Boots bit our two year old this weekend...twice ...
I had previously posted about the difficulties we were having with our 5 month old OES, Boots, when coupled with our 2 year old daughter. Well...this weekend, things hit a new low between them and now we're having to make some very tough decisions. Here's what happened: we were out driving for much of the day on Saturday. Our daughter in one captain chair behind me in her car seat...Boots buckled up in his dog harness in the other captain chair behind my wife. Early in the day, Boots barked at our daughter in the car and we asked what happened, and our daughter said that she had pulled his ears. We told her to never do that again. Several hours later, after we had taken an hour walk together, we were driving again, and he barked again...we asked what happened and our daughter said she pulled his hair. We told her to never do that again. Five minutes later, she reached out to pet him and he bit her hand. Then, yesterday, we were out...and came home and I had her give him a treat after he sat down to try and accustom him to think of her hand as a good thing. He took the treat. Then, she went to pet him a minute or two later and he bit her again (this time harder...didn't draw blood, but made her cry...whereas the first time didn't make her cry). Today, she came near him and he growled at her...so we put a muzzle on him for the first time, and she walked by him and he went after her aggressively (trying to bite her). We pinned him down and all three of us stood over him. He would growl as soon as my daughter was in sight. When she'd walk away while he was pinned, he'd be completely submissive to me and my wife...but would growl again as soon as we brought her back into view. He never backed down...and this went on for at least twenty minutes. We talked to our trainer and vet today and they feel that we need to work to find a new home for Boots without kids....so, we're all quite quite sad about this. They both feel that he could do very very well in another home, but that a home with small children is just not a good fit for Boots. Bottom line...for us this is terribly terribly difficult, because, 98% of the time, he's the friendliest, happiest dog... It's just the unpredictability that he's had around our small child (and with another on the way), our trainer just feels that we'll never be able to fully trust him around small children. So...this really sucks. I don't know that my wife will ever trust the OES breed again. And, that is really hard...since, for me the OES breed has become my favorite by far. I think we're just dealing with a particular temperment issue with this individual dog. If anybody knows anybody (that doesn't have small children) that would be interested in buying an AKC registered, microchipped, shot-updated, heartworm-free, potty-trained, crate-trained, mostly obedient to most commands, dog-friendly, adult-friendly 5 month old puppy named Boots, please personal message me. Thanks all for your support! This has been very tough for our family... |
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| I am sure there will many OES breeders and rescues responding to your thread... But, in the meantime, I am sorry you are going through this, but, might I suggest that you contact your breeder to see if she wants Boots or maybe she has a home he can go to. If you bought him from a quality breeder, please look at your contract. Most quality breeders require that you return the pup, not just try to find him a home. My breeder told me 2 things when I purchased Heart... #1~~ "This is like a marriage. We are both connected by this sweet puppy." #2~~ Quote from my breeder~~" Since I was responsible for bringing this litter into the world, I am responsible for making sure they have a safe happy home and if, at any time, you feel that you cannot keep her, for whatever reason...you must call me so we can discuss her future." If you did not purchase Boots from a reputable breeder ~~then I would suggest that you contact your nearest OES Rescue so they can evaluate him and place him in a furever home!!!! In the meantime, I would make sure that your daughter is not alone with Boots~~~ Please keep us posted on what is happening with Boots.... One more thing.....your comment about not being able to trust an OES with children bothers me a lot.....MOST of the OES here, from puppyhood to adulthood have been brought up with children. Personally, all my children were grown when Heart came to me. I have 5 grandbabies and she has been the best dog with them. Of course, I watch them play together just in case something would happen..(as with ANY dog)..They all love Heart and Heart loves them. So I agree with you as far as trusting the OES breed.  |
| Wow, I'm so sorry to hear that. I can't imagine what you are going through. It sounds like you are doing the right thing by rehoming him with maybe a family who is more experienced with the breed and doesn't have small children at home. I have my second OES and they can certainly test you 1000%! They are though the most amazing breed of dogs! It is unfortunate that your wife has a bad taste.... but, OES puppies are notoriously difficult. But, once they really mature, they are amazing dogs and amazing dogs for kids!! You may have been better getting a more mature OES by adopting one instead of a puppy. I'm sure others will chime in here, but, do you not have an agreement with the breeder about returning Boots should you need to re-home him? Most breeders insist on this.... If not, then perhaps you may want to talk to the OES rescue team for North Carolina to see if they could help you. Good luck! I'm sorry this is happening and perhaps you may want to try and older dog or just wait until your child is a bit older. |
