Does anyone know anything about AIHA?
Her symptons: 1. Her nails are craking to the quick. Her pads and feet hurt and she licks them constantly. (I thought she had a fungal disease so I took her to the vet) 2. Her nose is breaking open, looks like she's been scratched, but she hasn't. Because of her nails, she hasn't been out of the house for days. Well, just to use the bathroom. (Another reason to go to the vet.) 3. She's been depressed and anxious. Either laying around "dreaming" or putting her head in our laps or begging to be petted constantly. She hasn't been feeling well. 4. Gave her a dose of Revolution, hoping to prevent mange, and she went into a shaking fit and wouldn't get up for hours. (Anyone want to buy some Revolution cheap? I have 5 vials left.). 5. She's had dermatitis before and lost all of her hair on her back leg back in 2001. Now that I think about it, she's been heat intolerant for a while. She doesn't want to leave us even to use the bathroom. She pants like crazy, even inside the house where it is airconditioned and lays around like a cat. Given the chance, she will eat dirt and does vomit and have diarrhea occasionally. These things were all explained away as problems with heat or diet. But she will play fetch and walk (2 - 3 miles/day) with me whenver I pick up a ball or ask her to get her leash? I thought she was depressed about the kids going back to school. She loves to walk with me to pick them up. I guess I am in for a rough ride. I need to go ask my vet why he didn't do a RBC or PVC before prescribing her a boat-load of anitbiotics and predisone. I thought he would, but he didn't --just said start her as soon as possible and here's my home and cell phone. What if she has that sand fly disease or its just a fungus or obstruction or ... The nearest full fledge clinic is in Houston and I have to stay and pick up the girls, take 2 deliveries, and let a repairman in at 3 PM. So I guess I will try to go tomorrow or call my vet back .... Wish me luck. |
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| Joan and I are so distressed by this news.
autoimmune hemolytic anemia (AIHA) is when the dog's immune system begins to see the dog's own tissue as foreign, and starts to mount an immune response. The Prednisone is designed to suppress the immune response and reduce inflammation. There is some very readable info at http://www.petplace.com/articles/artShow.asp?artID=2195 Another page that has been around for a while is http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/rotties1/jazz.html Also, consider asking questions over at OES-L. They've dealt with this issue before, and members of that list have gone through AIHA with their dogs. A search of the OES-L archives turned up a limited amount of info. You will have to join the OES-L to be allowed to search their archives. I am sending an email to someone to ask for permission to repost a letter about her experiences with AIHA. We will pray for you and Abbi. |
| Went to a clinic in a city over. They said they could do the blood tests and have answers for me by Saturday.
Called up the original vet at lunch. He finally got back to me as I was holding Abbi for the blood tests in the other clinic at 4PM. Said there wasn't any tests for the autoimmune disease he suspected, it was a skin involved one only. The other two vets standing there almost exploded. But they kept there cool, walk out, and then came back in to make sure I still wanted to do the tests. Which I did. Results of the RBC, PCV, and a whole bunch of others will be done. They said to give her the antibiotics and the topicals; but hold off on the predisone. They thought she may be having a reaction to all the vaccinations and meds she had been given in the past month and were going to do some checking up on it. I, of all people should have known to go to the list. But a couple of years ago Grannie Annie sort of over-stepped my boundaries a few times. I was in Argentina and she kept giving advice that I could not follow because it wasn't done that way there and there are not that many dog foods available. I didn't live in BA, it was further south and more remote. So I went to join today. I forgot about all the rigamarole it takes to join. I still might do it, because you are absolutely right about there being a lot of good, caring, and knowledgable people there. I am just a bit upset right now. I feel I should have known better or something. We have been to the vet about 4 times in the past 2 months because I knew something was wrong. I should have thought about changing her diet before this. Should have looked for a new vet when she had siezures on the Revolution and he said it was something else. So glad I went to this other vet clinic. At least they do not put you down or make you feel guilty. Both vets thought that she was in good shape, but just needed a better diet and maybe a fungacide and antibiotic. And a thyroid and blood work-up. If she has AIHA, it is a mild presentation and they feel it can wait until Saturday before being treated. Thanks Ron. I needed to tell someone, and I thought... why not? My girls would just go to pieces if something happenned to Abbi. My husband is out-of-town and hard at work.. When he got back with me, he said, "You did get a second opinion, didn't you?" Here's hoping it isn't anything I cannot fix! Let you know Saturday. Abbi wouldn't let me go for a walk by myself tonight, so I put baby booties on her feet and away we went. She is my walking buddie. The booties look a little worse for the walk, but she didn't stop to tear them off like I thought she would. It is hard to believe she may have a serious disease. I hope it is something curable, and not a maitenace type thing, with infections hanging over our head all the time. Here's to hoping the combo topical I am using on her pads and nails works as well as it has on her nose! |
