of your pics. |
| 1/17/06
I had been looking for schnauzer to adopt when I came across flawdogs on petfinder. I went to a home and the dogs were keep in the garage in plywood type kennels. There were a lot of dogs at least 20, mostly pure breds. In fact in addition to taking the dog I went to see I also took an older female who had been bred to her limit. I didnt have to fill out an application, no questions were asked. To tell you the truth I just wanted to get those dogs out of there. Both dogs had ear infections, fleas and worms. This group cant be on the up and up. Anybody out there had the same experience as me??? |
| that's pretty disturbing, luckily the bulk of the stories seem to indicate that that is not the norm. |
| I said I was going to stay away from this tread.....I truefully just get to upset. ......... Staying away from the name calling...... ...... What happens to the Old Babies? Kaye Second Chance OES Rescue |
| OK OK OK, so I'd like to recant my above statement, can I blame it on STRESS???????
Sorry all for acting like a complete 13, well, maybe 12 year old. Kirstin, Mynie and Fez |
| Kristin, What did you do wrong? Worrying about 2 Sick Babies...So some people defended Flawdogs????That is their right and their opinion...This is a very emotional thing....I think we all look at what Flawdogs does in different ways.... I do rescue so I look at things differently... Someone that has only one and it is their first Sheepie would probally look at it differently...... Other breeders looks at it differently.....We all have opinions...... Some people think well they are saving Babies so what is wrong with that??? I have very mixed emotions about this...... IF I lived in Missouri and this was going on around me I might be right in the middle of it..I don't know....I am Proactive.....I can't set back and do nothing....Sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm wrong......I know it is hard to hear the stories of where these Babies come from and are going to be PTS and not want to save one......The same as it is to see one in a Pet store getting older living in a cage to small and not want to save it.... I think it is a matter of checking and making sure you know what you are getting into.......That you are prepared to take a Baby that comes from a puppymill and have no guarantees of health.......These millers don't do all the genetic testing .....They do just what they have to do.........This is a different breed anyway.....They are not meant for everyone..... Which makes the situation even harder....... So stop busting your chops for what ever you thougt you did....... Sheepie Hugs, Kaye.... |
| My apologies for upsetting anyone in my defense of Flawdogs, but I feel they do very good work, mostly with very difficult dogs (in the sense that most of them have never previously been socialized).
Just to respond to the person who adopted the schnauzer, my experiences with them have been similar in some ways (in that there's no lengthy application) and different in others (living conditions of the dogs was better than you had described, we haven't had any problems with the health of our dogs). I'm not sure how long your dogs were there; were they still under treatment for worms? I think that can take a while to clear up. It seems odd to me because we have 6 dogs from them (some of whom were there only a few days, some who were long-term residents) and none of them have had that problem. I'm ambivalent on the application process for a few reasons. We adopted a Briard (mix? who knows?) from the Humane Society in St. Louis last year. We called about her, were told she was at the main headquarters and so we drove there (a 45 minute drive for us). When we arrived, we were told that she had been taken to their adopt and shop "store" at an area mall. 45 minutes later, we arrived at the mall where we then had to wait an hour for the dog to arrive (I suppose they had other animals to drop off at other locations). Then, once she had arrived, we began filling out the paperwork, which took 4 hours. Because I'm resolute and stubborn, we stayed for the whole process. But not everyone would. Another adoption gone wrong story, but without a happy ending: a friend of mine spent 2 months trying to adopt a dog from a no-kill shelter in Maryland. She filled out pages upon pages of applications, wrote a 7 page letter about why she wanted the dog, brought her pet rabbit to meet the dog and was then told to wait. Eventually, the rescue called her and told her to come pick up the dog the next day. When she told them that she was going out of town for the weekend and, had she known she would be getting the dog she would not have planned the trip, the rescue told her that "because you are not dedicated to the dog, we won't be letting you adopt him." My point is this: while it's important to make sure the people who are adopting the dog are into it for the right reasons (and the dog won't end up on the street or back in your rescue), the FBI-like applications some groups use only deter people from rescuing a dog in the first place. So, instead of being adopted, they sit in a cage waiting for paperwork to be filled out. After my experience at the Humane Society and my friend's experience with the shelter in Maryland, I was surprised that it was pretty easy to adopt a dog from Flawdogs. Honestly, though, I was relieved that I didn't have to jump through a thousand hoops. And, frankly, I'm not so sure that all those hoops necessarily keep the wrong people from adopting dogs, either. I think they probably prevent more of the right people from rescuing a dog. As for Flawdogs' adoption policy, I'm not sure of their reasons for it. My guess -- and I don't speak for them, so this is just my guess -- is that they want to get the dogs into homes. Being as many of them have "issues" (ongoing health problems/quirks, socialization, house-training), the cards are already stacked against them. A laborious adoption process would only add to that. Again, just my guess. Could they do more? Yeah, sure. They would change it if they had major problems with it. I do know that the folks who run Flawdogs care about all of the dogs and happily keep in touch with the people who adopt their dogs. More than any other place I've ever adopted a dog from, they know each dog's personality and remember each of them (even the ones they only had for a few days). It's very different from adopting #1234 from the local pound. Okay, so I hope everyone's Flawdogs are doing well. My toothless toy poodle is curled up on a pillow at my feet and happy to not be living in a cage. At the end of the day, that's enough to make me feel a bit better about the world (but if I turn on Animal Planet and Animal Cops Houston is on, I might lose my temper again). |
| Is this Flawdogs website??????? http://www.flawdogs.com/ It looks a littel different then the infomation provided on Paetfinder.com...Just Curious!!!!!!!Kaye Second Chance OES Rescue |
| I adopted a German Shepherd rescue from flawdogs.The pup was about 7 mo.old and had never been allowed to exercise until Sally got her.She paddled along on her front legs,walking on her wrists(hyperextension).
Holly,as i call her,seemed just happy to be there,and certainly didn't want to leave with me. Anyway,Holly is now up on all fours,and is a beautiful,and slightly mischevious puppy.if not for Sally,she'd be dead or permanently crippled beyond hope. Sally has my vote. |
| http://www.petfinder.org/shelters/MO256.html
This is their site, the other one looks like a domain that is a blank search engine. |
| Dear Deartagnan:
I assumed the dogs were up to date on everything but again they both had fleas, worms and ear mites. I dont mind at all paying for these things I just wish they had said to have the dogs checked out by my vet. I wouldnt of had to treat my dog if they had. But I do feel better reading the positive remarks about flawdogs, I was suspicious after the health issues. But now I think they are a small group of well meaning folks trying to place these dogs and they are very clear about the behavior issues of these pups. For someone who is willing to "retrain" and socialize these pets are great. I have behavior issues with both dogs, but they are coming around in a nuturing environment and wouldnt trade them for a million. In the end I'm thankful to have found them, its hard to find purebreds for adoption |
| Beware to ANYONE considering adopting from them. I am not going to go into a lot of detail. However, someone I know was considering adopting from them until he met Sally and she was hateful and ignorant towards his CHILDREN! To top it off they were very interested in a couple of the dogs but once they met the dogs in person they saw the dogs were very clearly sick and not well caredf for. One dog had an obvious eye infection. And many of the dofgs were clearly much older than advertised. It shouldn't matter how old a dog is to love it. HOWEVER it is a responsibility to be truthful with people who are willing to pay to adopt these dogs from you. After visiting the dogs from Flawdogs, I was concerned about the germs we may have picked up there. It was horrid. Sally and the other woman from Flawdogs were rude, and they were only concerned with clients who were looking at the more expensive dogs. For a "rescue" group they charge an awful lot for their dog adoptions. I doubt some of the poor dogs will never find a home at those prices. They will live, unfortunately at the mercy of women who care only about money and nothing about the care and well being of the dogs. Much less other people. Sally really was hateful to this man and his kids. It was obvious to me she hates adults, kids, people, dogs, cats and ANYONE other than the almighty DOLLAR! I hear DOGGY DOODLES is bad as well. They accept "Cash only" for their adoptions. Beware both these groups. |
| I now have adopted two dogs from Flawdogs. A Dauschund and a Pug. Both are wonderful little dogs, Sure they were afraid at first, living in a cage and then being let out into the world must be scary! But they have become friendly lovable litlle pets. In response to the way the children were treated. I have seen children there, of course they want to pet and love on these dogs, but these animals have never been around children. It would be a shame if a little one got bit because a child moved too fast.My little Pug loves my Grandchidren but they have to be sitting and still for her to be comfotable with them. She gets better every day, but it does take time. You are not going to a special breeder that has socialized adults and puppies. These dogs have been bred over and over and never loved by anyone. Just fed and watered if that. They have been picked up by their heads or necks and thrown from cage to cage. Just imagine a child coming at their head without any warning.. I have never seen Sally say an unkind word to anyone, but if she felt that one of her dogs was in danger I'm sure she would respond accordingly. Of course many of the dogs have problems and she tells it like it is. Many of them seem older because of the life they have led. So many of them are missing teeth because of non nourishing food and by trying to bite their way out of a cage. I still have all the respect in the world for what Flawdogs is doing. Even if the old ones don't find loving homes they are in a wonderful place and never have to be caged or ignored again. As for kids, give the little dogs time and they will love them to pieces. Patience is the reward for these wonderful dogs. They are number one in my book.. Still happy in Missouri. |
| i adopted sandi, a 4 yr. old yorkie, from flaw dogs. i could not be happier with her. carol was extremely nice. we still call eachother about once a month for reports in on my girl. any more dogs that i adopt will be from flawdogs - no question about that. it was a pleasant experience and i have the most wonderful dog in the world! |
| Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in...I recently adopted a Pomeranian from Flawdogs and when I first showed up at the place, I was a little put off by te surroundings. But when I met Sally, I could see how much she loved those dogs and how much they loved her. That set my heart at ease. In any case, my little sweetie is doing great and I just feel lucky to have found her. |
| Those two pups are very luck that you have brought them into a loving and caring environment... CONGRATULATIONS on your new additions!!!