| WOW! I am sorry to hear this. I certainly hope your daughter is ok!! As stated by others, if you got him from a reputable breeder, there should be something in your contract about the returning a pup. My first OES absolutely loved kids from the time she was a puppy. She loved babies. When my nephew was 5mos old and came to visit, loved him! She could hear his eyelids open and would run upstairs to greet him. Loved laying beside him when he was on the floor on a blanket and couldn't give him enough genle kisses. The breed is great and I agree maybe an older dog would be a better choice. Maybe when the children are older, you might consider an older OES who is tested. I wish I could take him but my budget won't allow. Good luck and I am so sorry you have to go through this. And especially you daughter . Nancy G |
| So sorry to read this for all of you. I know you've been struggling and tried very hard. It is a heartbreaking decision to rehome your baby, but it is the best for your family and Boots. Please do as the others mentioned, you deserve the peace of knowing that Boots is in a great home. Our breeder said as we parted that happy day, "Charm will always have a home here". I take great comfort in that. |
| I am so sorry to hear this, but you definitely have the best in mind for both Boots and your family. We had a wonderful mix, who suddenly attacked a neighborhood kid. Knocked her down and scared her, but fortunately he didn't hurt her. It turns out our neighbor's 4 year old would stand at our back fence and tease him mercilessly. By the time we figured it all out, the damage was done. He got a little better over time, but any kid who shouted suddenly or ran away from him was a trigger. With no kids of our own, we could control the situations we put him into. If we'd had kids though, it would have been a very different story. I hope your wife doesn't give up on sheepies - they are an incredibly wonderful breed. This sounds like it is a real cause-and-effect situation, and the trigger for Boots is set. I'm sure you'll find a suitable new home for her.  |
hey_bones wrote: . Here's what happened: we were out driving for much of the day on Saturday. Our daughter in one captain chair behind me in her car seat...Boots buckled up in his dog harness in the other captain chair behind my wife. Early in the day, Boots barked at our daughter in the car and we asked what happened, and our daughter said that she had pulled his ears. We told her to never do that again. Several hours later, after we had taken an hour walk together, we were driving again, and he barked again...we asked what happened and our daughter said she pulled his hair. We told her to never do that again. Five minutes later, she reached out to pet him and he bit her hand. Then, yesterday, we were out...and came home and I had her give him a treat after he sat down to try and accustom him to think of her hand as a good thing. He took the treat. Then, she went to pet him a minute or two later and he bit her again (this time harder...didn't draw blood, but made her cry...whereas the first time didn't make her cry). Today, she came near him and he growled at her...so we put a muzzle on him for the first time, and she walked by him and he went after her aggressively (trying to bite her). We pinned him down and all three of us stood over him. He would growl as soon as my daughter was in sight. When she'd walk away while he was pinned, he'd be completely submissive to me and my wife...but would growl again as soon as we brought her back into view. He never backed down...and this went on for at least twenty minutes. I don't know that my wife will ever trust the OES breed again. And, that is really hard...since, for me the OES breed has become my favorite by far. I think we're just dealing with a particular temperment issue with this individual dog. ... Let talk age of puppy, 5 months old, still teething and still learning. Aggressive to your 2 year old I dont think so, the growling is a WARNING to stay away and biting her is the after effect of the two year old not heeding the initial warning. Body language of a dog is all there prior to a nip at your 2 year old. If he was truly aggressive he would of taken a chunk out of the 2 year old. Your daughter pulls his ears and pulls his hair so he is very wary of her now and also there is no way I would have a 2 year old and a puppy strapped in together on the back seat of a car. At that age anything can happen with how the 2 year old is behaving in the back seat with the puppy. You cant see what she is doing and as we all know 2 year olds are in themselves unpredictable in there behaviour and have no idea of the consequences of there actions at that age. Now boots guard is up everytime he sees your daughter due to the above. OES under the right supervision with young children are wonderfull, supervision should be at that age 100% of the time especially around toddlers. My kids since babies have grown up with OES and I have not had issues with OES and