Young Altered Male in Chilton, Wisconsin- $50
 Quote: old english sheepdog - $50 (Chilton) Address:Chilton, WI 53014 (map) Date Posted:01/03/12 Age:Young Gender:Male Offered by:Owner Description Old english sheepdog. Fixed and microchiped 1 year Old. Awsome freindly dog. Ad ID: 16029508 Read more: http://appleton.ebayclassifieds.com/dog ... z1iRe1iogA |
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| Selling this dog for $50?!?! That upsets me. I have been saying that I'd like to foster but can't have a new furever pup yet and I would love to take this dog and foster him until he could find a home. Does anyone know what his situation is - why he is being sold, is he being mistreated? I am in Milwaukee and would go get him. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks, Betsy Still missing Bailey and Emmett  |
| The advertiser posted online that they had a house fire. I'm going to PM you with additional information... |
| Oh, how sad. Thanks. Betsy |
| I sent an email message this morning but havent heard back yet. If anyone hears anything on this dog, please let me know. Thanks. Betsy |
Bailey's & Emmett wrote: Selling this dog for $50?!?! That upsets me. Why? Rescue would sell him for a lot more (and I'm part of WI rescue, so I can say that). We tell people to never just give a dog away, always charge at least some token rehoming fee. $50 does seem very reasonable. But make it too high and we'd have people screaming the person was trying to "make" money off their dog. I'm giving Dawn a puppy (Ok, so I wouldn't give one to just anybody). Maybe I should be investigated? Perhaps he's been abused?  Said tongue in cheek. I know your concern is well-intended.  Hope this cute boy finds a good home. Kristine |
| I think it's the idea of the $50 and ebay. I understand how you might have taken what I said that way but it wasn't meant to be so. I just become concerned about people who will just sell to anyone for any price and I think the combination of the low price and ebay had me worried enough to want to look into it. Rescue does background checks and I'm not sure someone selling a dog on ebay would. Betsy |
| I just emailed the seller and hopefully get a response. It isn't far from where we are. Curious why he would sell on ebay. We didn't pay anything for Angus when we got him from his previous owners. They just wanted a good home for him. |
| Right... you need to verify vet care is up to date (including hw, tick testing) and remember that he hasn't been fostered to verify temperament and won't be followed by a reputable rescue to verify it's working out. The very reasonable $50 fee may be appropriate when compared to all the behind the scenes things good rescues do to justify that fee. Note too that people rehome dogs on CL and eBay Classified all the time. It's perfectly acceptable to sell a dog... breeders do it and owners may try to reclaim some of their investment. Craigslist and eBay are simply selling mediums... the important thing is how carefully a breeder/seller chooses a buyer. Some will do home checks, vet references, have a contract, etc... more won't because they're only interested in the money. Some are successful sales/placements and some aren't. Hopefully rescue will be opted for if things don't work out rather than bouncing the dog around to yet another incorrect home. Keep us posted if someone gets him? Good luck to those making the effort. |
| Anyone hear anymore about this? |
| I noticed there was more information posted in the ad- Quote: Description Old english sheepdog. Fixed and microchiped 1 year Old. Awsome freindly dog. Gets along with everyone young and old. Super freindly very social dog. Submissive and playful. Lives to please. Walks off leash and stays in yard. Loves other animals. He is good indoor and outside. He does both right now. Raised with Two year old girl and other dogs. We had house fire and now have no yard. Read more: http://appleton.ebayclassifieds.com/dog ... z1ioDwCg8m |
You cannot sell dogs & pets on ebay in the UK. If he was over here I would take him being honest I would like to take them all also I would like to shoot these people but the dogs looks good but when they send them to a rescue they chop tere bits of  . That is not right & if there coat is fine & not shave them. Sorry to bang on the it makes me upset when things like that happen to animals who get spaded. i should not go on this part of the site as I get fed up & mad about daft people out there. Also that dog in UK was in a bad state found near me last year. Most people thought he was put down. Good news he has not & is in a good home with other sheepies |
It's sometimes frustrating what people do with dogs.  This isn't eBay as in eBay online auctions... it's eBay Classifieds where people sell their belongings. It was formerly known as Kijiji. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kijiji You can't sell dogs on eBay auctions here either... thank goodness.  Though years ago I remember coming across an ad of someone trying to. |
