Just dropped Bricky off at the vets.
Sometimes, when he's lying down, he whimpers just a little bit. Of course I go over to see him and his tail starts wagging and he stops. But he starts right up again after I leave. He's been doing this since the summer. I figured he's playing me. But just over the last few weeks or so, I noticed sometimes that it looks like he takes a little longer to get up from the lying position. My brother noticed it, too. Last night, I was massaging him down his center line and I squeezed a little more than normal torwards is back end and he grumbled a bit. This morning, while he was lying down, I manipulated his left leg a little bit and he whimpered just a bit as I pivoted his left rear leg up & out (like a bird's wing). So I brought him to the vet this morning. She manipulated his legs in a couple different ways and he whimpered a bit when she extended them straight out behind him. Her initial thought is a bit of arthritis. I wanted to confirm it, so I left him there for some x-rays. If it is arthritis, I guess there's a couple of treatment options. One would be to put him on supplements. Another would be to put him on rimidyl or deramax. I don't like the second 2 options because it would require constant checking of his liver & kidneys. Hopefully I'll be able to get him after 2PM EST. So weird without him in the house. My question is; is arthritis common in a dog his age? He's only 8 2/3 years old. I would have thought it wouldn't have set in till 10 or 11 years. To see him run and play and romp and jump and run up & down the stairs, you'd think he was a 2 or 3 year old dog. If it is arthritis, how many years before it becomes debilitating? PS: can you guys recommend good supplements? Cuz that's the direction I want to go in first (if it is arthritis). |
|
|
| It does sound like arthritis, or some sort of related type thing. I have my senior Basset Harley on pain meds. He came to me at 11.5 yrs, and at about 13 he started to yelp when he laid down, and he would jump right up as if it really jolted him.  He has a frozen shoulder/elbow joint. It makes him walk like a bulldog, and he swings that whole (short, stubby) leg when he walks. He has been on Deramaxx, and he does wonderful on it. He needs a blood profile done yearly - and as a senior we'd be doing it anyway. He now is on a different med, as Deramaxx is on indefinite backorder from the company. So he's on a similar class med (Vetprofen), but it doesn't work as well. But it's OK.And when I picked up this month's meds, the vet techs said they are hearing that from several clients who had to switch. I had Simon (my old basset who passed away) on supplements for years - pretty much after I got him at age 6 - and then he did eventually need pain meds, but it was for his cardiac disease, not joints. He was on Metacam. It had yearly blood draws too. The drugs never changed it. He had bad lab values, but they were from his cardiac disease and near fatal kidney damage he had from before we started pain meds. That is why it's so valuable to have baseline labs! I've had Chewie (and now Bond) on them pretty much all their lives - Chewie at about a year, Bond on and off since 6 months, but now at a year daily. I like different brands, but they have glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM, and also often hyaluronic acid as ingredients. They are just prophylactic use though - not to treat a known diagnosis. I'm hoping to avoid big trouble down the road. With our active lifestyle, I am hoping this is going to pay off. I'll be waiting to hear what they say about Brick....fingers crossed! |
| Fingers and paws crossed for Brick. |
I have Oliver on Previcox. My Vet likes this medication because it has no side effects. Within a couple hours, the difference is noticable. I give him 1/2 a tablet in the morning. If he appears worse, I will give a whole one in the morning or boost 1/2 again in the evening. It makes a very happy comfortable boy.  Wish I could take it.  I figure Oliver is 10. I rescued him so he could be older. We also take Osteo Biflex triple strength. He is slower on stairs and will now wait for me so I can get behind him JUST IN CASE he starts to fall. (this happened aprx 2weeks ago and I managed to get there before he slid more tha a few steps) I will do anything possible for my boy!! Must be Love.   SURE HOPE BRICKY GETS NOT BAD TREATABLE RESULT!  |
Yeah I think hip or spinal arthritis. MO's had her's since age 6 (in her paw) and starting in her hips about 9. She's been on Rimadyl for 7 years almost 8  Her blood work comes out fine. Harry has been on it about 5 year but he does have a bad rear transmission. For sure glucosamine, fish oil, etc and I'd consider an NSAID like dermamax or Rimadyl. |