young children. My kids have also learnt respect for them and when young total supervision of them when around the dogs not only for there safety but also for the dogs peace of mind too. You do have a serious and potentially dangerous situation starting to surface. My suggestion is if the breeder of the pup came from the OESCA referred and not a BYB breeder then first course of action is to contact them as majority of reputable breeders will want to know what is happening and help by either taking the pup back or helping to re-home him into a suitable furever home. If not from a OESCA referred breeder then as Nita said, please dont put the pup up for sale to re-coup money on classifieds or craigslist DO contact the appropriate OES rescue organisation that can help find a suitable home that is needed for boots if a trainer cant stop what is happening between boots and your daughter. In the meantime you keep your daughter away from boots until he is assessed, sorry too reading your post here I cant see any blame on the pup, he is giving off all the right warning signs when your daughter is near him, normal for any dog regardless of the breed because your daughter has obviously hurt him and all confidence there is gone from the pup around your daughter. Do think hard about your next step either with a trainer or re-homing before it turns into an all out attack on your 2 year old and her scarred for life. |
| I'm sorry... I'm going to be blunt. This puppy needs to be turned around quickly by being rehomed to a qualified and experienced person and one without children in the home. He's now repeatedly crossing a sacred line. He's displayed aggressive behavior toward both adults and children in your home and this will cost him his life. No one wants a biter. I've said this before... I'm not a trainer. I'm just someone who's lived with a pack for a few years and has raised 7 puppies of my own. I had a dog-aggressive-dog that bit my son twice on the thumb... once as a child and once as an adult (he teased her and I warned him... he got nipped and he deserved it because he didn't listen to either of us). I've also had some quirky dogs. So take this for what it's worth... This has become a very negative experience for your child. She's too young to understand that her behavior is inappropriate and that she's inciting this negative behavior from this puppy... yet you're forcing this puppy to tolerate it by setting them both up yet again. You're asking your 2 year old daughter what she did to get a negative reaction from this dog. She shouldn't even be sitting near that pup because you've said he's repeatedly gotten very nasty and tried to bite her. It's not the child's fault and really, it's not the dog's fault this time either. He will not tolerate your child and has proven this time and time again. You need to separate the two. Do not put them together again... you are asking for serious problems that will likely scar your child and kill this puppy. From the outside looking in and with no knowledge of where this puppy came from... The breeder should have been helping you all along in getting a handle on this pup's inappropriate behavior and also providing you with the best way to desensitize this puppy to his resource guarding and limits. After all, the breeder had a hand in creating this pup and also profited from him. As soon as this breeder saw this pup was not a match for your family, he/she should have immediately had you return him before things got this out of control. And things are way out of control. Your feelings about the breed as a whole are based on your one experience with this puppy who's turned into a challenge. And I can totally understand your feelings... there's anger, hurt, feelings of betrayal, disappointment, sadness because this dog has acted this way. What should have been a wonderful addition to your family has turned into a very negative experience. But there are great OES temperaments from all walks of life. I have some from "backyard" breeders, rescue and show breeders. Yes, even some "backyard" breeders get temperament 110% right. Despite causing her pain today by hyper extending her dysplastic legs, my rescue OES gave the doctors gentle kisses, wagged her too long stump and sought their kind pats immediately after it was over. This is a beautiful breed when you're matched with a dog that fits your family... it can be a nightmare if the match isn't right. It's why many of us here strongly stress buying a puppy from a responsible breeder. As Lisa is asking, please don't resell this puppy. If the breeder has been this out of touch and you don't have a contract, find someone who will work with Boots to get him to where he can be a better companion. Rescue is a good choice. I could be wrong but I think Boots can be turned around if he's placed correctly this time. Please give him the gift of being someone's pride and joy, not someone else's problem. |
| Thank you Lisa and Jaci. I didn't want to be the one that pointed out that the pup did not like getting hair and ears pulled and nobody listened. It will be hard but I think its best that Boots go to a childless, or older child home. In his young life he learned he can't trust a young child and with another one on the way its just setting him and yourselves up for disaster. |
