Woodshadow Kennels
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That's terrible, I'm sorry your family went through this.  Quote: Think about getting a dog only in person, even if it means you don't get your favorite breed. However, I don't necessarily agree with this, most great breeders ship puppies, North America being a very big place with good reputable OES breeders (and other uncommon breeds) being few and far between. So if your family's heart is set on a sheepdog (no surprise, we'd all understand  ), I wouldn't exclude breeders (or the breed!) based on this. I certainly understand once bit, twice shy... I'd still hate to see people's dreams destroyed because of terrible breeders. I know there are knowledgeable people here who would help you with how and what to look for in a "distance" breeder. |
| Oh I am so sorry. What a nightmare! It is very very important to really know a lot about the breeder and their reputation. There is a great section on how to look for a pup etc... This is a wonderful forum full of people with lots of knowledge and experience. I have learned tins here! |
| Buying puppies online: Baba, I know what you are saying. Our last dog was ordered online and he was amazing. But it's a huge committment of time and finances to have a purebred dog. and if you can't see the kennel it's really difficult to know how much to trust someone. I should have asked other breeders, even though it didn't "feel right". |
| Sad to hear what went on, dont take the breed in general as the norm from where you got her from and what happened, read what is posted in stickys here in this section when thinking about choosing a puppper, questions to ask as well as documented proof in writing provided via email or what-ever. Some claim to show dogs etc but following the instructions here can save a huge heart break down the track!!!. I cant imagine what you have been through, hell and back, and even though at the time not wanting to question other breeders at the time to peruse/check out who you were thinking of at the time getting a pup from is not detrimental to other breeders. The Norm as far as checks are concerned. So sorry you experienced that with the breed, dont be turned off by OES because of that   |
| I suppose it depends on where you're located but I was told of an OES puppy buyer who took a breeder to small claims court in their own state. Their new, too young puppy had died within days of picking him up. It would have been a burden for the breeder to appear in court so she was allowed to testify via telephone. Not sure whether this is possible but I wouldn't cash that check nor would I consider this finished. Oh, and by the way, the breeder lost the case and eventually stopped breeding. I'm so sorry for your suffering and the suffering of this pup. Some breeders are just junk. |
| ** This may not be important at this point, but... Just goes to show that just because someone has been breeding for 30 years (or however long) doesn't mean squat. Experience is great, but doesn't make you someone who should breed. (Not saying anything about this particular breeder - I don't know a thing about them.) Shellie |
| Thank you for including the "kennel (can you call it a kennel?) name" of this seemingly unethical and unscrupulous breeder (can you call the person a breeder?). Very sorry to hear of your unsettling experience with such a wonderful breed. Speaking of which, the "wonderful breed" is a by-product of "credible, wonderful breeders," and a special thank you to the credible, wonderful OES breeders out there. Too many times here I've seen contributors keep the questionable kennel/breeder name a secret, for reasons that I do not understand. It's helpful to know who the "Bad Apples" are, and rest assured, I'll be keeping the name "Woodshadow Kennels" on my Radar Screen. |
| It appears that the correct spelling of the kennel name is WOODSSHADOW Kennel. SEE:http://woodsshadowkennel.com/ |
wjsVT wrote: Too many times here I've seen contributors keep the questionable kennel/breeder name a secret, for reasons that I do not understand. Because the contributors don't want to get sued, that's why. Our society is WAYYY to litigious nowadays. Instead of a person or company that provides a service getting better based on negative feedback, they just sue the party giving the negative feedback to shut them up. And even if they don't win their lawsuit, it will cost the defendent TONS of money to defend themselves against the lawsuit. It's just not worth it. |
| Well, I don't know about others' motivations, but as far as being sued? Opinion is opinion and the truth is an absolute defense. If you have documented things claimed and label opinion as such there's not much anyone can do. A lawyer can send a letter which can be responded to (or not), but a decent lawyer won't take the case beyond that. oes.org has been contacted and/or threatened any number of times from people upset by postings. As the publisher of other people's opinions, oes.org is not liable for the posts. If the aggrieved person is very nice I might be disposed to look into things and tone things down or even remove them if they make a convincing case. If they aren't nice, I tend not to be very accommodating. Occasionally I've whined about some consumer complaints because I've been busy and don't want to bring on the inevitable confrontational communications. However I generally try not to discourage consumer complaints (or praises) from our members. |
| I remember a story about a towing company in Michigan suing a guy because the guy posted negative stuff about the company online. Oh, here's the story: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/michig ... d=10763142 And here's a link to a story about how you need to be careful what you post online: http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news ... ntPage=all This topic would make an excellent thread outside of this one. |
