Doggy Training Seminar past Weekend~Our 11 week old pup bit
We attended an all day seminar this weekend. It was quite an eye~opener for many reasons! The guy running it, who has been on Letterman, etc... had a maneuver called a half~hitch, where he would pull the dog up after wrapping the lead around their hind~quarters, hard to explain, and then control them from that vantage, until they submitted. It wasn't pleasant to watch. Every dog there was worked with except mine, as I wasn't comfortable for several reasons with that. She did however, manage to snap at a person who was just cuddling and holding her, several times, growling and finally snapping. It was a very stressful day, as the trainer said she was "unusually agressive" for 11 weeks, and he "guaranteed" that she would bite a child in the future! She snapped at our vet the day before this, when he was checking her joints. I have just ordered the book the Dog Listener, and would like some input as to if anyone else's sheepie had this sort of issue at this age. We have had her approx. two weeks, and I don't know if she justhasn't had the chance to solidify her place in the *pack*, or if it's something else....the person holding her was not a family member, and was not doing anything wrong, I was right there. Thanks! |
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| You definitely need to be training her not to bite. Tell her a firm no, and ignore her for a bit, then praise her when she greets you gently.
At 11 weeks, it's possible there is a medical problem, like worms, or something stuck in her tooth, or an injury somewhere that you can't see. Is she due for a check up soon? |
| Hi.
She just had a check up the day before the obedience seminar. The vet had JUST said to me what a great personality she had *for an oes*, when she turned around and snapped at him. 
Ive been working with her on the biting, saying NO Bite, and putting my hand around her muzzle, but this was different. I've had dogs all my life, and I've never been around a pup that acted this way. After I picked her up at the airport, the breeder told me she was a *biter*, and had a *mind of her own*. I'm certainly willing to put in whatever time and effort necessary to work with her, but my question is, does this seem to be a personality thing particular to this pup, which she would always be predisposed to, or is it something that can be reliably turned around? Anyone with this experience who has an adult dog which was like this as a pup? |
| It does sound like you're doing the right thing. The book you've ordered will help you, too. I'd get to a positive reinforcement training class as soon as possible. The one you attended over the weekend sounds questionable to me. In the meantime, don't distress!! They are nippy puppies by nature. Continue gently correcting her when she nips, replace your hand (or whatever she's latched onto) with an acceptable chew toy, and praise her when she does it right. It does get better! At 11 weeks, she's just beginning to understand and still quite impressionable.
Get some training and in the meantime - wear gloves!  |
| Lennon has a very strong personality and is possesive around things. He could have been a biter, but we used the NO technique with him and has worked wonders. He's still stubborn as a mule inside the house, and since we don't have children for him to interact with, he hasn't had a chance to change that. Outside he's an angel with the neighborhood kids, they throw him stuff to play fetch, plays chase with them and likes to be petted and interact.
A firm determination to not letting your dog become the alpha at home is required with strong minded dogs. Keep up the good work socializing your pup and soon you'll have a great pet. |
| Hi,
Another bit of advice is sometimes it's not enough just to tell the dog no bite, but providing an alternative to the behavior you find acceptable. Say no, but I'm not sure holding the muzzle is the best way as just read an article yesterday written by a animal behavioralist in which he said holding a dog by the muzzle is viewed as extemely dominant and most dogs will react negatively to that method. When Merlin was a pup and very nippy with his sharp baby teeth..I would yip like one of his littermates would, if he played too rough to let him know he hurt me..and then firmly say NO! Then always provided an alternative to acceptable behaviour ...hands were off limits...but chew toys were good. Immediately give her a chew toy as a replacement...with lots of praise...good girl!!! I'm really hoping you can overcome this with her...I really feel for you and how awful you must have felt after that class. Good luck to you and let us know how it goes. Oh last thing I thought I should mention...yes I know you had her checked at the vet the day before...but perhaps they didn't put two and two together as rereading your post it appeared that both times she snapped when it involved her hips. That could be a medical reason..as Willowsprite also suggested involved as to why she reacts that way. Last year, a family with many children visited the offleash dog park which I visted daily. The family had just adopted a dog from an Animal Shelter and he was very friendly with children and other dogs. Suddenly one day he went a bit crazy much to the astonishment of everyone...he attacked another dog after it bumped into him and then bite the dogs owner that tried to seperate the two dogs. The dogs owners took him to the vet and discovered their dog had a very bad spine and it would have been excruitating for it to be bumped in that way so he reacted out of pain. The other dog owner whom got bit was very experienced and did not make a fuss over the fact that this dog did this to him. He said himself that he shouldn't have got between two fighting dogs. Anyhow I just thought I'd mention this story as it may possibly be a reason why your girl is reacting this way...I'd cover all bases and perhaps have a hip x-ray done even at this early age. Good luck to you Marianne and the boys |
| Excellent advise Marianne!