|
| can't find the pictures, help. thx, sue |
| Hey there-
I have been to Flawdogs, and met Sally in person. I've also adopted dogs from her. She is a saint. As she says openly, the dogs she has come from puppy mills. However, she rescues them. And keeps the ones no one will take. The dogs are happy, and running free, learning how to be dogs. Something they have never been allowed. I don't know anything about OES, I have italian greyhounds mostly, and they are almost all puppy mills rescues. Sally is very upfront about the personalities and possible problems with her dogs. She is the real thing. I live in OK, and the mills here and in Kansas and especially Missouri are heartbreaking. I've seen a few, and can tell you, Sally's is the antithesis of a puppy mill. She is doing God's work. Maggie Benedict |
| If you are speaking about Flawdogs in Missouri, I've not visited, but have emailed back and forth with one of their contacts. She has sent me pictures and is very open to visits. i've not seen anything so far that would say that they aren't legit. |
| I recently adopted a labradoodle puppy from Flaw Dogs (I think I saw the OES that you were looking at, what a cutie)
My labradoodle puppy was brought home and two days later was very, very sick. My vet said it was a Pseudomonas infection. I was very upset with Flaw Dogs but the vet told me that they could not have known the puppy was so sick and not to jump to conclusions. After nursing him with chicken broth and being touch and go for several days, I am happy to say that Max is fine. My grandmother told me that the lady that runs Flaw Dogs used to run a very respected no kill shelter in Saint Louis, Open Door Animal Sanctuary. I called her to tell her the puppy was sick and she seemed genuinely horrified. She immediately offered to take him to the vet. I told her I just wanted to warn her so that she could give the other pups he was in contact with some antibiotics. (his new nickname is Thyphoid Max) I think a dog from one of the puppy mills had a very bad bug and passed it around. I get the feeling she is legit and has a genuine love of animals. I love our new puppy very much and was going to send her some pics and saw this blog when I googled Flaw Dogs. I thought I should defend them and give my story. |
| I just read the reply about the sick puppy. I have adopted four lovely dogs from Flawdogs and am extremely happy with all of them. I also volunteer for them on weekends. Any time a puppy gets sick they immediatly offer to take the dog back or take them to the vet themselves to remedy the problem. Many people don't understand that the dogs are mostly from the puppy mills, where they are barely taken care of. When there are so many dogs and puppies all crammed in a very small area and in small cages barely big enough to turn around in, there are going to be some that are going to get sick. Nothing real serious but needing attention. Once they get the medicines that they need they bounce right back. I know my Miniature Daschund did. He was perfect in a few days. These poor little dogs are so grateful for a chance at a loving home and they attach themselves so quickly to their new owners. I now know many people that have adopted from them and they are so glad that they did. I have been so blessed to get to know this wonderful group and how they can take these frightened dogs and turn them into loving pets. Even though mine have come from the mills they are the most devoted little dogs you could ever imagine, and they absolutely love children. They will let kids pet them for hours on end. All they ever needed was love. So weather they are puppies or the older dogs, which three of mine are, they certainly deserve the chance to be a real pet. They will love you forever. A friend is all they need. |
| We adopted a French Bulldog from Flawdogs back in March of 2006. Overall, I agree with those posters who think Sally is well intentioned and is trying to help dogs. However, I disagree with some of the methods she uses. Our story is a long one: please bear with me.
We had our Boston Terrier for a year when we decided to get another dog. Before we decided to add a second dog to our family, we carefully planned our budget and honestly evaluated the cost of a second dog. My husband is in medical school, and we wanted to be sure that we could afford vet bills, vaccinations, increased food costs, training, etc. We felt it was an expense we could handle. We were thrilled when we saw a Frenchie on petfinder.com--they are very hard to find for rescue. The rescue fee for her was high--$400--but we didn't flinch, as we've seen reputable Frenchie rescues charge the same amount. (French Bulldog Rescue Network, for example: http://www.frenchbulldogrescue.org/) Sally told us over the phone and via email before we drove up to MO to pick up our 2-year-old Frenchie girl that she had an excellent personality, had recovered from an ear infection, and had no other health problems. In different conversations she told us that on her second litter of puppies her uterus had either become "infected" or "ruptured," which was why she was retired from the puppy mill. Sally was right about the personality (she is the sweetest dog!), and that's about it. After making the 6-hour drive, we found a dog with an ear infection so bad that her ear canal was visibly swollen shut. Sally's response was along the lines of "Whoops, I thought we had cleared that up." Despite the problem visible to any untrained eye, we took her home. Maybe we were naive. Maybe we just wanted to give her a good home. We took her to the vet as soon as we got to town. The vet was shocked when she saw the ear infection--she had never seen anything like it. Our poor girl also had conjunctivitis in her eye and a problem with vaginal discharge, which stumped the vet for quite a while. I called Sally the next day to let her know what bad shape the dog was in. When we asked for a refund or reduction of the high adoption fee so we could better meet the high medical costs the dog would need, Sally told us (for the first time) that the dog had actually come from another rescue and Sally had only mediated the adoption. Sally said the other rescue would not be able to refund our money. No mention was made of returning the dog for any sort of refund. That was news to us, and certainly felt like an excuse (a poor one) for not returning our money. We didn't make the check out to another rescue--we made it out to Flawdogs. The contract we signed said Flawdogs, no other organization. Sally did offer to send us medicines for our dog, as she can get this at cost. It was better than nothing, but we only took her up on it once; we simply couldn't wait weeks at a time to get ahold of Sally, tell her what we needed, and wait for it to come in the mail. After many, many vet visits, we were finally able to get the swelling in the ear down. Our little girl will need special medicines, ear cleaning every few days, and may need surgery later to deal with the polyps on her ears; the surgery may result in hearing loss. In addition, we keep her on an allergen-free diet as her ear problems are a related symptom of her severe allergies. In June we finally found got a diagnosis on the vaginal discharge problem we had been dealing with--it turned out to be a foreign body in the vaginal canal. I'll spare you the details, but we were horrified when our vet removed a puppy fetus that had entered the birth canal during our girl's last labor. Our vet was shocked as well. I cannot imagine why this problem was not discovered by Sally's vet when he performed the spaying procedure, especially as Sally should have informed this vet about the dog's puppy mill history, and the infection or rupturing of the uterus that we were told about. Long story not very short, in addition to the high adoption fee, we have spent well over $1,000 on vet bills in less than 6 months. We also spend more than expected on her special diet and medicines. When we calculated the costs of a second dog, we were certainly not prepared for this. It is not that we don't want to pay for our dog to be well--but if we had been informed of her extensive medical needs, we may have made a different decision about adopting her. We are on a very tight budget. At the very least, we would like to have been told we were getting a special needs dog. And yes, I think Sally should have held on to the dog long enough to know whether she was a special needs case or not. Sally did tell us we were getting a puppy mill dog--no arguments here. She did not however, warn us to anticipate any medical costs, let alone such severe medical costs. There were no warnings or discussions about dealing with severe ear infections or reoccurring ear infections. The vaginal discharge was glossed over by Sally (we were actually told that because it "doesn't smell" it was not something to worry about). Did Sally cause these problems? No. Did she save the dog from euthanization? Yes. But was she honest with us in her description of the dog's health? No. Is she using a reputable vet that will help her decide if a dog is healthy enough to be placed? No. Is she giving potential adopters the full story? No. Is she using the time she fosters the dog to make sure the dog is a good candidate for placement (both physically and socially)? No. Does she have too many dogs? I would say yes, as she either chose not to or was unable to spend the adequate time on this dog's health and history before placing her. Are her adoption fees too high? I would say yes, as it is painfully clear that our dog received only the most minimal veterinary care before being placed with us. I can only hope that the adoption fee went to help other dogs, as the money apparently did not cover medical expenses our dog received. Should you adopt from Flawdogs? Well, that's up to you. If you do, try to avoid high-profile breeds. From our experience, she is pushing them out the door before they are ready for placement because she knows someone will pay lots of money for them. And if you do, be prepared for hidden medical costs that Sally is either unable or unwilling to inform you about. By the way, I'll be sending a copy of this post on to Sally herself and on to petfinder.com. One last note, our poor girl just developed a spinal problem with a disc in her neck. There is no way Sally could have known about this one, as it has been nearly six months since the dog was with her. The surgery to fix the problem is estimated at $1,000. We honestly don't know how we will pay for it on top of the other expenses we've already taken on for her. My heart is breaking for our poor girl--we don't want her to live in pain. Please send positive thoughts our way! |
| I am responding to the story about the French Bulldog. It is too bad that the real facts weren't told. The puppy came from another rescue and was adopted through Flawdogs as a favor. The Frenchie never went to Flawdogs Vets. It was taken to the Vet for the other rescue. If the person that adopted the dog would have examined her closely they should have left the dog with Flawdogs and they could have gotten hold of the other reascue and had them treat her until she was well. I know they came a long way, but you never take a dog unless you know it is healthy or are willing to take responsibility for it after the fact. They were told about the discharge and the ear infection and yet they took her home anyway. Flawdogs is up front with information on the dogs that are rescued. Many of them have been so neglected that they may always have a health problem. But they tell you when you look at the dogs what the problem is and how it can be dealt with. Many of the dogs spend the rest of their lives with Flawdogs because of their medical or physical prolems. They are never put to sleep and they live the rest of their little lives as comfortable as possible, with love and tenderness. I hate to see Sallys name dragged through the mud for something that was obviously not her fault. If she was unable to answer all of their questions it was because she didn't know all of the circumstances from the other rescue. The checks go to Flawdogs and then they in turn write a check to the other rescue. Please check all of the facts before hurting a wonderful rescue group. Not just Flawdogs but any of them. They are trying to give the dogs a chance at a life where they are loved and taken care of instead of being killed at the mills before they ever know what love and kindness are. If the brokers don't take them the mills either give them to different rescues or club them to death, because they are not allowed to sell them to anyone else. They all have contracts with brokers and that is their policy. It's very sad but a fact of life. I hope the little Frenchie does well and overcomes her problems. I'm sure she is a wonderful dog. I'm sorry if i got a little carried away but I want these dogs and puppies to have the best life they can have and the rescue groups are doing just that. Thank You. |
| Hello again. I am the original poster with the Frenchie adoption story. I felt that there were so many statements in the last post that required a response that I have quoted from it frequently below and added my response after. If you took the time to read my original post, you know I’m wordy—sorry! My apologies also to the OES community, for having hijacked this forum.