| I just received the following to my request to cross-post her email:
"I think I'm a bit overwhelmed at seeing this after so many years....... Yes, you may post the note to your list [... ]" "After having I believe 8-9 OES through the years (adults) we have gone through a lot. I had forgotten about "Tiny Tot" as we called her. We lost another bitch about a year ago to liver disease, again a long story with lots of treatment...." "My best to the dog and owner involved. " "I'd appreciate the response of the individual involved" Helen wrote: This was originally posted to OES-L on May 19, 2000:
In 1988 we had a 5-year-old bitch that suddenly one morning would not eat -- never had done this before. We took her temperature as she seemed a bit lethargic and we were due 60 miles away for a dog show at St. Joseph, Mo. With no other symptoms we decided to go ahead and go as otherwise we would break the points. She was groomed, seemed okay, but just not quite herself, and when she went into the ring did not have her usual perky gait nor enthusiasm as was usual for her. It had snowed 4-5" that day and when we came home that eve and took her to the x-pen her urine was almost pure blood -- and lots of it, and each time afterwards it was the same. Of course called the vet immediately and we met him at the office. He drew blood for the Coombs' test and tentatively diagnosed AIHA. He also began her on Prednisolone -- the dosage according to her PCV (packed cell volume) -- He said to come back the next morning at 7 and again that evening at 7 for repeat blood draws to determine the PCV. The Coombs' was positive of course and she continued to have blood in her urine. She was taken for 3 weeks straight to the vet at 7 and 7 for blood draws and an injection of Pred. according to the PCV values. This went on for 3 solid weeks. It almost broke our hearts to see her when we put her in the car for the trip to the vet's office. She was so weak and when we got there would literally shake with the anticipation of what was going to happen. During these 3 weeks she was very, very weak, and although it came on quite quickly (like overnight) the weakness progressed as well as her overall well-being. I have ALL of her medical records from birth to 13 years -- she had had a urinary tract infection just prior and Dr. Davis said we should never give her the antibiotic she was on as it could have precipitated the episode of AIHA. After 3 weeks of injections, she was switched to oral Pred and was on this for a number of weeks. Her PCV went as low at 15 (normal around 30 to 40 as I remember) and we were given choices of blood transfusions or splenectomy when she was doing a little better. She rallied and neither of these were necessary, however, she was on medication (from daily to every other day and then later tapered off more) for quite sometime, lost every last hair on her body (we put a long sleeve sweat shirt on her of the heavy type) -- but within a year had grown back a lovely crisp coat -- went back into the ring and finished her championship. We felt we had been terribly lucky as she had been so close to death those early days. Over the years she had three subsequent episodes (all with the same symptoms, blood coming from the urethra, ) but was never quite as ill as the first time. She died at about 13 of another cause, but I am sure the AIHA played a part in her overall health through the years. Needless to say, this was quite an expensive illness, but we would have paid anything to regain her health. Also, when the yearly shots became due about 3 months after she was ill, the vet would not give them to her for fear of precipitating another episode of AIHA......but eventually as she gained her healh she had them. There were many drugs, etc. that we did not give for fear of starting an immune reaction in the subsequent years -- most of which I have forgotten. I might add that her mother who had always been the picture of health came down at the age of 12 with an episode of AIHA -- it was caught in time since we were so familiar with the symptoms and was never to the terribly acute stages that her daughter faced. Since so many people have asked about what it is like -- thought I would post the above -- it is heartbreaking and a day-by-day wonder if the dog will make it or not. I am so glad that she did -- rather than be lost as LaVerne was. I must say for those who do not know me, we would do and pay anything to save a dog's life -- but after this episode I had to ask myself many times if it were to ever happen again to this degree -- was I being fair to the dog to put her through so much. Only if you could have been next to her and looked into her eyes through all of this treatment would you know why I ask myself this question. Hope this answers some of your questions. Helen I will be sure to email her the URL for this thread. Good luck, agingright |
| Please feel free to e-mail her this thread. I will not be able to until I fix whatever is wrong with my Express. My e-mail looks like it has a virus, I have been getting 20-30 copies of the list all morning. It over-loaded my Express software -- it froze. So I went on the web and dumped all of the messages. I am supposed to get an updated Norton antivirus today or tomorrow.
