Help with my dominant dogs Roscoe & Leroy
OES Roscoe is 11yrs old. Roscoe is very smart and very will behaved, for the most part. The problem is I have never established myself as the "alpha dog" in the house. I now know the mistakes I have made. Roscoe has been the "baby" in the house since we got him as a puppy 11yrs ago. I have given in to "requests" for attention with every bark and look he has ever given me. He has also had major health problems, one which caused him to be totally paralized for over a month. For that time period not a minute went by that someone in our family was not at his side. Happy to say that was over 7yrs ago and he is doing fine. Roscoe has shown aggression towards me, including bad bites. This usually happens when I show excessive excitement or anger. When Roscoe gets that way, you can not control him without getting bit again. This has only happened a few times, and we (my boyfriend Brian & I) know what his triggers are. so we know what not to do. He always knows he has done something wrong and seems to feel bad. I must tell you all Roscoe is a great dog. He is extremely loving & loyal. I love him as if he were my own child (although a spoiled brat of a child). The new problem we are having is with.... Leroy. Leroy is a 3-4month old OES that we just rescued. Someone dropped him off near our house about 2weeks ago. Although we did not think we would ever get another dog while Roscoe ruled, we have fallen in love with this new playful puppy. Roscoe has not. After reading advise (esp from Marianne) it seems the aggression Roscoe is showing toward Leroy is normal. Roscoe has growled, shown teeth & snapped at Leroy. I am not sure what I should be doing in these situations. I don't yell and it seems to be over as quick as it starts, so therefore there is no need to break it up. I am actually shocked Roscoe is being as tolerant as he is. We do have another dog, Chloe. She is a shephard mix that we rescued as a puppy. She is also 11yrs old and was here before Roscoe. She is very sweet. I believe her and Leroy our at battle for 2nd place in the pack. I am sure Chloe being as submissive as she is will just give in. I have no worries about her. Will Roscoe & Leroy work it out. I find myself a nervous wreck that Roscoe will hurt the puppy. Any advice anyone has to offer would be greatly appreciated. I believe the bigger problem for me is re-establishing myself as the "alpha dog" of the house. How do I do that with an 11yr old dog that has "controlled" me for all these years? Sorry this is soo long & thanks for taking the time to read. Shay |
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| I think they are just working out their own order, and as long as Roscoe isn't to hurting the pup, I would let him continue to put the pup in it's place. As far as establishing yourself as alpha, I would definitely work on that. If you've been reading up on all the posts, you've probably seen a lot about the "Nothing In Life Is Free" approach, and I think that would be a suitable place to start with Roscoe. Make him sit for everything, pretend to eat some of his food before allowing him to have any, hand feed him for a while, all these things will add up to him realizing you provide for all his needs, and hopefully to him realizing you run the show. Don't continue to respond to everything he does to demand attention. Ignore him if he barks at you to pet him or get him something, and praise him when he sits quietly....
Welcome to the forum! I can't believe someone would just dump an oes puppy near your house, how awful for the pup, but at least it has a home now! Did you inquire to see if maybe someone lost it? Good look, and I hope everything works out.... and pics please!  |
| Hi,
Welcome to the forum! Love the names Roscoe and Leroy! Thanks for your input and while I feel I'm an experienced dog owner I don't have all the answers either. I can only give you advice in general terms as each case is so individual. In fact, just the other day I started worrying about..what if I give the wrong advice? Not giving any and not helping goes against my nature so decided to keep sharing what has been my experience to what works. Just remember however, each dog like people is different and what method works for one , may not work for another. Some kids, just like dogs do better with firm dicipline while others whom are more sensitive a need a softer approach. Sometimes you just have to give each method a try and see what works best. I treat all of my three dogs differently when it comes to dicipline, as Merlin is Alpha, Blue is submissive but doesn't do well with other dogs and Panda is a rescue whom had much abuse in his previous life so that's taken into consideration when I deal with them. Merlin, whom is dominate is by far the most challenging. Ah boy could I relate when you said you felt quilty about the things you did wrong! I have 15 year old Blue living in my home, as well as Merlin who is 22 months and Panda the rescue who is 4. You don't know how many times I regret that I didn't do it differently with Blue..so I know how one can beat up oneself with ..wish I had done this...With each dog I've gained more experience and learned from my mistakes. You'll do the same I'm sure with Roscoe , Chloe and Leroy. Forget that expression about you can't teach an old dog new tricks. I've adopted many elderly pets from the Humane Society and that's never been my experience. Saying that however, I'm a new owner and they are in a new home so it's easier for them to eventually see what I want them to do. Roscoe has been with you for a long time and your routines and methods are established. Don't make changes quickly as he may view the changes and associate them with Leroy and make him jealous and dislike the pup. My old dog Blue was never good with other dogs, except with Shaggy, my previous OES...then Merlin whom I brought into the house as a 8 wk old pup. They have developed a close relationship. After 13 months, regardless of what I do..he does not like Panda the new rescue - as both continuously vie for second postion. Just like yourself, I know what the triggers are and what has worked for me is distraction. If I see a battle about to happen I simply get up and leave the room...they follow me. I sometime have to get up from the couch several times until each are in their corners and Blue is no longer in his battle mode.