Is Oso representative of the breed, or just a great dog?
We have always said we wanted a lab or a lab mix (we both had labs as teenagers and my in-laws have a lab now that we take camping). BUT we are currently dog sitting the most wonderful OES named Oso in our home for 5 weeks. He's been with us for nearly two weeks now and I have completely fallen in love with this dog! I never thought I wanted a long-haired dog but now I have been doing much research on the breed to see if an OES might be for me. I don't know if I am in the right forum for my questions, but perhaps some of you could help me. The wonderful things I love about this dog are: He has not a speck of aggression, nor he does seem to be fearful at all He's very eager to please and is therefore very obedient He has a great silly energy when he plays, but is a very polite walker and is content to just hang out with me when in the house He is a cuddle monster! I love it! Our labs never loved hugs so much! He is not drooly (except when we were away - separation anxiety) He's not messy with his food and water (except what he gets in his beard of course) He is perhaps the least food-focused dog I've ever met - never tries to get in the garbage and shows very little interest in food left on the counter He is very tolerant - letting my fiancé put a Santa hat on him and then sitting for pictures for like 45 minutes, and letting 3 small children hug him around the neck all at once (actually, I think he really liked that) My fiancé and I are discussing the extra attention an OES needs - mostly on the grooming side. The "togetherness" attention is something I was already prepared for with any dog, and I happen to love the amount of togetherness this dog seems to need. In fact, since I suffer from depression (treated, but tendencies are still there at times) a Velcro dog like this is actually very good for me. We have discussed the possibility of keeping the dog in a puppy cut to make upkeep easier on us. But my main question to all of you is: Is this wonderful dog a good example of the breed (see his terrifictraits above) or is he just an unusually awesome dog? |
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| Oslo sounds like the textbook OES!!! He's carrying all the traits of the breed standard. Of the three that we've had, they all are the same. Keep in mind that much of Oso's behavior probably has been a credit to some very strong training but not out of the realm of what to expect. If you go for a puppy expect a fair number speed bumps with training as I don't know many who have had perfect puppies. But in the end, they're all worth it. If you go with a rescue, find a group wit a solid reputation and I'm sure they can help match you up with a good dog. However, you may need to be patient and wait for the 'right' one to come along. Read everything you can on this site and look for a good breeder/rescue group to find a great dog. Welcome to the site and stick around and learn! Vance |
| Sounds like the typical temperament a sheepdog should have and similar to what the breed standard asks for. They are wonderful dogs. As with all dogs, training is important to get what you want. If you really want the best chances for a reliable temperament matching what you described, I would spend a lot of time finding a good breeder who makes a priority for temperament and trust the breeder's choice of the most suitable individual in a litter for your needs. Grooming is a lot of work, 2 of my 3 sheepdogs are kept in coat (and the 3rd one is growing out right now), but shorter puppy coats are more common. My girls playing:  Groomed and beautiful:  Being lovebugs:    |
Thanks Vance! I do intend to stick around and learn, as whatever breed or mixed breed we end up with, I want to make sure it is agood fit  And I'm so glad to hear what I had hoped to hear - that Oso is a fine example of an OES. He is a delight to have in our home - even though he did destroy the blinds when we were out fr 10 hours on Christmas eve. Of course i am not happy about this, but i get it. He was dropped off unceremoniously in a new place with new people and then within the week left alone for what probably seemed like forever to him. I cannot really fault him for trying to rejoin the pack. Thank goodness it was only the blinds and not the furniture! And though he is not our dog and will not be with us forever we have been working on the separation anxiety thing. For someone who does not even own a dog I sure do watch and read a lot of Cesar Millan and other articles!Another thing I've noticed about him is that he is very gentle with his toys. They are all soft plush and he chews on them but does not damage them at all. Is this normal behavior? Im used to labs ripping them apart immediately :p And have any of yours been drooly? I'm reading that some of them can be, but Oso is not. Certainly he is less slobbery than our previous labs, so that's a good point of reference for me. We hope to find a rescue rather than go through a breeder. For one thing, I just feel better about giving a home to an animal that needs a home rather than creating the demand for a new puppy. Besides, finding a great fit should be easier that way. And we are prepared to be patient and wait for the right dog for us. I don't know if recommendations help with rescue organizations, but a Pit Bull breeder I know has told me that the minute we're ready for a dog he'd be happy to give us a recommendation (I didn't ask for one) because we're exactly the type of people he'd like to place one of his puppies with. I don't want a Pittie, but he feels we have the necessary skills and commitment for one, which makes me feel pretty awesome! |
