Nipping (ouch)
 I know it sounds funny but It actually hurts quite a bit. When he nips we give him a time out, which seems to calm him down for a while, but then he's back to nipping again.We've also tried substituting our hands/clothes, feet, etc.. for bones and rawhides but once agian, this is only a temporary solution. My wife and I don't want to keep giving him time outs every time he nips or he'll be in the bathroom 75% of the time. Is this something that he'll grow out of or is there something more we should do?
Otherwise he behaves quite well. Thanks |
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| Sounds like you're doing everthing right...I might add NO BITE and then substitute with a toy... Panda is 20 mnth and she still nips, but if you say NO BITE, in mid stream the nip turns into licks.... |
| Okay, so here's a little update. The nipping has gotten worse. He incessantly nips and by nip I mean bite. It hurts. I don't think it's an aggression issue, as it's always done in a playful manner. I just think he doesn't know his own strength. Though he does tend to get a bit aggressive during his brushing. My wife actually asked me if he still loves us tonight and that broke my heart. I know he loves us and I believe that he knows we love him. Is the majority of this just youthful exuberance?
We're going to look into hiring a trainer. Is it a better idea to go w/ a private trainer (one that comes to our home) or to take him to training classes? Socialization doesn't seem to be an issue with him. He's quite pleasant around other people as well as dogs. I just want what’s best for him and us. Money (to an extent) is not an object. Thanks. Oh yeah, is it good idea to use a muzzle for the time being during brushings? I don't want him getting knotted up. |
| roofus does NOT NIP ME EVER.
DO NOT ACCEPT THIS BEHAVIOR. I can give you the number of my trainer to call, she is wonderful, positive reinforcement, etc. I only did a puppy class with her (but she was the dog trainer for my store) and never had a need to do any further classes because of what I learned then. 614-430-3647 RainRainSmith@aol.com Her name is Sharon Smith, she specializes in aggression and has done her fair share of work with oes. What she will tell you is this... Immediately scruff and muzzle the dog with your hand, coming up from underneath the jaw. Say firmly, *no* *bite*. Do NOT release the dog from this grip until he has stopped struggling. I have Roofus to the point with his "no bark" (you use the same technique) that he immediately lays on the floor, puts his head down, and is quiet. Submission. I used to use it with the no bite when he was 2-3 months old and nipping like a pup. Now he is 13 months and he does not ever nip, snap, or otherwise ever put his teeth or mouth around me. It is very effective, but you must use it every single time it occurs. Private training may be the way to go, but I would try the above method first. They can put up quite a fight when they realize they are being corrected, you just have to hang on and be firm!! You want to curb this right away! |
Gabriel_M wrote: Okay, so here's a little update. The nipping has gotten worse. He incessantly nips and by nip I mean bite. It hurts. I don't think it's an aggression issue, as it's always done in a playful manner. I just think he doesn't know his own strength. Though he does tend to get a bit aggressive during his brushing. My wife actually asked me if he still loves us tonight and that broke my heart. I know he loves us and I believe that he knows we love him. Is the majority of this just youthful exuberance?
We're going to look into hiring a trainer. Is it a better idea to go w/ a private trainer (one that comes to our home) or to take him to training classes? Socialization doesn't seem to be an issue with him. He's quite pleasant around other people as well as dogs. I just want what’s best for him and us. Money (to an extent) is not an object. Thanks. Oh yeah, is it good idea to use a muzzle for the time being during brushings? I don't want him getting knotted up. Incidentally, I'm in Long Island, NY does anyone know of a good trainer in my neck of the woods? Preferably someone who will train in my home. |
TotallyRoofus wrote: roofus does NOT NIP ME EVER.