Poor Bricky!  We had both of our guys on glucosamine for years. Nina, our Beagle/Brittany mix, had luxating patellae in both legs, so she developed arthritis fairly young. Max, our Shepherd/Dobie mix, started having problems around 9 or 10 years old, but he was also smaller than Brick. No side effects for either one of them after years of dosing. If you do go with glucosamine, just keep an eye on his food. Some of the senior and large dog foods include glucosamine, so you'll want keep an eye on the total amount he is taking in. Give him an extra pet for me when you bring him home today. And a kiss from Benson!  |
| The vet just called. They x-rayed his hips, knees, and back AND palpitated all of his joints. And 2 docs looked at the films. They really didn't see much. She characterized it as very, very mild arthritis, if it's that at all, and said she was pleasantly surprised. She had expected to see more based on the way he whimpered while manipulating his legs. She suggested putting him on rimadyl and Dosequin, but I expressed my uneasiness at putting him on rimadyl, especially if it's so mild that it's barely perceptible on film. So we'll try just the Dosequin by itself first, but it may take a month or so to see improvement. Hopefully the supplements alone will work for awhile before we have to move him into something stronger. I can't believe I'm having to do this now. Like I said, I wasn't expecting this until 10 or 11. Should there be anything else I should be doing for him? Any other questions to ask the vet? Any other supplements? Should I switch him to senior food (grrrrrr)? I can pick him up after 4 PM EST. |
| Though they always say there needn't be a direct correlation between degree of arthritis and pain, so it could be the very mild arthritis making him ouchy, it's also possible he wrenched his back or has some kind of soft tissue injury which won't show up on x-ray, but can take a long time to heal. Given what you described, for now I wouldn't have wanted to jump to the NSAIDs yet either, just in case it is some kind of slight injury and he's still in the healing phase and needs to take it a little easy. If he starts to gradually improve, that's what I'd guess. If he gets progressively ouchier, it's more likely arthritis and at that point you'll probably be considering which NSAID to go with. But it needn't be that he's on it every day for the rest of his life, either. Either way, hope he feels better soon. Kristine |
| Ditto on the glucosamine, fish oil and sometimes vitamin E. We had Pooh Bear on Deramaxx towards the end for his pain relief. He had a liver tumor and it was the one the vet recommended that would be easier on the liver. But it was expensive....about $1.00 a pill and maybe more by now. Are they sure that Brick doesn't have a small tear in his ACL or miniscus? |
| I asked about a soft tissue injury, but this has been going on since probably around July. The vet said that if it had been a soft tissue injury, it should have resolved by now. |
| Think about stressors on the hips, positions he lies in, what he lies on, jumping up and down in and out of tall vehicles, off tall furniture, stairs, etc. I'm not saying it needs to stop, just look at what might be putting strain on the joints. A soft bed might be helpful. I would hold off on NSAIDs until there is a hint of immobility. Perhaps there is only pain when moving in very specific ways. Maybe not, but they're strong and can be tough on the tummy. Any NSAIDs (I think Deramax is in short supply or discontinued, by the way) should be taken with a stomach protectant, like Tagamet or Cytotec. Just my 2c worth. |
| So we got Dasuquin (glucosimine/chondroitin combo) as his supplement. He gets 2 tablets every 24 hours for 4-6 weeks, then reduced to 1 tablet every 24 hours for maintenance. I asked about fish oil and the vet said that would be good, too. I can buy it at the grocery store but I have to make sure it's high it omega 3. And I have to puncture the capsule and pour the oil on his food. Any brand recommendations? I also asked about vitamin E but she hadn't heard of that. I asked for copies of his x-rays. They said they copied onto my thumb drive. I haven't checked yet. If they're there, I'll post them up later. They look great if you ask me. You really have to look to see anything that may resemble arthritis. Brick is a little sleepy right now and probably will be for awhile. So I'll keep him quiet tonight. Maybe a little bit of food in a few hours. |
Oh...oh...why is Deramaxx in short supply or "discontinued"?  Pooh Bear was on it for a few months towards the end of his life, but it did help him and the pain. |