Quote: I am responding to the story about the French Bulldog. It is too bad that the real facts weren't told. You may or may not have meant to do this, but indirectly calling me a liar doesn’t engender any positive feelings about the situation. I told the facts as accurately as I could and left nothing out. You can choose to believe or not believe me, as is your right, but what I wrote represents the reality of the situation. Quote: The puppy came from another rescue and was adopted through Flawdogs as a favor. See my original post: we were never informed of another rescue until after the dog was home with us. No mention was made of another rescue when we originally contacted Flawdogs, and no mention was made when we picked the dog up. To this day, no actual name of this mystery rescue has been given. Maybe I’m just jaded, but blaming everything on an unnamed mystery rescue seems like a convenient excuse. Quote: The Frenchie never went to Flawdogs Vets. It was taken to the Vet for the other rescue. If the person that adopted the dog would have examined her closely they should have left the dog with Flawdogs and they could have gotten hold of the other reascue and had them treat her until she was well I am curious how you know the details of our Frenchie’s time at Flawdogs and her vet history. I was never informed of another vet. Indeed, I spoke with Sally over the phone a month or so after the adoption seeking facts about the dog’s spaying procedure (in hopes that we could solve the discharge problem). Sally did not tell me her vet had not been responsible for the procedure. She never even hinted that there had been another vet. Quote: I know they came a long way, but you never take a dog unless you know it is healthy or are willing to take responsibility for it after the fact. You are right, we did choose to take the dog despite visible problems. I admit our fault in this. See my original post: we were too naive, too hopeful, and too uninformed about ear infections, etc. This is my opinion, and just my opinion so take it for what it is: I really feel that because she was a rare breed and many people (including us) were willing to pay a high fee for her, the dog would have been quickly passed on to another unsuspecting person who would not have been informed of the health issues either. I feel like it’s another low blow to say that we are not taking responsibility for our dog—to wit we have spent quite a lot of time, effort, and money to make her as happy and healthy as she deserves to be. As I said before, we did ask for a full or partial refund on our adoption fee, because one vet visit was enough to learn how expensive her future care would be. We were originally willing to pay the fee because we thought it would cover vet bills the rescue had taken on. Sine the rescue apparently gave little vet care, we felt it would be fair of them to help us provide that care by refunding some money. My problem is not that the dog needs care—my problem is that we weren’t given even a HINT how much care she might need for her ears. My problem is that she needed care that should have already been given to her by the rescue and its vets but that wasn’t given, resulting in a costly surgery we funded. My problem is that we paid a high adoption fee in good faith, assuming it would cover the vet care she had already received but later found out she hadn’t. My problem is that I shouldn’t feel cheated or scammed because I chose to pay a generous fee or adopt a dog. Quote: They were told about the discharge and the ear infection and yet they took her home anyway. We weren’t TOLD of these problems. They were only discussed when we picked the dog up because we noticed the problems and asked Sally about them. Had we not commented, I doubt either issue would have been discussed. Quote: Flawdogs is up front with information on the dogs that are rescued. Many of them have been so neglected that they may always have a health problem. But they tell you when you look at the dogs what the problem is and how it can be dealt with. Although we were told that the dog had likely had an ear infection all her life, Sally reassured us before we made the drive that it was completely cleared up. To me, “up front” means that she should have been SURE the infection was gone before putting the dog up for adoption. “Up front” would also indicate that she should have told us that a persistent ear infection probably meant a chronic health problem and warned us our dog may need vet care for this for the rest of her life. If Sally was not aware of this, her vet should have warned her of this when the dog was checked before adoption—if she ever was. Quote: I hate to see Sallys name dragged through the mud for something that was obviously not her fault. As I said, I admit our blame here; we helped to create the situation by adopting a dog that was clearly unhealthy. We really were naïve: we thought one vet visit and one round of antibiotics would clear up her problems. But there is no way you can claim that Sally bears no blame in this situation--she obviously does. She made the decision to place a dog that was not ready for adoption under the Flawdogs name. In fact, she never should have placed this dog for adoption on petfinder.com in the first place, as they ask that all rescues post only their own dogs. Quote: If she was unable to answer all of their questions it was because she didn't know all of the circumstances from the other rescue. Please check all of the facts before hurting a wonderful rescue group.
You used your post to try to convince us that Flawdogs gives their adopters full disclosure of any potential health issues. If that were really true, she should have known the details of our dog’s problems, regardless of what rescue the dog originally came from. As far as fact checking goes, there are no facts to check: these are them. You may choose to disbelieve, but I’ve described our experience truthfully. I don’t know your name or your relationship to Sally, but I understand your loyalty to a friend. Regardless, that does not change the reality of our disappointing adoption experience. The bottom line is this: While I am grateful Flawdogs saves dogs from being killed, I am not the first person to post here because of a disappointing experience with them. While many have posted of their positive experiences with them, several others here have had bad experiences like mine. My intention in posting here is not to hurt Flawdogs but to tell my story. If the facts are hurtful to them, they need to make sure things like this don't happen again. I hope Flawdogs looks at disappointed adopters on here and rethinks their adoption policies—better practices would result in fewer complaints like mine and those of other posters. I also hope that anyone thinking of adopting from Flawdogs reads our stories and goes in with eyes wide open, so they are not later disappointed as we were. |
| Ron, can we be done with this now? I think a lot of opinions have been offered on both sides for Flawdogs. |
| You know, the more that gets posted in this thread the more it reinforces my original feeling that Sally aka *Flawdogs* is indeed nothing more than a broker. No matter what area she participates in, it is part of the commerical pet trade in Missouri, which is sickening to me.
I also still do not feel these animals are better off living in what I think are most likely unsanitary, overcrowded conditions with inadequate care in every sense of the word. Perhaps it is showing more mercy or whatever you want to call it to let them be put to sleep. At least they're not in pain, or ill anymore. Whether or not Sally's original intentions were truly in the best interests of the dogs I don't know, and it's not for me to say. Just to be clear, this is only my opinion. |
| Brokers only take the best of the puppies from the mills. These particular mills are licensed by the state. They have to provide food, doesn't have to be quality food, water, nothing states it has to be clean and shelter. Just a roof is required.
The puppy mills then are not allowed to sell the puppies that the brokers don't want or need. they are to be destroyed. Granted some of them may have issues, but do they deserve to die, just because they aren't perfect. If the rescue groups weren't able to get these animals there are many people that would miss out on a wonderful animal that just wasn't perfect in the eyes of the brokers. When the rescues get the dogs they are all spayed or neutered, given there shots and if they are older dogs there teeth are cleaned and they are checked for worms and heartworms if they have them . Which can be very expensive. I'm not saying some of them don't get passed over by any of the vets. After all they are human too, and we all make mistakes. I was in no way calling anyone a liar. I am just sorry you had so many problems. I would be upset too, if it happened to me or my dogs. I do know that these particular dogs are not in two-foot by two-foot cages ever again, and they can play on grass or dirt or mud for the first time in their lives. The pens they are in are not concrete and small they are huge areas where they can run and play and also come into the house through dog doors anytime they want. Big or small they are welcomed. They also have to be inspected yearly. They get baths. There first ever. They get beds, toys, love. All the things they never had before. I really don't think killing them would be better than to have those things if only for a little while after living the most deplorable of lives where they were. There are entirely too many animals euthanized already. Why do it to more? I'm sure that anyone that has gotten a dog or puppy from a rescue is so thankful that no one did that to their dogs. Oh well I agree it was a terrible thing and I know you love your little Frenchi and I wish you good luck with her from now on. I'm not with a rescue group but know first hand how they work and I applaud the people that have the love to try to help the best they can. |
| I recently adopted a beardie from flawdogs. I drove from the Chicago area to flawdogs in Missouri, to Carols house, one of the foster people, to get my puppy. The puppy was 4&1/2 months old. I had a very good experience with Carol. She has a big house and yes, she has lots of dogs. Everything was very clean and she really loves those dogs!
