Grooming and pin brushes
It's driving me a bit crazy as he wiggles when I get to the problem areas, so it s a constant battle. I groom on the floor, is a grooming table work better to stop the wiggling? I want to keep his fur long, does the fur get easier to brush at an older age? I need to order a new pin brush as the one I am using, the pins are sinking into the cushion. Would the 35 mm pins be better than the 27 mm pins. And what brand is better. The les pooches brushes I got I do not like, too hard to pull through the fur so am thinking of selling them on EBay |
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| Dexter loves to be brushed, anytime, any place, though he seems to prefer the table; he gets on it and falls alseep. Winston on the other hand refuses to be brushed anywhere other than on the grooming table; if I try to brush him when he's on the floor he turns, wiggles, bites at the brush and anyting else he can think of, he is very well behaved on the grooming table (most of the time). Monty may be the same way? |
| If your not showing les pooches brushes are sooo good, if your showing then a pin brush keeps in all the undercoat which you need when showing. The first year or so is hell because of coat transition, but lasts for longer, you just get used to it more. There is alot of les pooches, red is a matt zapper, does what it says bit too hard on the skin for regular grooms but great for getting out matts, the purple one is a medium its great alrounder, green is soft For of a finishing brush as its. Soft and too flexiable for Their coat. There is gol and silver but ive not tried them.. yet The grooming table is great for many reasons. It takes them out of their comfort zone, they know why they are there, its easier. On your back too |
| I really dislike the brushes with longer pins. They do not do well if there are tangles - they keep skipping over them, d/t the pins being long. I have several with longer pins - and good brands too - Chris Christensen, etc....and they never have been anywhere near the top of my favorite brushes list. They are the ones I keep stashed in various bags that are handy when I need a brush somewhere. My favorites are the ones close at hand in the house. And if the pins are sinking in, time to demote that brush to flicking off leaves or mulch only - not to be used for real grooming. My favorite was the Hindes pin brush - but they are no longer being made. I have one in still really good shape, and 1 more still in the wrapper - hoarding it! I also have several "demoted" ones for coarse work. My new favorite is the Bass pin brush - A-9 model. Same size as the Hindes, similar pin length, and as a bonus for dogs, the tips of the pins are ground smooth - no pokeys! (also a bonus for me, when I accidentally brush my own hands) I bought one last fall to try, and I use it as my primary brush for both Chewie and Bond...it gets a workout! I need to get another one before I wear this one out. My dogs are expected to hold still and let me work on them anywhere - floor or table. But if you are having issues, working on a table makes a huge difference. Totally worth having. In my grooming area, it stays up all the time. It's also the grandkids playroom - and makes a great craft table with a couple bar stools next to it. Makes a good worktable for doing conference calls so I can spread all my papers out, and be away from the living room, TV, etc. too!  |
| Thanks for all the tips everyone. I am firm, most of the time with Monty and he is good for 15 mins And then tests me again. I will work on no tolerance with wiggling. I think the grooming table might help so I will start looking for one, once I get on top of the mats I think it will be easier. Monty does not like the mats being teased apart so for the really bad ones I have cut through them, to open them up for combing. Unfortunately the les pooches demating brush just is too uncomfortable for Monty, it so hard to pull through matted areas. Monty is much better with a comb or rake and pin brush to get through the mat. The mats are around the arm pits of his legs, we think from the rubbing in the snow, he is always wet after his runs, my little devil  |
| Okay Dawn you would be proud of me, 40 mins with Monty grooming and no wiggling. I am being firm, and he is getting used to the fact that there is no tolerance for wiggling. I have a new pin brush with polished tips. I am Keeping on top of the mats again, but it really is 30 mins a day to keep up with the long hair. I don't do the whole body at once but a different area every day. I joke with Russ that Monty should not be allowed our of the house and wear a plastic cone all the time so he doesn't get matty. Brushing him is like teasing candy floss  Not looking forward to when I am away again for two weeks as the hubby only grooms his back well. |
| Very good! 40 minutes is very respectable! Are you using some sort of grooming spray (mentioning the cotton candy) when you brush? With the winter and lack of humidity in the air, I can't do more than a brush stroke or 2 and have a static mess happening. Some sort of grooming spray (or even plain water in a spray bottle in a pinch) is essential. It is less frustrating, and keeps it laying flat and not retangling right back up. It also keeps the hairs from breaking off. When there is a bunch of oddly broken hairs sticking out the coat, it makes more tangles...then you brush and break more hairs...more tangles...and you perpetuate and increase your frustration! So a good grooming spray is a life saver! There are many out there. I really like the Crown Royale #3 spray - is smooth without greasiness, and protects the hair. Love the smell too! |
