I need advice about "aggressive" bark-park behavior?"
The situations: 1) On Sunday, I had Chowder and Dahlia (both sheepdogs who get along fine) at the dog park on Sunday. They were playing fine with all of the dogs there, although, they did gang up on one dog but, I interceded and made that stop. They were both hard herding the dog into the fence.... I fixed that immediately. Then, a man came with 2 boxers. One was a definite un-neutered male and the other smaller---maybe a female. Well, the male boxer came in to the park very strong willed and he and Dahlia just started to fight. I grabbed her away and every time this dog came near her, she would lunge to fight. I immediately removed both Chowder and Dahlia from the park.....thinking maybe it was because he was a strong-willed un-neutered boxer.... I was taken back by her behavior. 2) Today, we are at the park.... I have Dahlia and my brother's Havanese. They are great together. Best buddies. He is only 18lbs and Dahlia 80lbs and they play wonderfully together. There were other small dogs at the park, and everyone was playing fine. A woman came in with a dachsund and an all black cockapoo. Before she came through the gate, she told me that the dachsund would be fine, but, it was likely that the cockapoo would be afraid of "the big one"... meaning Dahlia..... Well, I stood nearby, and since Dahlia plays nicely with all small dogs I didn't think she would do anything....and then, she attacked this dog.... I mean, attacked it.... I was horrified. The dog was already so fearful and then Dahlia completely went after him. I grabbed her and put her down as I was dominant and then my husband removed her from the park. He took her to the car and then took her on a walk with her leash around the park area with him dominating and leading her. I still was in the park area with my brother's dog and I asked about the cockapoo. He is a 1 year old, neutered male who has terrible fear issues bec/ he was abused as a puppy by his previous owner. So, now, my husband sees that Dahlia is calm and he lets her back in the park gate.....and she completely attacks again the same cockapoo. My head almost exploded. I am so upset and was horribly embarrassed. We had to leave after that. Fortunately, she didn't break the skin, but, the dog was terrorized and she was so aggressive. She also has been lunging in the car or at the window in the house and mean growling when she sees another dog being walked outside. Is she protecting the house and car? Is she too comfortable at this dog park and thinks it is "hers?" I guess is she being very dominant or is she just a 15 month old sheepdog who is testing her boundaries? What do I do? |
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| Wow Shari, I am so sorry you are having these problems. Bentley is 3 days older than Dahlia and besides the occasional stubborn adolescence issue of not listening, he hasn't exhibited aggression towards other animals. The Boxer could have been deemed a threat but not the shy cockapoo. I'd definitely talk to your trainer. Having your husband remove her from he park was a good idea. It will be interesting to hear what others here have to say. I've taken Bentley (who is very gentle and honestly I've never heard him growl) to the dog park and dogs have attacked him and he comes back at them sounding like a bear and they quickly leave him alone. The one thing to keep in mind too is that OES's are very hard to read by other dogs. They can't see their eyes or their hackles. Dogs are more likely to attack them. Not the problem you are having but it is something to keep in mind. |
| Well, the 1st thing you need to do is contact your breeder & ask for some advice on this issue. See if they have had this issue before with any of their other dogs & how they handled it. The next thing I would say to do is: forget the dog park. Dogs can be alot like people. They don't like every dog that comes along just like there are some people in the world we prefer not to have to share space with. If the cockapoo gave any indication that it was the least little bit afraid (YOU aren't going to notice this but your dog would), that's an invitation for a more confident dog to put them in their place. Actually, the lady with the cockapoo shouldn't be bringing her dog to the dog park. It needs a more controlled environment where other dogs & people can be introduced in a more controlled manner to build up it's confidence. I know a lot of people rant & rave about the wonders of dog parks. I am sorry but I am NOT a fan of dog parks. When dogs visit me for grooming or to stay overnight for dog shows they are always introduced slowly & in a controlled situation. And when I leave the house my dogs are either on lead outside or in crates in the van. And I NEVER let other people's dogs get too close to my dogs or in their face. |
| I've never been to a dog park but I can see the potential for problems. I know you just want to get her out to socialize but you just can't predict who's going to come through that gate so it's impossible to know how she's going to react. Is it possible to invite known dogs over to your place or go to the home of someone else to play? You can control the group this way. ChSheepdogs wrote: And I NEVER let other people's dogs get too close to my dogs or in their face. I do the same here. The vet's office seems to be problematic for me lately. Someone comes in and they make a beeline for whoever I have for a nose-to-nose greeting. I've had to tell people flat out "no" and shoo them and their dog away, put myself between my dog that theirs or back away and put more distance between us. One was a vet bringing a dog out to weigh it.  I don't know your dog! They kind of swoop in on you sometimes... |