I have worked in emergency veterinary medicine for a long time. I see neglect cases and abused animals fairly often. The flawdogs women are very genuine and caring people! It makes me sad there are people always critical of others, yet would be unwilling to take on the work the flawdogs women do. I see dogs living in horrific conditions in many places in the city, uncared for, unloved. I looked on petfinder.com because I knew they were shelter listings, and found flawdogs and found my beardie puppy. I could not spend $2000.00 on a beardie puppy, like most people in the world who don't have expendable cash, and felt like rescuing a dog was my true belief in getting a dog anyway. I recently lost my beardiemix to cancer, which I found wandering the streets originally, and felt if one came along I would get another in a minute. She is a wonderful beautiful dog! I think peoples expectations are a little too high in this situation. Carol does rescue work. She is a good person. I can say with assurance shes not making money on these dogs. I meet people who make money on dogs at work, I know what they're like. It's all about the money, not the dogs. I could not do what Carol does. I admire her for giving up a so called normal life to spend every minute taking care of helpless homeless dogs, the work is endless and I'm sure rewarding. I am too emotional a person to keep it together to take on so many animals. Thank God someone can! I know no one wants to promote puppy mills, I don't either. They are horrible places. These dogs need homes like any other dog you find in another shelter, on the street or at a breeder. I understand the OESD breeders are upset that these OESD's are there. I know the legitimate breeders love their dogs are careful with breeding lines, and genuinely care about the future on the breed itself. The world is not a perfect place. If you saw some things that I see at work you would be happy there are people like flawdogs trying to help animals live a better life. Melissa |
| This is in response to the individual that recently adopted a pomeranian from Flawdogs. I live within two miles of Sally and my dog was recentlystolen, I have a witness. Is there anyway that I can correspond with the individual to see if this is my dog? I have had to "withdraw" my dog from her in the past. I highly recommend that NO one do business with them. If you lived in the area you would know why. How can this non-profit organization afford the Flawdogs vehicle that they have? Also, why do you see it "combing" the area. |
| Was your home broken into? Or was your dog taken from your fenced yard?
You wrote that you've had to reclaim your dog from FD before this. Does your dog run loose? It would not be unlike any rescuer to find a loose dog, pick it up, and in time, place it. You mentioned an FD vehicle. Many rescuers use their own vehicles but add signs and/or decals to represent their rescue. Even if that's not the case, operating as a not-for-profit does not mean not having the means to care for the animals, including transportation. So far, I see no evidence that FD has done anything wrong. |
| I just got a Chessy girl from Flawdogs. Wonderful people great dog perfect health. She is a Breeder reject. |
| Hi I just wanted to add to this thread, as I too have adopted a dog from FlawDogs in St. Louis Missouri. (In fact that's how I came across your forum, I googled "Flawdogs" )
I didn't adopt an OES, but I did get a wonderful Soft-Coated Wheaton Terrier from them. "Fluffy" came to my home 6 months ago, blind in one eye (a birth defect) one ear chewed 1/2 off and a bit small for 4 1/2 months old. He had all of his shots, had been altered and was badly in need of love & a forever family. I know from talking to the person I received Fluffy from, that he did come from a puppy mill, and was going to be euthanized due to his blind eye, So Flawdogs saved my best buddies life. The lady I dealt with didn't know what happened to his ear, but I'm sure it was due to something or someone at the puppy mill. Fluffy, has turned out to be my best little buddy, in fact he's laying on my feet as I type this. Unfortunately, I had to have his blind eye removed as it developed an infection, but you'd never know by looking at him or the way he behaves he's a "flawed dog"
I moved from Denver Colorado to a small town south of Springfield, Missouri 4 years ago.. I've undergone LOTS of culture shocks, one of them being the way people treat animals, their supposed pets (I'd never heard of an "outside dog until I moved here   and people don't believe in "inside dogs here. ) The attitude towards pets is very different, cold and uncaring.
Puppy mills are EVERYWHERE, people here are either under educated or uneducated, so the majority of the population is "low income". They find anyway they can to support themselves, unfortunately there are not a lot of requirements or restrictions on breading & selling puppy's ... any hillbillie can do it, and most do.. with very little concern for the dogs. There are also very large Amish & Mennonite communities in Missouri, these communities bread & sell just about all types of animals, with no concern for the animals, they don't believe animals have a "soul" so it's quality of life is no concern to them. If the animal isn't capable of producing work or money it's life is not of any value & they are killed or left to die a slow and horrible death from lack of food, water etc.. There is little to no animal control, or humane shelters. What little there is, is extremely inadequate due to the lack of laws, codes, staffing, funding, housing and just plain care & concern for the lives of animals. It's pathetic at best. I personally live outside the city limits on 5 acres of land, all of the other homes around me are on the same type of property or bigger. People are constantly dropping their unwanted pets off "out in the country" to fend for themselves, there is no animal control where I live, IF I were to take every abandon animal to Springfield (the nearest shelters) & IF these shelters had room & would take the animals, I'd have to pay $75.00 to drop them off. Fortunately for me, there is a farmer down the road that puts out food for these abandon animals, but he doesn't provide any type of vet care, when they get sick or injured he shoots them. Sounds disgusting & like I live in some primitive place not in the United States.. shocking I know, but it's all true & all to sad.
So however "flawed" some of you may find "Flawdogs", they are truly these animals guardian angles, they save them from horrible life's & deaths. I wish they had a facitlity here, it is badly needed. Oh.. you may be asking why I googled "Flawdogs", well I'm wanting to adopt another dog so Fluffy can have a playmate & I can have a buddy laying on my other foot. Thanks for letting me say my piece. Fan of Flawdogs |
| I just purchased a puppy from flawdogs. They said that he was all up to date on shots and healthy as can be. He had a little scab on his neck that they said was a dog bite.. But it wasn't and he wasn't ok, we took him to a different vet and he had worms, an ear infection, parasites and had a cold. Now it has been nearly a month later and after thinking he was going to be ok we find out that this dog bite is a stage 3 mast cell tumor, yes on a puppy, and we had to put him to sleep over the weekend... We spent a little over $600 in vet bills in under a moth, for stuff we should of been told about... I don't think I will buy from flawdogs again |
| Ooooh... that is so sad.
I'm very sorry for your loss.
I do hope you'll find another pup to love... maybe from the local humane society or a different rescue. He/she will never replace this pup you lost but they do have a way of filling that awful void left behind. Best wishes to you during this sad time... |
| I knew nothing about flawdogs before this post but, after reading a number of messages in this thread, I'm quite surprised that the Humane Society hasn't been involved.
My own personal opinion - the number of supporting posts from guests is received as "noise" but maybe that's just me? There was a post or two mentioning the idea that a reputable rescue group would have the dog properly vetted and spayed/neutered before adoption. Sometimes people haven't had the time or the knowledge to set up that sort of structure. My Phoebe was found running loose a few miles from here. It took Animal Control over three months to catch her (she's a crafty one). Because of where she was found, they didn't want to take her into the city for fear that her owners would not be able to find her (not that the "owners" could have tried very hard if she was running loose for three months, in my opinion). Anyway, they took her to a local farm here where they knew the woman there wouldn't say no to a hungry animal. This woman, by the time Phoebe got there, was clearly overwhelmed. She had never intended to run a rescue kennel for wayward animals but had a good heart and found it very difficult to send a dog away. She built dog runs to accomadate the growing numbers, had arrangements with local vets for checkups etc, and received donations of food and supplies for these needy animals. But it was a constant struggle and the place was full. Phoebe, in her condition, was clearly more than this woman could handle. Originally, my intention was to foster her while we located her owners (okay I admit that I would have seen them charged if we could prove any intent). This woman was very clear with me that she was unfamiliar with the breed and didn't know what health risks may crop up. She also elicited a promise that I would have her spayed if she stayed with me. Phoebe was seriously underweight and badly matted (I've never had to clip so close) but the bottom line for me was that she was alive. I don't know how much longer she would have lived out on her own. I also don't know that she would have survived a shelter in the city because she looked so unhealthy, I tend to think she would have had a very short timeline there before they euthanized her. Anyway, what I'm trying to say here is that not all rescues are clean and not all people running shelters originally intended to do so. Sometimes it just works out that way. The good news is that my Phoebe is very healthy and quite content to consider this home. We decided to stop trying to find a home for her when she stopped taking herself for walks and settled in to this as her home. |
| I've been to Flawdogs and brought home a wonderful 10 yr old male doxie. This place is awesome! Sally accepts puppy mill dogs (and others)that would have been put down after their service AND ones that didn't turn out so good according to retail standards. She takes in old and young and has established a non-judgemental relationship with breeders in order to save as many as possible. I drove from Florida and spent half a day with SAlly. God bless this woman for the work she's doing and the lives she's saving. FYI: Sally ran a large humane society before going on her own and getting rid of the red tape that govenment backed shelters insist on. If you visit, you'll be amazed at her undertaking and you'll love the puppies running and playing all around you. I dare you to leave there without crying and wishing you could do more. Tell Sally MARVIN sent you. He's my new doxie and it was worth the trip. Wish I'd brought more of them home...........
