training collar issues
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| May I ask why your dog is wearing an e-collar? Are there certain behaviors you are trying to curtail? Laurie and Oscar |
| I think I.F. means invisible fence if i'm not mistaken. I'm not sure why a dog would need one inside the house. |
| I'd call the company that manufactures your collar right away, and take it off your dog until you get to the bottom of what's going on. |
| I would start by taking it off the dog and putting it on your own body so you can see for yourself what is going on. If you don't know how they work you should find out before you even think about putting it back on the dog. It could well be interference from an appliance or structure or a metalic fixture. But clearly the dog has had some kind of problem with it. Can I ask the reason for the collar? I am worried that you may be exacerbating the issue to a point of no return if it is malfunctioning. We may be able to help you but I think we need more info. And to answer the question, yes we have heard of this type of thing before. I don't have time to find the discussion, but it was a topic off and on for a while a few years ago. Shellie |
| I agree with everyone. The e collar is not meant to be worn as a regular every day collar - particularly around the hosue and if it is not used properly, the collar will be harmful to your dog, his behavior and his trust in you. Only professional trained in e collar should be using them, in my opinion. Hope you take it off immediately and keep it off. |
| There are lots of sites on the web describing what can go wrong with them especially in terms of interference setting them off inappropriately. ie remote for the garage door. He shouldn't be wearing it all the time and not in the house if your using it to contain him to your yard. |
| I first realized the need for a training collar when I realized how stubborn max can be and lets face it when you have a 90 to 115 lb. animal who wants to jump up and love your guest to death its not funny at all. So after doing allot of research and spending a great deal of money on the collar we use, we began training our big boy. Rule #1.) be consistent in its use. Rule#2.) Always keep the collar well maintained and check for proper working condition before putting it on. Rule#3.) only use for brief intervals during training. It is not meant to replace their normal collar. Rule#4.) always use the beep first followed by a no, and then a second beep before resorting to shocking them, You will find that the OES is very smart and it only takes once or twice of being shocked before they realize what's going to happen after the beep. We now have a collar (its actually the same collar without the probes on it) that just beeps and haven't use the shock collar in 4 months, While max does get into trouble now and then it only takes the beep to let him know I'm displeased and his behavior is not acceptable. Im sorry folks but I am for anything that helps me live with my Max in as complete harmony as possible, and I do advocate the responsible use of these collars provided they are of good quality and are used in the right manner. Here's a very helpful hint if you buy the collar online trying to save money, its probably not a good one, seek out a good hunting store in which to purchase one, get one that covers as much area as you can afford. We got ours at Cabella's and it even has a GPS locater on it in case Max had run off (which he never did) Max has learned so much such as giving our guest their space, to heel when walking outside with no leash at all, not to bark at every sound, not to jump up on strangers, the list goes on. And the best part me and the wife can count on one hand how many times we have shocked him. Now its really funny we've discovered all we have to do in the house is pick up the tv remote and point it at him and he calms down very quickly. And to tell you the truth with all the behavior problems I have read about on this forum I'm glad we went about training Max the way we did. |
| I have achieved the same obedience results with my deaf, rambunctious, 110 lb. OES, Oscar. Without the use of a shock collar. Laurie and Oscar |
| I love how someone is promoting training collars without trying anything else. I trained my WOLF HYBRID (and also my sheepie) without the use of a shock collar. It's amazing what you can do without the use of force, just lots of treats. |
| I know there is a lot of opposition here but used correctly this isn't a torture device. Not everything is going to work for everyone or all dogs. Shellie |
