New Puppy
I just brought home out new OES puppy 2 weeks ago - I researched breeds for months before I choose an OES. We just love him - he is doing great with house breaking and is really a good puppy. The problem I am having is when I took him into the vet on friday for his check up and shots the vet and vet tech both said I should watch this breed. They told me they are biters and often turn on their owners. They told me they were on the top list of biting dogs. They went on and on about how bad the breed is. I don't understand because everything I read never sdai anything like that. Can someone help me????  |
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| I think that someone with more experience with many different OES will better field this than me but that sounds ridiculous. I don't see that OES are any more likely than any other dog to bite. They are nippers as puppies for sure but don't let what someone else told you change your opinion in a negative way. You did your research, and with proper training and a good home, you'll raise a wonderful dog. |
| I can't speak for all OES, but I have done extensive research on the breed as well as being owned by 2 now, as well as growing up with an OES as a child. My OES are raised with my young children, and I would trust my dogs with them, more than most people.....LOL
My dogs have never shown any sign of aggression to anyone. I am not saying that the entire breed is free of aggression, that isn't the case. There will be cases, especially in rescue that may have aggression, but that is going to be cases in either the genetics of the dog, or how they have been raised and socialized. I would like to recommend the book The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell to you. I don't know if this is your vet that you have went to and felt comfortable around, but if this is only your first visit, I might think of going to a vet who is more knowledgable about the breed. The people here on the forum are wonderful, they aren't vets, but have experience to help answer questions to help you through the puppy stage on through to adult stages. We do have people that do have OES with aggression problems, but I don't believe that is the majority. Congrats on getting your puppy. Please let us know all about him. We also love pictures!! Please don't hesitate to ask questions, we have lots of members who love to help and talk about our love for this breed. Stormi and co. |
| Ask the vet for their source of information, and find a new vet, they guaranteed will not treat your dog with respect and love unless you are standing right their. In addition they will make recommendations to you based on their beliefs that will undoutbedly take you down the wrong road. |
| I would strongly suggest finding a new vet immediately.
Interview vets to see if they are familiar with the breed. I had a bad experience with a vet when we had our first OES. (If you like, you can read about it in "I need to vent" thread in general chat) The short version is that the vet advised me to put my OES pup to sleep because he was hyper. My pup was active like any other OES, he was about 16 weeks at the time. I changed vets, they loved working with a OES. Although Prince was afraid to go into the vets office, he was great with the staff and vet. He lived 12 years before having cancer. He was a very loving dog,no behavior issues-except he loved to pull on the leash. Prince was a patient of Dr Breem (second vet) for 12 years ! I found out later the first vet hated working with large breeds. From my point of view, he should have restricted his practice to small breeds. His suggestion to extinguish a healthy puppy was unprofessional and unethical. You must find the best vet who is professional and will correctly advise you. It may take a little work to find them, but it will be well worth it ! Call vet offices to interview and see if they have experience with OES. There will be a good match for you and your pup! Good luck!! |
| I agree that OES aren't more agreesive than any other breed. Each breed has a specific trait that has been bred into them and OES like to nip, but with training that can be stopped.
I've always had OESs from when I was a kid til now (my mom researched the breed and chose them because they don't shed in the same manner as most other dogs, and they don't have tails to knowck things off tables--yes, that's how my mom chose!  )
We only had trouble with one dog (out of many!) and that was because my brother, who was about 4 or 5 at the time was teasing the dog by being at the front door, calling the dog, and then slamming the door in the dog's face, over and over, until the time my brother was too slow in closing the door and the dog bit him on the nose (nothing major, but still)... So, I think that you should be fine by just raising your pup in a consistent and loving manner, and making sure that he is well trained... |
| Good luck with your newest member to your family!
I want to back up who ever suggested getting another vet! Talk to other people with large breed dogs in your area and find out what vet they use, might be a good place to start. I don't have much experience beyond being owned by a couple of sheepies, but from what I understand, all puppies are nippers, they nip their litter mates, and they see you as large littler mates and nip you too. Sheep dogs have various ways of herding, our three have different methods. Tyler is the intimidator, he just stares at you till you do what he wants, Kiera will grab your pant leg or your ankle to get you to do what she wants, and Daisy, my moms OES, will nudge you to get you to do what she wants, but nipping is a common method of herding for sheep dogs, they nip the hind quarters of the sheep to get them to move. But again, all puppies nip. Again, good luck and best wishes with your new baby! |
| I definitely agree with the previous posters - Get a new veterinarian!!!