| I'm sorry this event happened to you. While I was steward of a dog park several years ago ,this meant I helped keep the park clean and informed people of the rules of the dog park but otherwise had no authority other than be a friendly face that greeted newcomers. it was 2 blocks from my home and I visited it often. I too eventually stopped being a fan as I saw too many incidences to continue going there. Unless people have 100% control of their dogs at all times there is far too much potential for fights and injuries. It also became increasing frustrating to deal with people who didn't understand dog behavior and would either under react or over react when dogs played. In our city, intact dogs and females in heat are not allowed in offleash parks as it causes too much commotion with the other dogs. I remember one time a newly adopted dog was brought to the park. I was familiar with this beautiful dog, a Wheaton, as I had seen it posted on the SPCA website. A little suprised they would bring the dog so soon to the dog park without fully knowing all it's behaviors, but the mom and her 5 children who accompanied her were obviously wanting to show off their new dog and let her play. Within mins the dog started fighting and was pulled away. Thinking it was a one time incident of one dog not liking another dog, the other owner left. Again, within mins the dog was attacking another dog. One owner (whose dog was not involved) stepped in and had his thumb nearly severed and 911 was called. As it involved a human injury - animal control and the police came too. The kids were really distraught and crying. It was a horrible situation. I took the Injured fellows dog home with me while he went to the hospital to have his thumb re-attached. No one sued and even the police, nor animal control wanted to put the dog down (as is a requirement in our area - there is a strict no bite human rule (not even 1 chance as was previously given in the past) as the sight of those 5 crying children was heartbreaking. They finally made the acception that since the man had stepped in between two fighting dogs it wasn't an intential bite (but actually the rules of our city says it doesn't matter the circumstance.) 2 weeks later, I saw the mom and it turned out the dog had an undiagnosed spinal problem (think slipped disk) and was in excruiating pain when bumped by another dog. Okay after that horrible story (really I don't mean to scare you) but I would not go to dog parks as if the other owner tried to pull their dog away from yours and were injured they could sue you...or potentially have Dahlia seized. (not sure if this would even apply in your area). However, the chance is too great and your dog's safety is at stake. I hope I'm not coming down too hard nosed and I know you feel terrible as it's so apparent in your post. I'm really sorry this happened to you and your family. So I would do the following: Get her checked out to make sure it's not a medical issue Get in touch with the breeder Get in touch with a trainer Do not go to offleash parks until the issue is resolved and Dahlia may perhaps not even in the future be a candidate for these types of parks but do okay in a more controlled environment with a buddy. I don't have all the answers and I hope I'm not insulting you with my suggestion or even making you feel worse by telling that ghastly story. Just letting you be aware of the potential that may exist if she fights another dog. People know they shouldn't get in the middle of dog fights but instinctively owners want to protect their dogs. I know I once threw myself on top of Merlin when a dog went for him the second time. Really stupid on my part!! However, we all love our furkids and want to do the best for them. I know you're a terrific mom and I'm sending positive thoughts to you and Dahlia. Hugs Marianne |
| I'm so sorry that has happened to you and Dahlia. Charm is just one day older, and she romps and plays so hard with other dogs that I worry about her being too rough. Our families' boxers do tend to play the hardest with Charm. Alot of standing, pawing, growling and barking. It is perceived as fighting by others who haven't witnessed it before. They are indulging in harmless play. I'm not saying that Dahlia and the boxer were not fighting but perhaps just rougher play than with smaller dogs. As far as the cockapoo, I'm at a loss aside from its fear and timidity causing problems as Marilyn suggested. I'll be anxious to see what your trainer recommends. I know you are worried to death. Thanks for mentioning Dahlia's stage of stubborness and pushing, I feel better hearing it. Charm is exactly that, and yesterday, clawed a painted wall repeatedly while I was away!!  She had never harmed anything before, but back to the kennel while I'm out of the house. |
| at least you were there and took control of her. last time I was at a dog park the owner of 2 medium size dogs sat there and watched as his dogs attacked a small puppy. The owner of the puppy was crying but scared to pick up her dog because of the other 2. Me and another man got them away again while the owner watched. I gave him an ear full and left and will never go back. I dont need Ryleigh to be injured because someone thinks its fun to watch dogs fight. As far as Boxers- they seem to have something against Sheepies I guess.  My sister has 2 boxers, both males both fixed. One of them plays just fine with Ryleigh, but her bigger one always goes after her. He plays fine with my 2 Labs but does not like Ryleigh. He no longer can come to my parents house when we are there to visit. She just wants to play, he wants to attack.Best of luck, hope your able to get some good advice.  |