I agree with you, Shellie. Some dogs require a different type of training in order to actually be able to live in society, and for some, unless extreme measures are taken, the only the other option is euthanasia.  To me, a shock collar is an extreme measure, and should only be necessary in rare circumstances, when all other options have been exhausted. Oscar was a crazed, jumping, pulling lunatic - and ginormous as well! It took a ton of effort, patience, and training, plus thousands of treats until he grew into his "big boy brain".  But I tried a bunch of different training techniques until I found the one that worked for us, and I got results from a cooperative relationship, rather than an adversarial one. In training Oscar, my goal was always to get what I wanted by making what I wanted more attractive to Oscar than what HE wanted. It was that simple. Any training failures were mine, not Oscars. However, I wasn't looking for a quick fix. Training Oscar took lots of time and energy. Lots. I don't know the poster in this situation, but I am afraid that many people jump right to the shock collar without exhausting other options. That is why I responded to this thread. We live in an instant gratification society, and I have known people who have gone to extreme training measures right out of the gate with a dog, because they want the dog to obey their every command RIGHT THIS MINUTE. I have seen dogs with nice temperaments turn into anxious neurotics because their owners started training with harsh methods. To me, a shock collar would be the training option of last resort. Laurie and Oscar |
| It CAN be harsh, but it doesn't need to be. Used in the proper way it should not hurt. The idea is not to hurt the dog, it is to get his attention so one can redirect/correct unwanted behavior. I feel like the idea is misrepresented and misunderstood by most people. The name alone is disturbing and that alone stops many people from being informed. I think it can be, in certain circumstances and under proper instruction, a good solution for some. Shellie |
Shellie wrote: I know there is a lot of opposition here but used correctly this isn't a torture device. Not everything is going to work for everyone or all dogs. Shellie Shellie... This is what concerns me... I have gone to many training classes to help me become a better handler. The more I know, the better I am at directing my dog in a positive way. I have used a pinch collar with direction from my trainer and needed it for a very short period of time. If I had a dog that I could not control with the normal methods of training, (and please, I use normal for lack of a better word.) I would first consult with my vet to make sure there are no health issues that need addressing. Then I would contact a behaviorist to help decide if there were any other issues that I was not aware of. Finally, I would take the behaviorist's recommendations and if he/she thought an E collar would be the training of choice, I would look online to see if there were any studies (pro/con) on the use of them. I would make sure that I learn how to use it correctly, by a trained professional..(not by a book or manual)~~~ AND~~~....most important... I would ask how long I would need to use it before opting for the more conventional training methods. I did find more than a few studies on the e-collar verses the postive reinforcement and the effect on both... Here are just a couple.... http://www.biomedcentral.com/1746-6148/8/93 http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/are-e ... ew-study-r This is a very personal decision. And a very sensitive one too! As for my personal choice... I find that spending time training my dog through positive reinforcement is more gratifying to ME...than any other method. I find that the bond from this type of training is stronger and more stable for both ME and my dog. AND, finally, I really believe that treating a dog with respect and developing a trust in each other, with kindness and gentleness, is the only path for me. |
| When we were looking for a Trainer in Southern NJ we attended a Demo class by an Ex Canine Cop who required the use of a shock collar. They tested each dog to find the required level to "get the dogs attention" and found that our Bailee had an extremely HIGH requirement. I had no intention of subjecting Bailee to that so we left, found a Trainer who used the Gentle Leader as a tool along with positive reinforcement and LOTS of treats. It worked wonders! |
| Training collars should be a last effort, not the first. I most certainly would consult my trainer before using one, if there was a behavior so bad I didn't know how to fix it. I find that it's much easier to train and communicate what you want with positive reinforcement. I even have my wolf hybrid beginning agility and even more surprising the weave poles come so naturally to him. |
AnInnocentEvil wrote: I love how someone is promoting training collars without trying anything else. I trained my WOLF HYBRID (and also my sheepie) without the use of a shock collar. It's amazing what you can do without the use of force, just lots of treats. And I love how people assume that for the first 3 months I didn't try everything, ya know its like this my neighbor has a Great Dane, I don't like Great Danes, I have a OES cause I love OES, in other words its different strokes for different folks, while I commend you for being able to train your dogs with just treats, Also I wasn't promoting the collar, I was simply saying if your going to use one read the owners manual. There are those who condemn the fact that I purchased a puppy instead of getting one from a rescue center , but hey its my choice not theirs. You might be a really good trainer seeing's how you accomplished so much with just treats. |
