Somebody back me up on this...or not
 ).
Any thoughts? Think he's just mad? |
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| I'd say give it a try for a short period in a confined room without the cage. The down side is that once you mothball the cage, you can forget about getting him in one later.
Barney got to the point that trying to push him into the cage at 50# at night was almost impossible. So one night I decided to let him on his own. It worked well. Since then I tried to get him to like his cage but putting toys and food in it. He would reach in to get his food or toys but if I came any where near it he'd back out and run. Now's he's outside during the day while I'm at work; If I have a late shift, I bring him in during my lunch break and put him in the kitchen so he doesn't bark late at night. He wanted to be trusted and he won my trust. I've really have had no situations where I needed him in a cage. When I travel with him he lies next to me on the front seat of the PU. I'm sure it would be safer if he was in a cage in the back. That the only down side, but I think some dogs and cages just don't get along together. Give it a try. |
I'm going to agree with George. I had the same sort of issue with Beaureguard. He's gated in the kitchen at night now or when I'm away for a few hours. He sort of chose that room for himself when he was younger. I'd let him run around the house while I was home and he would go in there by the door (or an air return) and take his naps. I'd find him sleeping in that area all the time. So, it was just a natural evolution to that being his "spot". He's completely trustworthy there....and really everywhere while I'm home. I'm not confident enough yet that he can be trusted while I'm away in the whole house. It will be a long time before that happens. Sorry...I'm beginning to ramble!  Anyhoo....I think you could try to leave him gated in a small area and see how that goes. |
| The funny thing is, he really doesn't hate the crate so much anymore. He doesn't love it by any means but he's grown to accept it and will go in when we ask. He's already out at night, upstairs with us. That was another thought that I had, maybe gating him in the same place he sleeps with us at night, giving him the hallway and the bathroom he likes to sleep in. Downside: the hallway is carpeted and he's all alone up there. Lucy stays downstairs and, although she isn't crated, it's not like he's all alone when he's in his crate. I gated him in the kitchen for a few days and he seemed to hate it. It was like he just wasn't comfortable there if that makes sense.
Although he's been great in the house, I can't leave Clyde and Lucy out together alone all day yet. I think Lucy would either snap or just go plain crazy from him bugging her. Aside from that, I know nervousness breeds chewing. Although he's never done it, I'm afraid of what would happen to my imported Danish furniture if he was bored or upset! It's just too expensive to replace if something were to happen and Clyde is very stingy and would probably not offer to help cover costs.
Sometimes it surprises me how much I worry about the happiness and mental stability of my dogs. Lol. Ask me again why I don't have kids... Well, he's in the crate today while we're at work. We shrunk it down so we'll see how it goes. I'll have an update this evening! |
| I wonder if Clyde just got mad because for a week he had tons of fun and a different routine with both of you home and decided when the fun and party mode died down he would punish you? I've noticed that after the weekends are over and Monday is here, Max is a total butt for a day or so. He misses all the attention he had over the weekend with the hubby and kids home! I'm home all the time, but things are considerably more quiet during the week and he has to get used to the workweek routine all over again. |
Oh, and on a related note, and I'm sure many of you will relate. It had been a long time since I had to give Clyde a bath at home. He's stayed relatively clean and the last couple times I just took him to the groomer. Wow, it's amazing how much more dog there was to wash! When he was a puppy and regularly peeing on himself, I could have him in and out of the tub with full blow dry in under 40 minutes. Last night I got him in the tub at almost midnight and 3 hours later, I still had a damp dog. A damp dog that ran immediately to sleep on my side of the bed! 
That was just a related vent. Thank you for listening. |
personss wrote: I wonder if Clyde just got mad because for a week he had tons of fun and a different routine with both of you home and decided when the fun and party mode died down he would punish you? I've noticed that after the weekends are over and Monday is here, Max is a total butt for a day or so. He misses all the attention he had over the weekend with the hubby and kids home! I'm home all the time, but things are considerably more quiet during the week and he has to get used to the workweek routine all over again.
That's what I was thinking/hoping. This weekend was all about Clyde too so it makes sense. I can't really blame him for doing it. I feel the same way about having to go back to work this morning. Maybe I'll go pee on something...  |
As for chewing outside, I can see your concern for the furniture. I have new siding on the house and was worried about Barney eating it. I provide him with his toys and an occasional marrow or rawhide bone and so far the only things he damaged is the wood on an old picnic table and the wood handle on the BBQ. I've sprayed these areas with bitter apple and that seemed to stop it.  |
ButtersStotch wrote: Sometimes it surprises me how much I worry about the happiness and mental stability of my dogs. Lol. Ask me again why I don't have kids...
 I know! I'm the same way!! There was a Dagwood comic about two weeks ago that portrayed this perfectly. He scolded their dog Daisy for something. She sulks in the next frame. The last frame is Dagwood holding Daisy on his lap, they're both crying and he's saying "I said I was sorry!!"
Made me laugh . Looked just like me after scolding Beau - only I'm the only one upset!! |
ButtersStotch wrote: This weekend was all about Clyde too so it makes sense. I can't really blame him for doing it. I feel the same way about having to go back to work this morning. Maybe I'll go pee on something...