| Thanks Baba! Your girls are beautiful! Oso's owners have certainly done a great job with him as well. He is a credit to their commitment to him |
| Sounds like a normal sheepie to me! Although they don't just need extra attention just with grooming. They are velcro dogs,want to be with you or near you at all times. Lily is sleeping on her back with her legs up in the air as I type. Lily is pretty gentle with her toys unless she is playing tug-o-war with her wolf brother. (toys don't stay whole very long with him around.) They don't really slobber but wet beard is a serious condition, as they (at least mine) likes to dry her beard off on the couch, blankets or your pants leg. lol! Lily isn't too food focused unless it comes to blueberries. Then she is the worst. I have no idea why. She freaking loves them. Also lily has allergies. She is in a puppy cut most of the time. I prefer her in full coat but when her allergies act up, her skin gets bad so for health reasons she gets shaved. When shes in a puppy cut I go up to my step moms and brush her sheepies. I do miss her hair when shes shaved. |
This is my daft one & her sisters below   |
| Thanks InnocentEvil! Ha! That's one reason we got a leather couch :p The amount of grooming required does give me pause... Can anyone give me an idea of how much time is required if we keep an OES in a puppy cut? Looks like it needs to be cut every two months or so and still brushed regularly, but not as much time put in on the brushing. And what is it with blueberries? The lab we had when i was a teenager was very good about not getting in the garbage or on the counters - EXCEPT when there were blueberry muffins! She'd steal those off the counter while cooling or get in the garbage to eat the muffin wrappers! |
| Very pretty girls, Parwaz! |
Did you say tolerant of hats?     |
| OES are a bundle of fun and all the things you have seen in the dog you are sitting. Monty Doesn't drool but he does often have a wet messy chin. Monty can be destructive if we are out for a long time, like finding things to chew on. He does it to entertain himself as he is still young but having the dog in a crate when you are out will stop this. Firm training is important as the breed is so happy go lucky and adventurous, mine in particular will go running off after anything that runs so I am instilling firm commands. Good to hear you are reading lots of articles, I read lots before getting Buster and Monty, I think it helps with their upbringing and getting a well rounded dog. Oh and a cuddle with Monty sure makes me happy. |
| In a puppy cut it is super easy. Every week the ear canals need to be plucked, every 2 weeks in between the paw pad and a sanitary clip needs to be done but as for brushing, running a brush through the fur every other day or every 3 days all over works just fine. |
Yes, i think she said tolerant of hats   |
I keep my sheepie, Tiggy, in extra long coat, the hair on her back and butt is really long. (I'm no good at scissoring  ) It takes me two hours every Sat to brush her out after which she looks like this. The rest of the time she looks more like a messy shag pile rug, like this>  Tiggy is pretty high energy and definitely needs her walk every day. She can bark a bit when she's excited. Usually when I get the lead out or when someone knocks on the front door. Otherwise she's a big love bug who wants to have cuddles  or sleep under the curtains. She doesn't drool much but her beard is long and it gets wet when she drinks or is running around a lot playing. She is a fan of drying it in my lap. A bit of a shock in summer when my legs are bare.   Tiggy was a real chewer when she was a puppy and she ate two mobile phones and five pairs of my husband's prescription glasses. It took me that long to train him to not leave them on the couch.  She hasn't chewed anything up since she was around 18 months old though.As others have mentioned if you want to maximise you chances of getting the dog you want look for a reputable breeder. If you go down the adoption route, remember that a lot of rescue dogs are in rescue because they were difficult dogs and/or were not trained. |
| Lola is our second sheepdog...our first, panda was very independant and gentle on her stuffies. Lola, 9 months old, is a little rougher on her stuffies but she is definately more clingy..and i love it.... we kept panda and now lola in puppy cut...it really is a lot easier, plus we live in a really hot climate.... Training is a constant...from what i remember about panda, it seemed like once she turned 2, she was about as perfect as perfect can get....we still have a way with lola  my independant panda...loved to be on the bed...alone..  lola the snuggle bug  puppy cut..  |