Parwaz wrote: You cannot sell dogs & pets on ebay in the UK. If he was over here I would take him being honest I would like to take them all also I would like to shoot these people but the dogs looks good but when they send them to a rescue they chop tere bits of . That is not right & if there coat is fine & not shave them. Sorry to bang on the it makes me upset when things like that happen to animals who get spaded. i should not go on this part of the site as I get fed up & mad about daft people out there. Also that dog in UK was in a bad state found near me last year. Most people thought he was put down. Good news he has not & is in a good home with other sheepiesWhy is it evil to chop their bits off without knowing where these rescue dogs come from? Anything can happen and you don't want a poorly bred dog to continue to reproduce. That is what rescue is trying to prevent Yes, I do rescue and I chop their bits off We typically have to shave them down due to being covered in matts.. Point of reference http://www.neoesr.org/pelt.htm Just my thoughts here  |
| You don't have to breed the dog & he still could have his bits. It would be harder for a girl up if you had good owners they prob would not breed from them. As for clipping the dog I did say if the dog was in good health but if matted in a poor state also people would not have time to brush the dogs in the rescue place. I am not knocking the way rescues work but if it was not for them the dogs out there would get put down. I would take a dog/bitch from a rescue. But how do you know where these dogs/bitches are from. They could of had a good breeding back ground but crap owners ( which is 98% of the problem ). Also we have our Lab for 13 years & not bred from him but he has all his bits |
| 1. So when you get a dog/bitch in do you allways spade them & why ? 2. Do you try to find out there breed line ? 3. If you find the owners do you report them i.e police & animal welfare ( RSPCA in UK ) 4. You go on out bad breeding which is the cause of the animals ills. Would it not be the case that the dog/bitch has hard it hard & because of that issue its in a bad way. P.S I am not one of these mad animal lib person. Just worried about the way dogs/bitches are looked after even in rescue & other animal shelters. |
Parwaz wrote: 1. So when you get a dog/bitch in do you allways spade them & why ? 2. Do you try to find out there breed line ? 3. If you find the owners do you report them i.e police & animal welfare ( RSPCA in UK ) 4. You go on out bad breeding which is the cause of the animals ills. Would it not be the case that the dog/bitch has hard it hard & because of that issue its in a bad way. P.S I am not one of these mad animal lib person. Just worried about the way dogs/bitches are looked after even in rescue & other animal shelters. 1: Yes we spay (I assume the same as spade) 2: You bet and more than a reason to spay and neuter 3: When anybody does rescue to the extreme that a lot of us do then you may question  When you have nursed a very sick dog or even the litter of pups we just had I guess you can ask that question! |
BTW...please do check out various rescue web sites to see how the dogs are taken care of and rehomed  |
Parwaz wrote: You don't have to breed the dog & he still could have his bits. It would be harder for a girl up if you had good owners they prob would not breed from them. As for clipping the dog I did say if the dog was in good health but if matted in a poor state also people would not have time to brush the dogs in the rescue place. I am not knocking the way rescues work but if it was not for them the dogs out there would get put down. I would take a dog/bitch from a rescue. But how do you know where these dogs/bitches are from. They could of had a good breeding back ground but crap owners ( which is 98% of the problem ). Also we have our Lab for 13 years & not bred from him but he has all his bits You absolutely can have an intact animal and never let them reproduce, and I grew up in Scandinavia were dogs were not routinely "fixed", but that's just not the way they do things in the US even among general pet owners, never mind rescue, which doesn't want to place a dog just to turn around and risk having to place that same dog's puppies down the road: i.e. you don't knowingly set yourself up to potentially need to do MORE work. Honestly, in the US, at least, you can look at most rescue dogs and know that the less you know about their pedigree, the better I met a one year old today who originally came from a pet shop and though her front is actually quite nice her rear is kind of frightening. Watching her move I won't be surprised