feelings on cheating
My nephew just found out his girlfriend of 3 years, who he has lived with for 2 of those years, has been cheating on him with a guy we have known since he was in kinder, and someone we considered family. My nephew isnt close with his dad, my husband has always been more of a dad to him, so he has been talking to my husband for advice. He loves her and wants to make things work. They have been talking about getting married once he graduates from college which will be this December. He has been working extra hours as well as a lot of school stuff so I guess she was feeling lonely and this other guy kinda preys on that. She says they "havent done anything" just dancing and dinner, but he isnt sure he can trust her. What are your feelings on cheating--- I dont know if I would be able to forgive, I know I would never forget. Luckily I have never been put in this situation. Just sad all around. |
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| From seeing other married friends go through this, I can only say that each must make a concentrated effort to talk it all out, honestly and then they each need to decide if this is something they can live with the rest of their lives. A premarriage conselor may be the help they need to decide. I hope everything works out for them....  |
| thanks, I told my husband maybe the college he goes to has a counsler they could talk with. I just really never expected this from her, we all love her and consider her family. Hate to see my nephew hurting so much. |
| Cheating isn't all about the extent or even the existence of physicality of a relationship. If he or she feels she has cheated, been unfaithful, been deceitful, sneaking around, hiding a relationship AT ALL it was cheating. The question is was it a mistake or a conscious choice? It being a mistake is a VERY difficult thing to prove, nearly impossible once your faith in someone is shaken. Cheating is not likely a mistake, it's a conscious decision. If it was indeed a mistake, have they learned a lesson and changed their actions to prevent the same mistake from occurring again? That's the key. Sorry if this comes across as a double standard or sexist or whatever, but in my limited lifetime of experience, for what it's worth, when a woman cheats it means there is no solid relationship and sadly, the odds aren't in favor of a continued positive relationship. |
| My mom taught us men and women can be FRIENDS. If sneaking around is involved, to me it is cheating and becomes a trust problem. Always wondering.................If both people agree to counseling thru a counselor or clergy because they truly want to make the relationship work, great. Forgiving is one thing, forgetting isn't possible. That's just my opinion. |
| That is very sad. However strangely enough I was having a similar conversation with a friend of mine - whose parents have spilt up as the mom was having an affair. However during our conversation he was siding with his mom for various reasons, (I actually am not on anyone's "side") as I know both parents but as I said to him - no-one knows what goes on behind closed doors in anyones marriage/relationship. Cheating comes with various meanings, hurts and probably explainations - the question remains, is this something your nephew and partner can work on or does it mean that thats it? I was once asked whether I would prefer my boyfriend to have an affair or to spend one night with a woman of the night......my response as I had to decide which option and after thinking ....was a lady of the night (provided health tests etc were all clean) as it would be just for sex whereas an affair means so much more. The lady of the night and boyfriend would have their time together and walk away. The affair would lead to all sorts of hurts, lies, pain etc..... I really hope they are able to work things out in a way that works for them. |
| I've always held strong on one thing and that's cheating before marriage = done deal .......there shouldn't be exceptions. I consider it a "Thank GOD for opening my eyes" because things are different when you're married. Cheating after marriage = for the most part is also a done deal but ....I can see forgiveness ...just not sure I can do it, but I am open due to the many stories and real life events that have occurred in my life (not my relationship). I know it's hard for someone in a relationship to just give up on something they've invested so much in ...and aren't finished investing in ...but there's nothing that says disrespect than going to another man imo. If it were my child, I am positive they'd know how I already felt so past that... I would just listen to what they had to say and be there for them. I wouldn't continue to discourage them despite my strong feelings ....just pray nightly that they knew what they were doing and that God could give me strength to not make it so apparent I want to kill her when I saw her. |
| i only have one thing to say. ONCE A CHEATER ALWAYS A CHEATER |
thanks everyone, Im trying really hard to be supportive of my nephew and not going "off" on her. Trust me its hard. I just really never would have thought she or the other guy for that matter would do this. Oh I can see him cheating with another guys girl but not someone who is like a cousin to him. Needless to say he is NO longer considered family as far as Im concerned.  |