| What worries me enormously is this is only a "5 month" old OES male. All these problems happening and not even hit the "Teenager" phase. Which we all know that is a challenging time in there developement, regardless of an evan temperament or not is a trying time. OES are late maturing in both body and mind. A fully grown OES especially a male which is heavier and more powerfull not learnt manners, lead controll, correct socialisation in the right home with the right teachings all this can only lead to disaster regardless of children in the home or not. Again please consider your daughters welfare and the pending baby on the way for the best welfare of boots and his life ahead, being re-homed in a nuturing OES experienced home and with people that can tackle his downward spiral at such a young age is critical and can be turned around, as I said in the previous post and not having personal experience with the dog, he is displaying normal behaviour as far as the ear pulling and fur tugging and who knows what else done to him is concerned. If he was totally, fully agressive he would of ripped your daughter to pieces. A baby dog still worth placing correctly if you care about his longtivity & future welfare, to live out his life in peace, being taught correctly and having a hassle free existence with being placed by those experienced (certified OES rescue Groups) in OES rescue for assessing and correct placement, before it turns into a disaster with the dog being put to sleep due to attacking children or even yourselves. Pam do speak up earlier with your thoughts, non of us will contradict that, I think a majority of us can see the "Red Flags" waving that there is a huge disastorous situation happening if not addressed sooner rather then later.  |
| I too feel that at such a young age, bigger problems can arise in the future. At 5 months boots can be still nervous,playful,stubborn etc...as he is just a baby himself. If the 2year old pulls his fur & ears and presumably makes lots of noise around boots? Boots probably growls as a warning as he is scared incase she pulls at him again. Your doing the right thing about trying to make boots feel safer around the child. But if in the future this carries on, boots could become danger to other children. Im not saying hes major aggressive, i think his so called "aggression" is through fear more than anything. x Hope everything goes well. Whatever you choose to do, im with you all the way. Sam xxx |
| Please contact the North Carolina OES rescue...Tar heel Oes rescue http://tarheeloesrescue.org/ They are great and not too far from you. My children were much older when we got our first Oes...5 and 7 and they knew I was in charge...I trained them probably more than Callie. I gate my two sweet, loving two dogs when grandchildren are over, they are almost 4 and 2...dogs don't know what to do when the girls are loud, excited or dancing...I prefer to take no chances. I let them together when I can only give 100 percent attention and they love each other...I am training the girls how to interact with dogs. It's tough raising babies with dogs...babies have to come first and once you have your second you will be sooo busy just taking care of both little ones, let alone training a puppy. Know it's hard as you must be attached but everyone deserves the best home and safety has to come first. |
| I don't want to be too blunt or rude here but I also don't want to waste words. You need to do a few things here. Either return your dog to the "breeder" so he can be evaluated by the breeder & placed or if your "breeder" won't take the dog back, contact an Old English Sheepdog Rescue group in your area. They will take the dog & evaulate him & place him in a suitable home situation. Then I suggest not getting a dog for your family until your children are a bit older & can understand what to do & not do with a dog. It is normal for kids to want to touch OES because they are so shaggy & cute & look like big stuffed animals. But no dog of any breed deserves to have to worry about having his ears tugged or hair pulled. This boy has already given you several warnings about how he feels about being treated this way. Unfortunately he can't speak. He's telling you nicely & you aren't getting his message. A bite breaks the skin. A nip grazes the skin but doesn't break it. He's been trying to tell you nicely. Sometimes you just have to wait until the timing is right to introduce a dog into a family especially, where children are involved. Even a properly bred, good OES can be ruined if children are not taught proper manners & treatment of a dog. It's a 2 way street. I always tell people to teach their children to respect the dog & the dog will respect them. We have placed many, many OES puppies in families with small children or no children who later on in the dog's life added children to the family & there were no issues. It takes the proper combination of many things: A well, bred OES bought from a reputable breeder who screens the family situation well, is there for back-up if training issues arrive & parents who teach their children proper behavior of a dog. Off my soapbox. |
| It seems that hey_bones is coming on the forum as 'hidden'. I am kind of surprised about this, since he wanted advice and guidance about his 'problem'. Is there a chance that he wanted someone here to BUY Boots?? But, since we are directing him to rescue, he is not wanting advice, but just a dog sale???? No one mentioned to him that selling dogs on this site is NOT permitted...... I really am not a suspicious person, but it makes no sense to me~~ If it were me, I would be responding to the questions that are presented on this thread~and trying to figure out what my next move will be??????~~ just sayin'..... |
