Why isn't he houstrained yet!
And these are all regular pee/poops ('scuse me) so it's not like he is sick and had to do it. Does anyone have any suggestions? We are doing all we can, I think, to try and prevent these accidents, but they just don't seem to phase Barney. HELP!!! |
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| Have you tried using a crate?? |
| I would suggest crate training as well, and just start from scratch as if he were a new pup just coming home. It is frustrating when they don't housetrain reliably, and I think some never do if they never learn to give some kind of signal, my girl Dancer is like that, though Sky is starting to bounce around at the door to let me know. She is 11 months old though....lol.... |
| Does he seem otherwise upset that he's being left alone in the kitchen? The reason I ask is because I was having the same problem with Clyde at night but it was also accompanied with all night barking and howling. Finally I couldn't stand not sleeping anyonre and brought him upstairs and he's been great all night ever since. But, if that isn't the case, I'd suggest trying crate training too. For awhile, it was the one place we knew we were safe from accidents!
Also, check out the thread on teaching him to ring a bell. That's what we did with Clyde (who was also a nightmare to housetrain) and it has worked awesome. |
I can't believe Clyde knows how to ring a bell! 
We have tried crate training and basically gave that up because it became more of a problem than when we just let him out of it. We tried for about a month. We would crate Barney during the day (I would leave around 8:15 and be back at lunch time, and then leave and be back around 6, so he was never in there more than 4 hours at a time) and he would have an accident in his crate I would say maybe 3 out of the 5 days, usually in the 2nd half of the day. So we took out his cushy bedding and replaced it with just a towel. Kept having accidents. So we took out the towel and all soft toys and he kept having accidents (we would, meanwhile, have cleaned the crate thoroughly and with bleach so theoretically the smell would not still be there to stimulate him to go again). So we were tired of almost every day cleaning up his mess so we left him in the kitchen (tile floors and baby-gated so he was very limited as to where he could go) and things were much better than with the crate. I think he has some separation anxiety issues. And we would only crate him during the day, not at night. At night we would just leave him in the kitchen. We felt like it would be too much time in his crate if we also had him sleep in there. My parents' sheepdog LOVES her crate--it is her safe haven and she sleeps in there (open door) and when she has done something bad (like eat my sandwich the other day!!) she'll automatically go in there, so I assumed Barney would love his crate just the same, but boy was I wrong! We eventually got tired of waking up to poop in the kitchen, so we tried crating him for the night and he HOWLED and BARKED ALL.NIGHT.LONG. So that didn't last long. And he never makes any noise at night while he's in the kitchen normally. So I'm not sure crate training is going to work for him. And his accidents are sporadic, which is even more frustrating because we know he has the ability to hold it and just seems like he just doesn't care and will do it anywhere. ButtersStotch, I think our dogs are soul brothers...ha ha--Barney and Clyde!  |
| Hmmmmmmmmmm, he's a tough one. Maybe 7:30 is too late. I am up with my dogs at 5:30 every morning (weekends included). How late at night is his last trip out? when does he tend to mess more night or day? Are you feeding him once or twice a day? At his age I would think he would be down to one or two BM's a day............. is he eating tooo much? |
| We feed him twice a day--once at about 7:30 in the morning (or earlier) and then once at night, between 6 and 6:30. We feed him a scoop and a half of puppy food (regular-sized coffee mug) with about a tablespoon or two of cottage cheese. We then take him out after each feeding and he does his business thoroughly, as far as we can tell. He'll also usually poop if we take him out for walks (this is in addition to his after meal ones, but on the days that we run out of time to walk him (we have a big yard where he plays, so he gets exercise no matter what) he doesn't poop the extra time (and that doesn't have any connection with whether or not he poops in the house--like if he only pooped on non-walk days or something).
Our last night trip is about 10pm. We were getting up earlier than 7-7:30, like closer to 6-6:30, but for a while there weren't any accidents when we waited until later, so that is why it started getting later. And it isn't all the time, but enough to be really frustrating. Like if it happened once, then it would be an unfortunate accident, but nothing really to think about, but since it has been happening more and more, instead of less and less, that is why I am concerned and baffled!  |
| I'm sure it must be VERY frustrating!!!!! Sounds like a pretty good schedule . I take mine out at 10:00 PM for the last time and then as I said we go out around 5:30 AM. On the weekends I usually take the puppy out then go back to sleep. It seems to help if I stick to exactly the same schedule. I never had a dog that would soil the crate although I guess it isn't as uncommon as I thought. Wish I had some magic advice for you, maybe someone else can come up with something. |
| Boy, I can definitely commiserate. Clyde was the same way. In the last month or so, he's only had a couple of accidents and I genuinely believe it was because he couldn't hold it. I never thought he'd get the bell...but he did and I don't know what we'd do without it! Unfortunately, he now uses it just to go outside asnd run around so now we crate him when he doesn't go and then wait 15 minutes, ring the bell and take him out again. He's caught on to this and goes the second time, everytime.