| It sounds like your nephew and hiis girlfriend are pretty young. At that age, does anyone really know what they want? I'm of the thought, that due to their ages, and the circumstances, that this is probably a blessing in disguise. It's a great big world out there and maybe your nephew (and his g/f) need to see more of it before they're able to commit, whether it's with each other or other people I look at this as a good thing that happened. He was able to see her for what she is, before they were married. It would have been ugly if it happened after they were married. I would encourage him to move on. Like Ali says, once a cheater, always a cheater. If he's a good guy, he doesn't need someone who would treat him like that in his life. Plus, it kinda sounds like the trust is gone. And if there is no trust & even just a hint of resentment, then the relationship is doomed. It's time for him to move on. Sorry if this comes across harshly. |
| Just my 2 cents. If they are old enough to consider marriage then she clearly knew better. It sounds like there has been a good amount of deceit, which in my book makes it cheating. She knew what she was doing was unacceptable, and thus lied about it. She put herself in the situation, for whatever reason, and that will likely happen again. Better he knows now than later when there are children involved. There are situations where people can overcome the distrust that results, but personally I think the vast majority of them are fooling only themselves. It is an extremely rare case when both parties are happy in the relationship after this happens. He may love her and want to stay together but IMHO he should learn to let go. Please remember it is never only one sided. Although we want to blame the cheating partner completely, it really truly takes 2. At some level she needed or wanted more than that relationship was able to provide her. Was that her shortcoming or his- we can't know. My advise is to let go and move on. It will hang over him for the rest of his life otherwise and he will always wonder. Shellie |
| I would say bin her . He is young & still a long way to got to find someone. She will do it again & it will hurt more if they had kids & maybe they are too young at the mo. Its a big wide world there & maybe she don't want to settle down yet. |
| I agree with the "time to let go" opinion. The first thing I thought of when you said he was just going to graduate from college in December is - WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?? They're what - 21-22? WAY too young. They haven't had enough life experiences yet to know what they will want for the rest of their lives. All they know so far is college and living together, with some part-time work thrown in the mix. Not real life. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I've seen too many people (and a lot from my own family) marry too young and the pressures did every one of them in. Cut your losses, and run. JMHO. |
| You said she "has been cheating" - as opposed to a single incident of really poor judgment. Which means she chose to continue with something she knew was inappropriate. A broken trust can't be fixed by a marriage license, it needs lots and lots of time and professional counseling. Not being privy to all the details, I would hesitate to say outright that he should dump her (though, in all honesty, my first instinct is to tell him to run away as fast as he can!) If they've been together 3 years now, it will surely take another 3 years of counseling to re-establish any genuine trust. Also, at 21 years old (or so), they both have a lot of changing and growing to do, much of which happens right out of college. Those first couple of years out of college are difficult enough without a new - and shaky - marriage to adjust to as well. As for your involvement, there is a distinction between supporting a family member, and acting as a genuine counselor. If you try to counsel just him, you'll never hear her view of the relationship. And if you counsel them both, you'll need to be prepared for the accusations of bias that will surely ensue when you don't agree with one or the other. If he is determined to save the relationship, they need the help of an unbiased professional counselor, and let the family provide love and support. Good luck! For the record, Hubby and I will be celebrating our 28th anniversary in a couple of weeks, and we were both 21 when we got married, so I know first-hand it can work. After plenty of ups and downs over the years, neither of us is where we expected to be (together or individually) when we got married. Through it all, however, we have never had a reason not to trust one another. Ever. |
| Just wondering..............does she think she was cheating or is that his interpretation of the situation. Mainly wondering as you said he was busy and she may have been lonely. The 'sneaking' comment makes me suspect she was being duplicitous. I was best mates with a guy in my couse while we studied, we hung out, stayed out late sipping coffee and talking b.s. and generally saved each others sanity. Our partners knew where we were though. My DH (now) was fine about it, it talk his partner some time to get to know me and realise we were just friends. He's now divorced and remarried, I'm still married to my partner of then. We're still great friends. I'd go with the counselling so they can sort out their feelings in a situation that is controlled. |