Shellie wrote: I know there is a lot of opposition here but used correctly this isn't a torture device. Not everything is going to work for everyone or all dogs. Shellie Thank you Shellie, I wasn't saying everyone should use one at all and you are right not one time did I ever hurt Max with the collar, I would never hurt my best friend. And there are those that shouldn't even consider using a training collar, much less even have a dog to train it with. |
sheepieshake wrote: Shellie wrote: I know there is a lot of opposition here but used correctly this isn't a torture device. Not everything is going to work for everyone or all dogs. Shellie Shellie... This is what concerns me... I have gone to many training classes to help me become a better handler. The more I know, the better I am at directing my dog in a positive way. I have used a pinch collar with direction from my trainer and needed it for a very short period of time. If I had a dog that I could not control with the normal methods of training, (and please, I use normal for lack of a better word.) I would first consult with my vet to make sure there are no health issues that need addressing. Then I would contact a behaviorist to help decide if there were any other issues that I was not aware of. Finally, I would take the behaviorist's recommendations and if he/she thought an E collar would be the training of choice, I would look online to see if there were any studies (pro/con) on the use of them. I would make sure that I learn how to use it correctly, by a trained professional..(not by a book or manual)~~~ AND~~~....most important... I would ask how long I would need to use it before opting for the more conventional training methods. I did find more than a few studies on the e-collar verses the postive reinforcement and the effect on both... Here are just a couple.... http://www.biomedcentral.com/1746-6148/8/93 http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/are-e ... ew-study-r This is a very personal decision. And a very sensitive one too! As for my personal choice... I find that spending time training my dog through positive reinforcement is more gratifying to ME...than any other method. I find that the bond from this type of training is stronger and more stable for both ME and my dog. AND, finally, I really believe that treating a dog with respect and developing a trust in each other, with kindness and gentleness, is the only path for me. I only had to use the collar on Max maybe a total of 5 times and never on a setting higher than 7 , 18 being the highest and as I said we don't even have the probes on it anymore, so all he hears now is the beep which is more than enough to correct any unwanted behavior. Im very sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes but lets face it what ever works to make both me and max's life together more manageable is better for both of us and the people he comes in contact with. What amazed me the most during the time we did use the collar his jumping up on people and knocking them down stopped completely, not to mention learning his boundaries out in our unfenced yard, which to this day he has never went out of it unless we encouraged it. Personally I would rather have used the collar than to lock him away in a crate or a room until our company left. |
Hank&Max wrote: AnInnocentEvil wrote: I love how someone is promoting training collars without trying anything else. I trained my WOLF HYBRID (and also my sheepie) without the use of a shock collar. It's amazing what you can do without the use of force, just lots of treats. And I love how people assume that for the first 3 months I didn't try everything, ya know its like this my neighbor has a Great Dane, I don't like Great Danes, I have a OES cause I love OES, in other words its different strokes for different folks, while I commend you for being able to train your dogs with just treats, Also I wasn't promoting the collar, I was simply saying if your going to use one read the owners manual. There are those who condemn the fact that I purchased a puppy instead of getting one from a rescue center , but hey its my choice not theirs. You might be a really good trainer seeing's how you accomplished so much with just treats. 3 months isn't a long time to train before giving up. 3 months is only long enough to try one method, barely. I also don't really care where you got your puppy. I use several different methods of training. Each with the different dogs but all is positive. No big secret for positive training. I'm just way more stubborn than any dog I've ever had. |
| Hank&Max..... I have cut and pasted SOME of your comments...I just want you to know that I do not appreciate the way you are disrespecting members of this forum. We DO have a 'be nice' rule here...hence the  emoticon....Please see my questions,comments to you in RED.... Hank&Max wrote: AnInnocentEvil wrote: I love how someone is promoting training collars without trying anything else. I trained my WOLF HYBRID (and also my sheepie) without the use of a shock collar. It's amazing what you can do without the use of force, just lots of treats. And I love how people assume that for the first 3 months I didn't try everything,,,,,soooo....you DID try various training methods???? INTERESTING>>>>> ya know its like this my neighbor has a Great Dane, I don't like Great Danes, I have a OES cause I love OES, in other words its different strokes for different folks, while I