OES Breeder Information!
I am currently looking at a breeder in Michigan. I very much like them, was just wondering if anyone had any experience. Their name is Paws Up North, I did a search and it seemed a few members here were quite happy with their dogs. This was several years ago, can anyone else tell me their experience with them via PM. I also met a women with 2 OES's from there recently and she had nothing but rave reviews about them. I have already contacted the OES Club of America, they are not a member and I know many will tell me to contact them, but as I already have for references and there was not much information, I contacted Tarja Peters as well, who really just referred me back to the site, to sum it up, I am really just looking for any reviews on this particular breeder! Thank you so much in advance!!! Hope to be apart of this wonderful community soon, my family grew up with OES's and I cannot wait to have my own!  |
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| Welcome! And good luck with your puppy search! |
Hello, we are happy to have you here, especially during your search. It's so exciting to follow a member's search for a new dog or puppy.  And pictures!!!  Go ahead now and figure out how to upload- its a requirement to get those sweet cuddly pink paws, beautiful face and puppy antics for us to drool over!!  Hope you get your information soon, the community here is so helpful and knowledgeable. So, welcome and keep us posted on all the details!! |
| We have several members from MI, so hopefully they can help you out in deciding if this is a reputable place. Good luck in your search!! |
| Thank you everyone!! |
| Here's a list of questions you can ask and things to consider so you can make the decision that will be best for you. http://untilyoufindme.com/Buying-An-Old ... -Puppy.htm One thing that I would suggest to anyone buying any puppy from any breeder... just consider an insurance policy while the puppy is young and healthy. Embrace Pet Insurance was a huge money saver for us and allowed me to pursue treatment to save my dog... I had taken it out on him as a new puppy. Good luck with your search. |
I sent you a message--good luck!  |
| If you're in MI <?> there are any number of good breeders there. Why not ask ChSheepdogs/Marilyn - PM her in case she hasn't seen this thread yet - and ask her to refer you to somebody? The breeder you're looking at is a back yard breeder. Even if I didn't know that from before - I met one of their dogs at an OES get together - their website says it all - no talk about health clearances, deposit on puppies gets you pick in order of, will ship anywhere, multiple litters at a time, repeatedly, same stud dog used over and over, in other words, if you've got the cash, they've got the puppy. If you're OK with that, do your homework and then double that effort. Especially ask about health testing and certificates - not just the usual "my vet says all my dogs are wonderful" or "I've never had a problem so don't need to test" spiel. There should be hip, eyes and thyroid testing of parents. OFA or Penn Hip certified for the former, CERF for eyes, and OFA thyroid. Ideally hearing should be tested as well - that's called BAER testing. Ask for the sire and dam's AKC registered names and registration numbers. That way you can double check any thing they tell you about health testing on the OFA (orthopedic foundation for animals) website: http://www.offa.org If the parents don't have OFA hip (or PennHip) clearances at a bare minimum, walk away, or better yet. run. We have enough people on the forum who have had to deal with dogs who were symptomatically dysplastic, often at very young ages, and have had expensive surgeries and/or rehabs. Chances are no insurance policy is going to cover that as it's a well known genetic condition. Ask to see their contract before you commit to anything. What kind of health guarantee? Do you have to give the puppy back to get any kind of refund? Will they stand behind the puppy for life and take it back, no questions asked, at any time? In fact, do they demand that you return the puppy if you can't keep it for any reason? (If not, you could be supporting a breeder who keeps rescue in business, and you don't want to do that, right?) They're asking $1000 a puppy, they can afford to so some basic health testing. Just because they're "only" breeding pets is no excuse not to breed the best they can. You deserve that. This puppy will hopefully be with you for 12 years plus. You can afford take your time and make sure you know what you're getting into. Good luck!  Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: We have enough people on the forum who have had to deal with dogs who were symptomatically dysplastic, often at very young ages, and have had expensive surgeries and/or rehabs. Chances are no insurance policy is going to cover that as it's a well known genetic condition. Embrace Pet Insurance... Coverage for Genetic & Breed-specific Conditions http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/cove ... tions.aspx Canine Orthopedic Exam & Waiver Process- http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/afte ... aiver.aspx Of course, nothing pre-existing is covered though... that's why you take it out early. Definitely... reduce the chances of health problems by buying a pup that has proof it came from healthy parents (OFA/CERF). No excuse for high prices and no OFA/CERF. |
| I checked out the website they have. They may be nice dogs and nice people....but they are raking in money big time. No mention of any of the above health tests being done, yet they are charging prices almost as high as what a good breeder does, who actually does the health testing. To me, that's just wrong. The tests are out there and easily done. They do cost money, but it's burying your head in the sand to not do them. They have been doing this long and in a big way - the list of "retired" puppy moms and dad is ...sad. I'm not against dogs being bred - but as a business making money (and not doing the recommended health work that would help prevent genetic problems) it is morally irresponsible. They may say they love the dogs and love the breed...but if they won't spend money to do basic tests, they are not. It's all about the $$ is my take on it. It's a business - a puppy farm. No way I would support that. |