| They both sound really young, and not just because they are 21. I wonder what he expected her to do while he was so busy? Is she not equally busy with school/work? Or is she at a different stage, either focusing more on work or school, meaning she has more free time and more time to feel lonely. Is she expected to sit home and prepare things for her hope chest? Hang out only with other girls? Or her mother? I am not being sarcastic, just wondering what he thought she should be doing while he was so busy. Did she deliberately withhold the information or has he just been so caught up in what he has had to do that he never heard her? It sounds like his good friend may also have felt a bit lonely for your nephew. In a way, it is perfectly natural that two people who care so much about him (girlfriend, best friend) would feel his absence and would spend time together. Probably they did spend time together along with the boyfriend before he got so busy. Continuing to hang out together could honestly just be a natural extension of the friendship they developed with your nephew--or it could be that it started that way and now there are romantic sparks. There may or may not have been anything romantic or sexual going on. I can't tell from your OP. There may have been deliberate secrecy. It's pretty easy to jump to that conclusion and it may be just exactly what's been going on. Or maybe not. The first thing I think they should do is: slow down. Slow way down. |
| she is 26 and he is 25. She has a full time accounting job, he is getting his degree in December. She has been the one pushing marriage, he wants to wait till he gets his degree then finds a teaching job. She works extra hours during tax season so he had no reason to doubt her when she said she was working late, something just didnt feel right to him and that when he found the messages. The other guy is not this nephews close friend but one of my other nephews and he doesnt work in the same city, so he would drive 2 hours just to take her out. I also feel once a cheater always a cheater, my advice would also be to move on. I just dont think he is ready to hear that. No I havent talked to her to hear "her side", I really dont think I would be able to control my mouth if I did. I have 5 nephews and pretty protective of them even though the are all in upper to mid 20's. I still see the babies I took care of.  This guy also tried to "woo" my daughter last year. Again he is 27 and my daughter at the time was 18. Kinda creepy. He started sending her flowers and gifts and telling her how beautiful she was all the time, it creeped my daughter out. Shes known him since she was born, and she told him she saw him as a cousin. He finally got the hint and stopped. I think he is so desperate for a girlfriend he doesnt care who he hurts. Hes the type that has to have a pretty girl on his arm to make him feel like a man. I think my nephews gf got caught up in the attention he was showing her. He REALLY lays it on thick! I know this is on her too. I dont think I will ever be able to look at her the same. |
| This puts a new spin on it. She clearly made the conscious decision to cheat on multiple occasions. And I repeat, a marriage license is not a magic wand that makes something like this go away. My F-I-L had a 10-year affair while married to his first wife. After she left, he married the woman he cheated with, and proceeded to have an 18-year affair while married to her. (And she was surprised when she found out - puh-leeze!  ) Even if it is a case of the "other" guy pushing until she gave in, without serious counseling she is bound to fall into the same trap again and again, either with him or someone else. And that's no basis for a successful long-term relationship. |
| Based on the subject line I was expecting a poll. Feelings on cheating: for? against? indifferent? Depends who's doing it?  Kristine |
Well, Kristine, if you are conducting a poll, I'm against it.  Remember, "where there's smoke, there's fire". |
| same here they should go there own way. No point staying together he is in hurt mode & if she cared about him this would not even be here & still to young lots to do out there |
| I don't know where I got an age of 21 but I will chalk it up to not enough sleep. Still, both do sound young to me. It isn't completely clear to me if the nephew's GF was just hanging out with the long term friend (LTF) or if there were romantic stirrings from either side. Or physical involvement. For argument's sake: suppose it was just a case of the GF and the LTF hanging out together, as a continuation of how they hung out together with the nephew before he got to be so very busy. I would be hard pressed to think of this as cheating, myself and certainly not a 'once a cheater, always a cheater' kind of thing. I am a very firm believer that men and women can be in a platonic friendship that would likely include going out to eat and movies. If I liked to go out dancing, I could imagine that might be included as well and still be quite platonic. It does sound as though more than just a platonic friendship developed between GF and LTF, whether it was intended on her part or not. It sounds like the LTF has a history of going after females who are/should be considered off limits. I wonder if the GF knew about that. If the GF started spending more and more time with some other guy because her boyfriend/your nephew was so very busy, it does sound as