commend you for being able to train your dogs with just treats, Also I wasn't promoting the collar, I was simply saying if your going to use one read the owners manual.Owners manual's are written by the company that MAKES the shock collar...I doubt if they are going to tell you ALL the minuses to their product. There are those who condemn the fact that I purchased a puppy instead of getting one from a rescue center , but hey its my choice not theirs. I don't think I have read anything from anyone here about your personal choice to get a sheepie from a breeder ...... You might be a really good trainer seeing's how you accomplished so much with just treats. Another one from you.... Quote: That's the biggest bunch of BS Ive ever read, Ive used this type of collar from the get go ,,,,well, which one is it.....??????? Did you try different methods??? OR did you just get the shocker and put it on your dog....''''''from the GET GO""""?????? and anything that helps both you and your 80 to 120 lb dog to live in harmony is a help, but like most people they buy it put it on and that's it, they don't read the instructions, they don't maintain it and they are not consistent with its use. In other words user error. When Max started his Barking and jumping up it took about a day for him to learn it was unacceptable behavior, and believe me when I say he don't hate strangers (got no clue where you came up with that) I can only speak for my dogs that Ive used this collar on and its a god send. Another one.... Quote: Sometimes its easier to see who has the most brains the dog or the owner,,, ,I have read the responses to your posts..and never once did anyone verbally attack YOU.AND by your way of expressing yourself, we had good cause.. Im sure in this case you can figure it out. these collars are not cruel and if used right can train a dog better than any trainer Ive ever had the displeasure of meeting. ONE MORE..... Quote: Can you say moron? REALLY???????????????????? why would you leave the collar on consistently for two weeks? did you not read the instruction manual? Ok that's enough I've got a feeling that's all the questions you can handle for now. Please understand, I'm not trying to be mean here but its people like you that gives new meaning to the word stupid ,,,,,,NOT TRYING to be mean?????? Gosh...I wonder what you'd say IF you were trying ........  I am only posting your responses in an effort to get you to be more kind and choose your words more carefully.... Admit that there are opinions on this forum. YOUR opinion is no less valid than mine or any one elses here. We respect each other, and we try to understand where the other is coming from. Attacking anyone with words like BS...moron..stupid... will not get you the result you want. It only enforces that someone who decides to ZAP their dog with an electric current and then claims to be their best friend and is not willing to listen to other, more humane methods of training, has more issues than the collar shocking your dog when he is close to appliances......**hint hint...take the collar OFF ....... ((((Ron if you want to delete this....go right ahead......my only hope is that HE will see it before you do.......)))))  |
Quote: someone who decides to ZAP their dog with an electric current and then claims to be their best friend and is not willing to listen to other, more humane methods of training and this is the exact thing I was pointing out earlier - it really isn't accurate. This may be your opinion, but it still sounds mean and snippy. While I do agree that his approach was not what we generally expect here, I don't think the above was too cool either... There are some things we just have to get over, tail docking, collars, fences... the new people haven't been through this a gazillion times. Lets explain it more gently and not publicly shame the new guys - that hasn't worked so well in the past. Shellie |
Shellie wrote: Quote: someone who decides to ZAP their dog with an electric current and then claims to be their best friend and is not willing to listen to other, more humane methods of training and this is the exact thing I was pointing out earlier - it really isn't accurate. This may be your opinion, but it still sounds mean and snippy. While I do agree that his approach was not what we generally expect here, I don't think the above was too cool either... There are some things we just have to get over, tail docking, collars, fences... the new people haven't been through this a gazillion times. Lets explain it more gently and not publicly shame the new guys - that hasn't worked so well in the past. Shellie Oh...Shellie... Is that ALL you got out of my post?????? What about his words????? What about his comments????? and his discrepencies?????? I just couldn't ignore them anymore...... Have you ever tried to place a E collar on your neck or wrist??? I have...and it is not a pleasant feeling.....but that is not the point~~~ If you would reread all of this thread, you will see that, everyone has tried to give their opinions and preferences in a non accusing manner, explaining WHY they feel their methods are correct for each of THEM individually....We have not used inappropriate terms of disrespect, we have not degraded anyone...... I have held my tongue on this matter, but, I have a right to voice MY opinion and by reprinting all of this posters words, maybe he will see how personal his attacks are. NONE of us are stupid or moronic... we are not a bunch of BS..... Maybe in your opinion, my remark was NOT cool.....but...as much as you hate to admit it....an electric collar DOES zap a dog...it may not be a powerful zap...but it is a zap none the less.... AND that is HIS choice...but HE has no right to demean or dismiss our opinions.... |
