Aggressive Behavior in my 5 mos old sheepie, Barkley Blue
~cece |
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| Nipping and biting are not aggressive behavior in a 5 month old pup...its normal. They are teething and growing new teeth. |
| My puppy is not quite 5 months old and he is still getting new teeth. My vet told me to expect the teething to continue until he is at least 6 months old. Also, my vet recommended not having him neutered until he was at least 6 months old... although, I'm not sure the reasons for that - but I know that's the norm in the area where I live. We crate our puppy at night as well (except on the weekends, he does get to wander). How long are you crating him for at night? Our puppy can really only go about 7-8 hours MAX. Any longer than that and he's crying and scratching to get out. Also, I find that during the day, he can't go quite as long (I think because he's awake more) - so he only can hold it about 5-6 hours during the day... and that's kind of pushing it. My vet recommended doing "respect" training - which requires a firm but consistent hand. Nipping and biting is normal teething behavior - but if Barkley lunging at you or growling or being otherwise aggressive, we lay him on his back and hold him there until he completely "submits" - which means his legs get all floppy and he starts to relax (one key: make sure that he's not craning his neck around to look elsewhere - if he's seeking escape then he's not submitting). Once he's relaxed, you should be able to pull your hand away and he should stay and not move until you tell him it's okay. This training has worked well for us and has created regular "alphas" out of me and my husband. Just remember to be careful - he's still a puppy and while you must be firm, you must also be careful not to hurt him. I hope that helps. I'm a new dog owner too and I'm definitely learning as I go. |
| Thank you for your great advise...I will try the "respect training"..he is a strong little guy and it may take both my husband and myself to handle him. I will begin tonight and also try to keep him out of his crate as late as possible..I know he is still developing and his bladder can only hold so much. Barkley is lunging and growling..it takes all the restraint I can handle to not smile and laugh..it such a cute growl..but I will take this training seriously. I believe I have an alpha on my hands...we'll see how it goes..again, thank you for your helpful advice. |
I got both of my OES as puppies, and both were terrible nippers, Oscar worse than Quincy. (Oscar's nicknames: Pirhana Pup and Gator Boy  ) We dealt with this by treating things as either appropriate to chew on, like a rawhide or toy, or inappropriate to chew on, like Grandpa's hands.  If he was chewing on something inappropriate, we would say "no" and replace it with something appropriate, and say "good boy". Do it calmly and consistently. It will take awhile for that puppy brain to catch on to what you want, but it does work. When Oscar kept going for something inappropriate, he got a puppy time out, so that he could calm down. Sometimes a dog is simply overstimulated, like a toddler two hours past naptime on a sugar buzz. I am a bit concerned about all of the "alpha" references, so I want to share some information. Please google "alpha dog debunked" and you will see that the "alpha roll" technique, and dominance theory have been controversial, and some would say even detrimental. The alpha theories are based upon wolf studies, the conclusions of which are now being questioned. In my experience, very few dogs are truly aggressive, and I think that term gets used to describe dogs that are simply in need of training. Wear your puppy out with structured training and positive reinforcement, so he's tired physically and mentally. A tired puppy is a good puppy. I like Victoria Stillwell's approach. She's no pushover, but her methods are more cooperative than adversarial. At the end of the day, I want my dog to do as I ask because we are working together, not because he is anxious, afraid and unsure of my reactions.Laurie and Oscar |
| I agree that few dogs are truly aggressive and we (in our household) reserve the alpha rolling for only the most egregious of behaviors (like the time when Wendell drew blood AND growled). We do lots of structured training and lots of "redirection." It has been an effective combination for us and Wendell is a very well-behaved puppy for his age. The combination of positive reinforcement, redirection, and alpha-rolling (we NEVER pin him by his throat - we always hold him in place by his body) was a suggestion made to us by our vet. It may not be right for everyone. |
| I agree with all of this, Laurie hit it dead on. He's 5 months. Layla went through that stage too, I called her the Snappy Little Alligator, I thought she was the most aggressive, mean dog ever. Nothing worked. Everything, and I mean everything, to get her to stop nipping didn't work. Consistency and patience are absolutely key at this stage, it will absolutely pay off later, no matter how frustrated you are at the time or wanting to cry (been there). And remember, sometimes a time out is very important, for YOU and them! |