| The laws are different in Canada, so as Ron said, since you have documentation regarding the situation, go for it. |
| http://www.cba.org/bc/public_media/rights/240.aspx |
| My heart sank when I read your post. I searched for the right breeder, and extensively sought any negative posts online... didn't find any until now. we picked up our OES 2 years ago from Woodshadow kennel as well, and we have had a series of issues, ranging from eye and CONSTANT ear infections, skin problems that also keep him and us up all night from violent scratching fits. he is is uncomfortable it breaks my heart. we finally had to put him on allergy pills with steroids which calms the itching but how long can you keep a dog on these??? i called the breeder who said shave him down and shampoo him with anti-fungal meds... doesn't work. then at 2 years old the aggression really began. our dog has always been jumpy, and hyperactive when people visit, as in takes AGES to calm down. or when we walk by his behind he jumps and growls... this was somewhat manageable, and then the biting and aggressive attempts at biting began. we have worked with 2 different trainers and are hoping we will see results but bottom line is, as we feared, its the breeding. he is one day second happy, tail wagging, kissing, being so funny and sweet as he typically is, but then out of the blue someone will move a certain way, or touch him somewhere (the head or back, anywhere) and he now tries to bite - even small children. so he lives in a muzzle now unless with us alone at a park or at the house. it is truly heart breaking, we absolutely adore him but he is very stressful to be around, with the barking (high pitched) and inability to calm down. now if someone approaches him on a leash he will growl and try to bite even on occasion. he is a mess. we have worked hard with him, feed him a great diet, give him a ton of love, play time, exercise, socialization with other people and dogs from day 1... I have had suspicions for the past year it was the breeding but couldnt find any other complaints, and today saw this. when we went to see him for the second visit as a puppy his dad came out who was crazy. we thought they just dotn have time to train properly but now looking back our dog is the same as his father. and also there was a dog on the sofa in the house when we walked by, close to sofa, bared his/her teeth and growled. not really a typical OES trait. we should have seen the signs but were already so in love with the puppy we just ignored it and were excited about getting him home. not sure what to do? is this treatable if we work with a great trainer and dog whisperer / psychologist?? any advice would be greatly appreciated, we are desperate. |
| Sorry to hear the problems you are going through. "Hyperactivity" or puppy-like behavior is pretty normal in the breed, but the aggression shouldn't be. Our dog will be 10 years old In October (2012) and he's still a giant puppy. As far as the aggression goes, the very first thing to do is to rule out medical issues. Anyone -human or dog- will be grumpy if they're in constant pain, so a trip to the vet for this isn't out of the ordinary. Here are the things I'd look for (I hope I remember them all, and hope that others will jump in if I miss something: Hips Sight and hearing Thyroid levels General health and allergies Since there's issues with walking up from behind, I would be checking for hearing and sight as well as the hip issues/ Dogs can be pretty good at hiding deficits so you might not notice if he was having hearing or sight problems. Several folks have told us here that people wouldn't know their dog was completely blind unless they were told. Low Thyroid levels are a problem in our breed. Low thyroid can cause aggression issues. Good luck... please register here so you can follow this thread and others in our community. Welcome! |
Guest wrote: My heart sank when I read your post. I searched for the right breeder, and extensively sought any negative posts online... didn't find any until now. we picked up our OES 2 years ago from Woodshadow kennel as well, and we have had a series of issues, ranging from eye and CONSTANT ear infections, skin problems that also keep him and us up all night from violent scratching fits. he is is uncomfortable it breaks my heart. we finally had to put him on allergy pills with steroids which calms the itching but how long can you keep a dog on these??? i called the breeder who said shave him down and shampoo him with anti-fungal meds... doesn't work. then at 2 years old the aggression really began. our dog has always been jumpy, and hyperactive when people visit, as in takes AGES to calm down. or when we walk by his behind he jumps and growls... this was somewhat manageable, and then the biting and aggressive attempts at biting began. we have worked with 2 different trainers and are hoping we will see results but bottom line is, as we feared, its the breeding. he is one day second happy, tail wagging, kissing, being so funny and sweet as he typically is, but then out of the blue someone will move a certain way, or touch him somewhere (the head or back, anywhere) and he now tries to bite - even small children. so he lives in a muzzle now unless with us alone at a park or at the house. it is truly heart breaking, we absolutely adore him but he is very stressful to be around, with the barking (high pitched) and inability to calm down. now if someone approaches him on a leash he will growl and try to bite even on occasion. he is a mess. we have worked hard with him, feed him a great diet, give him a ton of love, play time, exercise, socialization with other people and dogs from day 1... I have had suspicions for the past year it was the breeding but couldnt find any