Quote: Have you ever tried to place a E collar on your neck or wrist??? I have...and it is not a pleasant feeling.....but that is not the point~~~ are you kidding me? did you read my posts at all??I agree, as I said before, that I disagreed with his approach. I'm not even defending it. And since you seem to have not noticed, I HAVE put a collar on. I would never use something on my dog that I wouldn't stand myself. (But then I'm also not running to a trainer every six seconds to get advice or opinion either, like some do.) You may not know me or anything about what I post but I can tell you that I have voiced my opinion in the past about this subject. As I did in this thread as well. I am not condoning the previous posters approach, I even think it was really wrong and hateful -but that poster is also really new and isn't even here as a guest. I think explaining about this forum is fine, just let's not chase him off. I did read your whole post and I got the whole thing. I don't even disagree as far as that poster goes. But I also didh't think it fit in well with the "tea" idea... His comments were demeaning and dismissive, I agree. On the other hand I can see why he may have felt defensive - if not personally just generally for using the collar.I am not the enemy and there is no reason to be demeaning or nasty to me either. Just trying to get along. We've lost a lot of older members in the last year or two - this may be why. Shellie |
sheepieshake wrote: Hank&Max..... I have cut and pasted SOME of your comments...I just want you to know that I do not appreciate the way you are disrespecting members of this forum. We DO have a 'be nice' rule here...hence the emoticon....Please see my questions,comments to you in RED.... Hank&Max wrote: AnInnocentEvil wrote: I love how someone is promoting training collars without trying anything else. I trained my WOLF HYBRID (and also my sheepie) without the use of a shock collar. It's amazing what you can do without the use of force, just lots of treats. And I love how people assume that for the first 3 months I didn't try everything,,,,,soooo....you DID try various training methods???? INTERESTING>>>>> ya know its like this my neighbor has a Great Dane, I don't like Great Danes, I have a OES cause I love OES, in other words its different strokes for different folks, while I commend you for being able to train your dogs with just treats, Also I wasn't promoting the collar, I was simply saying if your going to use one read the owners manual.Owners manual's are written by the company that MAKES the shock collar...I doubt if they are going to tell you ALL the minuses to their product. There are those who condemn the fact that I purchased a puppy instead of getting one from a rescue center , but hey its my choice not theirs. I don't think I have read anything from anyone here about your personal choice to get a sheepie from a breeder ...... You might be a really good trainer seeing's how you accomplished so much with just treats. Another one from you.... Quote: That's the biggest bunch of BS Ive ever read, Ive used this type of collar from the get go ,,,,well, which one is it.....??????? Did you try different methods??? OR did you just get the shocker and put it on your dog....''''''from the GET GO""""?????? and anything that helps both you and your 80 to 120 lb dog to live in harmony is a help, but like most people they buy it put it on and that's it, they don't read the instructions, they don't maintain it and they are not consistent with its use. In other words user error. When Max started his Barking and jumping up it took about a day for him to learn it was unacceptable behavior, and believe me when I say he don't hate strangers (got no clue where you came up with that) I can only speak for my dogs that Ive used this collar on and its a god send. Another one.... Quote: Sometimes its easier to see who has the most brains the dog or the owner,,, ,I have read the responses to your posts..and never once did anyone verbally attack YOU.AND by your way of expressing yourself, we had good cause.. Im sure in this case you can figure it out. these collars are not cruel and if used right can train a dog better than any trainer Ive ever had the displeasure of meeting. ONE MORE..... Quote: Can you say moron? REALLY???????????????????? why would you leave the collar on consistently for two weeks? did you not read the instruction manual? Ok that's enough I've got a feeling that's all the questions you can handle for now. Please understand, I'm not trying to be mean here but its people like you that gives new meaning to the word stupid ,,,,,,NOT TRYING to be mean?????? Gosh...I wonder what you'd say IF you were trying ........ I am only posting your responses in an effort to get you to be more kind and choose your words more carefully.... Admit that there are opinions on this forum. YOUR opinion is no less valid than mine or any one elses here. We respect each other, and we try to understand where the other is coming from. Attacking anyone with words like BS...moron..stupid... will not get you the result you want. It only enforces that someone who decides to ZAP their dog with an electric current and then claims to be their best friend and is not willing to listen to other, more humane methods of training, has more issues than the collar shocking your dog when he is close to appliances......**hint hint...take the collar OFF ....... ((((Ron if you want to delete this....go right ahead......my only hope is that HE will see it before you do.......))))) Im very sorry if you find my comments rude of mean as they were only made in defense of the not so honestly mean but never the less stern comments to me. Like I said Im sorry if you found them offensive but I call morons moron's because they are, I don't put up with stupidity and I wont put up with being told how bad of a person I am simply because I use a different training method than what some disagree with, I saw no understanding of my opinion only round about attempts at making me sound horrible, maybe you should pay as much attention to the other comments made to me that you've paid to mine. This forum has been a joke from the get go , everyone even cut the breeder down I purchased Max from and most didn't even know her or the fact that I didn't go to a shelter to get one. Like I said Im sorry if you find my comments offensive or mean but hey I call them the way I see them , As far as me not being best friends or a good dog owner, well whom ever said that can go to HELL and it doesn't take much to figure out that comment was mean I made it very simple for you didn't I? |
sheepieshake wrote: Hank&Max..... I have cut and pasted SOME of your comments...I just want you to know that I do not appreciate the way you are disrespecting members of this forum. We DO have a 'be nice' rule here...hence the emoticon....Please see my questions,comments to you in RED.... Hank&Max wrote: AnInnocentEvil wrote: I love how someone is promoting training collars without trying anything else. I trained my WOLF HYBRID (and also my sheepie) without the use of a shock collar. It's amazing what you can do without the use of force, just lots of treats. And I love how people assume that for the first 3 months I didn't try everything,,,,,soooo....you DID try various training methods???? INTERESTING>>>>> ya know its like this my neighbor has a Great Dane, I don't like Great Danes, I have a OES cause I love OES, in other words its different strokes for different folks, while I commend you for being able to train your dogs with just treats, Also I wasn't promoting the collar, I was simply saying if your going to use one read the owners manual.Owners manual's are written by the company that MAKES the shock collar...I doubt if they are going to tell you ALL the minuses to their product. There are those who condemn the fact that I purchased a puppy instead of getting one from a rescue center , but hey its my choice not theirs. I don't think I have read anything from anyone here about your personal choice to get a sheepie from a breeder ...... You might be a really good trainer seeing's how you accomplished so much with just treats. Another one from you.... Quote: That's the biggest bunch of BS Ive ever read, Ive used this type of collar from the get go ,,,,well, which one is it.....??????? Did you try different methods??? OR did you just get the shocker and put it on your dog....''''''from the GET GO""""?????? and anything that helps both you and your 80 to 120 lb dog to live in harmony is a help, but like most people they buy it put it on and that's it, they don't read the instructions, they don't maintain it and they are not consistent with its use. In other words user error. When Max started his Barking and jumping up it took about a day for him to learn it was unacceptable behavior, and believe me when I say he don't hate strangers (got no clue where you came up with that) I can only speak for my dogs that Ive used this collar on and its a god send. Another one.... Quote: Sometimes its easier to see who has the most brains the dog or the owner,,, ,I have read the responses to your posts..and never once did anyone verbally attack YOU.AND by your way of expressing yourself, we had good cause.. Im sure in this case you can figure it out. these collars are not cruel and if used right can train a dog better than any trainer Ive ever had the displeasure of meeting. ONE MORE..... Quote: Can you say moron? REALLY???????????????????? why would you leave the collar on consistently for two weeks? did you not read the instruction manual? Ok that's enough I've got a feeling that's all the questions you can handle for now. Please understand, I'm not trying to be mean here but its people like you that gives new meaning to the word stupid ,,,,,,NOT TRYING to be mean?????? Gosh...I wonder what you'd say IF you were trying ........ I am only posting your responses in an effort to get you to be more kind and choose your words more carefully.... Admit that there are opinions on this forum. YOUR opinion is no less valid than mine or any one elses here. We respect each other, and we try to understand where the other is coming from. Attacking anyone with words like BS...moron..stupid... will not get you the result you want. It only enforces that someone who decides to ZAP their dog with an electric current and then claims to be their best friend and is not willing to listen to other, more humane methods of training, has more issues than the collar shocking your dog when he is close to appliances......**hint hint...take the collar OFF ....... ((((Ron if you want to delete this....go right ahead......my only hope is that HE will see it before you do.......))))) Look I don't know you from Adam, My original reason for being on this forum was to address a few health concerns I had with Max, which I might add no one gave me any help what so ever. But while on this site I noticed the horror stories that others had in the first year of ownership, Now let me make this crystal clear to anyone who reads this. Max was completely house broke(and I mean no accidents at all) at 3 months old. Max does not eat socks or underwear or anything else that he shouldn't be chewing on. Max learned complete leash behavior before he was six months old. Max learned off leash behavior a month later. While Max does bark he knows when I say inside voice exactly what I mean. He hasn't offered to jump and knock down any child since he was 5 months old. Max does not go out of the yard regardless of what distractions there may be because he learned his boundaries while he was being house broke. I do not reward Max for good behavior with a treat, I give him a treat because of what it is, a treat. I reward Max for his behavior with loud and proud praise. Max has been trained all of this with the aid of a electronic collar which we still use without the probes and only if he needs reinforcement with the beep. Now some of you may have lots of money to spend on trainers, me I choose to save that money for when Max might need a vet. Now if I still sound like a inhumane dog owner then hey so be it , your more than welcome to think what you want. But for you to be as childish as throwing a Name out there (Ron) like its suppose to make you out to be a big shot because you know somebody or to concrete your opinion, again CHILDISH! Oh one more thing I took Max to a obedience show sponsored by Purina in our area and was told by the judge he had never seen a dog behave like Max does, and yes we won the contest. He loves to catch Frisbees and how he does it I will never know , he rarely misses. Oh one more thing while Max is my first OES he's not my first rodeo. |
| Hey man, I had a dog like that too one time. He was great. I didn't have to use an electronic collar to train him, he just learned. He obeyed hand signals and even facial expressions. I could raise my eyebrow at him if I felt he was barking too much and he would stop. I could point to where I wanted him to go and he would go to that place and wait. He obeyed verbal commands, hand signals, whistles and snapping. He traveled with us everywhere and his behavior was pretty much exemplary all of the time. Electronic collars aren't the best option for every dog. If I had started that dog out on an electronic collar it would have been an unnecessary use of force, even on the lowest level, even with only beeps. He only needed to be told what to do, shown a few times what we expected and he had it. So in my mind its irresponsible to recommend the most aggressive use of force in all cases. You come across as doing that. It grates on nerves to read it and have it suggested for every case. To be honest, I'm not at all against electronic collars. They aren't my foremost choice in gaining compliance from my dogs. I have two very intelligent dogs. BUT I wasn't the person who raised them. I wasn't the person to socialize them. I wasn't the person who started, or failed to start, their very important early training. With that, I'm not willing to incorporate what I consider to be a last resort type of device to train them. For one, I want them to obey because I want them to want to please me. I don't want them to obey out of fear--especially out of fear of a device. Two, my dogs are smart enough to know when they have on collars. I want to know that they will obey me no matter what. My collie is in a full coat and collars cause terrible mats. I want her to obey me without having to wear a collar or even hear a sound. Its taken longer to train her because she had some baggage to unpack before I fill her head with what I want from her. Amy, the unfortunate sheepie, has 4 years of background to deal with. I don't think going to the last resort is the way to proceed with her. I think taking steps to find a way to get her to comply is a better option. Does this mean I won't consider an electronic collar for my dogs? No. It means that I'm willing to research options and spend the time and energy in trying to find the very best options for my individual dogs. tl;dr version: Electronic collars aren't the best option for every dog. Continuing to defend it as an option for every individual is annoying. |
