Any experience with diesel Suv's ?
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| I don't have the diesel SUV--but I do have the Mercedes E320 CDI Diesel and I adore it! The Diesel engine is a dream and I get on average 36 MPG. I also like the fact that the maintenance is every 13,000 miles rather than every 3000 to 5000. I have seriously considered trading it for the ML350 Bluetec--but really enjoy the car and I do have a Land Rover SUV. I will always keep a diesel for the reliability and length of life! |
| I have a ML500 and love it,however it's not a diesel. Gertie/Erin |
| So here’s my take on this: Unless you live really close to a Merc dealer/service center AND are really good friends with the folks who work there, especially the service writers, you’ll probably be better off in the long run with the Volkswagen. Yeah, it’s more fun to be seen in a Merc then a VW, but when that warranty runs out, and it will because either car will outlast it, parts and service for the VW will be less, maybe not a lot across the board, but less. Take for example a transmission. It that goes out in the Merc versus the VW, I’ll bet the price difference could be twice for the Merc. Both companies have been around for a very long time and for that, neither will be leaving us anytime soon. VW has stated in the past, as recent as a year ago that they plan on being the largest auto maker in the world by 2014 and they really seem serious about doing it. Mercedes is still trying to come back from catering to the masses in the late 90’s and forgetting the original motto: Only the best, no matter the cost.’ They’re working on it, but it will take some time. If it was my money, and in several months it will be, I’d lean heavily towards the VW. For years I have cursed all the major auto makers for not offering more diesels to the US market. Ford for one; their Fiesta diesel that's selling in Europe gets upwards of 70 mpg! Why can't we get those here?!? And VW has a model, I believe it's a Golf, maybe a Polo that also gets that number or close. I'm baffled on this thought process. Anyway, that’s just my thoughts on it. And I tend to think about this stuff a lot. Jen says too much… Vance |
| Vance, You don't see diesels much in America because Americans, as a whole, don't like them. They were soured to diesels back in the late '70s to early '80s, when they were rattle-y, smoky, smelly, gutless pieces of crap that wouldn't start when it was cold outside (those days certainly formed my opinion of them). And then couple that with the ~$5,000 premium for the diesel engine and the added cost of diesel over gasoline and they don't make sense for most people. With that said, I HATE diesels and would never own one. |
| i have a diesel vw jetta...it is a 2000....i LOVE my car!! i average 36 city and 43-45 highway..on average i fill up about every 2 1/2 weeks...city driving with a/c on gets me about 400-420 miles per tank of gas. we can drive to california (368 miles) on just under a half tank of gas... brian is looking for a new jetta for me...it will be a diesel again...he just traded his pt cruiser in for a vw golf diesel... the diesel engine only gets better with age...if only i aged as well..lol |
| new to a diseasil ? - do NOT make the costly mistake of putting Petrol/Gas in it and start the engine. Mooochos $$$$$$$$$ |
| My motorhome has a Caterpillar diesel motor in it. Solid as a rock. Love it. The alternator sux, but it's a small specialty GM alternator that's supposed to also supply the chassis battery bank. I wish they would have put a much heavier duty model in its stead. |
CamVal1 wrote: Vance, You don't see diesels much in America because Americans, as a whole, don't like them. They were soured to diesels back in the late '70s to early '80s, when they were rattle-y, smoky, smelly, gutless pieces of crap that wouldn't start when it was cold outside (those days certainly formed my opinion of them). And then couple that with the ~$5,000 premium for the diesel engine and the added cost of diesel over gasoline and they don't make sense for most people. With that said, I HATE diesels and would never own one. Mark, I must say this is one of the most narrow-minded things I've ever heard. Having driven a semi back when the Clean Diesel was pushed into the regulations, I can personally attest to the fact that diesels are not what you and most of the American society thinks. Apparently you missed the 2011 BMW Super Bowl ad touting their new clean diesel, years after the US trucking industry conformed... Also, the price difference is about $3500 between the Touareg models. I don't about you, but $1500 is a fair amount of money to be off by. And while we're talking numbers; diesel prices around me are only about $0.20 higher then regular unleaded, so figure in how much less you'd use, you probably will come out ahead Things change man... Accept it. Embrace it. I'll own an electric car as soon as I can build it the way it should be done. Vance |
| Diesel being more expensive than gasoline is a relatively new phenomenon too... |
| True Ron. When I was driving a semi, I was paying $0.40-$0.50 a gallon below the unleaded prices. Higher diesel prices have only been like this for about the last four years or so. Vance |
| I still think the cost of ownership across 5 years will not pay for itself. The Chevy Cruze diesel that's coming will probably have a huge premium over the gas version (like 3-5K), will not offer significant MPG increases, and the fuel will cost more. For the average American owner/driver, diesel does not make sense. And diesel engines don't provide the same driving characteristics as gas engines. If they did, they would just replace gas engines with diesels. Diesels will not provide me with the performance and driving characteristics I expect from an engine and car. I guess that makes me narrow minded. |