other complaints, and today saw this. when we went to see him for the second visit as a puppy his dad came out who was crazy. we thought they just dotn have time to train properly but now looking back our dog is the same as his father. and also there was a dog on the sofa in the house when we walked by, close to sofa, bared his/her teeth and growled. not really a typical OES trait. we should have seen the signs but were already so in love with the puppy we just ignored it and were excited about getting him home. not sure what to do? is this treatable if we work with a great trainer and dog whisperer / psychologist?? any advice would be greatly appreciated, we are desperate. Being on steroids at such a young age for a long time is not good. Since you & your vet have suspected allergies, the 1st thing I would do is get your dog to a dermatology/allgery veterinary specialst. They will run some test to find out exactly what he is allergic to & start you on a program to desensitize him to the same. It may require taking him off steroids for a specific length of time BEFORE they do the testing in order for them to get a true reading. Steroids have their place & can help in certain instances but I doubt very much that it is good for him to be on them for extended periods of time at such a young age not to mention that they suppress the immune system & make him more suseptible to illnesses going around. Once you have this physical portion under control you can work on training him to see if you can work around these problems. It may work out & it may not....as you said, the temperment issue could also be in the breeding. But in any case you will never be able to accomplish much in the way of training as long as he is on steroids or uncomfortable. |
| Here are links to two great resources: http://cvm.msu.edu/hospital/services/de ... letter.pdf http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... PuNdr3dCFQ ChSheepdogs wrote: Guest wrote: My heart sank when I read your post. I searched for the right breeder, and extensively sought any negative posts online... didn't find any until now. we picked up our OES 2 years ago from Woodshadow kennel as well, and we have had a series of issues, ranging from eye and CONSTANT ear infections, skin problems that also keep him and us up all night from violent scratching fits. he is is uncomfortable it breaks my heart. we finally had to put him on allergy pills with steroids which calms the itching but how long can you keep a dog on these??? i called the breeder who said shave him down and shampoo him with anti-fungal meds... doesn't work. then at 2 years old the aggression really began. our dog has always been jumpy, and hyperactive when people visit, as in takes AGES to calm down. or when we walk by his behind he jumps and growls... this was somewhat manageable, and then the biting and aggressive attempts at biting began. we have worked with 2 different trainers and are hoping we will see results but bottom line is, as we feared, its the breeding. he is one day second happy, tail wagging, kissing, being so funny and sweet as he typically is, but then out of the blue someone will move a certain way, or touch him somewhere (the head or back, anywhere) and he now tries to bite - even small children. so he lives in a muzzle now unless with us alone at a park or at the house. it is truly heart breaking, we absolutely adore him but he is very stressful to be around, with the barking (high pitched) and inability to calm down. now if someone approaches him on a leash he will growl and try to bite even on occasion. he is a mess. we have worked hard with him, feed him a great diet, give him a ton of love, play time, exercise, socialization with other people and dogs from day 1... I have had suspicions for the past year it was the breeding but couldnt find any other complaints, and today saw this. when we went to see him for the second visit as a puppy his dad came out who was crazy. we thought they just dotn have time to train properly but now looking back our dog is the same as his father. and also there was a dog on the sofa in the house when we walked by, close to sofa, bared his/her teeth and growled. not really a typical OES trait. we should have seen the signs but were already so in love with the puppy we just ignored it and were excited about getting him home. not sure what to do? is this treatable if we work with a great trainer and dog whisperer / psychologist?? any advice would be greatly appreciated, we are desperate. Being on steroids at such a young age for a long time is not good. Since you & your vet have suspected allergies, the 1st thing I would do is get your dog to a dermatology/allgery veterinary specialst. They will run some test to find out exactly what he is allergic to & start you on a program to desensitize him to the same. It may require taking him off steroids for a specific length of time BEFORE they do the testing in order for them to get a true reading. Steroids have their place & can help in certain instances but I doubt very much that it is good for him to be on them for extended periods of time at such a young age not to mention that they suppress the immune system & make him more suseptible to illnesses going around. Once you have this physical portion under control you can work on training him to see if you can work around these problems. It may work out & it may not....as you said, the temperment issue could also be in the breeding. But in any case you will never be able to accomplish much in the way of training as long as he is on steroids or uncomfortable. |
| I am so sorry to hear that you have also had a bad experience. One thing that we noticed was how aggressive Daisy got when on steroids. It's a rare side effect, but as soon as we took her off them she stopped snarling and baring her teeth. Right now our issue is walking her on leash. She's great until she sees another dog and then she barks and lunges aggressively. It's so embarrassing and we wanted a sheepdog because they are friendly. |