| I can only re-iterate what the other guys have said. Please contact either your breeder if reputable or else an OES rescue. PLEASE don't try to him. I am sure you are only trying to do the best for Boots and your family but talking about selling him really concerns me. Boots needs help and I wish you and your family the best. OES are the best breed ever but they need careful training and a lot of attention. They are very bright, bouncy and lovable but they don't take nonsense. Sometimes with young children it is a hard ask to be training two troublemakers at the same time. Wishing you well. Debs |
| We've all got opinions on this but in the end, Boots is your dog to handle. So far only hands that have invaded his space have been bitten and he's displayed warning-off behaviors. He's run out of ways to tell people politely to stop pushing him. My concern is still for your child #1... tender, delicate skin and situations that often take place at a face-to-face level. That can quickly be addressed by zero child/puppy interaction until this puppy leaves your home. Keep the puppy contained in another room. Please consider this... I did a home visit for a dog with behavior issues. The woman didn't have children in her home and it sounded like she might be a good fit. After talking with her, I found that the dog would need to go to her friend's house during the day sometimes where there were children. She also wanted her new companion to go everywhere in public with her... as she did with the OES she had lost. It was obvious that she could not give this dog the home he needed and she would have been very disappointed if she had tried. The dog and everyone in the home must be a match. So... it's not just reselling Boots to a family that doesn't have kids. You need to be sure the buyer doesn't have grand children over frequently or socialize with families that have kids. Someone who will also be careful going out in public with him. If Boots is in the right hands, it may very well prove to be just a temporary thing... but for now the need is immediate until he proves repeatedly that he can be trusted. I understand wanting to recoup some money... this experience has cost you both emotionally and financially. But go back and read what you've posted... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37024&p=499713#p499713 . Even if you didn't have a child, would you pay whatever price your considering for the problem dog you described? Just the fact that you had a supposed dog trainer leave your home bleeding is concerning. His eventual buyer will likely end up at OES.org if they too have problems with him. Personally, I'd just write this unfortunate experience off as one that simply happened too soon for your family. I honestly believe Boots can get past this and become a good companion but some things need to be addressed right now and by someone who knows the breed and how to handle what's setting him off. I wish you all the best. |
| Thanks all for the thoughts and advice. This has been a very trying time for our family and I've been very very sad this last few days and am having a tough time snapping out of my funk. Sorry I'm only just now responding. I'm new to the forum and, in the past, I've gotten an email when a reply was posted. In this case, I received no emails, so I assumed no one had posted a reply...then, I checked 15 minutes ago and saw that there were a lot of replies. So, Val, no strange motives here...honestly, I didn't even know that selling a puppy on this forum was against the rules, but I wasn't trying to do that anyway. Just figured that some other OES-lovers on here might know of a good home, that's all. No worries. I talked to our breeder and she said she's willing to take him back and try to find him a good home, but I'm not really trusting her very much at the moment, so I'm going to try to find another solution. Also, she said she'd prefer that I just try to sell him to a home without children...she honestly didn't seem to care all that much (unfortunately, we've learned a lot about just how important finding a good breeder is through all of this). Our vet and trainer both recommended that I try to sell him to a suitable home and be very upfront about the issues that we've dealt with. They both said NOT to just give him away, as that can lead to a situation that is less than desireable...and that people who pay for dogs are much more likely to take good care of their pets. So, we're exploring that avenue now...but like some on here mentioned, it may end up being best to get him plugged in at Tarheel OES Rescue. We're still discussing as a family. As for Boots and our daughter, we're not allowing them any interaction now if he doesn't have his muzzle on (and always 100% supervised...which has always been the case, except in the car rides), and we're certainly not allowing them to ride in the car in the two captains chairs of our minivan together. Hindsight being 20/20, we shouldn't have allowed that to begin with, but we had never experienced a problem with it until Saturday...at which point, it was too late. The only aggression towards her up to this point was when we were dealing with food aggression and were introducing her into the training. Also, now because of his now negative feelings towards her, he goes into a full on attack mode when she comes near him. Not just tring to nip...certainly seeming to want to rip her apart. It's obviously very escalated, and we hate that it's gotten this bad. Now, we just want to find him a home that will love him and have the right family situation that will make sense for him...cause, like I said, he's so sweet so much of the time. Thanks again all. |
