Prong collar---our new training method....
We had a good 1st day and we all felt very comfortable with his manner and how he was handling Dahlia. He did put a prong collar on her after we showed him how horrible she was on the leash and if a person and dog walked by, that she would literally drag you off your feet. Holy  It was like night and day! Why have I never tried this thing before? It was like walking a different dog.does anyone have any bad stories about this collar that I should be aware of? I had never used one, and I can tell you, it really made a difference in our experience today. Was it a fluke that we had such a better time with the collar, or should I continue to expect good results with practice? We will be meeting the trainer again in 1-2 weeks.... |
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| I have used one with a great dane I had years ago. It was at the prompting of a trainer after seeing that a regular collar was not effective. We only used it for a short period of time once he got the idea that I was in charge. We were then able to switch back to the regular collar. I think they work well if properly fit and you get instruction on how to use the collar. |
I also used one on my 2nd St Bernard. She was BIG! The trainer told me to do it because Samantha was always bolting and dragging me across the room and up stairs. My hands would be bloody. There was even a kid in the 'audience that kept saying everytime Sam would drag me away, "There goes that lady again"  After the pronged collar, I was amazed at the control I had. Initially she showed me her teeth but then it was like an entirely different dog. She was great. I have used it on my golden a few times because she yanks and practically pulls my arm out of the socket and if I use the gentle leader she lays down and won't move. As much as I dislike them, they do serve a purpose. |
I used a prong collar when training our first OES, Quincy, while working with a professional trainer. At 4 months old, he was already 40 lbs  and a whirling, lunging dervish on the end of the leash. The minute he got his last vaccines, off to the trainer we went.  At first, the trainer tried a leather collar, but it became apparent that it wasn't going to work, so we moved up to the prong collar. Used properly, the prong collar can be a great tool, and sounds like you have a pro showing you the ropes. Couple of thoughts. Use it only when formally training, unless you are trying to work on a particular behavior in the house. Never leave a dog unattended or crate a dog wearing one. (A dog can get hung up on something in a second.  I have heard horror stories....) Do a correction within three to five seconds of the inappropriate behavior, or your dog will have no clue what the correction is for, which could be counterproductive and create unnecessary anxiety. (Same reason you don't punish a dog for going potty in the house. If you yell and carry on two hours later when you get home and see the mess, your dog has no idea why you are behaving that way.) Quincy also "outgrew" the need for it as he matured. As an adult, he wore it next to his regular collar when we would go for a walk, but the leash was actually hooked to the regular collar. On a rare occasion, if something out of the ordinary occurred to get him riled up, I would simply switch the leash to the prong collar to gain more control. I tried a prong collar with Oscar as a puppy, and it did not work for him. Even using the collar correctly, he started to do physical damage to his throat with his incessant pulling, so we switched to a Gentle Leader Harness, and TONS of treats. It took longer, but Oscar is also well trained. Good luck with your training. Laurie and Oscar |
| We used one on Sam. What a difference! After awhile the chain was relaxed, as if he knew it was there but didn't need it..........ha! He never got over this HATRED of the dead animal hauler (smell I'm sure) and would go balistic and of course we were always on a walk. Otherwise it was just there for emergencies. |
| All good advice! Used properly, it's a good tool... so just use it fairly. We sometimes need more than what a flat collar/martingale/gentle leader offers so we can avoid being dragged out into traffic and injured/killed. Some dogs are THAT driven. Quote: does anyone have any bad stories about this collar that I should be aware of? Note that prong collars can and have come unhooked... I had it happen once, several years ago. It just popped right off the dog. Consider using a backup collar like this and snap your leash on both it and the prong collar.  |