For awhile, I felt like you did too. He'd just do a sporadic pee or poop (though those incidents were much less often) and I was at my wits end and thought he'd never get better. He wouldn't give a signal and didn't act any different in the house. If we left him in the crate, he'd go nuts and pee. If we left him in the kitchen at night, he'd go nuts and pee. Turns out he just wanted to be close to us and was going through some major separation anxiety. Your situation sounds very similar. He seems happier all around and started making it a lot longer. Do you think that might be Barney's problem too? He's just missing you all day and is peeing because he's upset? |
| Would you please post a picture of your bell set up? I'm trying to picture a way to do it without them being able to eat it...lol.... |
He pooped AND peed in the kitchen this morning.  AND, we got up earlier to check on him just in case Tasker's Mom was right in thinking that he might not be able to hold it this long...
I do think that Barney has some separation anxiety. I don't know what his home life was like before we got him, but I suspect that it didn't include a lot of attention. The woman bred small dogs and she gave Barney up because he was too big and clumsy for her little dogs, so I think that she probably left him alone a lot. I don't think she mistreated him, just didn't give him enough love or attention. I don't know how we can give him much more attention with our current schedules. With his unpredictable potty behavior and the cats, it doesn't seem feasible to bring him to the bedroom at night. And we work (or are in school) so those schedules can't be changed. I already come home at lunch for him. When we leave the house (or even just go outside through the front door, even if it is just to get the mail and we leave the door open and Barney can see us, Barney barks and barks and just plain goes nuts. He'll calm down the second we come inside. He has seemed okay overnight when we leave him in the kitchen (he doesn't bark or make much of any noise. A good test for this was when he had to wear the halo collar after his surgery and he banged into anything and everything when he moved so we'd hear it, and we didn't hear a thing. He has been, for the most part, pretty good all night long, being able to hold with without accidents. Our schedule is pretty set, give or take a few minutes and it has worked overall. It has just been this past week or so that things have really gone downhill and the occasional accident has turned into the everyday (or more than once a day) accident. And that is what is frustrating. We thought he was learning the routine and was learning that going inside is bad, but apparently not. We crated him this morning again. The thing I hate about that is that he hates the crate so much that it feels like we are punishing him (which the crate shouldn't feel like) but we have no choice. If we put a treat in there to entice him, he'll try to only go in as far as he needs to o grab it, and then try to back out super fast. Ugh. It is just very frustrating. |
Willowsprite wrote: Would you please post a picture of your bell set up? I'm trying to picture a way to do it without them being able to eat it...lol....
Lol. Sure, I'll take one tonight if I remember. They're a bunch of jingle bells on a thick piece of twine attached to a hook. I think the key to them not eating it is the strategy of how the bell works. As soon as he touches it, he goes out, which, unfortunately means you have to watch pretty carefully to get the association of bell=outside to stick. I never gave Clyde time to eat it because as soon as he made an effort to, he was going out. It took a little over a week for him to really understand. It might be a little harder since you have 2 though. My other one is all the way trained and doesn't need the bell (although she'll use it if she's by the door now!) so it was easier to target Clyde. |
| i'M SOOOO SORRY, THIS IS REALLY TOUGH!! Can you make a fenced dog run for him outside for daytime? Is it feasible to take him into the bedroom and tether him near the bed? Would he stay in the crate if it was in your bedroom and he could see you???? Just brainstorming. |
| Barney1:
Yup, Clyde is definitely his soul brother. He also used to go nuts whenever we stepped outside too. Also, I knew he could make it all night but he also would go in the kitchen if we left him down there. Did I mention he also drools excessively when he's upset? The whole floor would be a mess of pee and drool when I'd come down in the morning. Despite that, I brought him upstairs as a test (when I couldn't take the barking anymore) and he didn't drool, pee or anything. It really sounds to me like he's lonely and the going in the house is his way of striking out. Our trainer actually suggested it after I told her what a problem we were having and suggested bringing him closer to us. SHe said it was that age where he wanted to be with us all the time. Could you bring the crate in your room or closer to you in some way? I know it sounds crazy, but after we brought him upstairs, and Clyde became a better dog all around. He was happier, listened better and his all around housetraining improved. We also stopped going home for lunch because it seemed to upset him more when we left-- he also seemed to have afternoon accidents when we did. Now, he makes it from 8 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. with no problem. Oh, one other thing, is he getting enough exercise? We also hired a dog walker once a week, which he loves and breaks up a long day. Lol. I guess the reason I keep suggesting trying it is because our pups sound so much alike! It just seems like Barney should respond the same! I hope it gets better for you. Jill |
| We haven't tried having him in the bedroom, mostly because it is upstairs and we figured keeping him close to the back door (where the kitchen is located) would be ideal so he wouldn't be tracking his accidents all through the house, and the cats excite him and they sleep in the bedroom. And they were here first, so we feel a little like we need to make sure they feel they have their own space (which upstairs is). And if Barney was in his crate upstairs and they were too, then they would sit and tease him and make him crazy. And so far the novelty of the cats has not worn off for Barney, so even after 2 1/2 months of co-existence, Barney still goes crazy for them, and they lead him on.