| Thanks everyone for the feedback. We are going back to the vet again... after the cost of buying our OES and the vets visits, meds, training we have spent well over $7000 in the past 2 years... but we love our dog and if we get him sorted then worth every penny. we will take your advice and go off the steroids, ask the vet to test his thyroid. he did a vision and hearing test previously and hips. he has arthritis. at 2 years... there was another incident this weekend when all of a sudden my husband and i could tell he was about to become aggressive... we can now read his mood changes but didn't get the muzzle on him fast enough and he bit my sister who just put out her hand to have him sniff it. we know its his anxiety and fear aggression and are terrified we wont be able to "fix" him. we will try all possible avenues though. we are both almost fearful of him at times when he slips into one of his aggressive moods. its really crazy. my brother in law who has raised and trained 8 or 9 dogs was trying to make him calm, petting his head but he kept growling and if the muzzle wasn't on would have bit him at least 5 times. its so stressful. we don't ever want to have people over anymore, and I am sure that our family and friends don't want us visiting with our dog who now most people are afraid of. we have an appointment in September with a behavioral dog psych who will be able to tell us if these problems are trainable. i am suspecting not since its likely the breeding... any additional thoughts or suggestions welcome. lastly - what do we do about the breeder?? |
| Shoot them. Is that too extreme? Obviously, that was tongue in cheek. I'm so sorry for what you've been through but it's good to see you are set in sorting this out. Please keep us posted. Vance |
| we have the appointment with our vet to check thyroid and brain tumours. we have spoken with a trainer that boards your dog to work with fear aggression and anxiety for 2-3 weeks. they have excellent credentials and we have our first meeting with them tomorrow night. fingers crossed. |
| Our paws are crossed for you. We had a thryoid problem here and after getting tested and using the meds, I have a whole new dog! Is there a training facility you can take some obedience classes in? They will help too. Just make sure you pick someone who understands the breed and the particular problems with this pup so they can use the training methods for your particular dog. Nothing too harsh. Good Luck. Our pawas are crossed for good luck for you! |
| I too was taken by this breeder. I was there and did see his trophys and ribbons for breeding. The puppy I purchased was small and underweight but I was assured he was just a runt. He was in fact sick and I was encouraged by my vet to return him after I spent quite a bit to try and care for him. I did but was not totally refunded and Bill (Woodshadow Kennel) 0wner did not acknowledge the test result and my vet even called him and tried to speak with the vet Bill supposedly uses for his OES dogs. I did see that Bill tried to re-sell the poor puppy I had - hopefully no one else fell victum to this scam. I miss the puppy very much but my vet felt that he would not live or be able to mature to an adult. I did try every avenue to be reimbused but to no avail I am still out money from this breeder. I would discourage anyone from purchasing from this kennel or anyone associated with him. |
| We got our OES from Bill way back in 1996. Loving dog with severe anxiety issues when my husband would be away from home for work. Good natured and gentle with kids. Loved Max to bits! He had health problems as well with his hips. We are looking for an adult OES and this summer were near this kennel and stopped by to confirm that we would not be getting another dog from them. They were giving us a "great deal" if we left with a puppy right then. We were on vacation and this was not an option from any breeder, certainly not this breeder again. The dogs they had were running everywhere in unsafe areas- wood/ metal piles etc. and one little dog had the most shrunken back end I have ever seen. I actually wanted to take all the dogs from him just to make sure they would be well cared for. We went out back to see the adults and there were 3 and 4 per pen. All of the adults were freaking out when we walked by them. Bill would yell at them and try to grab them (the puppies) to put them in the pens. When he grabbed them he would grab ears, fur etc. what ever he could. The puppies would cry in pain. I couldn't get out of there fast enough because I just wanted to cry. How can this kennel still be in business? And how can he be stopped from breeding any more dogs? |
| Can't we report this guy to someone? |
| I also purchased a puppy from Woodshadow Kennels a year ago. I have experienced problems with my puppy's (Molly) temperament. She was really aggressive for several months, biting all the time. I bled several times. Her aggression subsided, but she has a crazy personality. The only health issue I've had so far is a cist on her back, which is genetic. She also had scabs all over and fleas, which we noticed after bringing her home the first day. After reading these posts, I worry she is going to have health issues. Can you guys please let me know the parents names of your puppies. I'm curious to see if Molly was bred by the same parents. Thanks. Craig |