| Yes to the above. I really recommend using a little nylon slip collar (like Jaci pictured) as a safety backup. Any bigger of a collar will get in the way, but these little nylon ones are great. You want the collar to rest on her neck - there should be no tension at all when she is doing things correctly. A common mistake is for the handler to hold the leash up with enough force that the little chain part of the collar stands up....it should lay down on the dogs neck. You need to be ready, if she jumps are darts ahead at something, but otherwise it's only tight for just the moment of correction. Make sure you always give her the command or instruction when you are doing the training. Too many people fall into the novelty of the control the collar gives and forget to actually train. You want to be able to wean from it pretty quickly, so use the good behavior to really reinforce the command that matches the behavior and praise her. That way, when you start transitioning, she will hear the command (which she will already know, and what behavior is wanted  ) and go directly to the proper behavior and get praised. It works amazingly well.And for the transition time, you can put both collars on, and when she is "fresh" and hyper use the prong, but switch over to the regular (and I suggest a martingale or limited slip) collar when she's settled. If she regresses, a quick switch back will act as a reminder, then switch back again. This may happen back and forth several times, this is normal. I have a guy in my intermediate training class who has just made the transition over the past 2 weeks in class. They are doing great! (His dog is a young adult pit bull that they got as a 10 month old foster...he's a smooch, but he was SO energetic and strong he needed it.) I really think they could have transitioned awhile ago, but his handler was not ready!  They are planning on taking their CGC and Therapy Dog test in a couple months - and I'm pretty sure they are going to make it!  |
| Prongs are a great tool if used correctly. All above advice is spot on. Make sure it is fitted properly if you go to the leerburg site there is lots of great info. Prongs are best used to self correct Never use a harsh correction with one of these. I have used them on foster dogs for many years and on my female OES who is a little crazy when I take her into town. Yes it is immediate and makes you go wow!!!! |
| I agree with all of the above. If used correctly it's a great training tool. Teddy is a puller and has a strong prey drive. I started using the collar at about 5 months old and was finally able to wean him off of it totally at about 10 months old. I just use a hex link choke collar now. The prong collar really saves your arm and shoulder while you are trying to get them trained. Good Luck!  Cindy |
| does anyone have a picture of one of these collars? I think I need one for Angus....he is a puller and anything that moves....I am quick to be following him and not by choice! |
4 my OES wrote: I agree with all of the above. If used correctly it's a great training tool. Teddy is a puller and has a strong prey drive. I started using the collar at about 5 months old and was finally able to wean him off of it totally at about 10 months old. I just use a hex link choke collar now. The prong collar really saves your arm and shoulder while you are trying to get them trained. Good Luck! Cindy Ditto |
| http://thelifeofroyal.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... -neck.html |
| Being honest looking at them I would not use one. 1. Don't like the look of them 2. Would worry if I hurt the dog 3. Would not need one as I can pull the dog back on a normal lead I just added a link before not because of the artical but it had a pic of one. I think in the right hands its ok but need another lead with you as you cannot used that on a long walk |
| try this site it is much better http://www.prongcollar.org/ |
Parwaz wrote: Being honest looking at them I would not use one. 1. Don't like the look of them 2. Would worry if I hurt the dog 3. Would not need one as I can pull the dog back on a normal lead I just added a link before not because of the artical but it had a pic of one. I think in the right hands its ok but need another lead with you as you cannot used that on a long walk To the contrary................properly fitted & with a small amount of instruction, this is really a more humane & safer way of teaching a dog how to walk properly on a lead than using a buckle collar or choke chain type collar. This type of collar puts pressure evenly around the neck & the dog corrects itself rather than the human pulling on the lead & the other collars putting pressure only on 1 area & possibly damaging or collapsing the trachea. Within a very short time the dog learns exactly how much pressure it can exert before a correction happens. The dog learns that walking or even trotting can be enjoyable without going "gung-ho" forward & his human is happier too. I have used this type of collar at times when I had a forger. I have also used this type of collar when I walked 2 OES at 1 time on 1 lead. Keeps each dog moving at the same pace rather than one moving faster than the other & dragging the other one along at an uncomfortable pace. Put the collar around your forearm & gently pull on it. You will see it exerts pressure evenly & isn't nearly as bad as it looks. The key is to have a knowledgeable person show you how to fit one of these collars & the proper way to use it. It is for training only or for walking them in tandem. Once you are done with the exercise, the collar comes off. Dogs will learn that they can walk properly then with any kind of collar. My collar of choice is a diamond cut slip choke but I have at times resorted to using a prong to train & then went on to the diamond cut slip choke. |