I know, I keep trying to think of all sort of scenarios to try and fix this. And I am 99% sure that it isn't a medically-related reason he is doing this. His poops and pees all look normal, and he just had blood tests and everything at the vet 3 weeks ago when he was neutered. |
| When you ask him if he wants to go out, I'll assume he gets excited. When you get to the door, do you have him speak. Or, does he "know" the speak command? Have you picked up the poop and taken it and him outside and placed it on the ground in front of him? Praise him for doing his business outside, not when he comes back in the house. I always taught mine "you gotta poop/pee pee" in combination with "wanna go out", followed by having them speak at the door. That way they were learning "where" outside was, and then when outside, what "poop and pee pee" meant. Speaking, was the signal to get out. Although, there were many times they'd walk up to me and just stare like, "WELL, let's go!" If, I didn't get the message, they's get more excited and then speak or start walking toward the door.
Sometimes we do things ourselves that cause the problem. I had a female once that was on such a regular schedule that it cost a puppy its life. It was only a few days old. She was use to hearing my alarm and knew that the first thing I did was let them outside. So, when the alarm went off, she jumped up and stepped on one of her babies. I learned then to alter the timing a bit. On the days you're home, do you let him out several times between the hours that you're normally at work? If so, that could possibly be why he can't hold it as long on the other days. Did you ask the other owner what his signal was for going out. He could be waiting on you to "speak". lol They do that very well. Good luck. It can be a long journey to success. |
| All very good questions!
Our usual 'conversation' that we have with Barney is to ask him "wanna go outside...Outside?" So that we are assuming that he is learning 'outside' as the key word. Sometimes he gets excited, sometimes he doesn't. Like last night, he was moving around a little more than usual, and although it wasn't yet time for his 'last call' we took him out. My fiance asked him, Barney, do you wanna go outside, several times without much enthusiasm by Barney, but he ended up going to the bathroom when they reached the spot. So, once we take the dog out and reach 'the spot' we say, Barney, do your business, pee barney, or poo Barney, and then when he does we say lots of good boys and scratches and stuff. On the days that we aren't at work, we try to generally keep to the same schedule; however, it usually means we take him for more walks which means giving him more water, which means more frequent peeing, so I think on days that I am not working there is an extra bathroom break in there, but I'm not sure if that is the problem since the majority of his accidents are found in the morning. Also, he is a very stubborn dog, definitely does not always want to do what we say. As for his previous owner, she was very strange and she didn't even say goodbye to him when he left. I went for the initial visit and she brought him out onto her front porch (poor puppy was still damp from a bath) and I was asking all the standard questions that I figured one would ask (shots, neutered, hip dysplasia, etc) and she was very defensive, which was strange since she breeds dogs that you'd think she would be used to/expecting questions like that. So, at that time I hadn't decided on him yet, but then when I did, my parents had to pick him up (I live in Virginia and the dog was in California), so we didn't ask her about the 'signa;' he uses. Well, at least we were poop free this morning! My mom actually suggested that maybe it was because he was upset that I went out of town. I was gone Friday-Monday night, so maybe it upset him that I wasn't around, even though my fiance was still here... |
Entirely possible that he is upset over your change in schedule and being gone. They are very aware of what goes on around them. One more suggestion: try to use the same word all the time and limit the number of words. For example, it isn't necessary to way "do you want to go outside?" Just use the word "outside" as a question. Chose one word such as "potty" and use that consistently. Once they get the "word" you can use it in a sentence. Since they haven't had grammer it doesn't really matter if you sentence structure is correct  (sorry couldn't resist that!) |
| Clyde is NEVER excited about going outside. Now that we've completely fenced in the yard, he likes to go out and run around but even if we try to build him up, he still just calmly stands there. Sometimes, even though I know he's ready to go, he looks annoyed like we're pushing him or something. Then once he's outside he's all happy again. Ironically, he won't scratch at the door to go out, but he'll go nuts trying to get back in. Goofy.