| I am so sorry to hear several of you have had such horrible experiences with this kennel. And I feel sorry for the dogs who have had to endure illness and discomfort throughout their lives. It is extremely troublesome since you both made an earnest attempt to research and find a good breeder. There are resources out there (this forum, http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamerica.org) to help but not everyone finds them. I think it is always best to see both of the puppy's parents & the physical conditions where the pups were born if at all possible. Realistically it isn't always possible, I know. I would have NO problem asking other breeders about the reputation of a kennel. A reputable breeder should welcome such inquiries. What is unethical is the experience you (and the dogs) have been put through, not making an honest inquiry about the facts regarding a breeder's reputation. Purchasing a puppy, adopting a rescue and owning a dog is a HUGE lifetime commitment. I encourage anyone to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to find a healthy puppy with a reasonable expectation of good temperament. Linda Z |
| Could all the people who have purchased from bad kennels make a complaint to do the local authorities (that count - not sure who you would contact), so they can look into the kennels, and maybe get them shut down. It sounds like a bad situation for the dogs. If you are a new pet owner you may not be aware that these kind of kennels exist. It is usually from other peoples experiences that we learn that we need to do thorough research when getting a puppy, so if we make a mistake the first time around, we should not feel really bad but it would be best to make a complaint to the authorities about the kennel. The more complaints they get the more likely the kennel will be looked into for improper conditions and bad business practices. |
| Visited Woodsshadow recently to view dam & sire - 1st time there. Already sent our deposit. Very concerned! Dogs were (very) dirty, kennel was dirty, and the smell was so bad I was gagging! Was it like this for others who went there or have things deteriorated? Please advise as soon as possible! I think we should be requesting the deposit back & looking elsewhere asap! |
| I would encourage you to try to get back your deposit. I don't think you will be able to though. I would count it as a learning experience and research the heck out of the next "breeder" you choose. You may want to start with the breed club website. At least it is a starting place. Shellie |
| RUN, don't walk, and make sure you get your deposit back. I hope I am not too late! |
| My sister purchased from Bill as well, poor little guy was at the university of Guelph vet hospital 12 hours of coming home...similar story to everyone else however he was diagnosed with Addison's Disease, very rare in a puppy. It took them a few months, tests, different drugs etc to finally discover what was wrong with him. They almost lost him a few times, the vets tried one last thing and if it didn't work they were going to have to put him down. He'll be 3 this fall, about half the size of a normal OES. If someone other than my sister and brother in law purchased him I think the the outcome would have been different. Thousands to save this little guy. Stay away from this breeder, once you have the puppy you are on your own... |
| I have two female pups from woodshadow kennels they are 4 months old i drove down from fort mcmurray and picked them up and i have hard time believing that any of this is true what i saw was lots of beautiful dogs and bill seemed to care for them alot and we have had no trouble with our pups they are healthy and happy as were all of bills dogs they are very well temperd and well behaved quiet dogs im not saying anyone here is lieing... Im sorry for your troubles but i wanted to share my experince with you and bill has been there by email or phone to answer all of my questions ever since we picked up the dogs |
| I am so upset. I posted before re my dog from this kennel. Here is an email I sent to an oes trainer who can possibly help us find a home for my dog. I love him but can't keep him I don't think. Hi there I read a blog with your email regarding an aggressive oes We got our pup June 2010 and we love him but he is making our lives very difficult and it's creating problems in marriage as we don't like to have people over, we can't visit friends or family with our dog and he can't be boarded because of his issues We got him from wood shadow kennel in ontario and the breeder has been totally unhelpful Muswell has what we think must be fear anxiety and he has bitten 3 people. Outside at the park we never have to worry he plays with people and all dogs so well but if he is feeling cornered, in a tight space, or if resting he will growl if you approach h and or snap. He has even does this to my husband and I. If you ask him to get down off bed or sofa which he knows he is not allowed he will get down but if you go to lead h down by collar he will give a very mean warning growl. We socialized him from a young ages with friends family at the dog park with dog walkers etc and we tried to work with 3 trainers who are all pretty useless. We completely avoid potentially risky situations so there are not more bites as we are scared we will be forced to put him down. He bit my husbands aunt when he was two. He was laying on the floor and she went up and pet h and he but her wrist which caused a lot of damage. Prior to the bite he was great with her. On the deck at a cottage my sister who he previous adored called her over his tail was waging but I sensed he was in what we refer to as his dark place... She went to pet him and he bit he hand and hard. Drew blood and she was injured for a few weeks There have been other issues. Recently he tried to go for my hand because he was in our small downstairs bathroom and I leaned in to say is ok and give him a little pAt to comfort him as I sensed he was being weird and he went for my hand. Afterwards it's almost like he knows he has done something bad. When we have people over he cannot calm