| I really appreciate everyone's comments about this collar. I had never in my life used one of these with any dogs and I had pre-conceived ideas that this wasn't a good way to go.... but, boy, was I wrong. I am very happy to have a new trainer and he spent the time showing us how to put it on properly and how to use it and how to even take it off. He had both of us put the collar on Dahlia and take it off while he was with us, to make sure we were doing it correctly. In just a few days, we have seen drastic improvements in her walking on leash. I can now comfortably take her on my exercise walks without having to worry about my arm dragging out of my socket and having to re-correct her by pulling at her and tugging at her. I hated doing that. Now, she walks so proudly and right by my side. It is a bit of re-training, but, she is only 15 months old and re-training her isn't difficult.... it is really retraining the uprights that is the hard part  We only keep the collar on her for walking and training exercises. We take it off of her when she is lounging in the house and at night... So far, I am very impressed. I could just kick myself that I didn't try this sooner! I could have saved a lot of frustration and arm pulling, yanking, and have been properly walking her by now! Oh well.... Never too late to learn. I also am very excited to show my in-laws this tonight when we go over there. They frequently watch Dahlia and I am always so afraid that she will hurt them by pulling too hard.... Now, this should help with that worry! She is a very strong 80lb girl with strong muscle tone----she does a lot of hiking up hills, so her legs are very powerful....and could literally drag you off your feet. This new prong collar truly is a life saver!  |
NJ_Sheepie wrote: I really appreciate everyone's comments about this collar. I had never in my life used one of these with any dogs and I had pre-conceived ideas that this wasn't a good way to go.... but, boy, was I wrong. I am very happy to have a new trainer and he spent the time showing us how to put it on properly and how to use it and how to even take it off. He had both of us put the collar on Dahlia and take it off while he was with us, to make sure we were doing it correctly. In just a few days, we have seen drastic improvements in her walking on leash. I can now comfortably take her on my exercise walks without having to worry about my arm dragging out of my socket and having to re-correct her by pulling at her and tugging at her. I hated doing that. Now, she walks so proudly and right by my side. It is a bit of re-training, but, she is only 15 months old and re-training her isn't difficult.... it is really retraining the uprights that is the hard part We only keep the collar on her for walking and training exercises. We take it off of her when she is lounging in the house and at night... So far, I am very impressed. I could just kick myself that I didn't try this sooner! I could have saved a lot of frustration and arm pulling, yanking, and have been properly walking her by now! Oh well.... Never too late to learn. I also am very excited to show my in-laws this tonight when we go over there. They frequently watch Dahlia and I am always so afraid that she will hurt them by pulling too hard.... Now, this should help with that worry! She is a very strong 80lb girl with strong muscle tone----she does a lot of hiking up hills, so her legs are very powerful....and could literally drag you off your feet. This new prong collar truly is a life saver!  Before long, she will be walking with you on a regular slip choke & you will wonder if it is the same dog from months earlier! I felt the same way. I had a very dominant, powerful girl for my 1st show dog. My instructors at class suggested this collar to me for training puposes only. It worked wonders with her. |
| Just to give everyone an update....We are doing really well with the Prong collar. Yesterday, we had our lessons outside in a development with a ton of distractions... Cars, people, dogs being walked, children playing etc.... It was such a great lesson because we really worked on Dahlia and ME and by the end of the lesson, we were both exhausted. There are 2 trainers and one of them grabbed a couple of golden retreivers to help with the lesson and I was very pleased at the end. I feel we have made great progress in a very short time. All in all, she just wants to play with everyone and every dog she sees, but, she needs to learn there is a time and a place for that, and we are both adjusting to the new training methods. She sticks that big sheepie butt in the air and trys to hop along  |
| The prong collar looks like a torture chamber! But, I've used one for years with all my sheepies. I recommend you get it fitted and learn hopw to use it. And if you are worried byt its "looks", I recommend you put it on yourself and have someone else lightly pull to see how it feels. I would NEVER use anything on my dog I was skeptical about without trying it out on myself first...I actually put this on myself to see how it felt for my dog before I ever would dream of using it on him... The prong collar is NOT meant to stay on. It is ONLY for training and walking. Do NOT leave it on the dog in the house in place of a regular collar...Do not allow the dog to run free outside with this collar on either. And please, learn how to use it. "Corrections" on a prong collar can hurt the dog if you don't know how to sue it... In trained hands, this collar is great. In the wrong hands, it could be extremely harmful... |