though there are weaknesses in the relationship, and some immaturity all around. I understand feeling lonely and even neglected (my husband and I were married when he was in grad school---fortunately, I am fairly self sufficient) but someone who was very committed to her boyfriend would probably have found other ways/other people to occupy her time. And someone who is serious about wanting to keep a good, strong, loving relationship going with their significant other will find ways to spend some time and show attention and affection, even on a limited time/money budget. I think a lot of times people get very caught up in pursuing their own goals (school, career, whatever) and neglect their significant others and important relationships. I understand how that happens, but even a very justifiably very busy person needs to help maintain relationships or else risk losing the relationship. Without that, people grow apart, whether or not there are 3rd parties involved. |
| If it was a platonic relationship there would have been no deceit on her part and no suspicion on his. She clearly knew this was wrong all along. Sugar coating it will only cause a future divorce. Shellie |
| I don't agree that the fact that one person is suspicious means the other one is cheating. Sometimes, people can feel guilty because they aren't spending enough time with their significant other and then jump to the conclusion that their significant other is cheating. Some people are paranoid or controlling and accuse their significant others of cheating when there is no cheating at all. I am not saying this is the case here, but suspicion is not the same thing as proof. |
| Here's what in an ideal world you could say.... "If you think it hurts now to let her go, imagine how painful it would be to go through a divorce... and then splitting up a household with pets and/or children and losing almost all of your friends, all at the same time." sigh (I got engaged at 22 and married at 24, btw. ) |
| What I am saying is that if he is suspicious now, there are significant other problems than if she actually "cheated" or not. And please tell me why someone would be so deceitful of a situation if there was nothing to be ashamed of? If he is the controlling and jealous type, (and I'm not saying he is) then that is another red flag worthy of calling off a marriage. The simple fact that she was lying would lead him to further suspicion. And, if you recall, I said it takes two, and neither can be entirely to blame. And I never said it was proof that she is cheating, but I guess that all depends on her version of cheating, and clearly she felt something about it or she would have been up front with it and not lied. I would never even go out to lunch with another man without first telling my husband. I think if you put yourself into a potential situation you allow for problems. If you never allow for it, it never will happen. There is so much more to this than we can ever know-maybe even facts that would change all our opinions. The fact is, they are not yet even married. Do you really think starting off a marriage this way would be wise? I guess one in a billion marriages could survive it. Almost half end in divorce regardless. The facts we were given would make it seem, on a simplistic level, that this relationship is doomed. In an ideal world..... wouldn't we all like to live there someday. Shellie |
| I wasn't arguing that they should stay together. Actually, the opposite. They both seem young to me, and not very secure in their relationship, perhaps because of all of the long hours devoted to school and work, etc. Some people are jealous over nothing at all because of their own insecurities. Some people feel guilty as a reflex action. There was a period of time when I actually apologized to the furniture I bumped into (not a good period in my life, obviously, and nothing to do with any guy at all). It's even possible (not likely, but possible) that until the boyfriend discovered how much time his girl friend was spending with the other guy, the girlfriend never considered that it might not be ok with the boyfriend--because to her, it wasn't romantic at all-- and that sudden realization of how it looked to her boyfriend when he found out made her feel bad for hurting her boyfriend and for stepping over a line she hadn't realized she had crossed. That's not very likely, but it is possible. It does sound most likely that something inappropriate was going on. I agree. And no, that's not ok. And for the record, I've been married since I was 22. I've never cheated on anyone. |
| They might both benefit from some counselling. Even if it doesn't help keep this relationship together, it might help them learn some things so that they can each be stronger and healthier in the next relationship. |
| And just to add in - Todd and I met at age 21 and married 6 months later....and no, we didn't "have" to get married! We also had preemie twins the next year (a big relationship stressor for anyone) and made it through just fine. Happily married still for over 28 years now! |
| yes dawn, but you live in ideal world!!!!!  just kiddin, couldn't resist.  |