down he barks so loudly and is crazy. Even people he loves he is weird with. My mother in law will let him and play with him in the house but the he goes dark side and if she touches his back or bum he does his warning growl. He did this to me last night when I was giving him a cuddle. We love our boy and if we could just spend all our time at the beach or dog park he would be fine but that's not real life and it's actually destroying my marriage and I am putting off fertility treatments as I am scared to have a baby in the house with him here and I know the stress it causes will not be good for me if I were to get pregnant. My husband and I fight all the time over it and I just don't know what to do I am pretty certain these behaviours are not trainable. I think he has something for sure wrong with him. Would meds help? We have tried anxitane and calm aid and doesn't help I don't know what to do. I think if we could find a family not with little ones or couple that lived on a big farm maybe he would be better off? We do have a house and yard although he only will go to back deck without us. I am painting a very negative picture. Muswell is sweet, fun and funny and loving and we love him but I am starting to resent him for how much he is ruling our lives. Can you provide any advice or any contacts in Ontario to help us or to find him a new home? Some friends have said they think he needs to be put down which is not an option for us. Thank you in advance. Please email me at vanlew@me.com |
| Could someone not call the Humane Society or animal control or someone to investigate this kennel? I have a hard time believing only one puppy had these horrible scabs. How about a local TV station who does investigation stories?? We have a couple of TV stations here that do that and they are great stories. And it seems I read articles about puppies being rescued from a puppy mill or it makes the local news. Everyone hates to see puppies suffer. Sounds like that is what this kennel is doing, making the puppies suffer with diseases. Would that not fall under animal cruelty?? Those poor babies. This guy needs to be stopped!!! |
| I know nothing of this kennel but have seen this happen with dogs from kennels that have produced very sweet dogs previously. Don't necessarily blame the breeder for such a temperament coming out as it can and does happen occasionally. The breeder being uncooperative, for that there is NO excuse. My friend had an OES like this. Although not from the breeder in question, he sounds so similar to yours. The family had consulted with multiple trainers, behaviorists and several vets and all told them to put the dog down. She adored this dog and continued to try to resolve the problems but with her young family, he was a constant threat. His behavior was erratic to say the least and dangerously unpredictable. One minute he was Jekyll, the next he was Hyde. Re-homing your dog may be possible but please fully disclose all of his history and behavioral issues. Someone may get seriously hurt in dealing with such erratic behavior if they aren't informed. Many rescues will turn down such a dog but a few have the resources to deal with them. Unfortunately, my friend's dog was euthanized and as sad and heartbreaking as it was, no one was seriously hurt at that point. I'm totally convinced it was just a matter of time until they were. I'm a huge advocate for all dogs but sometimes tough decisions must be made. Before considering anything drastic, be sure your dog has no medical issues, chemical imbalances, tumors, etc. All can cause undesirable behaviors. I really hope your dog can be helped but please also consider what could happen if he cannot be changed. As dearly as we all value our pets, we must be realistic and consider family, friends, vets, neighbors and anyone else your dog may come in contact with. And weigh the consequences that can result from your dog's actions. |
| I felt compelled to write about our experience with this kennel. The name Woodshadow Kennels came up today while having a home visit re: an adoption of a 5 year old male OES. We were looking for a companion for our 3 year old female OES and so thought we would look to rescue one. We were told that the male didn't like his head being touched and would "snap". The foster person brought him today and it became apparent that he didn't just snap but bites (he bit the woman while visiting us). There was no warning - she just touched his chin and he bit her. This is something my family can't take on. We might have considered adopting him if he gave warning signs but he would be just too unpredictable and so sadly we are withdrawing our application to adopt him. We were told that the dog came from Woodshadow Kennel so out of curiosity I looked it up. I didn't remember the name at first until I saw that the breeder (Woodshadow Kennels) was located near Chatham(Blenheim) Ontario. I then realized this was a breeder we had personally visited about 4 years ago when looking to get a puppy. After personally visiting Woodshadow Kennel we couldn't get out of there fast enough! He asked if we wanted to see "the boys" and took us to a dark kennel with small pens and the dogs acted like wild caged animals. There were a few very old OEG that were wandering around that had huge cysts on their bodies. The dogs didn't appear healthy or well kept. To us this place appeared to be one very small step above a Puppy Mill. I am sure that if anyone was to personally visit Woodshadow Kennels the same as we did, that they would do the same - high tail it out of there without looking back. There is absolutely no way I would consider getting a dog from this place. I think the only reason he has remained in business is that people buy from him without visiting and have the dog shipped. He is going on a reputation from many years ago that was