I am so sorry to hear of Helen's trials with Little Tot. I will watch out for any of those symptoms. So far, she's losing more hair than usual, but her urine's ok. I think. I have hypothyroid and rheumatoid arthritis myself. Sometimes ... it just hurts. (It's almost like I gave her my illnesses. I know they are not infectious ... it just feels that way. ) And that is what Abbi looks like --sometimes... like it just hurts. I know what Helen meant about "Little Tot's" expressions. I had to put down one of my favorite dogs due to renal failure 9 years ago. I had no doubt about how much pain he was in, it almost broke me. It feels like I am going through it again. When we walked this morning Abbi was so happy. Even with the socks on. Thinking of buying her those socks with the pads in them. Right now we are using the old ones from the hamper. Abbi couldn't jump into the car this morning. And she stumbled on the stairs again. Her pads are all cracked up at the edges and worn hard and smooth on the bottom. I have been putting a sunburn remedy on them before we walk, the olive oil when we get back home. Put the ointment in between the toes and on the nails. They do look better. Seems they aren't getting shorter or splintering anymore. (But they are next to the skin already). I am going to put some finger nail acrylic on her nails later, when thy haven't bled for a day or so. Have to make sure there's no fungus being sealed in. I'll ask the vet tomorrow. She is still eating and wants to be with me when I go out. Her urine gets dark, but is mostly nice and yellow to clear color. I think the first vet was trying to say we had caught it early and he wanted to hit it hard with predisone now. I am still going to wait for the blood tests -- maybe. She is still active, eating, and alert. Although she looks so sad and hopeless whenever we are not doing anything. Like I feel when I have a bad morning or day or week. Sometimes she shakes. Sometimes her eyes glaze over. She has to stretch and moves very stiffly when she gets up now. And I think her hair is starting to fall out a bit--I have to brush her almost daily. The brush is full of hair, the comb is full of hair, and there's still hair all over our AC intake. Still, it could be an allergy, diet, or hypothyroidism. Maybe a skin fungus, although I don't think so. Gotta go treat my sick finches. They seemed to have picked up a respiratory infection too. The parakeet looks ok. Life goes on. And I will be talking to a vet tomorrow. The blood test will be in by then I think. |
| My deepest sympathies for what you and Abbi must be going through.
My dog Shaggy has lived with Immune Deficiency Thrombocytepenia for the last 6 years although she is currently in remission. I'm not sure how similar it is to the disease you've listed but it to causes the immune system to turn on itself. I will keep you and Abbi in my prayers and hope you find the right answers. Hugs to you all. |
| Actually all autoimmune diseases are related. Abbi probably does not have it as severely as other dogs. It can affect different systems.
So far Abbi has allergies and skin or exocrine invovlement. Her kidneys, liver,endocrine, and other systems seem to be fine. She is anemic and her white blood cell count is high, but she seems to have more of an allergic response than a full blown case of AIHA, which usually includes the dogs own red blood cells destroying their own. That was not noted in the blood test and her packed cell volume was 30, which is ok. Seems normal dogs can have them up to 55. 30 is at the lower edge of normal. If she isn't responding to the prednisone by Thursday, another set of blood test will be taken. She will be going into the vets once a month at least for the next 4 - 6 months for monitoring. Because of her anemia and her skin problems she has to go to a better diet. This is hard since she has allergies to eggs and milk products. I put her on Nutro (Natural Choice) Adult large breed, because it has the highest protein content, highest fiber, and lowest fat (it also has dried eggs in it, but I cannot afford the only brand without eggs--its $2.50/lb and doesn't look like the newest bag on the shelf). The vets want to try to raise her protein levels, even though this is sometimes not the right way to go. If this is just a dietary problem ... with allergies playing a factor, well I will be sooo happy. But 2/5 of the vets she has seen in the past week feel she would benefit from a prednisone treatment even if it is just allergies. All 5 agree a diet change is needed, but what a difference in recomendations? You hear about too many cooks spoiling the soup, but when you see it in action ... it is mind boggling. Her cracked and peeling nose and change in hair and skin pigmentaton along with the white gums are the reason I am going with the heavy prednisone treatments along with the antibiotics. I also changed out her bowls to stainless steel in case she is allergic to plastic as