Very good point about the schedule change. Yesterday I got hung up at work for an extra hour and Clyde knew it. He literally exploded out his crate and was all wound up all night-- and he wouldn't leave my side. They are very aware of changes, it always continues to surprise me. |
Since Barney (so far, no jinx, please!) seems better today, I am hoping that the horrible last few days was related to me going away (I feel so loved  )
Clyde and Barney do sound very similar. The one night that we crated him all night long, he barked and barked and when we came downstairs in the morning it was hard to tell if he had peed or not, but it turned out that he had just drooled a ton all over himself and the crate! And he doesn't drool when we are nearby. He also LOVES to come back inside (jumps and scratches at the door) but doesn't do anything to show emotion when on the inside headed out. Of course he loves it once he's out there. So funny. We try to give him enough exercise. It is usually a short walk in the morning and then a longer one (which really tires him out) in the evening. I agree, the walks definitely help. Right when we first got him it was really rainy out (for like 3 weeks!) and we couldn't really take him walking as much as we wanted, but now that the weather has improved and hasn't quite reached a million degrees yet, the walks are great for all of us. Quote: Since they haven't had grammer it doesn't really matter if you sentence structure is correct (sorry couldn't resist that!)
Taker's Mom--you are so funny! I am a professional proofreader, so I am all about the grammar! Didn't occur to me that I am trying to correct my puppy's sentences! Jill- I think I might try and bring up Barney in his crate to our room at night and see what that does. I guess it's worth trying. And the goal is to eventually have him sleep with us anyways, so I'm sure it will help to have him up there. And maybe not coming home for lunch, either. Because Barney is definitely more upset when we leave at lunchtime than when we leave in the morning (most are afternoon accidents). The only problem with that is my fiance is in med school and has a very lenient schedule, so he often comes home at strange times or stays home and studies, so I don't know if that would mess Barney's schedule up. Anyways! Thanks for all the suggestions, and mostly, just trying to figure my crazy poopy puppy out! |
| I thought the same thing-- he drooled so much on himself I could tell if peed because he stunk from it! The similarities between our boys is creepy! Do you know where he came from? Clyde's background is a long story-- I tried to find his breeder, only to find out that she was no longer at that address, blah, blah, blah, more digging to find info (I wound up getting a great lineage for him) but then I gave up. I got Clyde from a pet store, who got him from someone that a person at work knew who had gotten him from a breeder and just didn't want the work that a puppy brings. They sold him to the pet store before I could get ahold of them myself so I went and rescued him from the pet store. I think they may have altered the papers because I have a feeling he was from a breeder that required the puppy be returned if they didn't want him but they didn't want to lose their money. People are jerks. Although it cost me a ton of money, in this case, I'm glad those people were jerks because now I have Clyde.
Anyway, back to the subject. Bringing him in the bedroom might work out better than you think. Honestly after Clyde's nightly accidents, I fully expected them to keep occurring upstairs but I had to see for sure. I was pleasantly surprised that he was fine-- he loves sleeping in the bathroom! |
Tasker's Mom wrote: One more suggestion: try to use the same word all the time and limit the number of words.
I had a female years ago that I when I would give her commands, I would always include her name. Such as "Keshia, down" etc. I didn't realize until later that I was also including an extra word occassionally. I would tell her to do something and if she didn't do it, I'd say "Now!" lol Well, I soon learned that when she didn't obey the command, it was because she was waiting on me to say "now", as soon as I did, she obeyed. So our choice of words, or lack of them, are very important. I almost think that if your guy is being let out the kitchen door to the yard, that he is trying to do the right thing, but since he can't get out the door, he goes as close to his "Spot" as he can, which happens to be your kitchen floor. (Unless, he's going in other places) By taking him to the bedroom with you, if he does alright and you take him out as soon as you get up, he would probably show a little more excitement about going out if he's held it all night. Maybe that would help you teach him the "outside" command you want him to associate with it. I raised puppies for years and found out that the easiest way to house train a litter of puppies was by using their mother to do it. By, this time she already had all the phrases down, so I'd tell her "wanna go out, go pee pee" that way the pups were learning the words and as I let mom out of the kennel, she'd ruun to the door, all 8 - 10 puppies would follow, and after a few trips, as soon as they all got outside, mom and 10 babies are all squatting at the same time and it is adorable. Gotta be fast though. lol good luck hope he's a good boy. |
| Mouthy,
I was thinking the same thing about the kitchen accidents, and it might be true, I just wish they were closer to the door, which would lead me to believe he has the intent to go outside. Jill, Barney (as far as his papers say, which, by the way, he decided the munch on during his flight out to Virginia, so they are hard to read in some palces  ) is from Missouri. I got him from a woman in California who bought him from a pet store, which got him from the puppy mill in Missouri. Their name is Noah's Kennels in Plato Missouri. His mom is Scarley O'Hara and his dad is Sir Gallahad. Great names...