established by his wife who I believe passed away years ago. Now that I have seen all these other posts it seems quite possible that the 5 year old male that we were considering to adopt that came from Woodshadow Kennels has aggression traits that came from its lineage and not necessarily as a result of treatment by the previous owners. I am happy to say that in 2011 we got an OES puppy from another breeder - Breton Kennels in Seaforth, Ontario. We also made a visit there before deciding to get a puppy. It was like night and day. The dogs at Breton Kennels were clearly loved and part of the family. The dogs/puppies were clean, very healthy and happy looking. I think now that instead of trying to adopt a rescue we will go back to Breton Kennels to get another one. So from this my advice to anyone considering getting a puppy (an OES or any puppy for that matter) is to see where the puppy is coming from. Make a personal visit to the breeder!  |
| I recently visited Woodsshadow Kennel and found Bill and his lovely lady to be very empathetic and caring regarding their dogs. I was the foster mother of the dog who bit at the home visit. I can honestly say that while their kennel isn't huge, the dogs are well cared for, and the dog who I ended up returning to them took to Bill immediately. The kennel is not as some folks would comment terrible, a little run down, yes, but CLEAN and the dogs were happy and healthy. Bill had a sweet old boy of 13 and another dog which was surrendered to the SPCA to which when he found out paid to get the dog back, that dog being surrendered because of having a type of alopecia, a sweet dog nonetheless. They have two indoor dogs who are delightful. Their home was impeccably clean for having a couple of sheepdogs. As with any owner surrender a rescue group takes the word of the surrender as fact.... however after fostering a lot of dogs (in excess of twenty) I know a dog doesn't just bite, there is invariably a reason which spurns it. My feeling is that this dog wasn't properly socialized as a puppy and became reactive out of fear which was not overcome. Unfortunately for this dog he was 85lbs and possesses a very strong jaw which when in fear can cause a lot of damage. Bill's dogs tend to be on the smaller side, males to about 60lbs and bitches 50lbs, which as Bill commented is a much more manageable size. Anyhow, in the end we felt that this dog was certainly able to rehabilitated however we as the rescue group do not have the resources to undertake and there are very few folks out there who have the experience or desire to undertake this. It was determined that this was a great solution over euthanization. Remember every dog is different and though this dog in question had a very high fear bite instinct it is not indicative of the other dogs or the Kennel in general. I would definitely agree with the last post, it is extremely important to visit the Kennel and it is also important to see both Sire and Dam prior to purchasing a puppy. Woodsshadow Kennels is a reputable breeder and in good standing with OESOCC. |
| What is the OESOCC? Also, if you read the breed standard for old english sheepdogs, the size of these dogs is way too small. Although there are no lower or upper limits, in order to do the work they were originally bred to do, they should be a bit larger. There is no weights suggested but there are height suggestions. |
| oesocc (owners club of canada) I find several things the last guest poster wrote to be questionable. Woodshadow doesn't fit the oesocc's definition of a reputable breeder for starters... Shellie |
| Why doesn't someone contact Bette Maxwell to get the other side of the story here? |
| We experience an ordeal very simular as you 8 years ago... We just lost our dog... He is the worst breeder of old english sheepdog!!! We paid full price and he did not register the dog to the canadian kennel club. Our Juliette had to have a major surgery for her lower jaw... Her legs also did not grow... She had also temperment issues... But we loved her!!! She was always happy. I hope one day this breeders is banish from the canadian kennel club. |
| Hello there. I wrote a few years back about my dog Muswell from woodshadow. I wanted to post an update because I am still so angry and disappointed we chose this awful breeder. Recently we ran into a woman who has always had sheepdogs and wanted to let our dog and we had to tell her no sorry... we got into a conversation and she knew all about Bill and his horrible kennel/ mill. We were young and didn’t unfortunately know better when we picked out muswell. That show Pick a Puppy featured them by the way if you can believe!! Well our oes is almost 9 now. We bought a house that has a small studio behind the garage and also a mushroom separate from the house when we have guests Over so we can avoid incidents. He can still be very very weird and we cannot fully trust him which was very stressful when we brought our baby home from the hospital in 2015. We have been very careful about compartmentalizing but now our son is older and knows not to pet our dog inside the house, put his hand near His face or Go anywhere near Him if he has food so it’s much more manageable but every day I am so upset about this. He wants to be a good boy and often is so fun and loving and we can have a great time with him but he can go to the dark side which we can see and then put Him in the Mudroom for some alone time. If he is sleeping, laying down etc you cannot go near him so he has to sleep downstairs since we cannot risk our son tripping over Him at night he would for sure bite, and not even knowingly. He has a good heart and it’s almost as if we can see he hates this other side of himself. No trainer would work with Him we tried so many and none could help it’s completely and obviously genetic. Has It been very stressful? Yes. Has