Elaine |
| Many of the local rescue groups have been "rescuing" dogs from puppy mills....not sure why they think that will help the huge problem we have here in Missouri. |
| I adopted a 15 week male Pom from Flawdogs last fall for 250.00, there has been no problems with him in fact he is beautiful, looks better than the Pom I paid 750.00 for from a breeder in KC that told me she could be show quality, shes not. I did asked Sally why they had this Pom and was told it was just because he had a decended Testicle.
any wrote: I just purchased a puppy from flawdogs. They said that he was all up to date on shots and healthy as can be. He had a little scab on his neck that they said was a dog bite.. But it wasn't and he wasn't ok, we took him to a different vet and he had worms, an ear infection, parasites and had a cold. Now it has been nearly a month later and after thinking he was going to be ok we find out that this dog bite is a stage 3 mast cell tumor, yes on a puppy, and we had to put him to sleep over the weekend... We spent a little over $600 in vet bills in under a moth, for stuff we should of been told about... I don't think I will buy from flawdogs again
I have a Flawdog & and there has been no problems with him. But if you read the contract you signed, they would have paid for the vet costs if you used thier vets & they have a refund policy. |
| I don't think this site should be used as a "Flawdogs" promotional.
I personally have no experience with this group but it is would appear that there are people who have had great difficulty with Flawdogs. why is it that the primary posters on this thread are "guests"???? |
| because maybe they just ran across the site, like I did. And seen a question or something they wanted to answer to be nice & help out.
Im sorry I don't want to join & come here all the time. |
| I do not know about the ligitimacy of the "Flawdogs" organization. However, I will record my experiences with them here.
Flawdogs used to bring several dogs to the Arnold Pet Co. on Sundays for adoption. I went one Sunday and found a 7-week old puppy Cairn Terrier. The price was $250, a very reasonable price for a puppy that according to what I have learned, barely covers the cost of vetting. They would not let me take the puppy initially because they insisted on getting her vetted, spayed, give her puppy shots, etc. I arranged to come a week and a half later and pick her up after all these procedures were complete. I paid half the money at this time, and signed a contract. No questions were made about my place of residence, style of living, other pets, etc. At this time, I was naive about puppy mills, etc., and just wanted a dog that I could afford. Flawdogs was feeding all these dogs on science diet, and were dealing with their own vets. One week later they told me to meet them at Hillsboro McDonalds to pick up my puppy. Three other puppies were also adopted at this time. I met them at the McDonalds and paid the final half of the adoption fee. They gave me my puppy, along with some medication to give her "just in case" during the first week or so and a bag of Science diet. Also, I was instructed to bring her back to the Arnold location a week later to receive her final puppy booster shots. My puppy was very small, underweight, and smelled terrible. When I got her home, I began crate training, loving, etc. I of course took her to the vet the next day and he checked her out. She had been spayed and had received some of her shots. The vet recommended we wait the extra week, get the rest of her shots, see how she was doing, and bring her back. No heartworm was detected, etc. Within that week she did not eat anything or drink anything, and she slept most of the time. I asked my vet about this and he suggested various alternatives that I tried. I took her to the Arnold location and they gave her the final shots right there in the store by pulling out a syringe and injecting her in front of me. I told them about the eating problems and was assured that these were normal for dogs that had been rescued from mills. They gave me some very rudimentary paper work that basically just included which shots they had given her and her date of spay. I was, of course, feeding my puppy the medication that Flawdogs had given me. It was very bitter medication, and my puppy would spit it up no matter what method I used to administer it. The medication consisted of Albon and Metronitozol. After a few more days, she became so lethargic I became desperate to get her to eat so I mixed wet food with her dry food (I was new at dogs). Of course, this resulted in vomiting and diarrhea. I took her to the vet again. The vet administered a few shots that I guess Flawdogs had missed (their paperwork was not very intelligible to my vet), injected her with fluids, and force-fed her a high-calorie wet food, and gave me a banana-flavored Albon for her to take. Over the next few weeks I administered the banana Albon (which she loved), and force-fed, force-made her drink. She didn't seem to improve much. I took her back to the vet and they checked her stool again, this time finding Coccidia. He gave me Metronitozol pills to mix in her food. After the this round of meds, she perked up like crazy and began to have a healthy diet. She had no fear or aggression problems. She did have some abandonement issues, but she got over these in a few weeks. Today, Hazel is the picture of K-9 health. She's a healthy, loved, sweet, energetic, well-adjusted dog. No problems, no complaints. In summary, I'd say Flawdogs is a struggling organization that is a bit spotty/controversial, but they're deffinately not puppy-mill material. Yes, they missed a few shots and yes, I got a sick dog right off the bat. However, consider where they GET these dogs. Also, they DID spay her properly and they did give me the medicines she would need--they were just in an icky form she wouldn't take. Some of the methods they used, and the fact that Hazel was smelly and sick, etc., were questionable. But, I attributed these to the fact that they had just received Hazel recently from the mills. The organization is run by volunteers and could be better organized and have better practices--but it's not mercenary. The prices they charge are indicative of an organization that is not in for profit. I currently am a member of some much better-organized rescue groups. Flaw dogs is known to several of the members of my current organization as a struggling group that DOES receive pets from puppy mills, take care of them in various capacities, and find new owners without charging erroneous charges. Most of the dogs they have available would have died if they had not stepped in. I don't think they have the best methods, again, but at least they're doing SOMETHING. |
I see many fellow oes members - not guests, are interested in making lots of comments about this. Most of the comments are conjecture, and just stirring up alot of guest comments. But I wonder, are any of you interested enough to drive there and meet these people - if they are helping dogs you could be scaring away adoptees that might be saving dogs lives. If they arent helping dogs, then do something constructive about it. I dont think I have seen a thread with so much potential danger which ever side of the issue you are on.  |
4Sophie wrote: I see many fellow oes members - not guests, are interested in making lots of comments about this. Most of the comments are conjecture, and just stirring up alot of guest comments. But I wonder, are any of you interested enough to drive there and meet these people - if they are helping dogs you could be scaring away adoptees that might be saving dogs lives. If they arent helping dogs, then do something constructive about it. I dont think I have seen a thread with so much potential danger which ever side of the issue you are on.
Surely you have mistyped. Going back over the las three pages of this thread there are 32 comments, 24 by "guests and 8 by members. In looking at the earlier pages the ratio is about the same. If you read the members post post you will see that most of them are not even about flaw dogs. This thread is more about non members dropping in to comment. |
| I stand corrected. But the message is still the same. We shouldn't have long threads about things like this. Just one of our posts that gets this stirred without first hand knowledge can still be a little dangerous. Information on the Internet lives forever and a person's or groups reputation should not be a source of debate. I am all in favor of posting the facts. That is why I love this forum so much. I can learn reliable info to help my sheepie and get really good advice.
So, keeping this on point, should we not check the facts out? |
| That would require Ron editing posts, something he prides himself on not doing.
This thread was started by and continued by "guests" it is not a reflection of the opinions of the members of this forum. Many of us wish these posts would just go away...... |
| I drove 2,000 mules round trip to adopt MARVIN, my gentle, shy, 10 yr old, puppy mill stud, dachshund that spent 8 years of his life alone in a cage before Sally rescued him. He was hard to place and lived with her for 8 months until I found him. He stole my heart. I spent several hours there and wish I lived near her so I could volunteer. It was hard to leave and I was profoundly moved by her devotion to these babies, big and small. Sally is a wonderful woman with a heart of pure gold.
Yes, even with all the medical care, Marvin had a few problems that still had to be dealt with. I did and he's fine. He's still very shy but wants to trust me. Slowly, he's coming around. I'm writing because evidently some of you still don't get it. The place is named FLAWDOGS for a reason. If you want perfect dogs, this is not the place for you.............. and YOU are definitely not the kind of home that these puppies need. God has blessed these special babies with the love Sally gives them all. She takes them in; young, old, big, small, blind, deaf, deformed, used up and dying. She plays no favorites. What someone else would throw away or kill, she takes in, loves, givesd medicao attention, and finds a home for them....... and, yes, many times tenderly strokes them (giving them a loving human touch for maybe the first time in their lives) as some of them leave this earth. So, if you feel you have no room in your home or heart for a FLAWED dog, at least send a donation so Sally can continue her good work. Oh, and to the person or persons who wonder if it would be better to just euthanize??????? I wouldn't trade my MARVIN for anything. I am so thankful that Sally saved him for me. My world is better because Marvin's in it. So the answer is NO, NOT, NEVER. Why would you even consider taking the life of such an innocent little thing that can only give y0u love and affection? These dogs (for the most part) aren't "flawed" because of genetics. they are "flawed" due to human neglect and human greed. They deserve a chance. ---------Marvin's mother |
| The is beginning to sound like a commercial for Flawdogs.
