What about when the "pack" is cats?
A lot of what she said made me think of what i am doing with my sheepie rescue, Dexter. He is kind, and loving, and from the day he walked into the house, he was friendly with my cats, and they with him, no hissing, no fighting, it was pretty normal from day one. I have had few negative things with Dex, surprising since he was a rescue that was neglected and tied up when he was found. The worse thing is that he follows my every move in the house and sometimes I dont know what to do with that. I mean if he is sleeping and i just adjust my leg on the couch or switch sides he snaps to and runs over to me to see what i am doing. When I sit at my sewing machine to work on things, he paces, and stands there an pants, and stares and i have to tell him to GO LAY DOWN. because he really stresses me out with the staring and pacing when i am just trying to sit and do something. Sometimes he gets aggressive with smaller dogs at the park, but we just leave when he starts acting out. He has never been aggressive towards my cats, however, he does seem to bully them for lack of better words. I know the cats would have no problem getting their point across if he ever tried to really hurt them, so i am not worried. When he is laying down, and one of the cats walks in the room, he will stand up and just get in their way. They just go around him, but he does this often. If he is laying on the floor, if he sees a cat come to me and jump in my lap, all of a sudden he snaps to and runs to me as if he needs me to pet him right now, and will use his big blockhead to push the cat out of the way. Sometimes when following me around the house, he will walk right on top of a cat. Its not aggressive, its like he doesnt even see the cat laying there, or doesnt care, he will just step all over a cat if its laying in his way. They get along otherwise, but Mariannes comments about not loving on one dog in front of the other dogs kind of peaked my interest because i love on Dex in front of the cats, and I love on the cats in front of him. Cats dont follow the same rank and alpha relationships the way dogs do. I have two cats. I love on everyone equally. So how does it work when Dex, the newcomer, walks into a house with me and two cats? Does he still feel the need to understand his place in the pack, even though the 2 cats couldn't really care less? Is there something i should or should not be doing to make him less jealous? Also, I hate to resort to medication, but I am seriously thinking of talking to the vet about meds for him, because seriously, having a dog should calm a person and make them happier and sometimes he stresses me out so badly (with how he watches me constantly it makes me uncomfortable) that it gives me a headache with how many times a day I have to tell him to go lay down, or calm down. When I go to work he goes into his kennel no problems. But on the weekends when I am home, I can't move around in my own house literally without his nose in my butt, he just never seems to calm down esp when I am doing something (sewing, cooking, doing the dishes, folding laundry). Sorry for the long post, it was longer than I intended! |
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| Old English Sheepdogs are called Velcro dogs because they love to be attached to your side at all time. Coming from being a cat person, I can understand how uncomfortable this can make you feel. The OES is also a "herding" breed, which means they like to keep things rounded up, and they like to know what is going on at all times. I have 3 "herding" dogs, 2 Australian Shepherds and Violet my OEs. I also have an old cat Pearl. We all live in harmony. The Aussies' like to attempt to herd Pearl, which I don't allow and neither does she. Violet doesn't really care about Pearl, she has accidently stepped on her, but Pearl is fast and recovers quickly. I don't believe the the pack ranking thing. The truth is about my dogs, Violet can be a bitch, Asia can be bossy and China is easy going...I also call her my nurse because she is always there to take care of me...no ranking that is just the way they are. I usually have one or two dogs laying around me somewhere. Violet likes to lay on Chuck's side of the bed most of the morning. Chuck works afternoons so as soon as he rolls out Violet rolls in. Violet is 9 and has hd, so if she sleeps better there, I have no problem. By afternoon she is following me around and laying near me as well. I'm very rarely in the house without a dog somewhere near by. I've gotten used to it over time. I guess what I'm saying is dogs love to be with their people. |
| Thank you for the post. I have been told about the velcro dog thing before, but I suppose I was hoping it would wear off over time. I had a Boston Terrier for 13 yrs before Dexter. As hyper and active as he was, when in the house, he laid around and did his thing, and never really seemed to care where I was inside the house. He would eventually find me to see what I was up to, but he would lay in the doorway with his toy and do his own thing when I was doing something. Dexter stands there, panting, staring, like he is worried about something constantly. I wonder "am I behaving in a way that stresses him out" but again, with my other dog, he would just lay and chill and let me do my homework, sew, whatever it was. Dex is just so INTENSE about what I am doing, and sometimes I feel like he is carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders with how he worries about where I am and what I am doing. Its been a year in May and I guess I am still getting used to it =) But other than that, he is a good boy, and I do love him so much. |