| Oh you know I didn't think of that. It is very dry here, and this is probably why I groom so much, it seems to tangle again so quickly and there are some odd length hairs in the coat. I have coat handler conditioner, which I have watered down to spray, but does not seem to do much and smells strong so hardly ever use it, do you think the crown royal is better, as I will get that. Russ thinned out his coat on top a bit with a rake when I was away, which I am not too happy about, oh well I am not showing him but I want him to look good in his long coat. |
| I have been having issues with Leonard's fur with the snow and his underside too! But got a taste of Spring today as he found the ONLY patch of mud in my whole back yard and managed to cover himself in it and prace inside JUST as I finished cleaning the house. Have decided I would prefer SNOW to MUD. Kind of glad I brushed him out yesterday as I got rid of a few problem areas but it is a little disheartening to have spent almost 2 hours on brushing and trimming and not be able to tell today. We are hanging out in the kitchen until he dries completely and the magic white sheepie fur does it's thing. Sigh... I also have issues with brushes, I think I use four different types for getting him tangle free. Good thing he is patient, I doubt having your underarms and fingers brushed out is very fun. |
| Crown royAL is lovely. Dilute as it says soo its less if a choker when you see the price lol the stuff and ice on ice is good to, also cow ow magic detangle and Shine. Do you have a matt breaker its like tooth brush made with razor blades that you pick at the matt. Also remember as with any brush you don't slide it through the coat but you pat and pull so you hardly touch the skin with the brush but just pull on that line of hair. Billy is 6 I bathed him less than a week ago 100% matt free yet tonight his got a matted neck and legs.. I give up on the thought it gets easier |
| I love Crown Royal #3 too and use it regularly. So far it has been the best for regular brushing. There is also a spray that I use when the matts are particularly stubborn. Isle of Dogs #63 spray--it is fabulous--when you are dealing with a bad matt, just spray the matt let it sit for a little and come back to it. Typically you can just comb it right out. I call it the 'magic potion' ! |
| AGREE with you Dawn. Crowne Royale #3 grooming spray works wonders for both de-tanging mats and also to keep mats from forming quite so quickly. I find it really necessary here in the dry climate in southern California. I also AGREE with Dawn on preferring the shorter pins for my pin brushes. And the HINDES pin brush was also my favorite all time but alas I have no more stashed away they have been gone for years. But I recently purchased one of that Bass pin brush she mentioned at a Groom and Kennel show where I saw them displayed and I love mine. Where do you buy them, Dawn? I also love the Ice on Ice but use it sparingly. I much prefer the Crowne Royale as I find it leaves less residue in the coats. As a side note, I also spritz it in my own hair when it gets so dry here that the static electricity goes bonkers and I have found that it does a really good job of handing that without "weighing down" the hair. (No big mats in my tresses that I have to deal with, though - LOL) The Crowne Royale can be purchased either pre-mixed in a spray bottle or concentrated for you to mix up at the specified ratio on your own. While the concentrated version costs less, I always recommend starting with the pre-mixed bottle to try it and see if it works for you... but it probably will do a great job. Also they make a wonderful shampoo which really cleans the coat without drying it and stripping the natural oils. (And it does work on human hair, too!) Don't laugh - the dogs and I share several products both shampoos and conditioners! Linda Zimmerman & Hudson, Chloe & Kristy |
oes wrote: AGREE with you Dawn. Crowne Royale #3 grooming spray works wonders for both de-tanging mats and also to keep mats from forming quite so quickly. I find it really necessary here in the dry climate in southern California. I also AGREE with Dawn on preferring the shorter pins for my pin brushes. And the HINDES pin brush was also my favorite all time but alas I have no more stashed away they have been gone for years. But I recently purchased one of that Bass pin brush she mentioned at a Groom and Kennel show where I saw them displayed and I love mine. Where do you buy them, Dawn? I also love the Ice on Ice but use it sparingly. I much prefer the Crowne Royale as I find it leaves less residue in the coats. As a side note, I also spritz it in my own hair when it gets so dry here that the static electricity goes bonkers and I have found that it does a really good job of handing that without "weighing down" the hair. (No big