I know, our boys have so much in common! Too bad we don't live closer...it'd be interesting to see these 2 goofs together! |
| Hi, we have just got an old english sheep dog. He is 14 weeks old, we got him at 11 weeks, we`ve called him bobby. the constant problem we are having is that he is peeing and pooping in the house, even while we are in the room with him. He does do his buisness outside, but then comes in and does more. Through the night he has been quite good. The odd time he has had accidents but truthfully only if we are up later than his routine. He has even jumped onto the sofa next to us and without warning peed, not long after being out. He is real soft and great with the kids so we feel aweful because we are having to gate him in the kitchen where it easier to clean up after him. We paid a lot of money so we knew he would come from a good background. Its just very frustrating that he is constantly messing even in front of us. We read that its a good idea to `cage` train puppies. So we bought the biggest and best for him. He has since peed in it twice. He has just had his second injection so he cannot go for walks until monday. We can`t wait to take him for walks. Please can someone help, has anybody overcome the same problems we are having. Will it get better, please give us hope.he also eats his poop is that normal xx |
| Welcome to the forum
He really is too young to expect much progress with housetraining, they don't even have control of the muscles till about 16 weeks, before that it is strictly a matter of you sticking to a routine and taking him out often enough. Even then, at that age it is reasonable to expect accidents. First I would suggest, be patient and stick to it, be consistent. Also, take up his water at about 8 or 9 pm, and most importantly make his crate smaller. He should only be able to turn around and lay down. No bigger. If it is big enough for him to pee in one end and sleep in another, he will, and if he does that often enough it will ruin his "keep the den clean" instincts. I messed up on housetraining with my girl Dancer, but when Sky came along I bought a very small crate, and then got a bigger one as she got older, bigger, and more reliable. Crate training DOES work.... but you need to be consistent above all else, well, maybe patient first....lol..... He's young yet. Ignore accidents for the most part, bu tons of praise when he does his business outside. Try staying out with him longer, if he is peeing outside then coming in and peeing more, maybe stay out a few more minutes and when you praise him "good boy go pee!" then maybe encourage him to do it again. I taught my girls the command "hurry up go pee" and then "good girl go pee!" because in the winter you don;t want to be standing out there forever waiting for them to pee. It took a long time, I think my girl Dancer was 9 months before she was reliable, and even then she would have an accident if I slacked off on routine and didn't get them out on time. Sky, my younger dog, trained more quickly, and more reliably... maybe because of mistakes I had learned form with Dancer. Good luck! Please let us know how it goes, and pics! |
| As for when to take him out, we started out by taking ours out everytime a commercial came on tv. Sometimes a little overkill but at least you won't forget to take him out or not realize how long it's been since you've had him out. What seems like not that long to us can be an eternity for a pup. |
| We're having some similar problems with Harley, a 3 1/2 year old rescue. We've had him for three weeks now, but housetraining is really difficult.
We keep him in a crate when we're gone and at night for now since he's not reliable with pottying outside. For the first week we had his crate in our laundry room, but he barked and barked, so we tried it in our bedroom-- MUCH better! He has never pottied in his crate, so that is something to be thankful for, but the barking stopped once he was in our room. We still wake up some to his "shuffling" in his crate-- his toenails on the plastic make sure we're up in the morning. At least he's not barking anymore, though. So, moving his crate to your room might really help-- also try with or without a blanket over the top to create darkness and a "den" for him. Just being able to hear our voices when we talk in bed helps Harley. He also knows now that we are still in the room, so he's not so anxious. Eventually we want to get rid of the crate at night, and I think he'll do even better as far as sleeping, but we're just not ready to risk it because of the potty issue.
We have our biggest housetraining issues when we're home with him-- he doesn't give a signal, and he LOVES to go outside, so he'll run to the door whether he has to go or not. There's not much of a pattern to his pottying, either, so it's hard to figure out a good schedule. Hang in there (pep talk for both of us). I hope it gets better soon for us! |
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