Ryleigh wrote: at least you were there and took control of her. last time I was at a dog park the owner of 2 medium size dogs sat there and watched as his dogs attacked a small puppy. The owner of the puppy was crying but scared to pick up her dog because of the other 2. Me and another man got them away again while the owner watched. I gave him an ear full and left and will never go back. I dont need Ryleigh to be injured because someone thinks its fun to watch dogs fight. As far as Boxers- they seem to have something against Sheepies I guess. My sister has 2 boxers, both males both fixed. One of them plays just fine with Ryleigh, but her bigger one always goes after her. He plays fine with my 2 Labs but does not like Ryleigh. He no longer can come to my parents house when we are there to visit. She just wants to play, he wants to attack.Best of luck, hope your able to get some good advice. You might be onto something with the Boxers. Two came into my yard last year. The female pinned Langley down on to his back and then grabbed him around the neck and shook. THANK goodness Langley was in full coat. I am joking it isn't the breed that was a really bad dog. Animal control knew who I was talking about when I called. I as well do not care for dog parks. Unless the are regulated or a trainer there or an advocate who know the signs of a fight about to happen. FORGET IT. I just found people stood around and chatted and never kept an eye on their dogs. I rather pay for a social class like I was and have a trainer there. She also explained alot to us about what was happen ect. Maybe you can find some like minded dog owners and create your own group. Only need 2 or 3 when it is too many it is scary. |
ChSheepdogs wrote: Well, the 1st thing you need to do is contact your breeder & ask for some advice on this issue. See if they have had this issue before with any of their other dogs & how they handled it. The next thing I would say to do is: forget the dog park. Dogs can be alot like people. They don't like every dog that comes along just like there are some people in the world we prefer not to have to share space with. If the cockapoo gave any indication that it was the least little bit afraid (YOU aren't going to notice this but your dog would), that's an invitation for a more confident dog to put them in their place. Actually, the lady with the cockapoo shouldn't be bringing her dog to the dog park. It needs a more controlled environment where other dogs & people can be introduced in a more controlled manner to build up it's confidence. I think you hit the nail on the head here, Marilyn. The cockapoo was giving off a signal that the humans didn't realize was a danger - fear. A more confident/dominate dog will attack a fearful one. Seems illogical to us as humans, but makes perfect sense to the dogs. I agree, too, that the woman with the cockapoo should not be taking the dog to the park. He needs a more controlled invironment. As for your Dahlia, you are right to ask for training with your trainer or behaviorist. None of us, instinctively, know what's going on in a dog's mind. They simply don't think like we do. As much as we like to humanize them, their thought processes are very different from ours. We have to learn to think like them and see things from their point of view. Work with your trainer and let them help you learn the signs and signals to watch for in Dahlia and to correct the behavior properly. And, I'd stay away from the dog park unless it is in a controlled, learning situation with your trainer. Don't set her - or yourself - up to fail. You both need positive training experiences to rebuild your confidence. Most importantly, don't lose heart. This is fixable.  |
| Hold on a minute you have to remove her because of a dog coming into the park will have problems with her? Something strikes me that the other owners should also take steps to resolve the problems that their dogs cause. Please don't beat yourself up over this. |
| You're right both owners are 50% responsible. I was only thinking that Dahlia had already gone for the Cocker and that must have been frightening for that owner. Yes, those owners knew that their dog had fear issues and were probably thinking they were doing the right thing by bringing their dog to the dog park. The results may have been very positive for that dog if the interactions with the other dogs were positive. Dahalia, after the first incident of attack should have been removed (as she was) but returning her in my opinion was a mistake. No blame intended as Dahlia's parents were shocked obviously at her behavior and didn't see it coming. You know I use to feel the same way at a kids play ground. My two year old once bent over another child who had just stolen his toy and bit him! I was horrified as until then my child never bit. I removed him from the park. Yes, granted the other child stole his toy but the bite in retaliation was not justified. Yes, he was only two and a tot but I didn't want him to start doing this out of habit. So I took him home and all week when he wanted to go back I would calmly tell him no and explained why. He never bit again as he knew I meant what I said. The other child's father came knocking at my door threatening to punch my lights out for what my child had done to his. Oh sheesh! Parents of furkids and uprights can get really emotional and of course we want to protect our own but we also have a responsibility to make sure others are safe too. So I'll stick to my opinion that yes I would take the dog home if it misbehaved but I would also expect the other owner to do the same if the situation was reversed. |