Ashley wrote: The prong collar looks like a torture chamber! But, I've used one for years with all my sheepies. I recommend you get it fitted and learn hopw to use it. And if you are worried byt its "looks", I recommend you put it on yourself and have someone else lightly pull to see how it feels. I would NEVER use anything on my dog I was skeptical about without trying it out on myself first...I actually put this on myself to see how it felt for my dog before I ever would dream of using it on him... The prong collar is NOT meant to stay on. It is ONLY for training and walking. Do NOT leave it on the dog in the house in place of a regular collar...Do not allow the dog to run free outside with this collar on either. And please, learn how to use it. "Corrections" on a prong collar can hurt the dog if you don't know how to sue it... In trained hands, this collar is great. In the wrong hands, it could be extremely harmful... Same thoughts here. Originally I had thoughts of my own that they were inhumane. Cooper was a puller no matter what we did, even the hubbie had trouble holding him back. I was taught how to properly use the collar and it was instant success! We only used it on Cooper's walks or to the vet's office. Didn't need it in our backyard and never was on him in the house, it was slipped off as soon as we got inside. I am a believer in the collar as long as used properly and never used as a punishment, ever! Oh, by the way, we tried after a while to just let it sit on his neck and have a lead attached to his everyday collar but he was smart. He knew when the lead was not attached to the prong collar and would start with the pulling so then the leash was put back on the prong collar. If need be I will use the prong again with Samson, (when he is grown up) though he is walking pretty nicely now on a regular nylon slip lead. |
| When anyone turns up their nose at the sight of my dog's prong collar, I take it off the dog, put it around my own neck and yank on it pretty hard and repeatedly. It really surprises them. Then I explain that it's just like lying down on a bed of nails, the pressure gets spread on the many points, it is just slightly less comfortable. Then I also explain that in a regular collar my dog can pull until his throat is crushed and/or our arms are pulled from the sockets. |
| My Mom used a prong collar with her Rottweiler for her own safety walking a 135 lb. dog that pulled on the leash. Her dog responded immediately and didn't tug. No tugging means they aren't being restrained with the prongs, so it's like any other collar. It looks ugly, but I even tried it on. It wasn't that bad plus they have fur padding. You shouldn't have to keep tugging hard or I'd try something else. Do what works for you. My OES is a puller. I put a body harness on him, and hook a lightweight, strong rope with hiking hooks to his halter, and the other end around my waist. We look funny, but it really works. And hands-free is a bonus. I go running and hiking up to 10 miles w/ him this way and minimal pull. Although I say "go for it" when we're going up hill and I get a free ride like huskies and a sled (yes it's a good thing when I'm tired). Choke collars, (like he one pictured) or those halties never worked for me. The chokes only work if you have it hoisted way up to their chin (very effective then), but that means readjusting it every 5 seconds as it slides down. No thanks. |
Ron wrote: When anyone turns up their nose at the sight of my dog's prong collar, I take it off the dog, put it around my own neck and yank on it pretty hard and repeatedly. It really surprises them. Then I explain that it's just like lying down on a bed of nails, the pressure gets spread on the many points, it is just slightly less comfortable. Then I also explain that in a regular collar my dog can pull until his throat is crushed and/or our arms are pulled from the sockets. You need to get a photo of yourself doing that..LOL But I do agree with you! |
| Prong collar - As mentioned above, it must be fitted and used properly. NEVER leave it on the dog unattended. Yes, excellent to use a back up collar too as I have seen the clips come loose and then you have NO collar on the dog & it is running free which could lead to a catastrophe. I have seen more injuries (crushed trachea) from misuse of "choke chain" collar than prong. They have their use, in particular if you can't find another technique that teaches the dog to stop pulling your arm off & need to use a prong collar temporarily in order to get to the point of using a less aversive training technique. That said, I don't like them and I don't use them. I tried one many years ago. Yes, it did seem to work "like magic" and the dog stopped pulling immediately. But, the bottom line is that when you use one you have now resorted to physical control of the dog (it's like "power steering" if you will) because the dog will respect the prong collar because it makes it very uncomfortable for the dog to pull. If you need to use this to start training in order to make any progress in training the dog to heel nicely alongside you, it may be a