Can we be sure that Sally & fans herself is not posting as a guests? Maybe the guest postings options should be revamped????? |
| I don't doubt that there are honest positive comments about Flawdogs any more than honest negative comments.
Does that post about an 8 year old dachshund rescued after 8 months sound fishy to you? Not to me, but I might be naive. |
| ..and I just checked... the guest's IP address is approximately 1,000 miles from Missouri which is where Flawdogs is (I think).
It doesn't sound like they are making a profit, either: Flawdogs adoption page wrote: The adoption donation for this dog is $100. This will include all vaccinations, worming, and spay/neuter, full dental and rabies vaccination.
I've seen other adoption fees for $150 and $250. NEOESR, for instance, spends an average of around $500 for every dog it adopts out, if my math skills are right. I'm willing to entertain debate on whether rescuing dogs from puppy mills is a good thing or a bad thing in another thread, but I'm very interested to hear testimony good and bad about their operation. |
| not sure i meant fishy. just wish the guests would sign up
it would seem less clandestine. |
Ron wrote: It doesn't sound like they are making a profit, either:
Flawdogs adoption page wrote: The adoption donation for this dog is $100. This will include all vaccinations, worming, and spay/neuter, full dental and rabies vaccination. I've seen other adoption fees for $150 and $250. NEOESR, for instance, spends an average of around $500 for every dog it adopts out, if my math skills are right.. If you start talking rescue finances (another worthy thread somewhere else, quite frankly), it can quickly get complicated. WI rescue is run by the local OES breed club, and since I'm the treasurer of the club plus on the rescue committee I get a bird's eye view so to speak, and I also track our costs per dog. We s/n, heart worm test, vaccinate as needed, fecal and worming, and microchip as a matter of course. We'll also do hip x-rays or run thyroid tests on dogs that raise specific concerns (our angelic vet is an OES breeder and a member of the local club, as well as on the OESCA Health and Research committee, and she gives the club deep discounts. Actually, she helps other breed rescues as well - many vets will do this and they are absolutely critical to rescue efforts, but rarely get the credit they deserve. Without Amy, our medical expenses per dog could quickly rival your estimate of New England's). Our adoption fee is $200 and if I average it out over dogs, and we haven't had any medical disasters, we typically break even, mostly thanks to our resident vet (did I mention St Amy?) Even with an extraordinarily generous vet like that, you still have to take into account variables such as cost of living in various parts of the country. And that's as long as we don't have to board a dog. Although another WI OES breeder runs a boarding/grooming kennel, and will help us out as needed when she has space. Again, at a deep, deep discount. Since our club predominantly consists of breeders/exhibitors, they all know how to groom, so we generally do not pay grooming costs. Chicagoland is run similar to WI in a number of ways - deeply dependant on OESCA breeder efforts. One exception in our case is our newest (wonderful!) foster home - she's has always had her own dogs groomed and her groomer offered her a very kind discount on any foster dogs. I've offered to reimburse her, but she says that's part of her donation to the dogs. When you do rescue you really do count on the kindness of the entire dog community. Anyway, this is all regular stuff. New England can take on dogs that require expensive medical procedures that would wipe our entire club out, never mind our rescue fund, on a single dog. I would guess most other OES rescues in the country are more similar to us in terms of finances. New England has, I believe, been invaluable in a number of areas where there is little to no OESCA infrastructure in terms of getting rescues started and helping them keep going as needed. Colorado rescue, which is run by another OESCA breeder, as an example, will sometimes do specific fundraising for a given dog when medical expenses are high, such as a bitch who needed OCD surgery. We have persmission to dip into club funds as needed, but major expenses would need to be discussed by the board and we'd probably follow Colorado's lead after first passing the hat around to our own members. ` OESCA also does rescue fundraising and will reimburse rescues (So Cal and NYS does this, as well as others) a given amount per dog. The fund is not inexhaustable, so as long as we can break even, we try not to ask for help. For rescues like NYS, run by an Energizer Bunny Extraordinaire who doesn't have time to do much in the way of fundraising - she's also a breeder/exhibitor in her spare time - this can be a tremendous help. We all handle these things differently and do the best we can. But profit??
Kristine |
| I did not adopt from Flawdogs... ONLY because these poor mill kids needed more attention than I could provide. However, I did donate, as I believe they are doing the best they can. I understand why some believe it is overcrowed... I thought the same thing, and still believe that may be true. However, I also believe they are looking out for the best interest of these babies and although it may not be ideal, I would prefer to see overcrowding in a loving, helpful place, than at a mill.
Because of this group, I've gained much more awareness about Puppymills. I also volunteer for a rescue group closer to my home. I've now seen firsthand the horrors of puppymills. And yes, one DOES have to treat millers as if they are wonderful people. If I remotely expressed the horrors I've seen, the millers would shoot these babies rather than giving them to us. In addition, if I were to ever share with adoptive families where these babies come from.... the babies would suffer, not the rescue group. Therefore, it's not worth endangering these little souls by "outing" the miller. Working with millers has given me a whole new respect for Flawdogs. Again, I did not adopt from them. But they will always hold a special place in my heart and I commend all of volunteers who work with this organization. Perhaps we can quit slamming them AND/OR promoting them... and just appreciate them for the work they do. They are not perfect, but thank God the hard-luck babies they rescue are not judgemental. They just know they are finally loved. |
| At the risk of the wrath of my new friends on this forum. I'm going to post this.
While I value any and every rescue as being worth while, does Flawdogs qualify for this title? I read every post on this thread, and have to wonder at the amount of "guest" noise. Plus the fact that grammer and syntex of many of these posts tends to point to many of the same guests posting over and over again, different "Tales of satisfactory adoption". Perhaps I'm wrong and just cynical. I hope so, but the dealings I've had with ( legit ) OES rescue is much different then the tales told by some of these guests, that in my mind were lied to. Or if you like, were not told the full truth. For one, we got our OES rescue ( Gulliver ) from Jim Spurling out of Ky. Jim drives great distances ( or used to, I don't know having not spoken with him for many years now ) to rescue OESs. Jim spoke with us a few times on the phone and offered to meet us in Dayton Oh. Dayton being a half way point for both of us. We brought our other OES ( Obe ) with us so we could make sure both would get along. We met at a park and let the pups play together. They got along fine and after having a great time meeting Jim and his wife, signed a contract saying we would get both pups neutered. ( We did within two weeks ). We also gave Jim a nominal fee ( believe it was no more then 120.00. This was in 2000 ). Gulliver was fully vetted, had all his shots, and had been heart worm tested. (He was 11 months old when we adopted him, and has had very few health problems over the last 8 years other then ear infections ). I know that the fee barely paid for the vet bills let alone Jims gas. He had driven to get Gulliver from West Virginia, and then AFTER Gully had been FULLY vetted, drove to Dayton to meet us at a half way point. On our way down, we stopped in Detroit to bring down a little girl OES rescue for him. Saved him the trip as it was on the way for us, and later had the satisfaction of finding out from him that she was successfully placed in a loving home. She was a little deaf girl and I know Jim didn't skirt the truth when he placed her. My mother has also had many dealings with the Upstate NY OES rescue over the years. Her stories are much the same as mine. Well I applaud any and all true rescues, my thoughts about Flawdogs are a bit less then flattering. It seems that they are probably making a profit and I don't think this qualifys them as a true rescue. They seem to be shall we say less then honest about their dealings, and while they do save dogs from being euthenized, what about the poor folks that adopt from them and then end up with massive vet bills. Or even worse lose their pets after a short period of time do to an untreatable illness. I hope this post doesn't result in more "guest" noise, but after reading the entire thread, needed to post this. Thanks. |
| Jim also brought to me my deaf dog KIsmet.
He went to Indianna and picked her up and met me in Virginia. It was a NEOESR placement BUT, I agree Jim goes above and beyond! Thank you Jim if you are out there! We lost Kissy last month but, she had so many good years with us.. Only five years but, more than she would have had! THANK YOU!!!! |
Donner's Mom wrote: Jim also brought to me my deaf dog KIsmet.