| What about an OES rescue they will find the perfect home. That was brought up here a couple times as well as info one one close by your area. Also I would highly recommend not doing this... "We pinned him down and all three of us stood over him." That probably isn't a good idea at all. He will become very fearful. Good luck you are very brave to ask for help, it cannot be easy when you invest so much love and care and things don't work out. I hope you find the perfect home for Boots. |
| Hey_Bones - As I mentioned in your initial post, we'll be happy to help you & Boots. I'm with Tarheel OES Rescue and just a few miles from you in Hickory, NC. You can private message me and I'll give you my number to call. Just click the PM button in the bottom left of this post box. I can answer any questions you have about the surrender and adoption process. Feel free to investigate us. http://www.tarheeloesrescue.org We absolutely want what is best for BOOTS and your family. We will work to ensure he is placed in a safe and loving environment that best suits his needs. Kind regards, |
| Sorry, hey_bones~~We have had quite a few people coming on this site to sell puppies, so, although my post was sincere, I can see it was not the case with you. Your breeder doesn't seem to care about what happens to Boots, which is very sad. Can I also assume that your breeder is not OESCA approved???? I know your vet is trying to give you his suggestions, but, in reading other responses here, you need to realize that if Boots goes to a childless home, that doesn't mean that children are NOT a part of their lives...nieces/nephews/ neighbors/etc.... If Boot's issues are not addressed, he may still be a threat or be threatened by children. That is where a good rescue group comes in. They have the experience, knowledge and behaviorist to draw from. They will not just place this pup, they will place him in a furever home...if at all possible. I know you want the best for Boots, so I suggest you call one of the OES rescue groups in your area. They may be able to help you decide what your next step should be. (Tammy is a gem!!! So, I really hope you contact her!) Again, these are just my suggestions. opinions....There are many forum members who know much more than me. |
| We contacted Tammy...and are in the process of working to find a new home for Boots via Tarheel Rescue. They seem like amazing folks and are being very supporting through this very unexpectedly difficult time for us. We only hope that we can one day adopt an OES (that is maybe not a puppy) that is proven to be stable with small children. Fingers crossed...because we absolutely fell in love with sheepdogs and aren't willing to believe that sheepdogs are like this across the board. And, no, the breeder is not OESCA approved. We had never even heard of that when we bought him. His parents seemed so sweet and so did he...he had all of his AKC papers, health guarantee, etc, and that was enough for us. Looking back, we've learned a lot about breeders, to say the least. In fact, when I spoke with the breeder this morning again about our problems, she said she'd prefer that I try to sell Boots as a stud dog, of all things! We were shocked, given the lack of patience he's exhibited compared with the experiences of so many of you... Obviously very irresponsible breeding of the OES line in Columbia, SC. Thanks again to all of you for your support and words of advice. Much appreciated. |
Oh, that was a terrible thing for the 'breeder' to say - very unethical...at the least!  I am so sorry you are in this situation.  Having an OES for a puppy and then adult dog should be a much better experience. I'm glad you are working with Tammy, she is a wonderful person. |
Bless you for doing what is right for Boots  I am sure Tarheel Rescue will be able to find him a very loving furever home......and when your family is ready they can help fit you with your perfect sheepie match. I am always amazed at how great sheepdog people are.......you and your family only add to that amazement. I hope you stay on the forum and continue to learn all you can about this wonderful breed. P.S. Tarheel Rescue will be receiving a donation from the proceeds of this year's sheepiepalooza in St. Louis next month. Boots will be in my heart as I am making my donation. |
hey_bones wrote: Looking back, we've learned a lot about breeders, to say the least. In fact, when I spoke with the breeder this morning again about our problems, she said she'd prefer that I try to sell Boots as a stud dog, of all things! We were shocked ..snip. Where is the drop into a dead faint emoticon when you need it?  you're doing the right thing. Kristine |