Too funny! Let me know if it makes you feel better, though - you may be on to something! |
| Hee hee. After he peed on himself, I've got him in he tub telling him, "It's ok, nobody's mad at you, it was just an accident, don't be embarassed." Lol. Like he really felt that way. He was thrilled to be in the tub since it allows him to drink freely from the faucet! I have a really hard time not treating him, and my other dog, like little people! Well, little people with limited mental capacity. |
| Man, TOO many thoughts on this - where to begin??
First, I agree that these dogs are fully capable of thinking and reasoning and pulling stunts because of it. Like - I was out for so long before, why crate me now? I'll fix them!! Or - I went bye-bye yesterday and loved it, and now they leave me ALONE?? I'll fix them!! We're convinced that Drez know when it's Friday, because we usually go out to dinner after work on Friday, and she always parks herself at the back door so that we have to take her along. (She LOVES bye-bye, even if she doesn't get out of the car.) And she has done her share of peeing and pooping in the house when we don't take her, and we're convinced it's out of spite. When she was younger and we would leave her on the enclosed deck for a few hours while we were out, I can't tell you how many gates my husband had to replace because she would just grab the ballisters by her teeth and chew the heck out of them. Sometimes she would even remove the ballister completely so she could squeeze out into the yard. She'd never run away, thankfully, but I can't count the number of times we'd come home to find her sitting under the apple tree waiting for us. The other school of thought I've heard is that since dogs are such scent-driven animals, they don't realize that humans are not the same. I've been told that when they pee or poop in the house after being left alone, it's because they "think" the scent would draw their uprights back home, as it would them. They don't do it intentionally, they just want everyone back with them. Don't know if that theory really holds any water, but just another take on it. Just some random thoughts - no real solution. Just a "been there, done that." Good luck! Chris |
| I'm astounded everyday by how smart they are, I haven't been around dogs much since my childhood, we had a collie and an australian dingo. But these sheepdogs must have people inside them, sometimes I think he's a human with a sheepdog costume on. He feels incomplete unless his whole family is home with him, every morning when I drop the kids at school I take Max and every morning he cries while he watches the kids disappear inside the school! |
| I also think, and have seen, them act out like a toddler who didn't get their way, and I think that is probably what's going on with the peeing.
My girls have gone through this occasionally, and yes, it made me wonder also if it would ruin crate training forever for them too. It didn't. I know people will say if they pee in their crate don't let them have any blankets or anything to soak it up, but in my opinion. that just makes for a messy dog if it does happen. I'd rather have a blanket soak it up and less work for me. I haven't had that problem in a while though, and I don't think I did anything specific to get them out of that habit. It generally happens for a couple days in a row, and then stops when they realize it isn't going to change anything..... lol.... good luck! |
Willowsprite wrote: I know people will say if they pee in their crate don't let them have any blankets or anything to soak it up, but in my opinion. that just makes for a messy dog if it does happen. I'd rather have a blanket soak it up and less work for me.
Those people didn't have to bathe a pee soaked sheepdog for the umpteenth time. Lol. No thanks, I'll toss a towel in the wash machine over a dog in the tub. |
| Ok, my best suggestion would be to just go back to square one: you need to do crate training. First you put the dog in its crate for about 5 minutes with you sitting next to the crate (no talking, NO EYE CONTACT)...if your OES does happen to start whining you don't want to even acknowlege it with eye contact. Whining in the crate is your dog saying, "GET ME OUTTA HERE!!!!" So you want to put your dog in the crate and wait with him/her for a short period of time. If he/she seems ok, take him/her out and praise. If 5 minutes doesn't work, try 3 minutes or 2 minutes. Most importantly, you want to release your dog before they release themselves. So if your dog can be ok in the crate with your presence, try increasing the time. And when the dog seems pretty comfortable staying in the crate with you there, try leaving the room for short periods of time. Maybe the problems in the crate have to do with separation anxiety, and your OES is afraid that if you leave you won't come back. So, this is important...EVERY TIME YOU RELEASE YOUR DOG FROM THE CRATE, PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE!!!!"
Does this help? This is some good advice my trainer gave me. Best of training! |
| I forgot to add the update in here yesterday. Clyde is back on schedule and did just fine in the crate all day yesterday. I'm now further convinced that the change in routine was what set him off and now that he's back to how things were before vacation, he knows everything's fine. We did make the crate a bit smaller too so I think that further discouraged any peeing. My biggest worry was that he was permanently spoiled but it looks like I worried for nothing.
So all's well that ends well. He needed a bath anyway. James suggested that maybe Clyde peed on himself because he recognized that he needed a bath and wanted to hurry the process along!
Thanks to everybody who offered their two cents! |
| I don't think I would mothball the crate. You may have the "toddler tantrum" syndrome for a while but I think the crate should never be completely put away. Tasker is 8 and never really had a problem with his crate so it's easy for me to say. But, even though he spends most of his time out of his crate now I still keep it around and know that he's comfortable being in it when needed. We use it just enough so that when we MUST use it he's still comfortable with it. When he comes in really muddy or wet, I can stick him in the crate till he dries or I can clean him. Occasionally we have company that isn't comfortable with a big dog, he goes in the crate and still feels a part of things (rather than being shut away in another room). When he is sick it's easy to keep him confined in the crate. Also, heaven forbid, should your pup ever need to spend time at the Vet's he will be crated and it would be less traumatic if he still has at least a passing relationship with the crate.
Just my opinion though. |
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