| Something else too... If you're uncertain whether a breeder is responsible, you can also check with rescues. See if a breeder's dogs have been in need of help, how quickly they reclaimed the dog(s) and whether rescue was reimbursed for their time and resources. Just 3 quick questions. I'd check with OES Rescue of Michigan and also New England OES Rescue. A good breeder won't burden rescue with their dogs. Check with the area kennel club to see what breeders you might find in Michigan or your state. If you're in the area of this particular breeder, there have been more OESs over the past few years showing at the local dog show so the club may be able to direct you to other Michigan OES breeders. These shows are a good place to meet OES people and see a breeder's dogs first hand. The same health/responsibility questions apply because there are different calibers of breeders in every group. |
| Thank you everyone for all the information! Insurance is actually something offered for pets through my significant others company, which is a nice and different treat! Regardless of a Sheepdog, it's always good to have! Definitely will keep you posted on any information we find. We are actually located in NJ, sadly, there is nothing around here, if we went with this breeder we were making a weekend of it to pick him up. We had met a women here that had 2 sheepies from them, and had rave reviews about them, they were 7 and 4 and gorgeous girls. |
| A bit off topic.... But, where in NJ are you from? I live in Hunterdon County with Dahlia our 1 year old sheepie. Our other sheepie was 15 when she passed..... There are others on here from NJ as well----some of us have met before bec/ of this forum. There is also a great OES picnic in May in PA which we will be at. |
| Ocean County! Where did you get yours? I would love to have a meet up! The picnic sounds great! When we get our sheepie! Until then, I have a 2 year old Labradoodle who LOVES other dogs and is pretty flurry, I could pretend she is a sheepie for the day |
| Did you check with Rick Tocco? I know he just recently had a litter. He's a member of OESCA & on the breeder referral list. Kennel name is Seawaite. I'd try calling him as well as e-mailing. His information is listed below: Rick Tocco Seathwaite Lansing, NY 607-533-4817 rtocco51@yahoo.com |
ChSheepdogs wrote: Did you check with Rick Tocco? I know he just recently had a litter. He's a member of OESCA & on the breeder referral list. Kennel name is Seawaite. I'd try calling him as well as e-mailing. His information is listed below: Rick Tocco Seathwaite Lansing, NY 607-533-4817 rtocco51@yahoo.com Good luck with your search. Hope you find the sheepie that you and your family can love, also a friend for your Labradoodle.  |
| I actually emailed paws up north while I was on my puppy search, and the parents of their current litter are NOT ofa certified. They said the parents and grandparents of the dogs were, though. She didn't say anything about CERF, either. Plus it seems like they continuously have puppies, as they still have a puppy left over from the last litter and just had a litter born on Friday... Doesn't sound good to me. |
| BEWARE, BEWARE, BEWARE!!!!!! I PURCHASED A PUPPY FROM THIS BREEDER 9 MONTHS AGO. THE DOG IS WONDERFUL AND NO ISSUES. HOWEVER, THE BREEDER PROMISED A.K.C. REGISTRATION, AND A 2 YEAR HEALTH WARRANTY. TO DATE, NO RESPONSE FROM THE BREEDER. TONS OF PHONE MESSAGES, EMAILS, LETTERS, AND NO RESPONSE! FINALLY CONTACTED A.K.C. AND THEY OPENED A CASE ON THIS. AFTER REPEATED TRIES, NO RESPONSE FROM THE BREEDER. THEY DO NOT DO WHAT THEY ADVERTISE. NO HEALTH WARRANTY AND NO A.K.C. REGISTRATION. I HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE STATE'S ATTORNEY TO FILE FRAUD CHARGES. |
| Do not get a dog from these people. They lie, they do not respond to your messages. They take deposits and do not contact you back. They are horrible business people and do not deserve to be able to breed animals. I should have read up on this breeder before even getting started with them |
Terry KI wrote: BEWARE, BEWARE, BEWARE!!!!!! I PURCHASED A PUPPY FROM THIS BREEDER 9 MONTHS AGO. THE DOG IS WONDERFUL AND NO ISSUES. HOWEVER, THE BREEDER PROMISED A.K.C. REGISTRATION, AND A 2 YEAR HEALTH WARRANTY. TO DATE, NO RESPONSE FROM THE BREEDER. TONS OF PHONE MESSAGES, EMAILS, LETTERS, AND NO RESPONSE! FINALLY CONTACTED A.K.C. AND THEY OPENED A CASE ON THIS. AFTER REPEATED TRIES, NO RESPONSE FROM THE BREEDER. THEY DO NOT DO WHAT THEY ADVERTISE. NO HEALTH WARRANTY AND NO A.K.C. REGISTRATION. I HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE STATE'S ATTORNEY TO FILE FRAUD CHARGES. Terry KI, have you had any luck since you made contact with the State Attorney's office? I have had the same problem since I received my puppy from this breeder 6 months ago. Our puppy was shipped and soon after picking her up from the airport, all contact stopped. I can't get any reply by email or phone. The only communication I received was through Paypal after I filed a dispute where she said that she sent the paperwork in the mail. After contacting the AKC, i received the following reply: "This is a follow up to our previous email correspondence. We wrote to the litter owners Angela Walker and Diane Brown and we did not receive a response regarding your dog’s registration. Because the litter is not registered that your dog belongs to, we are unable to offer your registration papers. You may want to consider enrolling in our PAL (Purebred Alternative Listing) Program. This is a program that allows unregistered dogs of registrable breeds to compete in AKC Performance and Companion Events, also specific breeds in the FSS® Program that are eligible for Companion Events. If you are interested you can download the link from: http://images.akc.org/pdf/ADPAL1.pdf. We regret we are unable to assist you further with the AKC registration papers for your dog and we wish the best for you and your dog." Now the breeder's website and Facebook page are both disabled. Our puppy is great, healthy, and we love her very much, but paying the price they charge for an AKC registered puppy, you expect to receive the paperwork. |
| Wish I'd seen this thread before we sent a $300 deposit. Angie Holmes was very friendly and provided lots of background in email and phone when I spoke to her. But the birth date came and went and she would not reply to email/text/phone. Eventually I disputed the deposit with my credit card and got my $ back. Maybe there were puppy issues but the fact that I couldn't get any response from her for weeks makes me highly suspect Paws Up North is just collecting $ with no intention of providing pups. |
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