it created so many arguments in our house? Yes. Do we love Him? Yes. I feel really sad since I would love my Son to have a dog he can play with insideThe House and have Sleep in his room and be his best Buddy and we have talked about a second dog (I would never get another OES after This experience) but we would feel badSince another Dog would have Privileges muswell does not and could come away with us and be in the House when ppl come over. I also don’t know if it would cause undue stress on him or maybe be good for him. He can be off leash on hikes bizarrely and is good with Other dogs and people outside when not at his own house if large open spaces although we still have to be careful and let People know what the can and cannot do with Him to be safe. Fortunately we have a great dog walker who can handle him also found a family friend who is a dog sitter who will stay with him when we go away and can deal with All the weirdness. We are managing but the unbelievable stress we have had makes me angry constantly and we can see how Much of an incredible family dog an oes would have been if we got him from another breeder. Are They still even around??? Anyhow if You read this steer clear. Forgot to mention we still have allergy issues, cysts and liver Problems to and since a young age. |
| Hi all, It's seven years later, and I put the original post together. Today Woodshadow kennels was featured on Pick a Puppy (a repeat from years ago) so we googled it and my post popped up. So sorry for not responding to the responses. Our dog is now seven, and we are about halfway through our sentence, lol. We have taken our dog to a few professional trainers, who had good ideas but it made it worse. We only walk late at night when we will not encounter many other dog walkers, because Daisy will lunge, snarl, and sound like the devil himself, jumping all over the place (we have a halter to control her face). It is really hard to hold her as she is very strong. We cannot allow her to be around people without a muzzle on, unless she has "approved" them. There are a few people who she is okay with, but even with us she gets crabby and growls and curls her lip at us if we pet her or even come near her sometimes. If you happen to lightly bump her in the night she will snap at you and growl. She has bitten three people so far. One dog walker (no injury, just got the pants), my son's friend (drawing blood from his finger) and a neighbour at our old house. We had to move to a house with a fenced yard, as she would get out and terrorized the neighbours by chasing them and barking meanly at them. We lock her up whenever anyone comes to the house, and we can't take her to visit any family. There is one kennel who luckily will take her but they almost canceled on us last time, saying they had enough big dogs. We can't take her on our annual holiday. Healthwise she has been okay, just a few anal gland problems. The behaviour specialist says she will always be limited because she is "too well bred" and very anxious, so she is ultra protective but can't turn it off. We call her our "special needs" dog, and she really does have special needs. She piles up her stuffies and sucks and kneads them every night, to calm herself. It has changed how we live our life, kind of isolated our family and cost us a lot of money. I had done so much research before purchasing this dog, but there were zero indications that we would be having these problems. She is very smart, makes us laugh, is mostly loving and sweet, but I will never get another because of this experience. I can't find the kennel anymore and I sure hope he has gone out of business. I know that everyone says to visit the kennel, but that isn't an option for many who want a breed that is not available locally. Thank goodness for the internet. |
| What a shame that you have had to go thru this type of thing. Unfortunately, the trainer probably gave you the wrong reasoning for her temperament. Temperaments are hereditary. Her actions are not due to her being "too well bred". They are due to her being "poorly bred". By this I mean the person who bred that litter didn't bother to research pedigrees & check temperaments on the dam & sire & relatives even further back. I hope in the future you can meet some other Old English & see what a joy a "well bred" Old English can be & not judge the breed itself on your experience thus far. Marilyn |
| Hi everyone. Wondering how everyone handled their dogs from Woodshadow? Our dog is still alive but we have incurred huge costs since haven’t been ever Able to take him to friends or families so always have To get Carefully vetted dog sitters And walkers who can handle him. We now have a puppy not an OES sadly since I have PTSD from Bills breeding and now sadly Realize how much stress having a strange aggressive dog has Caused in our lives. We are very Social and had to buy a house with a mudroom for our dog when ppl have visited or when ppl come to the door unannounced it has always caused tons of anxiety always letting people know the rules - don’t approach him, don’t put your hand near his face, don’t ever go near Him if he’s laying down etc. our Boy has a lot of love to give and it’s not his fault that woodshadow kennels we’re Awful dodgy breeders. I’m lucky we weren’t sued by the five ppl he bit before we began taking tons of precautions to ensure everyone’s safety especially my Baby who was born when our dog was five. We haven’t had an incident in years due to absolutely being cautious I’m still angry he did this because when we See the loving beautiful hilarious side of our dog we Know what his and our life with him could have a should have been. We Love him but it has come at a great cost - Bill passed away I read today so hopefully the breeding has stopped. |
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