You just stirred my memory and made me remember the only time when Lennon had been mean to our lady vet. He had not eaten in 3 days because he had a gastric problem. In our ignorance, we gave him milk when he was a puppy so he would eat his food, only to find out he was lactose intolerant  She started exploring him, and when she pressed his belly he started growling and was about to snap at her, so I second your motion. Have your dog examined by a vet to rule out any medical condition that could be causing pain.
Good Luck! |
| OK, I'm thinking it may be worthwhile to have her re~examined, I have a call in to the vet right now~
I'll keep you updated. Thanks! |
| I agree you should rule out all possible medical factors.
If no medical problem is found, it sounds as though she was an alpha in the litter. If no intervention is made during puppies rough play with littermates, it can easily turn into puppy fights. If thats the case, then she was allowed to snap at the other pups and is carrying it on into her relationship with humans. You shouldn't have much trouble teaching her that you're the alpha. Be consistant. Good luck. |
| if you finde that there is no medical problam with your pup, the problam probably stems from the fact he beleves it is his job to take cair of anny thret. however if you then become the alpha he will trust your dicison , i sugest simple things like eating infront of him befor he is fed and not letting him walk infront of u on a walk, if he sees that you are capable of controling any situation he should soon relax. furthermore try putting him in to a submissive posision and holding him there untill he submits but if u decide to do this do not back down or u could esculate the problam , good luck im sure ull work it out |
| Puppies at this age are too young to be labled agressive, and I'm afraid your trainer is way out of line, and a tad old-fashioned in his techneques. Continue with him and you will certainly have a biting dog. Your pup needs understanding and to build trust in you, and that will not happen if you practice restraining him, his mouth or his body in any way that makes him lose control. He will panic and learn to fear you. What you need is a positive traineir, not one that is suggesting any form of man-handling. Right now it sounds to me like normal puppy-biting that has not been managed very well. A dog will growl, then snap, then bite, if threatened, and that is normal canine behavior. They cannot tell you verbally how they feel. If you correct the dog when he growls or snaps, than all that will do is escalate a bite to the first of his choices of defence, and bypass the warnings. A dog will not react out of fear if it is not afraid, but at this age your pup should be learning that the world is a friendly place and that people will not harm him. You need to protect him form harm, that is your job. By hurting or frightening him you will easily embed negative and fearfull expereinces in his young memory that will last his lifetime. So slow down, get your wits together, and do not speak or handle him unless you are calm, and controlled. Back to basics, here. If he bites you yelp like a puppy and ignore him for a few seconds. Do this over and over, and if you need to walk away, do it. But your hands should be used for 2 things,as far as he is concerned. Feeding and patting. Start massaging him, and feeding him by hand. Change the whole demeanor of your relationship. I would recommend you get "Bones would Fall From the Sky" by Suzane Clothier. It is an excellant book on relatiionships with your dog. Oh, BTW, I just remembered that you are probably good to trust your instincts, as you did not seem to think that the whole manouve looked right to you, and rightly so. Good call. |
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