| Cheating is a done deal for both my fiance and I. Castration of my fiance and a bon fire of his belongings probably would be the first step. Then breaking up....Weve been together for 4 yrs and thats pretty much the only thing that would end us.(except murdering eachother, lol) Its a complete violation of trust, lack of respect and love for your partner. Theres no excuse for it. Did i mention that my fiance and i are the same exact ages as this couple and we both seem to grasp cheating= bad, no no. She should be mature enough at 26 to have an adult relationship and not run into the arms of anouther man when #### gets a little rough/lonely. Its a relationship, you get lonely, you have rough patches. If she is cheating now, i wouldnt expect her to change. |
got sheep wrote: And just to add in - Todd and I met at age 21 and married 6 months later....and no, we didn't "have" to get married! We also had preemie twins the next year (a big relationship stressor for anyone) and made it through just fine. Happily married still for over 28 years now! Chris and I started dating when I was 15 and him 16. High school sweethearts. We married when I was 21 and him 22. Been married 20 years now. Im happy to say we are still as happy now as then. Hard times yes, but you get through them together, not with another. Im really hoping my nephew walks away, but I cant decide that for him. I know the next family gathering will be a little tense if she is there. Also I have let the other guy know he should no longer consider himself part of this family.  |
Mady wrote: They might both benefit from some counselling. Even if it doesn't help keep this relationship together, it might help them learn some things so that they can each be stronger and healthier in the next relationship. Great advice! |
| coounseling was the advice I gave him. They dont have a lot of money so I told him to see if his college maybe offers something. Just spoke with him tonight and he is hoping to work things out. All I can do is support him and be there for him and pray he isnt making a big mistake. He is sure it wasnt a sexual thing, she said she just felt like he wasnt giving her enough attention and needed someone to talk with. Still no excuse for her sneakiing around. Im still pretty upset but its not my place to judge her. Ill just be here for him. I have 5 nephews and love each one like a son. and Lord help ANY girl who pulls this on my son!!! My son is only 13 so I hope I have a few years before I have to worry about this with him.  |
| Most universities do offer counseling for free or at a very reduced cost. Depending on where you live, free/reduced counseling might also be available through your county health department. Also, if he is a member of a church, possible the pastor there might provide counseling or be able to refer him to a free/reduced cost source of counseling. I understand her feeling lonely with him being so busy, but I have to wonder at her choice of companionship and/or way to occupy her time. It seems like a mature person in a committed relationship would have spend time with family and female friends and groups of friends instead of one on one with some other guy. Or spent time taking classes, working more hours to save up for the future, or volunteering, etc. This is the part that made me think of her as being 'young.' A person who was more mature and/or more confident would have found more constructive ways to use her time, and better companionship. I wonder if consciously or not, she didn't leap upon this long term friend's attention to provoke a response from your nephew. Again, this speaks to immaturity and a level of neediness that doesn't bode well for any relationship she has. It would be good if she would get some counseling, as well. Separate from your nephew. They may have issues they need to address together, but certainly your nephew could use the support of counseling without the girlfriend. She needs a lot of help to figure out why she's so insecure and unable to find constructive ways to use her time. The lesson I learned regarding my kids' love life is that I can't do anything useful about it. At least not directly. All I could do was to be there to listen and to be supportive. And to keep in mind that this is about how they were feeling, not about how angry I was about them being wronged. The best thing to do is to be supportive of your kids (and nephews) in all aspects of their lives and to be there as a shoulder/ear when needed and to quickly develop amnesia afterwards. |
| spoke with my nephew last night. He has moved out and back home for now till he can get his own place. He said he felt she wasnt really owning up to what she did and until he felt she was 100% into THEIR relationship he felt it was best to move out. I agree. I think he is past the hurt part and now the angry part is starting. All part of healing. Thanks for everyones input, glad to see pretty much everyone feels that cheating is a done deal. |
| It sounds like he's really starting to think this through. In the end, he'll just have to do what he feels is best, and what he can live with. Best wishes to him! |
| While I really was holding out hope that it wasn't as bad as it sounded, I am REALLY glad he has decided to take some time at least to think it through. Good or bad, stay or split, at least he won't feel like he rushed the decision. GOOD FOR HIM! Shellie |
Ryleigh wrote: He said he felt she wasnt really owning up to what she did and until he felt she was 100% into THEIR relationship he felt it was best to move out. Good for him. A little distance and "me time" should help him immensely. |
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