As for the list of "top biting dogs".....what list? OESs are not listed on any insurance list of biting or aggressive dogs (one of my clients is an insurance agency and I asked about this), nor are they on any list of biting dogs that I have been able to find. When I bring my two Old English Sheepdogs to the veterinarian's office, they are treated with love and respect. Not once has the veterinarian (or their technicians) ever commented on OES's being aggressive or biters. Usually the veterinarian immediately gets down of the floor to give them an ear scratch or a belly rub. On the other hand, they take up a lot of room...I do have to admit to having to fight for my share of the bed (and pillow) at times. Good luck with your new puppy. Jennifer, Baxter, Cassiopia and Sharkey |
| I would choose another vet, as far as I'm concerned they don't have a clue. |
Panda is my first OES. The first month we had her, I never thought my hands and arms would heal from all of the nips and bites...darn those puppy teeth are sharp!! She is now 19 mnths, and will still nip when playing "her" way...but aggressive...Never!! I would also suggest a new vet. Oh, and puppy obedience class. That really helped Panda!! Enjoy your furry bundle of joy and wear gloves and long sleeves until his puppy teeth fall out!!  |
| I have to agree with the rest. Find a new vet. It doesn't sound like they are familiar with the breed or interested in caring for him. You might contact your breeder for a vet recommendation.
On our first puppy visit the vet warned me that they "can", not "will" be aggressive if not properly socialized, but it was presented along with the other pros and cons of owning a sheepdog. I think she was doing her job to make sure for Mojo's sake I knew what to expect. She never said automatically he was going to be a biter. Puppies nip and chew. They can't help it, it is who they are. What makes the difference is how you handle it. I haven't read "The Dog Listener" yet, but I'm in the middle of "The Dog Whisperer" and have found it's techniques very helpful. Good luck with your new guy and welcome to the forum. What’s his name and do you have pictures yet? |
| WOW!!!!!! DEFINATELY time to get a new VET. I have had Tasker 8 years and while he is definately protective and I wouldn't want to cross him if you were threatening me he is kind and gentle and has never bit anyone.
Welcome. |
| Congratulations on your new puppy and welcome to the forum.
I certainly agree with everyone that you should have a vet who loves your dog. Even if you know and trust this vet, please consider finding a new one for this dog. Not every vet gets along with all dogs and it is important for you and your new puppy. On the biting question, please browse old posts on this forum. I would guess that the number one issue that people have is nipping. This is true for most breeds of dogs. Nipping is how they play with their siblings and establish dominance in the pack. Nipping is usually an issue for rescues and adolescents from about 6 - 18 months (OES can have a long adolescence  ).
Since you have done the research you know that the most important trait OES look for in an upright is patience. OES DO outgrow this stage and they DO stop nipping. Your training is the key. My Henry who was a 1 year old rescue with no bite inhibition training (and doesn't learn much of anything) learned not to nip, any OES can. PATIENCE. |
| Jack was my last rescue before the group closed down. Since he was a biter I decided to keep him and work with him. It's been about 2 months now and we've come a long, long way. This young adult male had obedience training, so it wasn't for lack of training. What he needed was someone who would work with him thru his fear and dominance issues. The food bowl problems remain but he is now eating with the other dogs and lives inside with all of us. He's learning pack behavior and who is boss......ME!
My point is training is more than come, sit, stay. It's how to meld your dog into a social trusting animal, one who can be handled by anyone (vet or tech). The book mentioned earlier is a great start. Sheepdogs are not Golden Retrievers. This breed wants to lead, dominate and be in on everything! Love, respect and a gentle leadership role.......what is it GA calls it, benevolent leader where you control everything the dog does until it EARNS, not learns, it's privledges. Congrats on the new addition.......and ditto everyone else's opinion of your vet. |
| I also say find a new vet.
Not every vet is an expert on every breed. If they are only basing their reasoning on conjecture and hearsay, they are closed minded and that is the same mentality that they will use in treating your dog. If your vet says that they have heard things about this breed but asks you questions about temperament and traits, that is a whole other thing. Our vets have only ever seen a limited number of OES but are always looking to learn more. They asks us questions about the breed when they aren't sure about a trait. The one vet who became our "regular" vet even went so far as to get books about OES to make sure that she had a good knowledge base when dealing with and treating our dogs. Please know that if this is the way they treat you on your first visit, every time they see your chart they are likely to have the same disposition before they even walk into the exam room! |
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