| So sorry that you are going through this. As hard as it is, you are doing what is best for you and Boots. Your kids need to be safe, and Boots needs an environment where he doesn't have to be anxious around small children. I am also horrified at the breeder's comments. Thank God he isn't going back there. Lord knows where he would end up.Hopefully someday you will find a sheepdog that is a better fit for your family. Best of luck to you. Laurie and Oscar |
| So very sorry that you are going through this. You are doing the right thing in this situation. I am also horrified at the breeders recommendation Best wishes to you and your family and I hope that you will experience the joy of owning a sheepie when you and your family are ready. |
| I fully believe you are doing the correct thing for both your family and for boots, i hope everything goes well for you whatever boots`s future may be. Sam xxx  |
| Very wise decision. |
| If he was in the UK I would of taken him on. Before we had Georgi (OESD) we have had labs & they are greedy when it comes to food. When I fed them & went near there food they would growl. So I made sure that I could take there food away anytime even a bone. I put the food down and they would sit there until I told them they could have their dinner ( I only done this once a month ) . So they knew I was in charge & if there was a issue I could take things off them. It was funny that when our Lab Lucy had puppies she would growl at Lori,Cleo & most people when they went near her puppies but I could pick them up & hold them & never had a issue. Anyway good luck on finding a home & when your daughter is older you could get another OESD. It's not that you have not tried. I think you have had bad luck & not too sure about this breeder as well. I think if you want a puppy I would ask advice from someone from here being honest & I bet your not the only person on this site who has had a puppy from a breeder who has not been 100%. Also you did do the right thing about your puppy on posting here. I know some people won't like this but its better to post on this site about rehoming your puppy. He could of landed in one of those puppy mills & you get guest on this site who would like a new dog |
| I had thought about Boots a lot and was going to suggest I would take him. Ask about air fair to send him to Minnesota. I would not buy him but I would give him a good home. I talked to a very wise woman and she told me to go for it because he would have a good chance with me. But b/4 I could respond, Tammy @ rescue had been contacted. I fully believe in rescue. Abbey, Amazing Grace(crossed the bridge last summer) and Oliver are all rescues. Oliver was very tough and from the beginning I KNEW something was off about him. I actually did the rescue of Oliver and was only going to foster him. He wasn't very nice at all. Constantly bearing teeth and would not look at me. At one point he turned on me and bit me in the face. After some soul searching, he did get another chance. With training, patience and love, he finally came around. Grace also took a major role with him and took him down on a number of occasions. He was 4 when I got him and will be 10 in July. It took so long for him to come around, many months, I kept him. Ok, Foster Failure. Today, he is the biggest goofball! still likes to show me his teeth, sometimes it is a smile, but he also will give me a kiss with his lip up. He is great with everyone and likes to play with other dogs. He and Abbey are keeping watch over some baby bunnies he found. when I held the bunnies, he was wagging his bum and giving them kisse. Also trying to smell their bums. My point is Boots is still a baby, a wolf in puppy clothing , and more than likely can be turned around. I know how hard the decision is but a good home will be found for him. Your child is more important. Nancy |
| I hope that you are able to turn him over to the rescue group fast. I would think that making him wear a muzzle all the time would add to his aggression issue. Also please wait till your children are older before you add any type of dog. We rescued Ryleigh from a couple who had 2 small children- 4 and 9 months. They just threw her in the back yard and left her-- even moved out of the house. The husband didnt like how "rough" she played- she was a baby herself! She was 7 months old when we got her- she could have hated kids or even adults with how she was treated but she doesnt. She loves all- young and old. My point--get the puppy to rescue ASAP before more damage is done to him. Im sure with proper traing and care he will be a great dog, once he learns not all children "hurt". My first sheepie was raised with my 5 nephews since they were babies. My sheepie was even born the day before my oldest nephew. We never had any biting issues. Yes they got nipped if THEY got rough but they learned. Thats the thing- your DAUGHTER needs to learn too. Its not just the puppy that needs to be taught. I hope he can find a home with older children. Sheepies and children can be a great mix if taught right from the start. |
| Thank you, everyone, for your concern. Boots is with TOESR now. He is happy, healthy, and under evaluation before making him available for adoption. |
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| Hope he can get the training he needs and find the perfect home. |
Beaureguard's Mom wrote: Thank you, everyone, for your concern. Boots is with TOESR now. He is happy, healthy, and under evaluation before making him available for adoption. boy i was hoping you would get him i know he is in great hands please keep us posted on how he is doing  |