| Lots of people are turning to diesel cars in the UK as they get so many mpg and a lot cleaner than they used to be. But the down side is the price over here so if you don't use your car a lot people would be better of with petrol. My mate has a ford focus & does about 70 + mpg & it is not slow as well. So things have improved vast amounts |
| Our gallons are bigger, putting figures up you need to bear that in mind. |
| I gotta be honest and think that the vast majority of those buying an SUV, regardless of make aren’t really that interested in track-day performance they’re more mature than that. Otherwise, they would be looking solely at the Audi RS 6 V10 BiTurbo Quattro that Top Gear UK tested a while back if they were that serious about space and planting their passenger’s head into the headrest. That little soccer mom piloted monster had 580bhp and will put the fear of God into any two seat roadster owner. So, back to the OP’s question… Let’s look at the cars themselves. They both have similar power, both bhp, (that’s brake horsepower; that’s what keeps you at speed) and torque, (that’s what gets you up to speed and without that, you may as well be pushing a lawnmower) They both weigh about 5000 pounds, that 2 ½ tons! And they both get about the same mileage – 27 for the Merc and 28 for the VW. And for a 5000 vehicle, that’s very admirable. The VW’s towing rating is 500lbs more than the Merc, but either way they both haul a fair amount. As for something that should matter, the 0-60 time, and this should matter as this is what you use to enter a busy interstate highway from a ramp; they both can pull it off in around 7 ½ seconds. That’s a full 2 seconds faster than my massive Trooper. Keep in mind I bought my Trooper because it was the largest SUV I could buy the most interior room with a manual transmission and I didn’t give a flying rat’s you know what much else. Here I am, twelve years and two clutches later and I’ve loved it non-stop since day one. Since they’re both SUVs, they have a higher center of gravity, so they won’t handle like a sports car, to any degree. But since they are an SUV and have all-wheel drive, they both will take you places something like a Pontiac Solstice would never dream of and you’ll probably have a better, more comfy ride while getting there. One thing I did notice is that in the Merc’s website, they list many things in their specs section as TBD. This means that the info is ‘to be determined’. This means that there are still some manufacturing decisions to be made. It also means that there may be some bug to be worked out. I would not like to be an owner of a new car where the design has not been proven. Some issues tend to take several model years, sometimes even longer to be worked out. Mercedes has been known to drag their feet to some degree in this area. The current and third generation M350 has only been built for a year or so. Yes it’s based on previous models, but with some serious changes. The current Touareg has been in production for the better part of ten years so they’re surely to be past this issue. Oh, and be sure to tell your husband to base his decision on what he wants, likes and needs; not on 30 year old information that is simply out of date. So, back my original statement; I’d lean towards the VW Touareg. Sorry about the long-winded post. Vance |
| Gotta ask why you would be comparing an SUV to a "two seat roadster" and a "Pontiac Solstice". Nobody in their right mind would ever think to take a Solstice off road. I don't understand why you'd even compare the two. And trying to make a link between interest in track-day performance and maturity level is ridiculous. There's absolutely no correlation between the two. I guess we should leave it at you like what you like and I like what I like. |
| My motorhome has 900 ft lbs of torque give or take and does 0-60 in just under 10 vacation days. |
CamVal1 wrote: Gotta ask why you would be comparing an SUV to a "two seat roadster" and a "Pontiac Solstice". Nobody in their right mind would ever think to take a Solstice off road. I don't understand why you'd even compare the two. And trying to make a link between interest in track-day performance and maturity level is ridiculous. There's absolutely no correlation between the two. I guess we should leave it at you like what you like and I like what I like. I think he's trying to point out that it isn't a little car, it's an SUV. I think... |
| Just one last thing. I looked up True Cost of Ownership on Edmunds.com to compare 2 vehicles, one with a gas engine, the other with a diesel engine. Over 5 years, the total cost of ownership is higher in the diesel powered car compared to the gas powered car. Here's the links: VW Touareg TDI Executive 4x4 http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/touar ... =101413964 VW Touareg VR6 Executive 4x4 http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/touar ... =101404213 You will actually SAVE $1,370 by buying the gas VW over the diesel VW. $1,370 may not sound like a lot, but I'm always looking for a way to save any amount of money I can get. AND, interestingly, Edmunds says that all Touaregs have a towing capacity of 7,700 lbs, no matter the powertrain. |
| Ask for both vehicles to test drive over a weekend and he can see what he (Read you) prefers (Plus it shows you which dealer will go the extra mile for a sale), try out lot's of other models too. |
| Thanks for your thoughtful replies especially Vance. We are test driving the Mercedes ml 350 this w/e so will let you know how it compares to the VW touareg tdi. |