if it turns out she's dysplastic, though maybe it's just bad structure and she's just horribly overangulated and close in the rear. She was grossly overvaccinated and overmedicated as a puppy and appears to have some immune-mediated problems. She's a very sweet dog, though, with none of the temperament problems you'd expect based upon her formative months. She's still intact and actually in season right now. By rights she would have been spayed before she was placed at 4 mos old, but she was so sickly - not life threatening, more a failure to thrive and some persistent gut issues, which have now largely sorted themselves out - that it was decided she needed to be allowed to mature some before she's spayed. Now that she's a year and has had her first season she'll be spayed. To do something like that the dog can only go to an exceedingly trusted, typically close-by home and that can limit your placement options. Breed rescues may be able to do that on a limited, case-by-case basis, but high volume shelters and so on cannot and most routinely desex puppies as young as seven weeks old. If you prefer living with an intact animal, and knowing where the dog came from, pedigree-wise and so on (and I understand where you're coming from) you simply don't get a dog through rescue or a shelter. For most pet owners it makes no difference and living with a desexed animal reduces their level of responsibility and makes life less complicated for them, so it's actually more convenient for the average dog owner to not own an intact animal, so that's not generally an issue at all. Kristine |
Parwaz wrote: 3. If you find the owners do you report them i.e police & animal welfare ( RSPCA in UK ) . You have to keep in mind that though SOME dogs in rescue are there because they ended up in shelters as strays, and occasionally there is an animal who was abused, or at least neglected (keep in mind the grooming requirements in this breed and it does not actually take a lot of neglect to end up with a just moderately matted dog, especially depending on the dog's age), a majority are owner surrenders who were at least reasonably well cared for, sometimes beautifully cared for, but the owner can no longer take care of the dog because they're moving, or there's an illness in the family, or they lost their job (or their home) or there's a new baby and now they don't have time for the dog and any number of good and sometimes not to so good reasons (though you try hard not to judge) The owner now has the following choices: if the dog did not come from a decent breeder (who has it in their contract that they will take the dog back and rehome it should things not work out) the owner can either take the dog to a shelter, surrender it to rescue, or rehome the dog themselves. Many prefer that rescue do the rehoming for them since they have the procedures, experience and network to do so more easily and often more appropriately, but they certainly do not deserve to be turned in to authorities for animal abuse.  There are those cases, but fortunately they're pretty rare. Kristine |
| I have actually heard from vets..that especially for females.it is healthier for them to be spayed. if you were not going to breed a dog ..I do not understand why you WOULDNT get them neutered? There are way too many unwanted pups and kittens being born..I worked in a shelter when I was younger and it is heartbreaking.In US it seems the big issue is currently with pit bull mixes..so sad. |
idagin wrote: I have actually heard from vets..that especially for females.it is healthier for them to be spayed. if you were not going to breed a dog ..I do not understand why you WOULDNT get them neutered? Yes and no. If you spay them young you virtually eliminate the risk of mammary cancer. On the other hand, mammary cancer tends to be not so very aggressive compared to other hideous cancers like lymphoma, hemangiosarcoma and osteosarcoma. I have two bitches who have had malignant mammary tumors removed One was spayed at 4 1/2 and one at 7 or so - they're 14 and 11 now and healthy for their age. Mind you, for every season that passes you increase the risk of pyometra (uterine infection - which can be deadly and which I personally fear much mort than mammary cancer - the reason I do eventually get my bitches spayed) However, it comes down to this: those hormones are there for a reason. There is research that has shown that spaying/neutering young, especially, and we're not just talking earlier than 6 mos increases the risk of those three deadly cancers I mentioned, the dog has an increased risk of immune-mediated issues in general, including hypothyroidism, vaccine reactions, and allergies; they are more prone to orthopedic problems including torn ccls and hip dysplasia if you desex them before they are done growing (i.e. growth plates have closed) and