| Thank you for rescuing Dexter. I have to say that I am surprised he doesn't have more severe issues, based upon his neglect before you rescued him. Can't really comment about the cats, but I echo everything violet said about the OES breed. They are known as "velcro" dogs, or, as I call Oscar, "Sheepdog Shadow".  Oscar is very in tune to where I am at all times, and will jump up and follow me every time I move a muscle. If I really don't want him to follow me, as I will be carrying something and don't want to trip over him, I will put him in a "down-stay" until I am done. Oscar does not suffer from separation anxiety, however, if I am home, he is with me. Our first OES was exactly the same way. I haven't shut a bathroom door in 13 years.  It almost sounds like you and your dog are in a round-robin of anxiety. He watches you constantly and paces, making you nervous. When you are anxious or nervous about his constant attention, he picks up on that, which makes HIM more anxious and nervous. And round and round you go. I think the best way to handle it is to be calm and consistent. Try very hard not to show your frustration. When he is bothering you, tell him calmly to "lay down". When he does, tell him "good boy". Do some training work with him, just basic obedience, like "sit-stay" or "down-stay", using nummy treats. The more frustrated and anxious you get, the more he senses it, which just makes his behavior worse. If there are certain times where you are going to be sewing or sitting, could you give him something to keep him occupied, like a kong with peanut butter, or a bully stick? It might help with his hyper-focus on your every move. Laurie and Oscar |
Sounds like he is a completely normal sheepie to me. Lily does the same thing, follows me around, watches me, has to know what im doing every moment, wants to be next to me/on me (is laying on the couch next to me right now) and even though she dislikes water, shes been known to jump in the shower/bath with me occasionally...  i doubt your sheepie will ever calm down on this. I remember my moms first sheepie, chewie, doing this til the day he died at 13. What a sweet boy he was. I wouldnt stress out about him watching you, its normal, part of their job and sheepies really just want to be a part of everything you do. They love their uprights more than any other breed ive ever met. No truer love. We have 2 other dogs, a hound and a wolf hybrid. Our hound most of the time wont even greet us when we come home. Our wolf however does like to see what the pack is doing and be included, especially since lily just includes herself all the time. |
| Hi, Thanks for having faith in me but I don't have all the answers just basing it on my experiences of my various rescues and the interactions in my household. I have aprox 30 varied species and counting their interactions with one another it turns out to be aprox 425 interactions with one another on a daily basis! Whew! As you can see I'd go zany (okay maybe that's already happened). In my household and in my previous homes, I see the pack mentality all the time. Not everyone believes in it and that's what great about this forum is you get a lot of info from various people and based on what is going on in your home you take bits and pieces and see what works for you in your household. For me, I always had 3-4 dogs and generally with 3 or more - the pack mentality sets in. (Notice I said generally)However, that's my opinion and not everyone believes in Alphas either, but in my multi-dog home I know for sure that there is no question that Merlin is the alpha dog. Some folks are really lucky and have easy going dogs and don't see one being boss over the others, but with mine Merlin is. However, I'm alpha over him and he enforces the rules to the others. I know sounds kinda weird but I mean in terms of counter surfing, chasing or harrassing any of the other animals, ect...he's my right hand man and every dog that has come into our home..Merlin immediately puts them in their place if they break those rules. So they don't and it makes it easier for me. Even when aged Gilligan arrived, I'm almost sure he had never been around cats. He immediately perked up when he saw them and Merlin kinda let him know - hey that's not allowed. The cats whom have been around dogs for a long time weren't stressed and sat with Gilligan. He eventually became their best buddy as they loved cuddling with him. I know he didn't know what to make of the two friendliest ones rubbing against him and giving him kisses that first time but eventually he returned the kisses. They all live harmoniously together and I believe they do view the smaller animals as part of the pack in our house. They will immediately surround the outdoor bunny pen (they love their bunnies!) should they hear a dog in the neighborhood or walking by our yard. Each dog took up a post on 1 corner and take turns guarding the bunnies and then when danger passed, they would go back to their own business but one would usually stay on guard duty. Many animals even those with high prey drives may not harass their own household cats or smaller animals. But would chase one they see on the street as some say that they view the ones in their homes as part of their family. Our busy household consist of 3 male dogs and 11 cats plus other animals. (seriously folks I'm not a collector as various reputable rescues call me to foster their animals) The numbers change frequently as at times I have many incoming should a shelter become overcrowded or have an outbreak of URI for example. So the interactions change all the