I very clearly remember a day when my Beaureguard was about five months old.  I sat down on the sofa to rest a minute and he climbed up next to me and sat down. He just sat there, very still and quiet, for about - oh - maybe a minute.  I sighed the biggest sigh of relief you can ever imagine.  I said out loud to him, as we were the only ones there, "I have glimpsed the future and the future is good."  Up until then I was convinced I'd gotten a baby tasmanian devil by mistake.  Fast forward seven years and he's the biggest old couch potato you've ever seen. His very favorite thing is to sit on the sofa with Tim and watch a ball game. Give your boy time, he'll mature and you too will be wondering why you ever doubted it. P.S. Not a fan of the alpha roll. I don't think that helps.  |
| Re: Alpha........it is because they perceive a lack of leadership that they begin to show these tendencies. If you are Large and In Charge.......a Benvolent Dictator who rewards (action, voice, cooing, etc) only good behavior, they will lose the alpha tendencies. They love strong, fair leaders. |
| I agree Susan. From the literature I've read, it seems that web sites/books are not necessarily de-bunking alpha behavior but some experts are re-classifying it with varying terms. They admit that while dominance in dogs does exist - the average dog owner explainations for some behavior that has nothing to do with dominance at all unless you are familiar with being able to truly "read dogs". I hope I'm not going to confuse anyone futher as I still believe the alpha role exist in my household as I recognize the body language in the my boys. Merlin is dominant over the other dogs in the household , but I'm the alpha B in the household - he will listen to myself and other uprights. I don't rule with an iron fist, nor does Merlin - he is extremely fair with the other dogs and with one exception does not fight to get his way but does a stare down, or places his paw on the others, if they did a belly roll he immediately lets them up. The difference between aggression and dominance is an aggressive dog would keep attacking when they showed the belly up. What works in my household is I made sure Merlin is obedience trained, listens well and as the others look up to him they follow suit. Dogs learn social skills from one another and bite inhibition in play. Older dogs often discipline young pups and many times people inccorectly come to the pups rescue thinking the older dog is "being mean to the pup". That's a human perspective, but is very common in dog behavior. The pup learns that biting another dogs ear for example is not acceptable (puppies often do that in play) by learning from an older dog that this is not acceptable they grow up learning good doggie social rules. Making sure the pre-existing older dog is well trained and allowing them to be around pup is sometimes the easiest way for puppy to learn good social dog rules. Susan is right as a dominant (very different from aggressive) means a benevelent fair strong leader- there is never reason for violence as they respect the one in the leadership role. Dogs learn from one another and if one pup is getting extra attention (coddled) in front of the others this may allow him to view himself as superior to the others if they don't get the same treatment. It also sets up possibly jealousies in the other dogs as the newcomer is possibly seen as the favored one and may cause further problems as he ages. He may possibly view himself as King of the Castle perhaps? I also agree that as pups they are not "aggressive" in the way one might describe a truly unsocialized dog who has no bite inhibition as he has been either taken away from his mom and siblings at too early an age to learn this or has been left alone in a yard with little human or other dog interactions. When I did educational pet talks for the Humane Society one of the things I'd ask people if a 5 month old baby reached over and pulled your hair - would you then come to the conclusion that the baby is aggressive? probably not - they are still learning and too young to know that this is unacceptable. The mother or adult will usually tell the child no and will not allow it to continue. In some ways training a pup follows the same lines - you don't allow the behavior to continue but by consistency and positive reinforcement you show other behaviors that are acceptable. Now saying that, there is a definate difference between a human baby and a pup but the premise is the same - good behaviors are reinforced, bad behaviors are corrected but done so with firm guidance. With your pup who is probably still teething I would give him chewie bone or even a frozen marrow bone (like one would give a teething baby) may help ease his discomfort. However, be careful of the other dogs as this may be a trigger for the others and I would place him in a quiet room to do this. Make him sit in order to get the bone - reinforcing obedience and good behavior. He may also be in the testing age - seeing how far he can get away with things. If he is doing something you don't approve of like jumping on you - walk away. Praise when he is doing a behavior that is acceptable. Okay I'll stop now and before I do - please note that this is only my experiences and many people have varied answers which are all helpful too. You know your pup and household better than anyone and you'll be able to see what works well in your household as you have a large pack. I hope the nipping gets better and for now I wouldn't try to insist on cuddling him if he is displaying this behavior. Good luck to you! Marianne They learn the bite inhibition from their mom and siblings when first learning to play. If they are too rough the siblings usually yelps and Mom comes over to investigate and may put the rough one in his place. The sibling is also teaching the rough one by walking away as if saying, "I'm not playing this game if you are too rough". I realize I am putting human attributes in this scenerio but it is recommended that if your pup is too rough, a sharp yelp from you, a firm No and walk away. I also recommend that sometimes it's not enough to show them what you don't want them to do....but what you expect and want them to do. What I did for all my guys - if they were too rough in play and nipped hard ...was the above but I also had a toy close on hand and placed it in their mouth. Eventually they "got it" - hands were off limits to nip but chewie toys were okay and this was always followed by a good boy!!! They do well with positive reinforcement. Some people might play fight with pups - expecially tug a war. I've read numerous books which say leave the tug a war games up to the dogs. Unless you are prepared to win each and every time. Pups learn and practise dominance in play they may be getting mixed messages from the upright if allowed to win perhaps? Same with some tussle games people do with dogs, I personally think it winds them up to much and much prefer fetch games. |
| Hm. I play tug of war with any of my dogs who like to play the game; some do, some could care less. I'm not advocating it for an out of control puppy and an inexperienced owner, but there's nothing wrong with the game itself. The bigger issue at that age is the bite. (as in how the teeth grow in) Some say tugging can affect it, some think not, I'm on the fence, but I still don't play much tug with young puppies just in case. Otherwise, since I'm running the game, it's just another way to teach them self-control and limits. That said, with two 5 1/2 mos old puppies in the house I am vividly reminded of how horrible they can be while teething.  I was on the phone with Dawn (Got Sheep) tonight while Luna was trying to eat my shoes right off my feet. She's like a little shark right now, driven to chew anything and everything. So at 5 mos old he's not done teething - now his big dog teeth are coming in, and that's much worse than what the little babies go through. This too will pass. Just keep reminding him that there are things he can chew (toys, chews etc) and things he cannot (you, furniture etc) And if he does put teeth on you he better be darn careful how much pressure he exerts (bite inhibition) My girls have had good bite inhibition up until just this week when Luna in her chewing frenzy has forgotten herself twice and chomped down rather hard on my hand - I tell her so in no uncertain terms, Ouch! and "game" (time with me) over, completely unacceptable. The rest they should outgrow. Adequate exercise helps, up to a point. Lots of acceptable things to chew on helps A LOT. Also, check his mouth and make sure the teeth are coming in as they should, the baby teeth are dropping out as they should, and his bite isn't somehow off. if you're not sure what a correct bite etc looks like and you think something might be a little off, you may want to have your vet (or do you know any breeders? Even other breeds?) give it a quick look-see. As for neutering at 3 mos, that has nothing to do with inhibiting aggressive tendencies. To the contrary, dogs neutered young have a higher risk of developing an assortment of behavioral/temperament problems. Given his age my vote is nonetheless for his mouth driving him crazy. At the moment Luna thinks her name is "KNOCK IT OFF!" I actually feel rather sorry for her. This too shall pass... As for the crate wetting - is his crate near you or the other dogs at least? Anxiety (pack animals, you know) can cause "bed" wetting. As can a UTI (less common in males) or even overestimating how long he can hold it. 6 hours is as long as you can reliably expect at this age; though they can go longer, but it doesn't mean they necessarily will, and especially not if they are anxious or you don't limit their water access over night. (And, no, that's not cruel in an otherwise well-hydrated dog - think about it: most of us can make it thought the night without having to get a drink every hour or so...  ) He most likely will outgrow most of this behavior and some day (hopefully in the not too distant future) you'll be looking at the wonderful dog calmly at your feet and wonder how you ever could have thought this perfect dog must have been the spawn of satan...  Hang in there. Kristine |
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