He went to Indianna and picked her up and met me in Virginia. It was a NEOESR placement BUT, I agree Jim goes above and beyond! Thank you Jim if you are out there! We lost Kissy last month but, she had so many good years with us.. Only five years but, more than she would have had! THANK YOU!!!! First off I'm very sorry for your loss. I still miss Farley Bear and he's been gone for 11 years now. (Wait for us at the bridge big boy. We all miss you.) I've seen Jim called the grandaddy of rescue angels on another thread here. That sums it up for me. He and his wife are wonderful people. Jim if you ever drop in here THANKS! Gulliver is alive and well because of you. |
| Hello,
I was reading the comments and thought I would share a few of my own. We recently adopted a dog from a rescue in Michigan. When found the dog was sick and starving; it was suspected she had been used exclusivley for breeding. She was at the rescue for nearly two years when we came along. Her challenges were many. At first she would make no eye contact, always staying a safe distance away watching us, refusing to eat or drink and fearful of everything but very sweet and gentle. We wondered what we had gotten ourselves into. I began researching mill dogs and found the Flawdogs website. I emailed for some additional information and eventually spoke to Sally by phone; each time she gave me information that was not only helpful but dead on right! I was so touched by the damage inflicted on my adopted dog and the work done by the women at Flawdogs I made the 350+ mile trip to Missouri to meet the ladies and see the place. It is my feeling that these ladies are patient, caring and incredibly committed to the work they do. We saw lots of dogs, many damanged beyond comprehension. Yet they had found a safe place at Flawdogs. We were told that the puppies they acquire are "broker rejects for various reasons" and are "useless to the breeders". We adopted a puppy and realize that we are essentially adopting a puppy mill dog which entails a risk. It is my feeling that there is always a risk when adopting any dog, you just never know what the future holds. Our experience was well worth the trip and very touching. I am very glad for the experience. |
| Hi,
I originally posted this forEVER ago because I was going to pick up two sheepies from this rescue. I would like to ask that this thread be either locked or removed...... please? My opinion of Flawdogs hasn't changed, but I think everyone here is right, there are a LOT of guest comments and such that just seem odd and not what my original intent was for. All I can say, is my Mynie and her bro Fezzie are both doing GREAT! Mynie will be 4 sometime in April and her health has not been better! She is on a lot of vitamins that are keeping her well and I am very thankful that she is here with our family! |
| THANKS FOR NOTHING!!!!! I WOULD NEVER RECOMMEND EVEN MY OWN WORSE ENEMY GET A DOG FROM THIS PLACE
I was in my local petco the other day and saw this wonderful beagle/bosten terrier puppy. It just so happend to be from flawdogs... I adoped a puppy from them about a year ago that had cancer... Had to put that dog under and move on... Long story short, I was accussed of posting negative things about them and didn't get the dog (which they said they would give me a free one after what happened to my last one) Anyways, Sally eneded up comming over to me and telling me a devistating story of what happened to my dog (which i'll share with you if you wuold like)... she also told me that I could have the dog... About 10 mins later, another lady came over to me and told me I couldn't have the dog?.... My wife busted in tears and flawdogs basically accused me of doing something that I did not do... Now, I look like a fool in middle of petco and I don't get the dog I was holding on to for over an hour.. THANKS FOR NOTHING!!!!! I WOULD NEVER RECOMMEND EVEN MY OWN WORSE ENEMY GET A DOG FROM THIS PLACE |
| Nearly 15 years ago, my husband & I purchased a dog through what I now know was a puppymill. The puppy became sick & it was my first lesson that puppymills often sell dogs without all their vaccinations or proper care. We had some expensive vet bills from that puppy & she continued to have health issues until she died about a year later. I truly believe that if she had received proper care from the breeder, she would have lived to a normal life expectancy of her breed.
Over 3 years ago, my husband & I adopted a puppymill rescue Yorkie from Sally with Flawdogs. She was an older female that the breeder thought was too old to have more puppies. Our dog has had no health issues & over the years we have rejoiced in the first wag of her tail, her first bark; her learning to be a dog after years in a small wire cage. She was our first experience with a puppymill rescue & I can not tell folks enough about how she didn't know how to be a dog (rarely cleaned herself -- if you are in a cage on the bottom of many on top of you & their waste constantly falling on you, why bother?; didn't drink much water -- if your drinking water is rarely clean, would you want to drink it?). The little dog who had not seen much grass in her life now can’t get enough of running full speed in it. I will admit that Sally seems to have more dogs than she can handle (I wish I wasn't so selfish that I could allow my entire house to be overrun with rescue animals), but I think she just wants to rescue as many dogs as possible. A year after our first rescue, my husband & I adopted a second Yorkie – another older breeding female. She did not come from Flawdogs, but a rescue group that also works with Flawdogs (some of these groups trade dogs – perhaps one can handle sick dogs or teething puppies while another doesn’t have the time to devote to sick dogs or puppies). This group (in another town about 150 miles from Flawdogs) is also run by a woman who has allowed the dogs to take over her home completely. With this second group, I also see the devotion to animals & the attempt to rescue as many as possible. I am grateful for our little Yorkies & that we were able to rescue them & give them love, a clean bed & plenty of food & care. From the research I have done on puppymills, once they feel a dog is too old to bred, they will sometimes turn them loose to be killed by coyotes in the country or will just allow them to starve -- they are not even humanely put down. Both of our dogs have very little teeth. The reason is not known, but I have learned through my research of puppymill dogs that some will chew on the wire cages out of boredom or trying to get free to the point of damaging their teeth. Or they have poor food & so many puppies that they lose their teeth to the poor nutrition. So while Flawdogs may have some issues, I think they are doing the best job possible to prevent dogs from dying. As for health issues, both of our dogs have been healthier than the puppy we purchased many years ago from the breeder. The expense of adopting both of our dogs (the spaying, the vet care, the food they had been fed) was well worth it. We have two lovely little girls who have brought much joy to us. I shudder to think what would have happened to the both of them if it had not been for groups like Flawdogs that rescue these dogs. |
| I have purchased a Pom from Sally with Flaw Dogs about 5 years ago. Sally takes the worn out breeders from the puppy mills and sells them to the public. My Pom has a lot of mental baggage from being a puppy mill dog.
I'm sure Sally means well to find these dogs homes, but the PUPPY MILLS NEED TO BE PUT OUT OF BUSINESS!!! IS THERE A WAY THAT THIS CAN BE DONE???? |
| Flawdogs in Morse Mill Missouri is a real dog rescue. I've adopted from them and so has several others that are friends and relations. You can see their dogs under flawdogs.petfinder.com . I have seen them aiding the Humane Society of Missouri on TV in getting dogs out of terrible conditions. Their name Flawdogs comes from the idea of getting them out of trash cans, dumped along the roads and other terrible things and that was because puppy mills wanted a certain color, sex, or perfect in every way type dog. Be sure to read the description of the dog you're interested in and if need be, inquire as to what is the dog's flaw. They will tell you about it. I know they are quite busy in dog rescues so keep emailing till they have a chance to answer. |
| Just to let you all know - Sally is a fantastic person whom only has the best interest for these dogs. She cannot - but would like - to give out more information but it would result in her being closed off from saving ANY FUTURE dogs - it is a nesessary evil - but she does it for the dogs. I adopted a mill dog - a pom my favorite - and she has proved to be the biggest joy I have ever had. My Missy was crippled, deaf and had had 11 letters in 5 years - cruelty beyond words - and her toughness and because Sally saw in her more than anyone else - she is my gift. She is now 11 years old and still a lively joy to our family !!! Sally is a SAINT !!
Judy |
| I first heard of Flawdogs on the Oprah Winfrey show. We had just lost a pet and were looking to add to our canine family. The actual show was on Puppy Mills. A rescue representative was on the show and mentioned Flawdogs for Puppy Mill Rescues. I now have 3 Puppy Mill Rescues from Flawdogs. My first and second adoption were Pedigree Pomeranians and they were about 7 years old. They had only been used for breeding purposes and had lived in a cage their whole life,never felt grass under their feet. Extremely abused. I did not receive Pedigree papers but you can look at the dogs and see that they are. My last dog is a puppy,a German Spitz,similar to the Pomeranian. If you are looking for Papers then Flawdogs is not for you. All of my pets were spayed and or neutered when I received them. Because of the abuse they sustained,these dogs have issues. I was looking to give abused dogs a forever home where they can be loved an accepted and live out their days. I love the pets I have and I would adopt them again in a heartbeat.