mats in my tresses that I have to deal with, though - LOL) The Crowne Royale can be purchased either pre-mixed in a spray bottle or concentrated for you to mix up at the specified ratio on your own. While the concentrated version costs less, I always recommend starting with the pre-mixed bottle to try it and see if it works for you... but it probably will do a great job. Also they make a wonderful shampoo which really cleans the coat without drying it and stripping the natural oils. (And it does work on human hair, too!) Don't laugh - the dogs and I share several products both shampoos and conditioners! Linda Zimmerman & Hudson, Chloe & Kristy Crown Royale #3 - I bought mine last one from LDC/A1 Pet Supply in Waukesha, WI (right outside of Milwaukee) - on our way home from the National Specialty last fall. I looked at the bottle - 16 oz and I paid $24.95. It dilutes 15:1 though - so it lasts forever. My 1st bottle I got online somewhere, and it lasted over 5 YEARS! It's great - I use it on Bond nearly daily, and he hasn't had his grays washed since last summer. It does not build up on the coat, but leaves it smooth (not soft - smooth). The #3 formula is made for harsh coats, so that's the one you need to get for OES (just explaining - don't want people getting the right brand, but wrong formula). Bass pin brush - Linda, I got mine from a show vendor. I was going through the racks looking at brushes and liked the feel, so I bought just one to give it a trial. They do carry them at LDC too - LeAnne bought one last fall for Martha, and she loves it too. Now I need to buy a couple more at my next chance!! |
I have ordered the Crown Royale #3 today. It Probably wont help with Monty rolling around in stinky mud, it's happened two days in a row.  He had a head to toe wash today because of his antics. |
| Hi All This is a very interesting read for me at the moment as I need to order some new brushes myself and as our guy is not being shown I am interested in getting some of the les pooches brushes does anybody know where in UK or Ireland that there can be got? Regards Tommy |
tommycahir wrote: Hi All This is a very interesting read for me at the moment as I need to order some new brushes myself and as our guy is not being shown I am interested in getting some of the les pooches brushes does anybody know where in UK or Ireland that there can be got? Regards Tommy not sure why but didn't show as I was logged in for the above post :S |
tommycahir wrote: Hi All This is a very interesting read for me at the moment as I need to order some new brushes myself and as our guy is not being shown I am interested in getting some of the les pooches brushes does anybody know where in UK or Ireland that there can be got? Regards Tommy I bought the les pooches brushes off eBay but I don't like them very much as I find them hard to pull through the fur and it takes out too much undercoat. I bought the brush recommended for sheep dogs and the mat zapper. I know that there are others on the forum who love them. So it could be a personal thing. I prefer a pin brush without balls on the end. If you are still interested in getting the les pooches brushes I will sell you mine at a discounted rate. I have only used them a couple of times and they are in excellent condition, just private message me, I am in Canada but have mailed things to Ireland before. |
| I received my Royal Crown #3 spray today and it is absolutely fabulous. I was struggling with Monty's candy floss fur, this spray makes the brush go through much easier and requires less teasing of the fur on mats so I am removing less undercoat. Thanks Dawn for suggesting it and for everyone else who recommended it. |
MontyQs wrote: I received my Royal Crown #3 spray today and it is absolutely fabulous. I was struggling with Monty's candy floss fur, this spray makes the brush go through much easier and requires less teasing of the fur on mats so I am removing less undercoat. Thanks Dawn for suggesting it and for everyone else who recommended it. You are welcome! And glad that you find it helpful.  It's nice spray! I use it every day when I detangle or more often, it's before we go to class or teach class, or go to a therapy dog visit - so the boys always look and smell nice. And I'm always busy, so one that really works is important to me.  |
| So here are some pictures of Monty after grooming with the Royal Crown #3. I find I don't have to use it all over on every brushing as the fur is easier to brush through once it has been used in an area. Monty trying to look as cute as Teddy, alas no head tilt and endearing stare:  He does to a cute foot lift:  And a half smile.....  : |
| Oh, Monty looks great! Quite the handsome guy, mugging for the camera |
| This is a great thread! Ramsey is going through a coat change, and I too was looking for a better pin brush. I don't show him, but I do try to keep him in full coat, especially after the groomer freaking cut his fur down 6 months ago to ONE INCH! He has grown out since than and I am terrified to have him cut again, they now are only allowed to bath and brush, lol. I use Quicker Slicker when brushing him, it has silicone in it, so definitely don't spray it on the floor, but it really does work on helping brush out his coat. I will try out some of these other grooming sprays as well! Learning as I go! Looking online now!! Monty looks so handsome!!!!! |
