two different dogs, same error - can you see why?
This is Sybil in her Excellent JWW run yesterday. Dog were supposed to enter the tunnel on the left. She veered off and took the entrance on the right. Can you see why? (Excuse missed beginning, my fault - instead halt and rerun and then pause first few seconds until you can tell me why she did what she did. Because it was handler error for sure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUEUD8tx ... B1B4661Tv8 (I also overran the third to last jump as I had forgotten about that last turn until the last moment and thought we were supposed to take a jump off camera straight ahead of us. Sybil compensated for me when I remembered at the last moment. Good puppy!) What really got me is that Macy, even though I started her differently, did the same thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&featu ... gmrHs6oSXA Can you see why? No? Explanations so far: 1) Sybil, who ran first, told her it was supposed to be the right tunnel entrance 2) her top knots were in too tight   But I'll stand corrected if someone can come up with a better explanation  I pulled her off the jump after the triple - can you see why? (I ran most of it pretty haphazardly as I was still laughing about our tunnel experience) Kristine |
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I don't feel like I can see enough of the start of Sybil's run my pause is too slow. I would have said you were too far ahead of Macy and had already crossed over her "line of drive" (don't know what you call it in agility, I'm using a chiro term  ) thereby executing a blind cross, but that doesn't seem to be the case with Sybil, so I'm stumped. |
stop Sybil video almost as soon as you start it and move it back to approx 0.31 seconds in (in stopped mode it will give you a freeze from of what dumb handler was doing Hint, look at my right arm  )I thought at first that I may have been too ambiguous with Mace as I do a lot of blind crosses with her/ But only if I hadn't dropped a shoulder or had dropped the WRONG shoulder should she have taken that liberty. She had a clear left tunnel entrance indication.  Kristine |
| I don't do agility, so I'm watching with a novice eye. With Macy, it looks like when you signal the left entrance, your right arm swings out as well. If you stop the video at 0:19, just as she's heading over the jump, she looks focused on your right arm rather than your left. That's the only thing I could see. Unless you're right, and Sybil told her to do it! |
| Sorry didn't get back last night. Tell me what you should have done. I'm still not really getting it. For reasons known only to my dumb laptop I don't have the control over the video that you seem to have but really I'm just not experienced enough as a handler to understand the nuances. I only signal with the arm on the same side as the dog, is that a common method? |
Mim wrote: I only signal with the arm on the same side as the dog, is that a common method? Yes. Some times both arms are involved though. in the case of a false turn (also known as a reverse flow pivot) or when "pre-cueing" a front cross or a wrap. I do a fair amount of blind crosses with Mace where you WANT the dog to cross behind you (which she did) HOWEVER, this normally only happens when you shift sides and drop the OTHER shoulder back to pick the dog up on the new side (so still using arm closest to dog) OR, by mistake, as in you don't drop ANY shoulder back to pick up the dog and dog is looking at two flapping arms and has to pick, giving you a 50-50 chance she will choose correctly, and your agility instuctor a dozen more gray hairs I thought that was what I had done, but looking at it I did drop the correct shoulder to "pick her up" over that jump, as I was ahead of her. HOWEVER I didn't do so until she was basically over the jump. Maybe she saw the ambigious moment over the jump or even before and made up her mind then and there where she was going. Emphasizing the importance of good timing. She doesn't make last 1/100s of a second corrections the way her sister does - which in Sybil's case bit me in the derriere as she was on track to take the correct tunnel entrance when SOMEONE got all loosey-goosey with her arm and flung it out. My poor dogs Small wonder Sybil has a lawyer on retainer Kristine |
Jonsey wrote: I don't do agility, so I'm watching with a novice eye. With Macy, it looks like when you signal the left entrance, your right arm swings out as well. If you stop the video at 0:19, just as she's heading over the jump, she looks focused on your right arm rather than your left. Basically what I just described to Mim. I'm not 100% sure that's what happened, but I do know you've got a good eye! Nice catch. Kristine |