good idea. With this breed, they are fairly large before most folks begin training them, unfortunately. It is much easier if you begin training (not necessarily strict, formal obedience training - but just walking together without them pulling you or you yanking on them) when they are only a few months old. But hopefully you can reward the good behavior the dog is now presenting to you and eventually transition to a regular buckle collar. That to me is how a prong collar would best be used. I don't want to have a relationship with my dog that is based on avoiding discomfort. I want the dog to WANT to please me in a partnership and hopefully I will be able to teach them what it is that I want properly and reward the correct behavior. In the end, I am all for whatever works for you. Especially if it means you and your dog are out doing things together as a result. I just see the prong as a possibly necessary step but a temporary one leading to a transition away from the prong. Just my opinion. I am not a professional trainer. Linda Zimmerman & Hudson, Chloe & Kristy |
| I guess my million dollar questions is: So how do I get her to stop pulling without a prong collar? She's young now, but growing so fast, and she's a total puller. I don't want to hurt her. What's the best method to stop the pulling? |
SamHeinous wrote: I guess my million dollar questions is: So how do I get her to stop pulling without a prong collar? She's young now, but growing so fast, and she's a total puller. I don't want to hurt her. What's the best method to stop the pulling? When Dahlia was younger, we did a lot with treat training. We would hold a high value treat or even a wooden spoon with peanut butter on our left side and she would stay right on it.... This failed when she got bigger and stronger, but, it worked for a long time. Dahlia is just a puller. The prong collar was seriously our life saving item! Even my elderly in-laws can walk her safely and comfortably with the prong collar. I don't have to worry about her pulling them down or something. How old is she now? Maybe you can use the prong collar? I know some people here started much younger with their pups then I did and I felt I wish I would have known sooner and life would have been better earlier! |
She's just four months, and not really food motivated. I tried the treat thing a few times, but honestly, she could give a flip. I guess nothing is more enticing than trying to get me to land on my face  |
| Some dogs are not that interested in treats. Some are more interested in toys. Others want more than anything attention and approval from you. I would try to "build" more treat value if you can. It will be useful down the road training/teaching Ava other things. One way is to offer more wonderful treats and another is to offer them at a training session when the puppy is hungry - like just before feeding time. You might have success doing that by "upping" the value of the treats to something she wants more than what you've been offering. My dogs' favorite treats are: BilJac treats (M & M size round treats), "Real Meat" brand - they have different flavors - beef, lamb, venison, Solid Gold training treats or Plato brand Salmon treats. All are tasty and more importantly have lots of smell which dogs tend to like. You can find them online if your local pet retailer doesn't carry them. I've also used a package of plain beef jerky from Trader's Joes once in a while for a dog that wasn't that interested in treats. If you offer treats while walking (I use the right hand if puppy is on the left leg side) it should sustain Ava's interest in keeping by your side. Or try a favorite toy. Sometimes playing with you is what the puppy responds best to but often if you just keep on trying different treats until you find one the puppy really, really loves, they'll "turn on" to treat rewards. Linda Zimmerman & Hudson, Chloe & Kristy (yes, we have yummmmy treats @ our house but we like the SALMON TREATS best!) |
| I have seen "pullers" trained very quickly. VERY quickly. It works on many but not all. The way I've seen them trained is like this: It starts with "regular" leash training. You have them on a 8 or 10 foot leash, preferably at a heel, sitting by your side. You begin to walk (left foot first). Here's the part for pullers: As soon as they stop paying attention to you, you reverse course without warning, letting the leash get tight. Don't speak, don't give a heel command, just change direction. After just a few times, the dog realizes that you are now unpredictable, and s/he must pay attention to you. If you do this regularly, it may help. I believe that this approach would have worked with my dog had it been applied by the primary dog walker in the house. HOWEVER -- if there is a strong incentive, a distraction that can cause your dog to forget that you're on the other end of the leash and you don't have perfect voice command control of your dog you can still wind up being dragged. So it's also a safety backup anyway. Mulligan is happy on his walks, doesn't pull at all and his mother is happy. I really don't see a downside... then again, I guess maybe I don't see how great our relationship could be if we weren't using the prong . Who knows. |