DO NOT ACCEPT THIS BEHAVIOR. I can give you the number of my trainer to call, she is wonderful, positive reinforcement, etc. I only did a puppy class with her (but she was the dog trainer for my store) and never had a need to do any further classes because of what I learned then. 614-430-3647 RainRainSmith@aol.com Her name is Sharon Smith, she specializes in aggression and has done her fair share of work with oes. What she will tell you is this... Immediately scruff and muzzle the dog with your hand, coming up from underneath the jaw. Say firmly, *no* *bite*. Do NOT release the dog from this grip until he has stopped struggling. I have Roofus to the point with his "no bark" (you use the same technique) that he immediately lays on the floor, puts his head down, and is quiet. Submission. I used to use it with the no bite when he was 2-3 months old and nipping like a pup. Now he is 13 months and he does not ever nip, snap, or otherwise ever put his teeth or mouth around me. It is very effective, but you must use it every single time it occurs. Private training may be the way to go, but I would try the above method first. They can put up quite a fight when they realize they are being corrected, you just have to hang on and be firm!! You want to curb this right away! Thanks for the advice. Lets say I try this and it works, isn't it still a good idea to have Frodo trained? To obey commands and such. From what I understand trained dog is a happy dog. I'll never forget how well trained my dog Lucas was. Rest his soul, he was a white German Shepherd.. a big boy.. but after training school he was so well behaved that you can tell him to sit and stay, walk out of the room for 30 minutes and he'd still be sitting there waiting for the release command. Needless to say, his life and the life of my parents improved dramatically after he was properly trained. |
| Frodo should absolutely, positively be trained! You are right, a trained dog is a happy dog. When they know what the ground rules are they are much happier. I think what was being said about trying that training method first was in case that was the only reason you were looking for a private trainer. (A frugal suggestion!)
Frodo should definitely get some obedience training just don't limit your options to private trainers only. There are some great public training schools in just about every neighborhood, that are going to be much cheaper than having a private trainer. They also offer a great socialization aspect. Your dog learns proper etiquette for dealing with other dogs. They also learn amidst distraction which can prove very helpful when dealing with your dog in a public place or anywhere that you may not have their full attention. If you're set on a private, personal trainer then by all means go for it. Just remember that one on one instruction doesn't guarentee success but it does allow you to have the instructor's full attention and you don't have to deal with any yappee little dogs running around while you're trying to learn! (Can you tell that's what happened in our last class?) |
| Hi,
OWWW you know the thing about those little puppy nips is they hurt!! No doubt about it as they have those sharp razor like teeth! With all of mine I would yelp...(didn't need to pretend) to let them know as would their littermates that their play is rough and is hurting. Firmly say NO and always place a toy immediately in their mouth. Sometimes telling them what you don't want them to do is not enough but providing alternative behavior..hands are off limits...Toys are okay. Remember pups are teething too at this stage. I'm a big fan of obedience training...have taken all sorts of classes each time I've had a dog..7 in total, different classes..some dogs had to take classes twice..some got it right away..some needed more private lessons to work on a specific behavioral issue. Schools of thought vary on what works and I would not be so bold to claim that one is better than the other as just like kids, dogs come in all sorts of personalities that what works for some may not work for another. An example would be Shaggy whom failed miserably at her 8 lessons and was deemed hopeless by the trainer. That school insisted on very strong alpha behavior on the part of the owner...didn't work with Shaggy whom had been previously abused. Next classes were taken with someone that was soft spoken but firm...different techniques all together...she blossomed!! Eventually become a therapy dog and we were placed under contract to give educational pet talks by the Humane Education society. Merlin one of my three on the other hand , needs firm dicipline and would do well in the first course I spoke of. I think just taking a course where he may socialize with other pups may be the first step..if they feel you need further training they can advise that. Mandy was right, they also need to learn doggie ettiquette just as much as people ettiquette and will have the distractions that will always be around in real life in a group class. Remember Frodo is a young pup and is like a tot whom is learning what is acceptable and you as his parent set the quidelines. Good luck! Marianne and the boys |
You've recieved lots of good advice, I think the main thing is to be consistent. When playing, and the puppy mouths you to nip don't let it be ok then, and not other times. Dancer was never much of a nipper, but Sky nipped a lot as a pup. It didn't take long at all for her to get the idea that it is not acceptable, maybe a week or so, before the nips became kisses instead. Wow, she kisses a LOT   |
| Thanks for the advice all. I found a couple of trainers in my area that train from the home. From what I gather the costs run anywhere from a few hundred to one thousand depending on the time it takes to train. Frodo seems fairly eager to learn so it shouldn't take too long I'd imagine. Besides, nothings too good for my boy.
