Another puppy buying question that is probably dumb
My husband asked me this, and I have no clue. My first thought was maybe female puppies might have more health issues and therefore the cost of care when they are young is higher. His first thought was to discourage backyard breeders, except bybs seem to be the ones who have more significant price gaps. He also pointed out that female puppies end up costing the buyer more all around. The cost of spaying is higher and has more risks than the cost of neutering. Even the cost of pain medication for a spay is higher than the cost of the medication for a neuter. Issues that arise from the reproductive system of females are more invasive to treat and end up costing quite a bit more than the issues that seem to arise from male reproductive systems. So why do breeders charge more for a puppy that will end up costing the owner more in the long run? |
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| I'm not sure but I think it is the breeding question. People want bitches to breed, so raise the price. You are right, it is more expensive to "fix" a girl rather than a boy. Another point, girls are harder on the lawn than the boys........who are harder on the shrubs. Personally, I want a healthy dog, so for me it doesn't matter. Each sex has it's general tendencies, but generally I adapt to whatever they are. |
| I do see that some breeders offer a refund once the spay/neuter portion of the contract has been satisfied, but they are still charging more for females. Are females more likely to be better dogs? We will definitely look for temperament and health over gender or any other attribute when it comes time to start making contact with breeders. I used to think that with enough work we could deal with most problems, but I've changed that way of thinking. I really want a pup that comes from dogs with solid temperaments. I care more about that than even breed (to a certain extent). I used to believe the yard thing, but the PH of our current yard is favorable to female dogs versus males. Our male would urinate only in certain areas, and once he passed away we had to dig out a good 8 inches of soil in his holes. Opal and Amy were much better about spreading the joy, which resulted in a healthy, bright green swath through the yard. Now its too much yard for one dog to fertilize alone. The male cat is better about not burning the yard too. The female had holes that we had to dig out once she passed away. We've lived places where the soil PH definitely supported the theory that females were harder on yards. Just not here in this part of Idaho. |
| It's the nitrogen content, not so much the pH. Urine is a heavy dose of nitrogen, like dropping a handful of fertilizer on small spot. With water it can be diluted to where there is no notice. When we lived in the city, I'd follow the dogs around with a water hose, no telling what they thought. Grass looked fine for the house to sell. |
When we were younger, had smaller yards, the male dog and no kids, we would follow him around with the hose too.  Now, well, the yard is too large, and we have a sprinkler system, and I'm lazy. We dug out the burn spots when the culprits passed on, but that was the most of it. Nitrogen! You're right. I don't know why I always mix Nitrogen and Ammonia up. The components of fertilizer, not the actual chemicals. That would probably be bad. Or not. I'm barely chemistry adept. |
More on pee than you probably want to know.......but with a puppy.......maybe you do want to know.  Urine leaves the body (either dogs urine or human) as an acid with a pH that is typically between 5 and 6. It is sterile containing no harmful bacteria, pathogens or microorganisms unless the dog has a urinary or bladder infection. 1.The principle ingredient in urine (from dogs) is uric acid. 2.Urine also contains urochrome (yellow pigment) 3.Cholesterol (lipids)(animal fats) 4.Urea 5.And other ingredients. The exact make-up of urine will vary depending on the dog's diet, health and other factors. The urine begins to change immediately upon leaving the body. The urine comes in contact with bacteria on the skin and hair along with microorganisms in the carpet  and elsewhere. The warm acid conditions offer a perfect breeding ground for bacteria which begin to flourish. Uric acid begins to be broken down into ammonia and carbon dioxide. The ammonia is highly alkaline (base).A strong concentrated alkaline can damage dyes and create a permanent color loss. Be aware that what appears to be a urine stain may actually be color loss that can not be corrected by cleaning. The urine odor can still be removed and you can sometimes correct the color loss with carpet dying techniques or patching. But cleaning will not restore color that has been removed. ((outside that ammonia is nitrogen for the lawn...in diluted