| Thank you for the explanation. I'm still in too basic a class to have even heard of a reverse flow pivot. I'm still trying to convince Tiggy that if I stop and have my shoulders square then she should at the very least slow down and preferably she might even like to stop beside me.  Tiggy however is not convinced that stopping is a good idea.  |
| Well I'm not Pam but here is my 2 cents worth anyway. I would have started with the dog on my left and shown the entrance to the left side of the tunnel with left arm. I see you did this with Macy but I swear I came up with this before I saw you switch your lead out side with her. With Macy doing the same thing and heading to the right side of the tunnel, one wonders if she had been talking to Sybil about the course??? But I do see that you dropped your left arm and then had to raise it back up again and were just a tiny bit late and she had already made up her mind which direction to take at that point. I might have supported the tunnel entry with the left arm all the way to the tunnel without dropping it? Perhaps your cross at the jump after the triple was not close enough to the jump standard? The cross was very definite and pretty much told Macy to turn and being a good girl, she did - immediately! Just my opinion. Would love to have your feedback on my feedback. I am envious of your being able to run ahead of your dogs. Even if I lead out 3 jumps with Hudson, he is so fast (and I am so slow) that he is ahead of me in 3 seconds! I can only catch up at the contacts where he is trained to stay there and wait for me to catch up. Not ideal but it has to work that way for us. I'm unhappy that we live 1500 miles apart as I would have so enjoy being able to go to agility trials together! Linda Zimmerman |
 Yes, I think you are correct re the tunnel entrance and Mace already locking in before my body physically committed to the left entrance. She's too honest to do her own thing, it's just harder to see than what I did to make her sister take the wrong entrance. It's kind of odd for me to have both dogs who totally pace themselves to me - well, Sybil is starting to pick it up, but the way AKC courses have become (often tight and almost inevitably very twisty) it's actually to my advantage. Too, both of them, though Sybil probably more so, are completely in tune to my every twitch (absolutely correct on your assessment of the jump after the triple and Mace pulling off) which is both a blessing and a curse, because your handling deficiencies are constantly there for the entire world to see Of course, Sue keeps telling me that because of the velcro-ness I have to run faster. Okey-dokey, Sue Then again I ran that entire course pretty half-hearted after the tunnel fiasco, especially with Macy, where I was still laughing up until she entered the weaves. But Sue saw the video and sure enough I heard about it indirectly in class this week Of course, in many instances I really can pick it up. But with Sybil it's becoming more of a struggle and I'm not as daring as I used to be with some of my crosses and am starting to fall back on rear crosses which (in our case) I often consider our chicken default cross. She's taken me out a few times when my timing was bad <vbg> They'll never be the speed demons their Mom was in her day. Then again, if Mad was still competing we'd probably still be trying to get out of novice and the bar setters would be cursing my name They really are fun to run. It didn't start out that way - they were both so different from Mad I was pulling my hair out at times. After a while I began to realize I could really exploit some of those differences to our advantage, and at that point it started to click. I've also never had an OES who can collect like Sybil can; Mace, not so much. Consequently Syb can cut lots of yardage off our runs and save time that way. In the past I've always thought of running an OES as akin to driving an 18 wheeler But she's really changed my perception of what is possible even with bigger dogs. It's a learning experience, for sure. Lovin' it.Wish you were closer, too...imagine...it would be so much fun! Kristine |
| Well, yes. I see why Syb entered the wrong side. Macy, not so much. I see that behavior in Chewie every once in awhile though, and I see it as he already had made up his mind that it's the way the course should go! No matter WHAT I am saying or cuing! Thank goodness it doesn't happen often. BTW - I showed Todd what the setup was, and his opinion was he followed Sybil's scent trail....  I also rewatched the missed jump after the triple (yep, I LOVE video for this!) and with Sybil you were set up better and flowed into the pocket better. With Mace she was slower and you decelled on the approach, also didn't go as far into the pocket. So sucked her right back to you.  Nice site and great video taking ability there too! |
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