| Yes Ron, that is how I was taught to teach a dog to heel also. It is a tried and true method and it does work. And here is another slight variation of Ron's suggestion to just turn and go the other way. As soon as the dog or puppy begins pulling at all on the leash instead of walking nicely "with" you (not necessarily in strict heel position at least at first, just staying up with you and not pulling or lagging and paying attention to YOU, not what THEY want) I JUST STOP MOVING. Come to a sudden halt and just remain in that spot. You can either call the dog back to your side or just wait until they notice you are not moving and they decide to come back to you. Then when they do that, praise or praise/treat and then move forward again. Be warned: this method takes INFINITE PATIENCE. I have at times taken 20 minutes to walk the length of our 50 ft. driveway using this technique. Do not attempt this when you need to be somewhere at a certain time or get something done in an allotted time frame. But in my experience, it won't take long for the dog to "get" that the fun abruptly stops when they are away from you and the fun begins again as soon as they return. You might want to try this for just a few minutes every day or so. This is not for everyone. You have to adopt a certain mind set and stick to it. I've been very successful with it, though. Once they get the concept, it's all uphill from there. And a side benefit is that you are setting the tone for your relationship with your dog to be one of benevolent pack leader. One obedience instructor told me that I was "about as interesting as dirt" to my dog and that is why they were not paying attention to me. Why should they, he said. You are not interesting and you are not fun. So ever since I have tried to keep an attitude of fun and play uppermost in any training I do with my dogs. It works well for both of us! Just another idea to keep in your "bag of tools" for training a dog to keep from pulling or lagging while at your side on a leash. Not all things work for all people or all dogs. Linda Zimmerman & Hudson, Chloe & Kristy |
| Linda, I use both methods (what Ron and you described) I use what you described more for puppies who are just learning the ropes, and Ron's method more for adult dogs. They operate on the exact same principle: aversive IF dog isn't paying attention (whether getting a yank on the collar with the direction change, or one from handler coming to a stop, as most dogs really, really want to keep moving), followed by praise and/or cookies when they catch up with (come back to) you. I actually find "Ron's" method more motivating for the dog, mainly because (1) OES like to be kept on their toes and (2) they are motion driven dogs (mine quickly come to see it as a "chase" game) Mind you, it's an old Kohler method - and he may have stolen it from someone else for all I know - and by that "pure" methodology you are not supposed to reward the dog when the dog catches up to you in heel position, the reward is supposed to be the avoidance of the aversive, but I prefer to add in praise ("what a SMART puppy!") because I find I get better attitude and quicker compliance. They're both powerful tools, though. Thanks for the reminder. Heading off to an agility trial in a little while. I'm not entered as I'm not comfortable with the flooring for my dogs, but there are four OES entered so I'm going to cheer them on and bringing Becky for the socialization/training. A good opportunity to work with her on this. And, Ron - Mulligan and Joan - if it ain't broke....Chances are Joan feels confident that she can handle anything with the prong on and that confidence gets projected to Mulligan who is calmer because he knows she's in charge and so he doesn't have to be. At that point, yeah, the prong could certainly have been weaned, it's really just there for show. But it's not hurting anyone, so...Like Linda always says - you do what works for your dog. Kristine |
| I've done the "no forward progress" a LOT with Biscuit. He's a big lab, and strong and has absolutely no pain receptors (apparently - as he jumped a 4 foot fence with a dislocated shoulder several years ago - totally no pain response from him at all)...crazy dog. I have just worked him on a plain martingale, as the prong or anything else would make little difference to him. Some days it takes a LONG time to get anywhere, but it really does work. Having him pay attention and notice the human is the key. And he really is a sweet tank...just not that bright. |
| Dawn, we are trying this method with Gracie. When she is pulling for all her little might, should I just stand there until there is a little bit of slack or do I wait until she comes back beside me? Am I saying anything to her while she is pulling and I am standing still? I can't wait until I don't have to walk down the street looking silly by taking two steps then stopping. |