quantities))As the dogs acidic urine reacts with the ammonia that is being created it forms alkaline salt crystals (white residue). When dry urine is re-moistened it gives off ammonia gas. The odor of ammonia gas is one part of the distinctive odor that helps us to identify and locate dogs urine. The other component of urine’s odor is off-gassing from bacteria that grow abundantly in warm, dark places with a never-ending food supply. The pet urine feeds the bacteria daily! (plant food  ))The complex composition of urine and the many chemicals formed as the urine is decomposed by bacteria present a challenging situation. With time, some of these complex organic compounds can actually become part of the fiber. Even if the bacteria are killed the ammonia and other chemicals still produce an odor. This is the reason that more than a sanitizing agent is necessary to neutralize odors from dogs urine. |
| Maybe we'll rip out the carpet before we get another dog... |
bekalm wrote: 8O Maybe we'll rip out the carpet before we get another dog... We did when we had rabbits that were litter trained but had the occasional accident over the edge of the litter tray. When the carpet was taken out it was hideous to see the stained underneath of the carpet and the carpet padding. Hardwood is a wonderful thing except it gets scratched up with dog toe nails. |
The price difference - is more prevalent in the BYB pups than the better breeders. The BYB are totally looking at a potential audience similar to themselves....and females are their bread and butter.  In good breeders, they are looking at the individual quality of the puppy, regardless of gender for pricing reasons. In my mind, when I see ads (for any breed) that has one price for males, and another for females - it's screaming RUN! |
| ^^ Ditto ^^ The pups in Benson's litter were priced based on quality, not gender. |
got sheep wrote: The price difference - is more prevalent in the BYB pups than the better breeders. The BYB are totally looking at a potential audience similar to themselves....and females are their bread and butter. In good breeders, they are looking at the individual quality of the puppy, regardless of gender for pricing reasons. In my mind, when I see ads (for any breed) that has one price for males, and another for females - it's screaming RUN! I agree. We price all our pups the same. Male, female, companion, show potential. You are paying for the pedigree & the expertise of the breeder, not whether it is a girl or a boy. |
So... run from that $200 price difference in the litter of Collies with no champion bloodlines, plus the $300 extra for breeding rights? Got it.  We thought we'd look at a couple of our favorite breeds for options. I think, even with keeping those options open, we're going to be looking a while. The litter above is only 2 hours away, which was appealing, until the details came out.  |
bekalm wrote: So... run from that $200 price difference in the litter of Collies with no champion bloodlines, plus the $300 extra for breeding rights? Got it. Hey, sounds legit to me!   |
| I would urge you to adopt from an OES breed rescue group instead of purchasing a puppy. Many OES become too large, too expensive, or too something else for their buyers between 6 and 12 months of age. If they are lucky, they end up with an OES breed rescue group. Many wonderful OES of all ages including young puppies and seniors over age 10 end up with OES breed rescue groups for a variety of reasons other than just behavior problems. A slightly older dog might actually fit into your lifestyle better than a needy puppy. Information on OES breed rescue by state is readily available on the Old English Sheepdog Club of America (OESCA) website and on the New England Old English Sheepdog Rescue (NEOESR) website. If you cannot find a rescue in the state where you live, contact someone in the state closest to you for advice and assistance or someone involved in rescue off the OESCA or NEOESR websites. OES breed rescues are also the best place for anyone looking for an OES. Most OES breed rescue groups have more dogs available than are listed on their websites. If you do decide you definitely want to purchase a dog from a breeder, please purchase a puppy directly from a breeder of show champions. In the best case scenario, both parents should be show champions with health certifications. Show champion breeders usually have pups deemed pet quality in each litter. Do not purchase a cute puppy from a backyard breeder or a puppy mill breeder via the internet. Only the best OES should be bred and buying from someone who is not showing champions only hurts the breed in the long and short run. Good luck with your search for a great OES! Be careful as they are addicting and one might not be enough! |
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