Whatever happens -No One gets left behind
He was offered a job either in Shanghai, China or Paris . Now are options are: Move to Paris as we nixed China due to not being able to take all the animals. THAT IS THE FIRST THING WE BOTH CHECKED IF WE HAVE TO MOVE ABROAD. (I know most would jump at the option of moving to Paris but our priority is the animals and thus means we would need a place on the outskirts and more importantly a country that would allow them to come.) France allows import of family pets (including birds, bunnies and guinea pigs provided they have vet certificates) For dogs and cats they need Pet Passports in order to travel around the EU - this means all have to be microchipped/have rabies shots for dogs and FIV plus rabies for cats. All animals need vet certificates as well regarding clean bill of health. We are talking about 30 animals. Horrible but doable but really worry about Gilligan as he's getting old. Okay that's okay so far as all 11 cats and 4 dogs are done (Although as most of the cats don't go outdoors some need their rabies cost). Egads can you imagine the logistics of moving all those animals oversees? Kaj, God Bless him is in total agreement with me regarding - we don't go anywhere unless they are coming with us. Worse case scenerio would be for me to stay here should any animal not be allowed (aka Gilligan) until it was time to say goodbye. The other option is: If he takes his chances and tried to get another job here with another company in the same field. Today, he has an appointment to talk to recruiters. NO ANIMALS GET LEFT BEHIND..... IF WE MOVE WE TAKE ALL OF THEM - AND YES THAT INCLUDES THE CHICKENS. I'm heartsick over the whole thing as moving to another country means leaving my family, friends and life as I know it behind. Of course he did that for me when he moved here from Holland to be with me. The one positive note is since I was born in France (moved to Canada at age 6) I have duel citizenship and can work oversees. Okay that's it. We have two weeks to make our decision. |
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| Marianne, I applaud your stance about your animals. My advice would be for Kaj to take the severance package and find another job without having to move out of the country. If he's already talking to headhunters, the chances are good they will find something for him. Sending positive thoughts your way. |
| Wow.What tough decisions to make! |
| I will keep my fingers crossed that Kaj can find something there. You have your beautiful home and your animals are happy so that would be the best case senario but we all know the fur kids will be considered first. |
| That is a tough decision--wow! Sounds like you all have thought through the most important parts! Wishing you the best as you make this tough decision. |
| Oh dear, that is quite a monkey wrench. You waited so long to get the perfect place and get everything just so. You worked so hard to make it what you wanted. I am so sorry this is happening. I do think Kaj has a really great chance at finding something here. As long as that is what he wants to do. I didn't think for a second you'd leave anyone behind - and I can't imagine you leaving your family and friends and everything. This will work out, you'll see. I have faith. This will be just another stepping stone in your path. I am thinking about you. Shellie |
 Just wanted to let you know we're all thinking about you!!! |
| I don't know Kaj's work field, or your job market out there...but I would do the search and see if there are any likely jobs available in your area. And when we faced the layoff (no relocate option), Todd did choose to go with the severance package offered...not wanting to gamble on working a few more months, then another layoff with NO severance. And while it has been hard financially, I still think it was a good decision for us to make. Good luck!  |
| Not sure how close you are with YOUR family but moving isn't simply about logistics and practicalities. If you have any family ties give them hard time thinking about leaving them behind, most familes will wish you the best etc but at the departure heart strings will be wrenched enormously. I think the French advice on the chickens would be to stick them in a pot with some white wine. You are probably right to say no to China, it is a very different culture, I was based in Shanghai for a short period. |
| Tough decision. Can you go on a reconnaissance mission first? Are places that would accommodate your gang affordable? I would worry about what the French would do to your chickens. |
| I am sorry you are going through this. We've been there and it isn't fun, but all-in-all, we ended up being better off financially and happier too. That last thing I worry about is your zoo (said in a loving tone). You have always made them a priority and given them a great life and there is no reason to expect them to change. You will be in my thoughts. |
| Boy that is a stressful situation. I am keeping you and Kaj in my thoughts for the best outcome. |
Wow. I really hope you can sort something out without having to move home. Could you take in lodgers? (I mean, other than animals  )How about renting your home out if you need to move away for a while, so that you still have a home to come back to? Do you have any animal lover friends who could share duties if you increase your work hours so you can stay? Is there any kind of scheme you could sign up to, to have animal lover volunteers come once a week if you have to work longer hours? How about a house-swap? If you swap with someone who has a similar size place you could take the animals and return back to your own home afterwards? |