Mady wrote: Dawn, we are trying this method with Gracie. When she is pulling for all her little might, should I just stand there until there is a little bit of slack or do I wait until she comes back beside me? Am I saying anything to her while she is pulling and I am standing still? I can't wait until I don't have to walk down the street looking silly by taking two steps then stopping. For me, I kind of do a bit of each.....depends on the circumstance, and likely my mood too. I want at minimum a "give" to the pressure, and would also like a look back at me to acknowledge. That would be for plain walking. If they feel the end of the lead (no matter how long it is), they need to give and not continue to pull. If we are actually working on the heel command, then I am a total stickler for dog's shoulder even with my left leg - so that means they need to move all the way back into heel position before we move. As far as talking or a verbal command - I do mix it in, because eventually I want this behavior to translate to off lead as well. If it's only your body language and the leash/collar doing the "talking", you are missing one of the tools (your voice) that you could be using. |
| The annoying thing is that she is better off lead than on, as is Mady. I have been waiting for her to turn and look at me. She gives me this 'why the heck are we stopping, Mum?' look as opposed to an 'I am so sorry for pulling, Mum' look. |
I get the same thing. We stop so so so much and I am not convinced Pru is learning anything. She just pulls again seconds after continuing. I am sure it is my technique, patience, or a multitude of other things, but I cannot seem to get this one right.  |
| Sent you a message, Tif! As far as the behavior not working...odds are someone, sometimes, is letting her get away with pulling. It only takes one lapse...as hope springs eternal! Also, these are young dogs, with lots of energy and shorter attention spans. On their minds, it's still easier to bust ahead and hope it works! And if it does, they are going to try it again.....and again... One other thing you can do, if they are being particularly pesky about it is to turn sharply into/away them and go 180 the other way. The into them works if they are real close - you can actually walk into them and tread on them (safely people - gauge this to the size of the dog!) This is for when all the nagging in the world is just not registering. It usually only takes once. This is only when they seem to be totally ignoring you and blowing you off. This gets followed IMMEDIATELY by praise, and use the attention you just got to do positive things. It's never meant to be mean, or to vent your human frustration. |
I just wonder why ????? the prong collar along with shock collars have been banned here and elsewhere in the world for a long time  Not saying this is wrong, just wondering why so MANY countries have bannned both types  |
| Interestingly shock or e-collars are only illegal in some states in Australia. They are not illegal in Victoria, but they can only be used with a vets certificate (and maybe a trainer, I can't remember) saying the owner has tried everything else. |
Mim wrote: Interestingly shock or e-collars are only illegal in some states in Australia. They are not illegal in Victoria, but they can only be used with a vets certificate (and maybe a trainer, I can't remember) saying the owner has tried everything else. Will they also allow prong collars under those circumstances? A heck of a lot safer than an e-collar. Kristine |
| I too was leary of prongs Never used one.UNTILL many years ago I decided I knew enough to take on the 100lb german shepherds that had been tied out on a 3 foot tie out for the first year of their life. (I really know more now than I knew then but hey it worked out) I was yanked , battered and bruised so I began my reasearch starting on this site leerburg.com then I read this study You're going to get a million different people telling you how bad prong collars are. While I have to agree that they look barbaric and inhumane, they are are actually safer than a choke collar when used correctly. There was a study of Prong Collars in Germany some time ago and the results were as follows: 100 dogs were in the study. 50 used choke and 50 used prong. The dogs were studied for their entire lives. As dogs died, autopsies were performed. Of the 50 which had chokes, 48 had injuries to the neck, trachea, or back. 2 of those were determined to be genetic. The other 46 were caused by trauma. Of the 50 which had prongs, 2 had injuries in the neck area, 1 was determined to be genetic. 1 was caused by trauma. Then I went to a qualified trainer who showed me how to properly fit and use a prong. I have not had to use one on any of my dogs except my prozac girl molly and only when we are walking in a busy city She wants to herd cars. We live in the sticks so she is great on our farm but I have not been able to stop this behavior in the city We have no cars come by the house!!! and a back up collar is a must because before I was given this advice I had a hugh shep with a hugh prey drive get off one Thank goodness he loved his ball and I threw it into the training fenced area and slammed the gate!!!!! and leerburg.com taught me how to use a muzzle Yes I have had sheepdogs that were dog aggressive and it is a great tool Once they know they cannot bite It makes it easier.(sometimes) I could teach house manners and housebreak without having my dogs would be eaten This is just my two cents and if you don't want folks seeing the prong put a bandanna over it |
| PS some dog events we go to do not allow prongs on dogs |
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