Quote: Closed plant leads Novartis to plead for vet loyalty Novartis dogs vets to stick with it as production halt hurts animal meds business August 30, 2012 | By Eric Palmer Manufacturing problems and disruptions at Novartis ($NVS) plants in Nebraska and Canada led to shortages that created problems for consumers, doctors and their patients, who sometimes have few alternatives. Among those affected are veterinarians, some of whom tell Veterinary Information Network (VIN) that they have gone elsewhere for meds and may be loath to return. This sentiment is troubling enough to the company that Novartis recently sent a pleading letter to vets saying it hopes to have animal medications to them soon and asking asking them not to bail out on Novartis. The letter, which VIN nabbed a copy of, reads, "While we understand your need to do what is right for your business, patients and clients, we hope you will seriously consider saving us a spot on your shelves. We politely ask that you give your Novartis sales representatives a chance to earn back your business." The backups started 8 months ago, after Novartis closed its consumer drug plant in Lincoln, NE, in response to a long list of manufacturing deficiencies cited by the FDA. The plant makes some animal health products in addition to its OTC products. The situation was further complicated in February when Novartis' Sandoz division altered production at a plant in Boucherville, Quebec, while it addressed FDA concerns there. An alert from the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association said the problems were affecting availability of 8 human drugs often used by vets, including morphine, diazepam and phenobarbital. Novartis' animal care products include the usual flea treatments like Capstar and pain drug Deramaxx, but the big sellers, VIN says, are its anti-parasitics, Interceptor and Sentinel. As popular as they were, some vets just couldn't wait around and are not inclined to return to using them. "I had 1,500 patients on Interceptor," Dr. John Daugherty, an Ohio vet, tells VIN. "We can't go a whole year without heartworm preventative. At this point, we have almost all of our clients switched over to something else. I'm not going to tell them next year that they now need to switch back." That kind of response has to bug a company that Pharmalot reports last year sold $1.3 billion in animal drugs. It is interested enough in animal drugs that earlier this year it reportedly made an unsuccessful $16 billion offer for Pfizer's ($PFE) animal health unit. |
| love Dasuquin! Make sure you have the bottle with MSM - makes a big difference!!! |
| Thanks Ron for the info...... It's sad when drug companies production hurts animals and humans. I know that there are certain human medication the companies are behind in the amount they are producing, too. Makes you wonder what is really behind the backlog. |
| Reading between the lines, their plant was filthy and dangerous. Quote: The backups started 8 months ago, after Novartis closed its consumer drug plant in Lincoln, NE, in response to a long list of manufacturing deficiencies cited by the FDA. The plant makes some animal health products in addition to its OTC products. The situation was further complicated in February when Novartis' Sandoz division altered production at a plant in Boucherville, Quebec, while it addressed FDA concerns there. |
| Oh......... |
| Hate to hear all this about Brick. Sending good vibes for a positive outcome tomorrow. |
| I'm sorry Brick's starting to have issues. I'd recommend the glucosamine chondroitin supplements that your vet recommends. Mine were on Cosequin and there was another with a similar name which I can't remember and they made a huge difference. I agree with the fish oil or whatever type of oil your vet recommends. We used oils until Hannah got diabetes and then she couldn't have them. I know my Mom swears by cod liver oil for humans and animals. It has to be the kind you buy from a health food store and not flavored or have any additional ingredients. Be very careful that you don't get any of those artificial flavorings that a dog's body can't process. Nature Made has been a good vitamin brand for our family. I'd hold off on the pain meds until you are sure he even needs them. Supplements and oils may be all he needs at this beginning stage. Then when it progresses to pain meds needed if you try a med like Tramadol that you can give maybe just every few days or after he's had a lot of activity to take the edge off and stay ahead of his pain threshold. Not sure if the other pain meds can be given sporadically. Initially to treat Hannah's arthritis we did Cosequin and oil recommened by the vet and then when she got diabetes and couldn't have oil any longer that was replaced with tramadol sporadically and gradually increased to daily. As pain increased we added Previcox along with the tramadol and she did really well with that for a long time. Previcox was expensive though. Tramadol was chosen because it offered the least amount of side effects or potential issues given all her other health considerations. In her very last days we tried rimadyl and it wasn't a good medication for her particular situation. In addition to traditional treatments, I highly recommend holistic therapies given through a vet that also does holistic treatments and chiropractic too. I can recommend those types of treatments highly! Brick's lucky to have such a caring Dad. I remember seeing another post about you looking for a temp home for your Sheepie that you share with your ex. We could watch him here in Las Vegas for you but I didn't offer because I thought we are probably too far for you to consider. |