( It's never Panda that starts.) I have mentioned on other post that dogs have a code of law which prevents them from ever harming a pup. This is really ingrained in them and would be extremely rare for a dog to actually attack one to harm him. It's why it's said you often see a big dog running from a little one. They look like a pup...but are not behaving as one..the big dog in confusion usually leaves the situation rather than starting a fight with it. They will dicipline it for several reasons. Pups are famous for grabbing an older dogs ears ...and bugging, they do innapropriate things and may get a bit too carried away, they are clueless in many ways to proper doggie social etiquette. The elder dog teaches them that. They will dicipline the pup and teach them they are the boss as pups are lowest in the heirachy. You're doing the right thing by not interfering as it would cause two things. It would make Roscoe jealous and would intefere with his teaching of putting this new pup in his place. What's most likey to happen in the future is Leroy will learn to be submissive to Roscoe or may eventually challenge him for the postion of Alpha as he gets older and Roscoe ages. We've seen this many times in animal shows where the Alpha animal gets beaten by a new and younger rival for the place of leadership. As humans it's hard to watch...as we think and give animals our thoughts..but with them..it's natural and part of life. That's how they think and they accept it. However as Rosco is only 4 months that's not going to happen for a while, if it happens at all When Shaggy, my Alpha dog passed away, Merlin was only 4 months old and even tho Blue had always been a submissive dog he naturally stepped into the leadership role. He was unable to retain it however, as Merlin aged. When he continued to dicipline Merlin ...one day Merlin suddenly pushed him down and held him there by his two front paws and put his face close to Blues. He never hurt Blue. However he continued to do this everytime Blue tried to show dominance over him - push him down and hold him and then simply walk away. Merlin eventually emerged as Alpha in the house. I suspect if Blue did not relenquish the role they would have fought to see who was leader. It's difficult to watch as naturally I felt a real bond with Blue and felt badly for him. I had to remind myself that I was thinking in my terms and not how the dogs viewed it. It's a natural part of life for them and they accept it. The Alpha dog will take food, toys and other things they want from the others with no resistance. Again, hard to watch as we humans feel they should share and play fair. In their minds they accept this. That doesn't mean to say I don't dole them out to all...it's just they are seperated at the time to prevent the Alpha one from stealing it from the others. Food especially is a real trigger with Alphas...so each is given a seperate place to eat a chewy bone in private. If you take them out for a walk and can't take all three at one time..take Roscoe and Chloe first, then return and take Leroy. That is, if you want to continue to establish that Roscoe is viewed as Alpha. He is the pre-existing older dog in the house and therefore will continue to dominate Leroy whom is the newest and youngest member of the pack. The more excercise they get..the less likely battles will happen. A good dog is a tired dog. When I take all three of mine for long walks or romps, either individually or together ...there's never a battle or scrimage at all that evening! The more fun they have together outside of the home..the more peace will exist between them...as home turf causes territorial issues which they don't have if in a neutral place.Blue never, ever challenges Panda on our walks...only in the home. Well hope that helps as the advice I gave you I've based on what I've learned and viewed with my three. I think you have many things going in your favor as Leroy is only 4 months and this helps a great deal. He will easily accept Roscoe as leader and Chloe too. Unless it esculates where blood is drawn..don't interfere even if little Leroy cries his lil heart out. Difficult to hear and watch but picking him up will only make him do it more and cause Roscoe to be jealous. They'll work it out. It's their code and yes like people some break that code of law..an example would be full grown man hitting a tot hard...you get the idea. In our society people would be horrified if they hear or saw it happening. Yet, we all understand the difference if an adult diciplined a child in a reasonable manner. Yup even if the little tyke cried while the parent told them no. Can you imagine if our dogs then picked up the tots and said oh you poor little thing..mean parents. Hee hee ..yet we in actuality do that if we pick up the pup when it's getting diciplined by an older dog. There are differences what is considered to be normal. We have codes in human terms as they have theirs. good luck and keep us posted. Marianne |
Take it from one who also made many mistakes, let them work it out. We got our Rosco when he was 3 months old, Luke and Beau were 1 year. Right from the start Rosco was submissive and I felt sorry for him, as Marianne has said, a human emotion. When I felt the boys were not being "fair" to Rosco I fussed over him and snuck him extra treats. BIG MISTAKE! He(and I) needed to learn his place in the pack and it wasn't as the alpha. The more I made a big deal out of everything the harder it was for Rosco. Although there were never any actual fights there were skirmishes and Rosco became a great actor, yelping when the boys came near him. Seven years later all is well and they get along great. Rosco has a healthy respect for Beau, and Luke is his idol  Time will work wonders. |
| Thanks for the advice on my situation. I do think the "nothing in life is free" approach is a good place to start with Roscoe. I also have to accept the fact that he doesn't think like a person. Today was actually a good day. The only thing Roscoe did was chow down Leroy's food when I wasn't watching. Leroy didn't seem to mind. Leroy did have a very active day today and is tired. That is a help. He isn't flying through the house like a nut getting on Roscoe's nerves!
As for who can drop off a dog, you'd be surprised. Our small town does not have a shelter or rescue. When the police get a stray dog in they call us. It has been like this for years. If someone has a stray they usually end up at our doorstop. We try to find the owner and if no one claims or comes looking for the dog within a month we try to find the dog a "good" home. We have pretty good luck. I do get attached to them, but are happy to see them go to a good home or back with their owners. Sheepdogs are my weakness and I knew when nobody claimed this puppy I couldn't just let him go to the first "good" person who wanted to adopt him. Some dogs we get are very special to us and we have to know the adopting family personally. I am not sure if Leroy is a full bred OES. He certainly looks like he is, but his tail was never docked. That's fine with me, but his tail does sort of look out of place. I am very new to our computer, but once I figure out how to get a picture on here I will be sure to show you all Roscoe, Leroy and Chloe. Thanks for being so welcoming. This is the first time I have ever been in a message forum. I sure you will hear from us again. Shay Shay |
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