time. Overall, the cats are the ones that generally set the tone of the relationships. When Panda,Gilligan, and others, I did notice a significant difference a year after they arrived. The honeymoon period was over and their true personalities started emerging. However, they still continued afterwards and you will see changes in your boy even more next year too. I know while it's annoying regarding the velcro thing ,especially with rescues they want constant reassurance too. My guys always got jealous with the new guys and I didn't want to compound it further with attention to the new one but I would do so out of the sight of the others. Eventually when they had it sorted out then I have had no hesitation giving attention when we are all together. Okay whew...sorry or the long ramble but now back to your concerns...the cats and your boy. As cats usually are the ones that dictate the relationship and they are not clawing his face but sorta putting up with it. It's really hard for humans to think one animal is being left out and they start thinking, oh poor thing....they think in regards of the animal in human terms when they should be thinking of them in dog/cat modes of thinking. The cats may miss their interaction with you and the previous times on your lap but it's not forever and in their eyes they may even be accepting of it. In our house, we do use babygates and all the animals are safe at all times. Out of the 11 special needs/senior cats we have - a few choose to come downstairs on a regular basis and sit with me on the couch. With some they put up with the curiousity of the dogs and overtime the dogs and the cats just got used to each other. I know a year seems like an eternity but I've seen some take a bit longer and they even start sleeping together. To give attention to those that don't come downstairs and to ease my own guilt I go sit upstairs (watch a movie) or work on the computer and have the cats lounge on me. This may not work for your household and it's easier if you have a very calm dog and not a hyper one to put cats at ease but it sounds as if the cats at your place have already accepted their new huge sibling. A year is still recent, and I'm confident over time they will even develope stronger bonds. It's sounds as if you're doing all the right things. I know you miss the cats sitting with you but trust me ....have patience and it will happen again. The fact they don't harrass each other is HUGE!!! Next step they will eventually sit in closer proximity to one another and eventually may even all sit with you or one another. Oh lucky you! The dog already views the cats as "part of the family" as he doesn't harrass them and thats a good thing! Dunno if they helped you at all as I have no definate answers as it's really on their own comfort level and it takes time. Good luck! Marianne |
| I don't have any rescues, but I do have two dogs and a cat. I suspect the dalmatian would be quite happy if my sheepie wasn't here. She's too loud, rough and bossy for his refined tastes. My dalmatian and the cat are best friends, they snuggle together on the dog bed and play together. The sheepie and the cat can drive me nuts. Tiggy (my sheepie) LOVES to chase cats, she knows she's not supposed to but she can't help herself. So if the cat runs she's after him and I have to keep a tight hold on her leash if we're out in the street and she sees a cat. Her chasing the cat annoys him a lot of the time and he has his say at her. But I have also caught him teasing her and deliberately running past her when she's lying down in order to get her to chase him. They like to play fight too, but the cat gets narky because he can't get through all her coat to bite her. Call it a love-hate relationship I guess. Tiggy steps on the cat all the time. I think sometimes she doesn't see him but others she doesn't care. She is inclined to do it to us as well in terms of pushing past if we're in the way of where she wants to go. I don't like the behaviour so I push back and tell her "no" so it happens a lot less as a result. In terms of the pacing and panting. Tiggy gets really hot in the house and tends to do this, it's not that she's stressed, she just wants to go outside in the cool and that's her way of asking. But if it is stress maybe your boy is not good at giving himself a job and you may need to suggest one. For example if he has a favorite chew toy, you could give him that and ask him to take it on his bed. By the way do you have a bed for him in each room? Tiggy won't stay on a bed if it's in a different room to the one I'm in so she has one in each room and I've taught her to go to her bed and watch me from there. Good luck |
| Hi, I think you're doing a great job! Seriously you are very lucky...no major issues. It's a pain in the butt to have our guys so devoted to us and to sometimes feel you're joined at the hip. That sometimes we feel like saying ,"hey give me a min to myself!". However, I agree with everyone...OES are velcro dogs and especially if they have a bit of a rough background - all dogs tend to gravitate to the wonderful provider that turned their life around. Don't worry it will settle (somewhat) as time passes. Dex will always be a velcro dog but will also learn to "share" you a bit more. As for the getting up when the cats walk in...that too is normal ...herding behavior. Cats aren't too impressed with this from any dog but yours seem to be handling it amazingly well. If they become too annoyed...they'll let him know. Your furkid family seems to be all okay with the current setup. Pats from me to them. Marianne |
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