bekalm wrote: Hey man, I had a dog like that too one time. He was great. I didn't have to use an electronic collar to train him, he just learned. He obeyed hand signals and even facial expressions. I could raise my eyebrow at him if I felt he was barking too much and he would stop. I could point to where I wanted him to go and he would go to that place and wait. He obeyed verbal commands, hand signals, whistles and snapping. He traveled with us everywhere and his behavior was pretty much exemplary all of the time. Electronic collars aren't the best option for every dog. If I had started that dog out on an electronic collar it would have been an unnecessary use of force, even on the lowest level, even with only beeps. He only needed to be told what to do, shown a few times what we expected and he had it. So in my mind its irresponsible to recommend the most aggressive use of force in all cases. You come across as doing that. It grates on nerves to read it and have it suggested for every case. To be honest, I'm not at all against electronic collars. They aren't my foremost choice in gaining compliance from my dogs. I have two very intelligent dogs. BUT I wasn't the person who raised them. I wasn't the person to socialize them. I wasn't the person who started, or failed to start, their very important early training. With that, I'm not willing to incorporate what I consider to be a last resort type of device to train them. For one, I want them to obey because I want them to want to please me. I don't want them to obey out of fear--especially out of fear of a device. Two, my dogs are smart enough to know when they have on collars. I want to know that they will obey me no matter what. My collie is in a full coat and collars cause terrible mats. I want her to obey me without having to wear a collar or even hear a sound. Its taken longer to train her because she had some baggage to unpack before I fill her head with what I want from her. Amy, the unfortunate sheepie, has 4 years of background to deal with. I don't think going to the last resort is the way to proceed with her. I think taking steps to find a way to get her to comply is a better option. Does this mean I won't consider an electronic collar for my dogs? No. It means that I'm willing to research options and spend the time and energy in trying to find the very best options for my individual dogs. tl;dr version: Electronic collars aren't the best option for every dog. Continuing to defend it as an option for every individual is annoying. I agree with what you say because its your choice to raise and train your animals the best way you see fit for that given animal. But for everyone to make out that Im a bad dog owner or I love my dog any less simply because I choose the use of the collar. To me this is a dead subject simply because it is a choice , there are far to many other cruelty issues perpetrated by our society on our 4 legged friends that just blow my mind as to how people could be that stupid or that mean to something who's only goal is to love you. Ive never used a choke collar on a animal because I think they are cruel, Ive seen some pinch collars I wouldn't even think about using on Max simply because they look cruel. Now I may be a exception to the rule as in the collars use, I mean its not like I put the collar on max and couldn't wait to push the button as I stated in previous post that must not have been read between my wife and I we only had to use the collar a total of maybe 5 times during the training of Max, now he is more conditioned to the beep and that's even a rarity, we pulled off the probes a long time ago so that all that is used now is the gps part (if we needed it) and the beep.. I guess maybe everyone is upset at the use of the collar due to the cruelty that could be done if the collar was used by the wrong person. I went into the use of the collar with days of research and speaking to local trainers and yes even my vet due to the fact that I didn't want to hurt Max in any way, I even went and spared no cost in getting him the collar that was the very best on the market which would take care of other concerns I had such as him getting lost or getting away from me. My point I guess is this while there are a whole lot of people who should not use the collar due to what ever reason cruelty issues or intelligent issues, the collar does work and if used responsibly it is very good training tool, now there will be people who will say they have achieved the very same thing we have with Max without the use of the collar and to those I say "AWESOME" good for you. But to even suggest I was wrong for the way I trained Max would be like me condemning you or anyone else for the way they trained their animal. The first thing I noticed when I got Max home was how stubborn he was, so to me this was the only option for me and my wife. I love my Max more so than any animal I have ever had and would never do anything to destroy his spirit or his personality in any way to me he his the perfect dog and always will be , I sometimes kick myself in the ass for waiting so long in life to get one, but Max always make that a short lived thought. Now I have apologized to everyone for my comments being a bit abusive and I can see why they feel as strongly about the use of this collar that they do, but in the right hands and used the right way it can be a very good alternative. |
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