| Sounds like a true sheepie to me! We got our Benson at 8 weeks old, and she has turned out to be very much what we wanted based on the breed descriptions (and the great folks here at oes.org!) As many have already mentioned, training - with any dog - is absolutely key. If you are clear and consistent in what you ask and expect, your furbaby will learn what is acceptable and what is not. For grooming, we keep Benson in a long coat. Rather than set aside a specific grooming time each week, we just hop on the daybed at night, set her in between us, and do an easy, laid-back grooming session while we watch a DVD. She gets about 90 minutes of brushing a few times a week. If she's gotten matts (like running through the burr-patch  ) we'll concentrate on just her legs or her face, since she'll be brushed again in another couple of days.As for breeder versus rescue, no matter which route you choose, do your research. Most rescue organizations are good, especially breed-specific rescues, but there are also some folks who have all the best intentions, but really don't have the resources/training/experience they truly need. Call the references they give you, and then ask those people if they know anyone else who has had experience with that rescue/breeder. And (this is the hardest part) if you are not comfortable with the person/organization, walk away - no matter how much the dog tugs at your heartstrings. There will be another that truly is the right fit for you. Sometimes it just takes a little extra time. Good luck! And welcome to the forum!  |
Hard to sum up into words the love we have for this breed....they need us and we need them. They enter our hearts full force and will never leave, even after they are gone. They are our life...our loves........   Angus, our current  Pooh Bear, who left our lives last year |
Merkalee wrote: We hope to find a rescue rather than go through a breeder. For one thing, I just feel better about giving a home to an animal that needs a home rather than creating the demand for a new puppy. That of course, is a wonderful sentiment and I applaud it. But I thought I should point out that unlike many breeds out there, Sheepdogs are an endangered breed. So in fact, sheepdogs could actually use a bit more demand for well-bred, healthy puppies. |
| Sounds like Oso is a well bred and well trained sheepdog, and a credit to the breed!!! Do yourself a favor; if you DO decide to go with an Old English, please consider going with a reputable breeder. The cost might put you off, but you get what you pay for. My two girls have some behavioral issues and some temperament ones as well. We do tons of training to compensate, but I went with a local breeder that didn't do the proper health checks and didn't show her dogs for breed conformation-- the result being a pair of dogs that I adore, but that aren't as consistently well behaved and even tempered as Oso and other examples of our breed-- and that's putting it VERY politely. I wouldn't give my girls up for the world, but I got what I paid for. Rescue is a wonderful thing, and I work with our local OES rescue. But there's no guarantees you'll get a dog like Oso from rescue; it could happen, but you may also get a dog that will have behavioral issues including aggression, fear, separation anxiety and who knows what else. We've places many wonderful dogs through rescue; all of them needing a chance at a home and a life and to be loved. But in the 5 years I've been volunteering, very few of them met what you'd consider breed standard in terms of temperament. On a happier note; you mentioned Oso sitting for photos; this is one thing my girls are amazing at it! When the camera comes out, they sit and stay and do just about anything I ask. Because of this, I have been able to put together some amazing Christmas cards, as well as some great candid shots....   and these next few are just great examples of how "Sit & Stay" are a photographer's best friend!:    |
| Bwahahaha! InnocentEvil and MontyQs, your pics are hilarious! Especially the ones with the wigs! You guys are cruel... :p Jonsey and Baba and Darth Snuggle - any recommendations on first steps I can take to find a reputable breeder or rescue organization? I will start by asking Oso's owners (when they return) how they found him... I'm in Northern California and an Internet search did not turn up any in Northern California. Many breeders will ship, but I prefer to meet my potential dog first. I mean, geez! This dog will be a constant companion! And most rescue organizations seem to want you to be within their area so they can do a home check. Darth - what terrific pics! I love it! And Baba - I had no idea about their being an endangered breed! Knowing that does make me want to take another look at breeders... |
| You can start by contacting Pam Henry (Blu Mtn kennel) http://blumtn.home.comcast.net/~blumtn/ She's also involved in Northern Cal rescue, so you get her feedback on both options, in the event she comes across a really temperamentally sound rescue dog. Admit we don't see many of those locally. Had one who had the classic OES temperament about 5 years ago. She was fabulous - we could have placed 50 of her. The breed is somewhat rare, period. The last time I had a litter I had a couple of dozen inquiries and only three puppies, and they all stayed in the family to help ensure the future of the breed - so expect to have to wait no matter which route you take. People who have gotten a puppy from a certain breeder before (or come with a strong recommendation from a fellow breeder) usually take precedence. Perhaps not fair, but you tend to go with what you know and trust. That said, you never know what may be out there until you start talking to people and, just like anything else, every breeder is different. Pam can also let you know when there are localish shows coming up that may have an OES entry so you can meet several breeders and some of their dogs. There are more breeders in Southern Cal than north, and also OES clubs in Portland and Seattle. The separation anxiety you describe is not typical of the breed, by the way. Otherwise, Oso sounds lovely. Kristine |