I'm going to set up the initial consultation (trainer comes to my home and evaluates us and Frodo) and post an update. Has anyone ever heard of best paw forward? http://www.bestpawforward.com/ The owner/operator (head trainer) seems to have good credentials and I like that they prefer to work with rescue dogs. Their main goal is to make sure dogs are well behaved so they don't end up in shelters or worse. It seems as if he really cares and that's important to me. |
| I agree with the above posters, you do need to "nip" (no pun intended) this in the bud. Try to keep lots of chew toys handy and in addition to being firm about not nipping you give him an alternative to chew. Puppies have to get the chewing time in so it's best to make sure they have ample stuff to chew. Yelp and turn away from him when he nips, don't make eye contact or acknowledge him until he calms down.
Also, I do not believe in "at home trainers' (just MY opinion). When you train in the quiet of your home you have a well trained dog, at home. Training in a group insures that your dog learns to obey when there is a myriad of distractions around. Ty and I started classes a couple of weeks ago. Arriving at the first class I was pretty sure of myself, after all at home he had sit, stay and down down pat. I was mortified to discover that in the chaos of the group it was as if we were starting from scratch. Good Luck. |
| This is still, unfortunately, an area of interest to me since Max still nips, though not as often as he did when he was much younger. I use the ideas all of you have to curb his nipping such as replacing with chew toys and NO BITE while holding his mouth shut. Could Max still be teething?, he's 6 1/2 months old and seems to have all his big teeth in, but maybe some of the teeth aren't in all the way. Good luck with Frodo and I'd be interested to hear how it works with a private trainer!
Sharon |
Tasker's Mom wrote: Also, I do not believe in "at home trainers' (just MY opinion). When you train in the quiet of your home you have a well trained dog, at home. Training in a group insures that your dog learns to obey when there is a myriad of distractions around. Ty and I started classes a couple of weeks ago. Arriving at the first class I was pretty sure of myself, after all at home he had sit, stay and down down pat. I was mortified to discover that in the chaos of the group it was as if we were starting from scratch.
Darcy and I learned this the hard way... I thought Bailey was housebroken, but came to find out that he had only learned not to pee in my house.  Bailey is pretty good at home but I've been wanting to enroll him in a group class for just this reason. I have to wait until Sept because most of the group classes that I'm interested in are outdoors and take them summer off. |
| Okay, let me just clarify this “no bite” technique and make sure that I’m doing it correctly. When Frodo starts to mouth or nip I grab his muzzle and hold it shut, also grabbing the scruff in the back of his neck with my other hand while saying firmly, no bite. I did this a couple of times yesterday and he struggled quite a bit and made some whining noises. I felt so bad that I let him go after a brief moment. I don’t want to cause him any pain. Am I doing this right? |
| I've had a trainer come to my home for private sessions as well as going to group classes.
Having the trainer come to my home for private sessions was great since it allowed us to work on particular issues at home. In addition, as one of the posters mentioned above, dogs act differently at home than in public. This particular trainer also has group sessions, so we went to those classes to make sure that our dogs behaved well at home as well as in public (although we are still fine tuning some of the "public" manners). In my opinion, you have to determine what works best for you and your schedule. However, no matter what type of training you decide on, obedience training is a MUST if you want a good companion dog. Jennifer, Baxter, Cassiopia and Sharkey |
| Hi-- I'm just browsing, looking for answers about a rescued sheepdog at our rescue shelter. He is nipping and grabbing arms and legs, but not breaking skin, just playing very rough. He's fine if you don't pay attention or talk to him, but as soon as you do, he is all over you, including body slamming. Now I've heard of dominant, but he's just playing, and does not appear to know the rules for play. Is this related to the stubborn streak I am reading about on this forum? TIA |
| It could very well be, especially if he was taken away from the litter at a young age. He didn't get a chance to learn "the rules" and therefor is very rough.
I know that one of mine is very hyper and is just now starting to learn that the bodychecking, like you mentioned, is not necessary. (It probably doesn't help that my husband plays hockey! )
This is a behavior that can take a lot of work to correct. The ignoring is a good start. OES thrive on people attention and when they are ignored, they tend to get the picture pretty quickly. The next time someone is playing with him and he gets rough, have them turn their back and walk away. A dog timeout so to say. When he calms down, play can resume. Definitely no tugging, that tends to bring out the rough play with them a lot. If they are chasing someone they also tend to bodycheck more, probably the herding instinct in overdrive. By all means, contact New England Sheepdog Rescue at grannie.annie@neoesr.org for more help. They have placed an unbelieveable amount of sheepdogs and could give you more information or they may even have a foster or permanent home for the sheepdog at your shelter. Thanks for looking out for this sheepdog! |
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