Here's his x-rays. They're labeled in the pics.  In the hip one, you can see the bumps and thickening on his leg bones (I called them out). But the ball & socket look great. And his spine looks great, too. |
| So is he home? What did the vet recommend for him? Hope he is feeling better today. |
| Hi Brenda, He's home. The vet put him on Dasuquin (glucosimine/chondroitin combo) as his supplement. He gets 2 tablets every 24 hours for 4-6 weeks, then reduced to 1 tablet every 24 hours for maintenance. He's up & about today. He didn't do anything yesterday after he got home except lie down and sleep. |
| I have some idea of how you are feeling. My Maggie is 8 and she is still super-active and playful, but at night, I can tell that the playing has taken more out of her than it used to. CamVal1 wrote: Should there be anything else I should be doing for him? Something popular for Boulder dogs with arthritis -- swimming. There are a couple of swim therapy tanks where the dog swims either against a current or being held by a leash (more sustained than just letting them swim outdoors -- but swimming outdoors is great too if you have that option). There are also therapy places that have underwater treadmills.The idea is that the impact of land-based activities hurt and swimming enables them to strengthen without impact. I had Chumley do this when her spine/hips were ailing and it helped her a lot. And I've seen many of the other dogs around town whose owners swear by it. Usually, it starts at about 10 minutes per week and then dogs build up to 20 or 30 minutes per session. Chumley loved it. Another popular option here is acupuncture. I also tried that with Chumley. It definitely reduced her pain and relaxed her but I found the swimming more beneficial because she also got stronger which helped take the pressure off of her joints. I hope you find something that helps Brick. |
Quote: Any NSAIDs (I think Deramax is in short supply or discontinued, by the way) should be taken with a stomach protectant, like Tagamet or Cytotec. So right, Ron. MO needs her Pepcid every day. DH is on some weird NSAIDS and that's the warning, first sign of tummy problems get a stomach protectant. Which bring up the bone bumps........what do they say those are? DH has heterotropic ossification....he's growing stalagmites all over this hip. Wonder what Brick has?? Yeah DH in pain. |
| Susan, I never asked the vet what technically the bumps are. It never dawned on me to ask a questtion like that. I suppose I could call them and ask. |
| BELLA JUST TURNED 9 AND ABOUT A MONTH AGO WE STARTED HER ON PREVICOX TOO. BUT IT IS EXPENSIVE. BUT SHE WAS FALLING ON THE HARDWOOD FLOORS AND WE WOULD HAVE. TO PICK HER UP. HER HIPS WERE REALLY SORE. IT IS AWFUL TO SEE MY BABY NOT FEELIi NG GOOD  |
| I'm not sure if you can get it in the US but the supplement Seraquin is brilliant. Celyn was on it for 3 years and it made a real difference to her aches and pains. Hoping all is good with Brickie. Debs |
| I wonder if Seraquin is the same thing as Dasuquin? Cuz he's on Dasuquin now. |
| And they have Cosequin available over the counter. I'm not sure how similar they are. I saw on the TV commercial for it with Jack Hanna that it's now at WalMart. And the ad has a sheepdog in it! |
Wish I could say something about the ex-rays but I can't read them or understand them at all  And I know all about the Novartis plant. Isn't that the plant that used to supply the heartworm, Advantrix and Sentinel? I know they supplied Dermanex also. We give Dermanex on occasion and has worked well. Also use supplements like Glyco-Flex and salmon oil. Not familiar at all with the supp you are giving but if it works, I might try it here. I know with the derm, we give with foodHope Brick is feeling better. Sending good thoughts and sheepie love your way |
got sheep wrote: And they have Cosequin available over the counter. I'm not sure how similar they are. I saw on the TV commercial for it with Jack Hanna that it's now at WalMart. And the ad has a sheepdog in it! Our "home town Jungle Jack" |
| Oh bricky! Sorry to read this. The dasaquin Is great stuff. Sending a bug kiss and hug! |
Didn't find exactly what you're looking for? Search again here:
Custom Search
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|