| Hi all! I want to make sure I'm doing this right and also, not losing my mind, lol. Ramsey gets some tangles in his undercoat, I wouldn't call them full on matts. I brush and brush with the pin brush. If they end up being more matted, I'll brush and break up with the large comb, go back over with the pin brush. Repeat, repeat. I use a grooming spray, Isle of Dogs 63. I line brush as well from watching videos!! Just want to know if this is normal, the undercoat tangles, etc., and you all deal with this as well. I was reading this thread again and may try a bass or les pooches brush. I am determined to keep him in a long coat!! I'm just hoping the tangles are a normal thing you all deal with as well. |
| Just saw your post because I need to get a pin brush again. You are doing what I have been doing, if there is a mat I finger separate it and large toothed comb it and pin brush it. There was a phase at 2 years where it felt like nightmare of brushing through cotton candy and lots of little mats, like his fur was felting at the skin. It seems to be getting easier as Monty is getting older, he is 2 1/2 now. It could be easier because I am on top of the brushing and I that have a recently purchased grooming table so I can get the whole job done at once. It's our first OES so don't know if grooming is harder at a certain age, but stick with it as it has got easier for me and we have not had to clip him yet. I do not recommend the Les Pooches brushes. I bought two, the blue one for the OES and the de-matter. They are like a stiff slicker and find them very hard to pull them through the fur and Monty does not like them, he whines and struggles if I try to use them. I have a nice pin brush from NeedsNDesires website which is the pure paws pin brush, which has a firm pad so the pins do not push back into the pad as easily. It's a really smooth brush to use. I have had it about 8 months and some of the pins are pushing into the pad now, so it's soon time for a new brush. It is much better than the all systems pin brush where the pins pushed into the pad after a couple of months. I am interested in the bass brush as well to see if it lasts longer than the pure paws brush. Last time I looked they didn't send to Canada. Let me know what you do and bare with the brushing. If you are planning on keeping in long coat and haven't got a grooming table, I recommend it. It has taken some of the stress and struggle of getting all areas adequately brushed and easier on my body. I have a chair on either side of the table so I can sit and brush him  |
| If you can't get the Bass brushes in Canada, let me know. I can always purchase one and put it in the mail. A popular show vendor carries them (I bought my last one from him), and I saw them last weekend at the show we were at. And I'm betting he will be at the show we're going to next weekend, and for sure the one Jan 3-4-5th. |
| Hi Dawn Thanks, I might take you up on that. Have you tried the Madan brush? I saw Carl tried it on the Forum I liked the Pure Paws one but they are expensive for lasting 8 months. Tanja |
MontyQs wrote: Hi Dawn Thanks, I might take you up on that. Have you tried the Madan brush? I saw Carl tried it on the Forum I liked the Pure Paws one but they are expensive for lasting 8 months. Tanja I haven't tried the Madan brush. They are expensive and I liked others better. I had one of the Pure Paws, but it was a bit too stiff for my liking, and it really didn't last that long. The pins poked back into the pad. Just let me know here or through a PM, and I can get one of the Bass brushes at the upcoming shows. My original one is getting a bit tired, but all the pins are still good. It's just when I use the new one that I can feel a difference. |
| I ended up with the Bass! What a difference!! Sturdy, gets through his coat, fantastic on the undercoat while line brushing. I am very happy and I highly recommend. It doesn't bother him either. |
MontyQs wrote: You are doing what I have been doing, if there is a mat I finger separate it and large toothed comb it and pin brush it. There was a phase at 2 years where it felt like nightmare of brushing through cotton candy and lots of little mats, like his fur was felting at the skin. It seems to be getting easier as Monty is getting older, he is 2 1/2 now. It could be easier because I am on top of the brushing and I that have a recently purchased grooming table so I can get the whole job done at once. It's our first OES so don't know if grooming is harder at a certain age, but stick with it as it has got easier for me and we have not had to clip him yet. That is exactly how I feel brushing him sometimes. Cotton candy! Hope it gets better as he gets a little older. His coat must still be changing, at least to me. All his backside and the back of his hind legs are still the silky black. Not totally but most of it. |
| I just bought a bass brush. I had to get a new pin brush so I switched brands, since someone chewed it up in protest last time she was in coat..... I'm glad to hear bass pin brushes get a good review from other sheepie owners. |
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