It is my understanding the dogs that puppy mills can not sell for any reason are usually destroyed. Older dogs that are no longer able to breed are no longer profitable and puppies that have some king of defect cannot be sold as a pedigree. Flawdogs has an agreement with the Puppy Mills to give these dogs an oportunity to be adopted out. You can probably go to Oprah.com and find the show on Puppy Mills. Personally,I am very happy with my pets. I knew I was getting a dog that might have potty training issues or might have trust issues. These issues have worked them self out and its like these dogs have been with me since birth. They love us and we love them. I will always own a Flawdog. Flawdogs did not in anyway misrepresent themselves or their organzation to me in anyway. I knew exactly what I was getting. |
| Seriously...am I the only one who finds it a bit odd that Flawdogs rescues all these puppymill dogs yet the puppymills stay open? Flawdogs reaps the benefits of puppymills. They do not turn them in to get them shut down because they make so much money off of the pups. |
| to all those with concern. we just recently adopted our fourth dog from flaw dogs. yes, it may be over crowded and dirty but these dogs do not stay there long... it is only temporary until the can find a new home. as for the people who say they are making a profit... if they are in isn't much. ever dog is spayed/neutered before you can even take it home. along with that they have had multiple pet visits and multiple shots and treatments. incase you haven't done the math, that adds up. SOOO when they are charging around $200 for a dog obviously they can profit much. when it comes to the dogs having health problems... do some research. they are coming from puppy mills. this alone is enough reason for their sickness if there is a problem with the dogs help they are more than willing to help you out. the first dog we got ended up getting really sick. it was coming down to either paying over $1000 of medical bills or putting the puppy down. when we discussed this with one of the ladies she quickly asked us to bring the puppy to her home where she then nursed her completely back to health. FREE of charge. two of the other pets we have had kennel cough after we got them and sally quickly sent us medicine for them. the animals they are getting would be killed if it wasn't for them. yes sometimes they give small payments to the puppy mills but that is only to save these animals lives. these animals would not be humanely killed... they are not euthanized. they either are starved to death, shot, or have their necks broken. LASTLY......these animals are called "flawdogs" for a reason. there is some reason as to why puppy mills don't sell them. so don't expect them to be perfect dogs. i know that mine are pretty near perfect. i couldn't have asked for better dogs or nicer women to give me the chance to have these wonderful little creatures. |
| I got a male dachshund from flawdogs about two years ago and he is the best dog I have. Very funny, lovable and awesome. He can't hear very well and turns his head when he looks at you, but he is adorable and has no medical problems. When I went there at Petco on Saturday he was 9 weeks old in a cage. People would pick him up and put him back cause he was flawed. I took him home and I love him very much. He loves me just as much. Flawdogs does a very good job. They rescued him cause he was going to be killed. They gave him a home temporarily until I was found. I love Flawdogs people and will always go there for my dogs. My cousin got a dog from there also and she loves him dearly. |
| Well, as old as this post is... I am glad you enjoy your doggie...no matter where you got it from! I don't know a thing about "flaw dogs" I think all rescue groups have "flaw dogs" or they wouldn't be in rescue! I am sure you are a wonderful home but, just curious... What was the adoption process? |
brandi0807 wrote: Seriously...am I the only one who finds it a bit odd that Flawdogs rescues all these puppymill dogs yet the puppymills stay open? Flawdogs reaps the benefits of puppymills. They do not turn them in to get them shut down because they make so much money off of the pups. That's like saying "it's odd that mental health workers rescue so many addicted gamblers yet the casinos stay open" and "mental health workers reap the benefits of casinos which stay open because the mental health workers don't turn in the casinos. " The puppy mills and the casinos are both legal operations that cause societal problems. Some people choose to actually do something to try to help those directly affected. |
| Stay away from this organization. We purchased a dog from them and within one year found the dog to have a congenital heart deffect which our vet said was certainly present from birth. They take dogs from puppy mills, if they aren't one themselves, and resell them. Beware! |
Caleigh wrote: Stay away from this organization. We purchased a dog from them and within one year found the dog to have a congenital heart deffect which our vet said was certainly present from birth. They take dogs from puppy mills, if they aren't one themselves, and resell them. Beware! I don't know anything about Flawdogs other than that they take dogs that the large-scale commercial breeders do not want for whatever reason and try to find good homes for them. Wouldn't it stand to reason that there could be issues with these animals? Even the dogs sold to commercial re-sellers tend to have problems so why would anyone think the ones they rejected would be any healthier? Those of us in rescue take in animals with problems and sometimes the problems can be fixed. Other times they cannot. We always try to let people know about medical or behavioral conditions if they are known. Most of us cannot afford to do in-depth diagnostic work to check for certain conditions. The adoption fees we ask barely cover routine vet care. Many people see organizations such as Flawdogs or other rescues as a means of obtaining an inexpensive pet. Or doing a good deed by not increasing the pet population. Some times it works out just fine but there is always the dog that has a more serious issue. It seems like it's always the shelter or rescue or in this case, Flawdogs, to blame. If someone cannot financially or emotionally deal with the situation, at least buy from a responsible breeder where the chances of such problems are greatly decreased. I am sorry that your dog has a heart condition but as far as I know, Flawdogs does not hide the origins of their animals, which are less than ideal to begin with. Most of us in rescue have had our hearts broken over a dog we've taken in that is too ill to save. Even the occasional one that we've placed with a problem that has cropped up later. We had a 5 month old puppy that we placed that turned out to be severely hip dysplastic. It happens to the most reputable rescues, some times to dogs from the most reputable breeders. Nita Midwest OES Rescue, Inc. http://www.midwestoesrescue.com |
| I came across this string about Flawdogs rescue and was compelled to voice my opinion about the organization, which is doing so much to help these little "puppy mill rejects". I live in St. Louis, MO and adopted a puppy from Flawdogs in August 2010, a Miniature Dachshund we named Hank. I couldn't be more impressed with the organization and with Sally, who is the director and founder of Flawdogs. Puppy mills are an incredibly bad, sickening problem here in MO, and Flawdogs goes above and beyond to help these animals that are being neglected, mistreated, and that otherwise may not have a shot at life, which is just heartbreaking in my opinion when there are so, so many people out there who would love to give them a wonderful, loving home. Some may view Flawdogs as contributing to the problem, but you have to understand puppy mills are not going away anytime soon. Flawdogs helps animals that are already in a bad situation and brings them back to health. Back in April 2010, I drove to Mississippi to a Humane Society to adopt a puppy that unfortunately presented Parvo symptoms within 24 hours of arriving home with us. He became very ill and passed away from Parvo complications within 3 weeks even with the best medical care. It broke my heart and was very gun shy about adopting another pup and about the validity of rescue groups in general... the Humane Society acted very irresponsibly adopting out this sick puppy. I came across Flawdogs when I was ready to adopt again and was very up front with Sally about what happened and that Parvo may still be in my home, so it was of utmost importance I adopt a healthy, fully vaccinated puppy to not put the little guy at risk. I am a cautious person and did my research. Sally and her team went above and beyond to ensure the health of the puppy and even offered an additional round of vaccinations for added protection. They even kept him in their care an extra week to allow the last round of vaccinations to be fully in effect. In addition, the puppies there are given a dose of neopar when very young, which many vets don't even do! I have taken Hank back to visit Sally and the Flawdogs crew, and even months later it is very obvious he remembers her and loves her so much for what she did for him! Yes, several of the animals at Flawdogs are in poor health, but this is a RESCUE organization that intends to nurse these animals back to health or at least provide a loving, safe environment for them after being in deplorable conditions. Flawdogs is very up front about the health issues. There are no guarantees... this is an organization helping rejected and sick animals that have been mistreated in subpar breeding conditions... if you're looking for perfection, this probably isn't the ideal situation for you. If you're looking to adopt an animal who may have come from an unfortunate start in life and want to give them a loving home, this is the right place to adopt. Also, I would like to point out the adoption fees are not a "profit center" for Flawdogs. The vet expenses usually exceed the adoption fees, so I find the comments that Flawdogs is using these animals to turn a profit a bit ignorant. Vet care costs are not inexpensive! Three weeks of parvo and pneumonia veterinary care exceeded $2600 in my previous experience. By the way, I am a real person and not associated with Flawdogs in any way other than having adopted my dog there. I would adopt from Flawdogs again! Thanks for your consideration! Kelly Moore |
| A FRIEND OF MINE GOT A 10 WEEK OLD PUPPY FROM FLAWDOGS ON THURSDAY. THIS DARLING LITTLE BABY HAD BEEN SPAYED THE DAY BEFORE AND THOROUGHLY CHECKED OUT BY THE VETERINARIAN PRIOR TO THE SPAYING. ON FRIDAY SHE TOOK HER TO THE VET WHO DIAGNOSED THE PUPPY WITH "PARVO VIRUS". LUCKILY THE 10 WEEK OLD, 3 LB. PUPPY IS NOW IN THE HOSPITAL BEING TREATED, AND HOPEFULLY WILL PULL THROUGH WITH A LOT OF PRAYERS. THERE ARE WAY TOO MANY DOGS AT FLAWDOGS FOR 2 PEOPLE TO CARE FOR AT ANY TIME--OVER 70 PUPPIES & DOGS I WOULD ESTIMATE. IT WAS POURING DOWN RAIN WHEN WE WENT THERE AND NUMEROUS DOGS WERE OUTSIDE IN FENCED AREAS. IT LOOKED LIKE A DISASTER WAITING TO HAPPEN. |
| Hi there we got a puppy from them back in Feb of this year. Our puppy has been fine. I do think they have too many animals in such a small place. I want to say our adoption fee was like 275 and there were 3 dogs picked up in the hour that we were there. So they are making some pretty good money.. I do believe they care about there animals but sense it may be the money that keeps them going. They did have alot to choose from and most of them were full blooded breeds. |
Guest wrote: ... I want to say our adoption fee was like 275 and there were 3 dogs picked up in the hour that we were there. So they are making some pretty good money.. I do believe they care about there animals but sense it may be the money that keeps them going.... Huh???  It costs our rescue more than the requested $300 adoption donation in vet bills for a spay/neuter, vaccinations, testing for parasites, etc. PER DOG!  I don't know how you can say rescues "make some pretty good money". The only way we can get a few dollars ahead is through private donations and fundraisers. The few dogs that are already current on their vet care and grooming and are actually healthy help to balance things out. Many rescue dogs require treatment for some condition when they enter our program. We even do our own grooming with our personal equipment, pay to fuel our personal vehicles for transport and pay for food, treats, toys, collars, leashes etc., out of our own pockets.Many shelters and humane societies are subsidized by taxpayers funds and they can ask a lesser adoption fee. If you still think rescue is a money-making proposition you haven't taken your dog to the vet lately. Our vets even give us a discount and we still rarely come out ahead. Nita Midwest OES Rescue http://www.midwestoesrescue.com |
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