dogs that are desexed before they are mature tend to have more behavioral problems, including anxieties/phobias and aggression. This also goes against what most vets will tell you. Neutering a male should theoretical reduce the chance that he'll roam in search of a hot date, but so too do leashes, training and good fences. For some time it was thought (the general pet owning population is not told this usually) that though there is no real health advantage to neutering most males, the situation is murkier for bitches (which i still believe it is) so if you wait till a bitch has gone through a couple of seasons or so (usually age 2 1/2) she will have received a sufficient benefit from those important hormones whilst still spaying young enough to not have a high risk of uterine infections and still maintaining SOME lowered risk of mammary cancer. However, more recent research in the longevity of rottweilers is calling that into question as well, and it may well be that 5-6 years old, if one must spay, is a better tradeoff. As I recall, Rottie bitches who were kept intact well into middle age outlived not only their spayed counterparts but both their neutered and intact dog canine counterparts - the research is thought to have implications for humans and may change how we think about "spaying" women young. It's a been a while since I reviewed the materials, but as I recall it's also leading some to look into alternative approaches to spaying (bitches, not women, necessarily) - can we remove the uterus and leave the ovaries so they can maintain the benefits of those sex hormones, yet we remove both the risk of uterine infections AND unwanted litters. Honestly, the best reason to desex a dog is to prevent unwanted litters. For the canine population as a whole, that's worked very well and in a number of areas of the US we actually have shortages of adoptable dogs (bully breed mixes not among them, though) and that's not a bad thing. But the easiest way to sell this to the general pet owning population is to tell them that desexing their dog is done for health reasons. HOWEVER, for rescues/shelters who clean up the messes when people don't desex their dogs and don't keep a good eye on them desexing anything you place is the only responsible course of action. And for your average pet owner it's just easier to desex the dog and not have to worry about bitches coming into season and so on. It's done for your convenience - owning an intact animal adds a layer of responsibility most pet owners don't want, nor have any experience with in this day and age, and so it is perfectly understandable that most would opt to desex young. But we should still understand the potential health implications. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: Bailey's & Emmett wrote: Selling this dog for $50?!?! That upsets me. Why? Rescue would sell him for a lot more (and I'm part of WI rescue, so I can say that). Just catching up on this but our rescue (MOESR) almost always spends more than $300, our normal adoption donation requested, to get each dog spayed/neutered, vaccinated, tested for parasites, treated for medical conditions, fostered until we know their temperaments, and have them nicely groomed before placement. We lose money on nearly every dog we place and survive predominantly on the generosity of our rescue friends and volunteers. The majority of dogs we take in are not spayed or neutered but are before going to new homes. Our vets give us a discount but their care isn't free so I don't agree with your comment that rescues "sell" dogs. If anything, it's more like a partial reimbursement for vet care. Just don't want people to get the wrong idea about how a legitimate rescue operates. I do not have a problem with a family asking a re-homing fee for a pet. It often weeds out people looking from a pet vs. those looking for medical research victims or dog fighting bait. People here often become upset when a family feels they need to give up a dog. They make a quick judgement as to how they can do such a thing. Any one of us could have a situation where it becomes necessary to surrender their dog so before judging someone harshly for their decision, please give them the benefit of the doubt. Many actually are doing it because it is in the dog's best interest. It's heartbreaking when the surrendering owner loves their dog more than anything but financial or family conditions make ownership impossible. |
| Well said Nita!!! |