| Oslo sounds lovely. My family had oes dogs when I was growing up and I always wanted another one as they are such love bugs. We recently got a puppy (Leonard) from a great breeder and he is a typical sheepdog. He loves visitors and he really loves cuddles. As long as he can hang out with his people he is happy, during the day he just sleeps. When he was a baby he liked to cuddle on our laps but now he is bigger he will cuddle with his just head in our laps. Sheepdogs are very "personable" dogs, I haven't found a person or animal that Leonard doesn't like. He 'smiles' when we come home and is generally great. I will say that as with any breed lots of consistent training is needed, as long as we are consistent Leonard is a very fast learner. Grooming is something he loves as we have practiced since he was a puppy. He will often fall asleep when I pull out the brush/blow dryer. As for breeder vs rescue that's a personal choice, we already had a rescue dog (Ru, labradoodle mix) and so we opted for a puppy from a breeder as our rescue dog's issues were enough for one household. Having a balanced puppy has actually helped our other dog a great deal and they are both fantastic. Take the advice of other posters; look carefully at breeders and rescues (no matter what breed of dog you go for) and ask around. People who have good experiences with a breeder are likely to be willing to share their experiences. A good breeder will likely ask you questions and may have a waiting list. A good breeder will likely be able to answer your questions both before and after you get a puppy and can be such a valuable resource in all areas. If you go with a rescue keep the foster home's number if possible, I know the lady who fostered Ru was a HUGE help when we first got Ru. We ended up with Ru 2 weeks before our wedding, it was a hectic time but that is when we found him and he couldn't wait (ok, and I couldn't wait). We had housemates at the time who could stay with him when we went on our honeymoon but it was a bit of a set back in establishing routines and bonding with him, he had lots of chewing/house soiling issues while we were away. It is wise to wait if you can. Both rescue dogs and dogs from a reputable breeder can turn out to be amazing family members! Good luck with your search. |
I have one of each. Simon came to us at eight weeks and we adopted Garfunkel when Simon was 1.6 and Gar was 2.6. Simon was a typical puppy growing up...destroying things, sassy, and a TP monster. Garfunkel is and will always be a work in progress  He came almost wild, no manners, not house broken, and so thin. He's not so thin now  He is house broken, not as wild(training, training, training) and has some manners. He is also a dedicated counter surfer. He loves kids(great height for face licking) and has recently(he's seven now) has learned how to chase a ball. "He" love to cuddle.Simon on the other hand is a whole nother ball of wax. As I said he came to us at 8wks from a backyard breeder(before we knew better). Typical little rascal. "He" destroys stuffies...slowly...although he loves them...to pieces...within a few days. He listens pretty well and he's my agility dog. He loves people and gets that butt going a million miles an hour when they pay attention to him. Little kids are great unless they run around and make lots of noise. Then he needs to be elsewhere. He nips little ones when they do the above and growls(pretty harmless) but does scare them. He still does some destruction...mostly TP and cardboard. He will cuddle but on his terms. Both dogs are kept pretty short. I tried longer and suck at grooming so every few months they go for grooming and cuts which "I" can handle. With the shorter cuts, I brush about once a week and they are good to go.I wouldn't trade either on for a million bucks. |
| I messaged Oso's mom last night to find out if he came from a breeder. Turns out he is a twice-returned rescue dog! |
Merkalee wrote: I messaged Oso's mom last night to find out if he came from a breeder. Turns out he is a twice-returned rescue dog! That explains the separation anxiety. My rescue dog is destructive as well. Kristine |
| Kristine - he was apparently very strong willed (something I see very little of now) and had separation anxiety in the beginning. But he is now very "calm and submissive" and is left alone from 8-6 most days with no problems. I think he is actually doing quite well for being dropped off in a new home yet again during the busy holiday season. We made some mistakes during that first week with him, but he is showing himself to be very adaptable |
| Bruuruu - great advice. My fiancé is a bit impatient for a dog, but after our experiences bringing this one into our home at a busy time I think he can see the wisdom of waiting until we have the time to dedicate to training and bonding. I'll just cross my fingers that the dog will be able to wait for us too! |
I ditto Kristine on her reply with all the infomation. If you go with a responsible, reputable brfeeder, you are not creating a demand for a new puppy. Those breeders pretty much breed when they are ready to keep something for themselves & not to fill demands for puppies. Most times they feel depressed having to call the people on their puppy list to let them know they do not have enough pups available to fill wishes.  |
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