thats wonderful news. Thank you for getting him.  |
That's great news, Tammy!  Thanks for helping. |
 Thank you TOESR!! It worked out well for everyone!! |
hey_bones wrote: We only hope that we can one day adopt an OES (that is maybe not a puppy) that is proven to be stable with small children. Fingers crossed...because we absolutely fell in love with sheepdogs and aren't willing to believe that sheepdogs are like this across the board. I feel very sad for this sheepdog experience you had, I am sure it was very very hard to let him go. I am happy to hear you are not giving up on sheepdogs though. The right sheepdog can be a wonderful thing for your family, and I hope the right sheepdog finds a home with your family someday.  |
| I'd also like to give kudos to Hey_Bones and his family. They tried like heck to get things to work with Boots and the family. Then, when they realized that they just couldn't risk any injuries with their daughter, they did the right thing by reaching out to a reputable OES rescue group. It takes strong people to realize that a situation is beyond their control and then do the right thing for the dog. Thank you, Hey_Bones and family for really trying and then getting Boots to a group that can help him flourish. I hope you find your perfect sheepie real soon. Please don't be a stranger on the board. |
CamVal1 wrote: I'd also like to give kudos to Hey_Bones and his family. They tried like heck to get things to work with Boots and the family. Then, when they realized that they just couldn't risk any injuries with their daughter, they did the right thing by reaching out to a reputable OES rescue group. It takes strong people to realize that a situation is beyond their control and then do the right thing for the dog. Thank you, Hey_Bones and family for really trying and then getting Boots to a group that can help him flourish. I hope you find your perfect sheepie real soon. Please don't be a stranger on the board. Ditto...you did do the right thing and I do hope that you will try again. I know this must have been sooo hard for you. |
| Bless your entire family, you did the right thing especially by your daughter and also the best result too for boots. I hope this has not put your family off the breed altogther, hoping when the time is right you will have another sheepie to fit your family to perfection to love and grow with as a family unit together. I do feel sad for you as you all tried so hard but just not from the correct place and still in shock the BYB said to re-sell him for stud You all did so well for boots and the welfare of your family, I admire you all for the very hard decision you had to make. Thanks to placing him with the appropriate resuce also, look forward to the future to hearing they can and will have this pupper in the correct home for his special needs. Thankyou Hey-Bones,your family are the best in everything and making the bestest choice for all concerned. |
| Yes - kudos to the family for trying - doing everything they could to make it work - and for realizing when it was in everyone's best interest to make the very tough choice to re-home Boots - and for contacting TOESR to assist them. He's in foster care and is doing quite well. He's playing with his foster sister and acting like a silly puppy. Smart fellow - adjusting well in his foster home.  |
| Thanks to everyone who offered help and encouragement through all of this over the last couple months! I just went through and read the many posts logged since the last time I was on here and everyone has been so kind! Tammy and her family are wonderful and I'm sure they're the best thing for him and will help to find him the place he needs to be. If my wife and I didn't have small children there is nothing that could have gotten us to part with him. We just loved him and were incredibly attached to him. But we had to do what we had to do... And it broke our hearts. Tears were definitely shed by all of us in my family a couple weeks back when Tammy and her husband came to pick him up. It was especially sad when I was standing on our front porch, holding my two-year old daughter, as she waved to Boots (who was buckled up in the backseat of Tammy's car) and, in a really sad voice, said..."bye-bye Boots." That's when I choked up. But, since then, we've all been doing a good job moving on...and our daughter frequently comes up to me and says, "Where's Boots daddy?" And then, she usually answers her own question with, "he's at Tammy's house...she's teaching him to be a good boy. She's a teacher, daddy."  |
hey_bones wrote: But, since then, we've all been doing a good job moving on...and our daughter frequently comes up to me and says, "Where's Boots daddy?" And then, she usually answers her own question with, "he's at Tammy's house...she's teaching him to be a good boy. She's a teacher, daddy." That is heartmelting. Sometimes kids see things so clearly, don't they. I hope that there is a dog in your lives one day that is a better fit for you all. |
| Good ending to the story. Gosh I feel lucky now, my OES, from day 1 was a gentle saint with babies, toddlers. Glad he's getting evaluated to be placed and your daughter has a positive attitude about what happened. |
I am all teared up.  |
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