| I got so angry with the VW service manager when I took my Saab to their combined dealership I swore I'd never drive a Volkswagen! Definitely would go with the Mercedes as well. Lots more curb appeal! Now, what color are you considering?  |
| As long as you and hubby are happy, that's all that matter. Good luck and have fun experimenting. Try to do all the things you'd normally do with your current car. Park in a parking garage. Parallel park. Hit a car wash, not literally... Drive on every available road surface. Take it down the busiest, narrowest city street. Go to a McDonald's drive through. Back into your own garage. Seriously, do EVERYTHING!!! Then sit back and think about what you like and don't. Then put the dog into the car and do it again!!! Then you'll have your answer! Post some photos! Vance |
| Well, we test drove the 2009 mercedes ml 320 this past weekend. WOW ! It certainly beat the VW touareg in terms of comfort . The seats are fabulous and the car had a beautiful interior. It drove like a dream and we loved the back up camera which comes on as soon as you put it in reverse. Visibility out the back window is not as good as the touareg. One negative thing is that the diesel engine is louder than the touareg although not what I'd call obtrusive. So, we are completely undecided at this point . We are wondering what your experience with the service and parts dept's are for these two ? I've been on both the forums but information is all over the place . |
| German cars = Heckspensive service costs and parts. |
Archies Slave wrote: German cars = Heckspensive service costs and parts. You got that right. |
| MB service is hard to beat. You can buy a service plan that cover routine maintenance. If you schedule in advance, as opposed to drop in for service, they will provide a NICE loaner at no charge. Parts are expensive, but the vehicles are well-made. They wash your car with every service trip. I am amazed at the number of people who pay cash (or do a wire transfer) for these vehicles. |
| If its to pull a travel trailer then you need to really check which has the better pulling rear axel ratio. My husband is looking to get a Ford 250 Diesel to pull our 31 ft trailer with. (and Im hoping to upgrade to a 5th wheel soon) |
| Just an update for anyone following our thread on diesel suvs. So far we have test driven 4 mercedes (2x09,10,11and 2 touareg vws(09,12) and today we test drove a jeep grand cherokee overland diesel 2008. The issue that has come up time and time again is warranty. Mercedes Canada does not allow you to purchase an extended warranty from them unless you are the original owner .Mercedes pre- owned prices are much higher than other dealers . The third party warranties available are total crap and no one seems to have anything much good to say about their experiences with having repairs covered. So I think we have ruled out the mercedes ml diesel and the vw touareg diesel for the moment.Getting info from dealers and even mercedes has been awful because unless you ask a direct question no one volunteers anything. However, the merc forum has been where we've learned the most and that's why this process is taking so long.... Repairs are astronomical $$$$$$$$$$$ so maintaining these vehicles is too expensive for us. Now on to the grand cherokee diesel. We knew not to compare it to these other more high end vehicles so we tried to keep in mind our nissan pathfinder as we test drove it. However it does have the merc engine 5 not 7 gears and drove like a dream . Nicely appointed inside with all the perks. Back up camera picture was terrible but otherwise we really liked it a lot. and it tows just like a diesel should. Apparently, Jeep is coming out with a gc diesel next year but it will be over $ 50,000 and that's too much for us. So stay tuned and I'll keep you updated. |
| My dad has a Jeep GC (not diesel) and it gets terrible gas mileage, 11 or so in the city and 15 highway. Yuck. |
| Just a quick update. So we purchased a 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland diesel and couldn't be more pleased. Low mileage and in great condition A very comfy ride and all the bells and whistles in the interior. One of the reasons we chose this vehicle is in comparison to the German Sherman's , the maintenance cost is at least half, baring any major problems. I personally was in love with the mercedes but in the end I just couldn't justify the cost of servicing it. |
| Congratulations! Drive it in good health. |
| You're happy. That's all that matters. Congrats and many happy miles of motoring! Vance |
| Awesome choice! I assume it's 4WD? |
| Yes, it's 4 wheel and can tow 7200 lbs. A little less than either the VW or Merc but just fine for us. This is our first north american car as we've always had Japanese or European . So far we are loving it. We are now trying to hook up a remote brake controller ( first time trying the remote, always had the trailer places install one in our suv) will let you know what we think. |
katdog wrote: Yes, it's 4 wheel and can tow 7200 lbs. Very nice! The transfer case in your vehicle (the device that lets the vehicle shift from 2wd to 4wd) was made right here in Syracuse, NY at New Process Gear (NPG). I used to work for them. Sadly, they ended production just this past Thursday. The company that bought them from Chrysler (Magna, back in 2004) didn't think it was important to keep that work in the States and so they transferred it to Mexico. New Process Gear opened in 1888 (not a typo). They were in business for 124 years. The stuff coming out of the Mexican plant is junk. There isn't anyone in the world that can do what we did. Anyways, congrats on the Jeep. At least you now know that you got one of the good transfer cases. A Syracuse, NY NPG built transfer case. Enjoy! |
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