| I appreciate everyone's comments here and I just thought i would circle back around. After the dog park incident, we have not been back. I have kept Dahlia away from there and we have done alternative things for exercise. We also just had my brother's Havanese at our house for 12 days or so, and that was great. Both dogs get along very well---best buddies.... which is very nice. I have called my old trainer and have decided to move ahead with interviewing a new trainer. We are interviewing them and they will evaluate Dahlia on Friday. I was looking for a trainer that will do a lot of outside training and not just classroom training. I want real life stuff at this point. I will go back for classes again, but, I want to work on the stuff that is an issue and learn how to handle that. Overall, 95% of the time, Dahlia is wonderful. She is fairly mellow and very easy to train. She is food motivated and shows no signs of aggression or anything. These were some very strange circumstances and since I saw them, I want to make sure that I never ever see that again. I am trying to be proactive here and nip any bad behaviors in the sheepie butt I was very proud of her today. We do not have a fenced in yard. I didn't close the door all the way and the wind must have blown it open. I was on the phone and I heard 2 barks and it was Dahlia outside with no leash or anything. She was sitting on the top of our yard watching a woman walk by with her 2 dogs. She just sat there and didn't run to see them or anything. I couldn't believe it. I was so proud of her. She must have just did the 2 little barks to let me know she was outside and her way of saying hello to the passerby pups..... My little girl is growing up..... |
| Sounds like a good plan. Good luck in your search for the trainer that's a good match for you. Cute episode today...ah yes, sounds like she's growing up, and doing it well. |
| You give that girl a belly rub from me for her good behavior!!! I know it's hurts us Moms when either our uprights or furkids misbehave and we look for solutions on how to solve it. You sound like you've done the right things and I hope I didn't insult you in anyway in my post. I wish you all the best of luck in finding a trainer. It may be they (meaning some dogs - try out a higher status role (of course dog parks are the place for them to try this out) sometimes much to their uprights chagrin. For some weird reason dogs of aprox 9 months seem to be a target for other dogs trying out this higher status. Previously those dogs, as young pups, were off limits to the adult dogs but once they are starting to merge into adulthood, the other dogs seeing they are becoming established in a heirachy will immediately try to put those dogs in their place so that they remain below them in status. At least that was the consensus of regular park goers who observed the interactions with the dogs and would notice one being picked on even if that hadn't occurred before. That dog was usually reaching puberty (varies with different breeds- smaller dogs usually reach it sooner). You may never find out the reason why she picked on the Cocker but I'm glad you have found alternatives for her and wow she did really well with her smaller friend! Good girl Dahlia! Good luck with finding a trainer. Cheers! Marianne |
| You certainly didn't insult me. It would be hard to do that. I listen to everyone's comments. I may not always agree with everything, but, I certainly respect everyone for commenting on this website. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. I wanted to let everyone know that I received an email notice last night regarding the dog park. The dog park is a private dog park and we pay dues to go there and sign paperwork. It is supposed to help keep the scene clean and also it is supposed to enforce some of the dog park rules---no unneutered/unspayed animals for example...all dogs health tested etc... The notice was a warning regarding the man with the 2 boxers. He is not a member of the park and his dogs have been causing problems----These are the boxers that Dahlia had issues with bec/ the large one is unneutered and highly energetic and went right for her. She, of course, went to attack back which is why I removed her.... but, the other owner did nothing. I was somewhat happy to see that a notice of caution has been sent out about this guy and his dogs and that other dogs in the park have been having issues with these boxers. Apparently, the owner has become beligerent and mean and we have been told to avoid him and his dogs. The dog park board members who sent out the notice had no idea that I had an issue with this guy and his boxers. I have now informed them and it happens to be that they were wondering why I hadn't been at the park since Dahlia plays with their Golden retreivers so nicely.... I explained what happened. This certainly doesn't explain the Cockapoo part except for Dahlia just seeing a very weak and terrified dog and putting it in his place.... but, it does give me some comfort regarding the boxers.... I hope the person with the cockapoo finds an alternative place for her dog to play since if I had such a fearful dog, I wouldn't bring them to a dog park.... This dog was visibly scared and hiding in between her legs and shaking before Dahlia even went after him.... Well, I learned some things about dog parks from my experiences and I also am very excited to meet and interview a potential new trainer.... I'm taking this as a positive stepping stone in our training path. We will be coming up on summer in no time, and I need to have a very well mannered girl when we go camping and sailing......and so, things can only get better from here..... |
| Great outlook! I see positive things on the horizon! |
| I'm glad the dog park is addressing the issues of the boxers. I just had another thought of why Dahlia may have gone for the Cocker as she previously had an altercation with the boxers. It may have been that in frustration she lashed out at the other dog (the Cocker)as sometimes happens when they are unable to get to the source of their true frustrations (the boxer). Anyhow continued good luck with her training. Marianne |
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