suggested by one vet. She likes to go for walks still, but since the prednisone doses she is more lethargic, her coat looks worse, and she drinks a lot! Hopefully she will recover and this will just be a mild episode that goes into remission with careful management. Like only one vaccination at a time, the vets say they will board her even if she doesn't have all her vaccinations from now on. They will do a blood titer test if it is needed. And no more of the topical flea repellant. In fact, flea and tick repellant may need to go down to a minimum. I am also adding flax or fish oil to her food if she looks the least bit constipated. That has worked out pretty well. Add pumkin and unsalted broth to some of her food. She loves the attention and she isn't licking her paws constantly any more. I am still oiling them up and putting booties on her before walks. My husband makes jokes, but he came home to go to the vets yesterday. Since her coat looks so bad, and she sort of shedding anyways, I am thinking of brushing her out, bathing her, and givng her a good trim---leave behind an inch or two. I am getting pretty good at trimming her, so I could get it all done in less than 3 hours. My girls are helping so it isn't like I do everything, but fo some reason Abbi will only take the medicine from me. And she has to take 5 pills in the morning and night, and two at lunch and a topical 3x a day. Then theres the gelatin capsules in her food, as well as the flax o fish oil. It does seem to take up more time than you would think. Thanks for your concern. I hope your dog stays in remission for years to come. This is miserable. |
| We are weaning her off the prednisone. But she has water dripping out of her nose, because of the prednisone --so the vet says. But she licks her nose a lot, so now it is not healing as fast as it was....
Her pads are a lot better. It will take a while to see if her nails start growing back normal. Vet says we will see a marked improvement when she is off the prednisone, sometime near Thanksgiving. I am so tempted to just quit giving it to her, but that may cause other problems. Time will tell. |
| "Does Anyone Know Anything On AIHA?"
I can tell you that AIHA can either be an individual disorder or can be combined with an autoimmune disorder. The syptoms for AIHA would be weight loss, lack of energy, shortness of breathe, your dog wouldn't be able to lift his/her head of the floor to eat, most less to move. Warning signs/symptoms of Auto Immune disorder: Muscle Weakness Depression Sudden Collapse/Shock Kidney Failure Blood Spots Lack of appetite Diarrhea Abdominal Pain Increased Thirst Increased Urine Production Lethargic Slow Heart Rate Warning Signs of AIHA: Weakness Sudden Collapse Muscle Weakness Abdominal Pain Anorexia Lack of Oxygen/Increased Heart Rate Gums become white and discolored May experience a fever Depression Spleen Enlargement Jaundice My dog had dealt with both autoimmune disorder and AIHA for the past five years. He seems to have a relapse twice a year and is placed on chemo doses of pred., which seems to help. His case is severe in the fact that both of my vets have never been able to get his meds regulated in that if I give him a steriod every two days, it isn't enough, however, if I give him one every day or every other day it's too much and he od's. It's a very complex disorder, but one that can be maintained if the pet owner watches the animal and their warning signs. I consider this disorder a learn as you go process due to the complications that my son has been through. I have written a book on both of his disorders: autoimmune/AIHA in that people who are new to both disorders will learn the warning signs and help in saving their pets. The book, also, answers all questions that a pet owner would have in concerning this disorder. It's called "My Little Miracle Man" and is listed on my website at: www.novelistajspencer.com If anyone has any questions in dealing with this disorder, please feel free to ask me as I've dealt with this for a very long time. AJ |
| I am so sorry that you are going through this....
My first oes had Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia. She was started on high doses of pred as well... I will look up all the meds she was on but, I am not sure I will remember what they all were for. She did well for over a year with lots of TLC and meds... Also with a decreased platlet count you have to be careful with bruising and do make sure only your vet draws the blood as you must be very careful. Again, I am sorry. Good Luck  |
| Wow, what ever happened to agingright. Brings back memories!!! |
| I am so sorry to hear this and wish you the best....This may sound stupid because I'm sure you've been through every test imaginable, but did you ahve her thryoid tested? The "Sadness", the "lethargic", the fussy eating...all an be low thryoid also.
Sending our positive thoughts and prayers... |
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