Mad Dog wrote: Yes and no. If you spay them young you virtually eliminate the risk of mammary cancer. On the other hand, mammary cancer tends to be not so very aggressive compared to other hideous cancers like lymphoma, hemangiosarcoma and osteosarcoma. I have two bitches who have had malignant mammary tumors removed One was spayed at 4 1/2 and one at 7 or so - they're 14 and 11 now and healthy for their age. Mind you, for every season that passes you increase the risk of pyometra (uterine infection - which can be deadly and which I personally fear much mort than mammary cancer - the reason I do eventually get my bitches spayed) However, it comes down to this: those hormones are there for a reason. There is research that has shown that spaying/neutering young, especially, and we're not just talking earlier than 6 mos increases the risk of those three deadly cancers I mentioned, the dog has an increased risk of immune-mediated issues in general, including hypothyroidism, vaccine reactions, and allergies ; they are more prone to orthopedic problems including torn ccls and hip dysplasia if you desex them before they are done growing (i.e. growth plates have closed) and dogs that are desexed before they are mature tend to have more behavioral problems, including anxieties/phobias and aggression. This also goes against what most vets will tell you. Neutering a male should theoretical reduce the chance that he'll roam in search of a hot date, but so too do leashes, training and good fences. Kristine[/quote] I didn't know about this until my Ben had Lymphoma at 4 years of age. I had him neutered at about 7 months old because of an un-descended testicle. I know it had to be done, but was it too early? To this day, I wonder if that decision, plus the over vaccination these days, was a huge part of the reason he got cancer at such a young age. It makes me sick to think I made a decision that contributed to killing my dog. I miss him so much. Cindy |
Maggie McGee IV wrote: Mad Dog wrote: Bailey's & Emmett wrote: Selling this dog for $50?!?! That upsets me. Why? Rescue would sell him for a lot more (and I'm part of WI rescue, so I can say that). Our vets give us a discount but their care isn't free so I don't agree with your comment that rescues "sell" dogs. If anything, it's more like a partial reimbursement for vet care. Just don't want people to get the wrong idea about how a legitimate rescue operates.. Hm, I know rescue and shelters don't like to be perceived that way, but by definition the dogs we and shelters find homes for are not free, ergo we sell them. The issue is not profit. I could sell all three of my puppies, hand them over to someone in exchange for money in other words - I'm not selling any of them, actually - and still be in the hole, so does that mean that in this hypothetical situation I can claim I didn't sell them? The family in question is asking $50 for a dog that is neutered and therefore almost certainly also has basic vaccinations at a bare minimum, ergo they already have several hundred of dollars "into" this dog, but they are still by definition selling him, even if it's at a "loss". Kristine |
4 my OES wrote: I didn't know about this until my Ben had Lymphoma at 4 years of age. I had him neutered at about 7 months old because of an un-descended testicle. I know it had to be done, but was it too early? To this day, I wonder if that decision, plus the over vaccination these days, was a huge part of the reason he got cancer at such a young age. It makes me sick to think I made a decision that contributed to killing my dog. I miss him so much. Cindy Cindy - you can't beat yourself up. All of this discussion centers on relative risk. Predispositions in the breed are what they are. Luck, good and bad, we have no control over that. Who is to say that this wouldn't have happened even if he was intact? It's not like no intact OES ever succumbed to these cancers. You absolutely never know and we each do the best we can and that's all we can do. But we ALWAYS seem to beat ourselves up. Me too. I think that's human nature...not rational, really, but perfectly understandable nonetheless.  Kristine |
4 my OES wrote: I didn't know about this until my Ben had Lymphoma at 4 years of age. I had him neutered at about 7 months old because of an un-descended testicle. I know it had to be done, but was it too early? To this day, I wonder if that decision, plus the over vaccination these days, was a huge part of the reason he got cancer at such a young age. It makes me sick to think I made a decision that contributed to killing my dog. I miss him so much. Cindy Cindy, please don't blame yourself, we make the best decisions for our pets that we can. We will never know 100%. I know my Quin passed from Lymphoma as well and there are things I still wonder if I could have done dfferent  On another note, sorry for my short answers on the discussion. I guess I get a little bit sensitive about rescue topics Donner's Mom |
| Just as an FYI, I have never heard back from the seller. Betsy |
| Do you want me to see if I can get a reply? Not that I would have any better success but I'll try if you'd like me to. |
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