| That's a tough decision. I was faced with a similar decision (albeit not having to move overseas) back in the spring of '09 when the automakers were going thru their bankruptcies. Chrysler was closing several plants (including mine in St. Louis), laying people off, and it didn't look like they were going to survive. They did give us a choice; stay with the company and move, or take a buy-out and leave the company. In the end, I decided to take the buy-out. I was concerned that if I stuck with the company, I still wasn't guaranteed a job in the long run. It looked like the company wasn't going to make it even if they came out of bankruptcy. And, most likely, I would have had to move to Detroit, which I DID NOT want to do. So I took the money and ran. I moved back to my hometown and found a new, BETTER job, within a few months of leaving Chrysler. And this was at the height of the Great Recession. If it were me in your shoes (or Kaj's shoes), I would take the money and leave the company. I don't know what Kaj does or how good he is at doing it, but if he's in a field that is doing well, and he's good at what he does, he'll have no problem finding another job. Packing up everything, including all the animals, and moving to the other side of the planet seems way too much. How would you move all those animals? They'd have to be flown. Can they all survive in the cargo hold of an airliner for God knows how many hours? Can all of those animals be put in one plane or is there a limit on how many animals you can ship at a time? And won't they have to go into quarantine when they get there? Take the money and run. |
| I have what may be a crazy question. Say you do move to another country, things then change with the job situation, and you decide to move back "home". How hard is it get them BACK into your current country?? |
I absolutely think you are the greatest for thinking of your animals first  Also, most countries, I believe, have a 30 day incubation period where your animals ( including your dogs and cats) must by law be quatantined for 30 days when arrriving in in a new country - not Canada or US, I think. I believe that is so but check it out. Thirty days is a long time for your dogs to be from you... Personally, I would take the package and stay where I am...But that is easier said than done. Hope you find the best option for you....I agree...my dogs and my animals take priority! |
| Diane is right. Animals have to go into quarantine. There was a guy on the Airedale forum that moved from the UK to Australia. His 'dale had to go into quarantine. I forget for how long but it was awhile. Can the animals (especially Gilligan) handle the trip AND the quarantine? And will they need different and/or extra vaccinations and how will they handle that? |
| I know Australia is one (if not the most) extreme with quarantine laws. That's why their agility team can't take their own dogs to World competitions...they have to run borrowed dogs.  |
| Do agree about the Aussies. They travel alot but they are a bit funny when people try to go over there. |
got sheep wrote: I know Australia is one (if not the most) extreme with quarantine laws. That's why their agility team can't take their own dogs to World competitions...they have to run borrowed dogs. We had actually been pondering the idea of moving to Australia, but the quarantine laws put us off. So we will have to settle for just a visit someday. |
I actually researched the Australian quarantine scenario. IF you planned it all perfectly, with perfect timing (you'd have to have a very strict schedule of vaccines/tests and other circumstances etc), the minimum amount of time your dog would be quarantined is 30 days in one of 3 (I believe) government facilities. You would not even be able to see your dog once your flight is landed, the dog would be handled by government workers and brought directly to the facility (can you imagine??? an 18 hour flight and you can't even see your dog to make sure they're ok?). You would get (depending on which facility) an average of two 1-hour visits per week.  during those 30 days.I could not even begin to imagine doing that to Mady. My stomach turns just thinking about it. So I can't see ever moving to Australia. At best, we could come for a visit and have to borrow some Aussie sheepdogs during our stay (  are there any Aussie sheepdogs that pop to mind?  ) |
| Here's a link to the regs for France. Not sure how comprehensive this link is, though. http://www.pettravel.com/immigration/France.cfm Plus, there may be a limit to how many animals you can bring in. Not as bad as Australia but enough of a headache. All of these requirements would discourage me from traveling abroad with my dog or moving. |
CamVal1 wrote: Not as bad as Australia but enough of a headache. All of these requirements would discourage me from traveling abroad with my dog or moving. Then there's the flipside of the coin, do you know how many times I thought "wow I wish I had Mady here with me" while walking through extremely dog-friendly downtown Budapest that's ridiculously full of beautiful, stylish women?  |
CamVal1 wrote: Here's a link to the regs for France. Not sure how comprehensive this link is, though. http://www.pettravel.com/immigration/France.cfm Plus, there may be a limit to how many animals you can bring in. Not as bad as Australia but enough of a headache. All of these requirements would discourage me from traveling abroad with my dog or moving. The rules for France don't seem to be too onerous, really. Hopefully there is not a limit on the number, though. Marianne, your heads must be spinning with so many different scenarios right now. I know that I would probably have a hundred pro and con lists for each scenario by now, and I would not have slept much. I hope that you are at least able to rest your mind at night!! |
| Thanks again everyone for the comments: Thank you Kim and I guess i'm just re-affirming what I've read on other sites as well. Yes, more research has shown that France only allows up to 5 animals (per person or household ) but as Kaj would originally move there first before we purchased a home or rented that brings us up to 10. We could then also bring in up to 10 in Holland...sigh that only brings us up to 20. Have their EU animal passports issued and then travel to France. Another possibility is to send some to relatives in Holland and Fance and "collect" them afterwards. No quarantine needed for any pet in Europe travelling from Canada or the US. Although England has the additonal requirement that dogs/cats/ferrets need blood test before being allowed entry. All animals as I've mentioned need to be microchipped and have rabies shots plus vet certificate stating clean bill of health before being able to enter. Once in the country of their choice all animals (this is entirely up to the owner) then visit the vet who issue the dog/cat/ferret a EU pet passport which is then kept for the duration of their lives and pet can freely travel anywhere in the EU (includes something like 11 countries). Rabbits/guinea pigs and birds don't need a pet passport but need vet certificate they are free from disease. Urg....this is so horrible and I really don't want to move and leave the home I love behind. We've spent years modifying it for our furkids. There is still hope he may be offered a job here but it would mean a significant paycut. Although I would also be motivated to find a second job but I'm really adamant that no animals get left behind. (Ironically Kaj and I met in Paris over 10 years ago) We both were on vacation and for 7 years he travelled to Canada to visit me until he got a job here 3 years ago and we purchased our home 6 days later) I had sent him the photos of the house for months praying it wouldn't sell before I had a chance to buy it. He left his job/family and friends behind to be with me. For those 7 years I wouldn't leave or move from Canada due to my pets. Some of you remember that last march (after 10 years) I finally got to meet his family for the first time as again I hadn't even wanted to travel and leave my four legged friends behind. Somehow it seems we've come full circle. Stay tuned |
| I think you may find birds would be under quarantine restrictions especially due to bird flu, the relaxation on UK animal import was with mammals. The EU may be the same, worth checking. |
| Thanks Archie, I'll make sure I look into it further. I do know that the UK requires blood test which the EU countries don't require for entry. The EU countries did say that birds/bunnies/ guinea pigs need vet certification but are not issued EU passports unlike dogs/cats and ferrets. I wonder if a country would regard "Chickens" under the bird category ,as they are considered farm animals and not pets? (although mine are). As the days pass, it is getting more stressful as it leaves only 8 days to make a decision. This just kills me as we had no inkling this was coming and are both in shock that we now have to make a life long decision. I really don't want to leave the house I love but now that my hours were cut to 16 hrs per week this year - Kaj has been the major breadwinner. If we chose to stay put - he is able to take the severance package and search for another job. (Should mention his particular field is specialized and he's never done anything else his entire life) If not, than he accepts the transfer but does get a choice of where we move. Either way, he would have to move first anyhow as I wouldn't be able to leave until the house was sold as we would need to do that in order to be able to purchase a home elsewhere. I also am not ruling out taking on a second job myself and staying put as I also have two grown sons. Although both have encouraged me that it's okay for me to move to Paris or Montreal - as a mother I don't care how old my kids are...sigh ...they're still my kids. |
Marianne wrote: .......it's okay for me to move to Paris or Montreal - I didn't know Montreal was an option. If it is, and you had to move, that would be the place to move to, logistically speaking. Same country. Should not have any problems or worries about moving all the furkids. Did you ever think about moving to the States? |
| Hard decision for you all to make, my suggestion is have a "Pet Shipping Agent" to come to your home, tell them about your possible plans and let them quote and advise on how to get all these animals over to where we want to move to. Reason suggesting this and your not under any obligation is they can calculate the costs of transporting all animals safely from one destination to your door of the new destination. In other words, door to door service. Also they know and make the all over necessary paperwork, that particular countries requirements for entry of the animals and verse you in what is required without you stressing out if you have done all the necessary documents, testing, vacs etc. They also are involved with the animals every step of the move while in transit and on reaching the final port of call. May be slightly a bit more expensive this way but with the amount of animals to move a safer and guaranteed everything is OK and correct for your animals to enter that country. A Pet passport, advice on what testing is needed before they can enter europe and all the correct documentation is organised and you know exactly what needs to be done to ship them all without any problems incurred by using a professional Pet shipping agent. Just a suggestion there then trying to work it all out yourself, plus you get an idea beforehand roughly the overall expenses etc. Wether some of the brood needs to be shipped to another EU country before going onto the final destination due to the numbers you want to take over. Also means it can help you decide also if it is doable.!!! So get in a professional to take the worry off you and advise and estimate (quote) what all this is going to cost and also might help you and Kaj make a decision as to where and what the future holds. Yes Australia has very tuff quaranteen laws for animals entering, reason being we are rabies free and other diseases free of that here. Only country that can ship animals in without a quaranteen period is from New Zealand. The quranteen use to be 6 months for dogs especially from countries where there is rabies but now down to 4 weeks, with pre-testing done in the country of origin before coming to OZ. Visits in the quaranteen kennels is now you can visit while there in there when you want through the day. And not taken by government officers to the quaranteen facility, a animal shipping agent collects them on landing, processes all the paper work with the quaranteen officers and after all clearances granted takes them onto the quaranteen facility which you can be there when the dog arrives and visit anytime in the day that you like while quaranteened. The facility has bathing facilities,grooming areas, specific food can be ordered for them and they are looked after extemely well while there, just like a dog being at a boarding facility while one goes on holidays. |
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