Sudden aggresion - from 4 Year old OES - HELP!!
I need help desperately.. I have a beautiful OES, called Mouton. he has always been nipping me, which has never been too much of a problem. However, recently he has attacked me on a few occasions, and tonight just as I passed him while he was drinking some water, he turned around and jumped and bit my arm. Three weeks ago, while going to my desk, he was on the floor snoozing, woke when I came in, and attacked me, taking a chunk out my right arm..I needed four stiches.. before that, a simalar thing happened, needing two stiches.. Generally we have a great relationship, he is well exercised, given a lot of love in our home, constantly licking me... yet, he can turn around and do this.. I have been to professionals, but nobody can give me a satisfactory answer or solution.. I have a feeling it is a very severe case of seperation anxiety, but PLEASE can anybody help me, or does anyone have/had the same problem??? I am getting to the point where I will have to take him to the vets, as the are no rescue centers here in Japan for OES.. I would kill me to do that, but at this rate, I feel I have no other option.. He never does this to my wife, and has no other related problems.. Any help from anybody out there would be more than welcomed.. Thanks.. |
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| What kind of discipline do you use? If he has ever been hit he may be reacting out of fear, not understanding why he was hit before, and only fearing it may happen again and protecting himself. No offense if this is not the case, but other than that I would say a medical problem.
Perhaps he has a severe ear infection, causing not only pain, but loss of hearing, therefore when you come into a room he may be surprised and not know it is you at first. I would take him to the vet. |
| Mike-
I would suggest you read The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell She addresses both separation anxiety and agression. OES are not generally known to be aggressive but if you have allowed the nipping from an early age it may have blossomed into the biting. Her website is www.janfennellthedog listener.com. Good luck, I hope you can find an answer. |
| I ditto bestdogx4's advice. The book is great and should not take you too long to read for the basics. Your dog is acting out of insecurity because he does not understand his order in the pack. You need to assert yourself as leader, not through violence or punishment but through behavior that shows you are the leader. I also agree that the nipping that was cute when he was younger has contributed to the problem surfacing now. No puppy should be allowed to nip EVER. I have a 9 wk old puppy now (not oes) and everytime he opens his mouth to make contact with skin and appropriate chew toy is stuck in it. If he does nip I yelp and then ignore him until he calms down. Good Luck. |
| Hi everyone..
Many thanks indeed for all of you who answered me, I really do appreciate it.... He was disaplined as a puppy, and sometimes very gently tapped on the nose (as I was told to do this from the breeder!) Hearing is actually very good indeed.., but I will read up on some of the info you suggested here.. The breeder, looking back now, may have not been the best.. The father was an American Chamion, brought to Japan, and the mother, when we went to see her, was in a dark airconditioned room, and in a cage... It was summer, with teperaturs almost at 100f...I remember that day well. Whether that has anytihng to do with it, I don't know.. I had a Sheepie in the UK when I lived there, and she was perfect.. Poor Mouton, does have a problem, but I will have to keep reading, and getting advice of how to control these sudden attacks... Thanks again to all... Mike Japan |
| Often times sdden changes in attitude/actions are rooted in physical ailments. And though ears would be the first place I would check - how about also checking teeth? Any swollen glands? Has the dog been checked out by a good vet? Everything ok?
What else? Has anything in the dogs environment changed recently that would precipitate the aggression? New baby/dog/neighbor/house? Good luck to you and the pup. It's aweful to get bit. I had to put down my last sheepie (a rescue dog) because of it. It's a terrible decision to have to make - put I do beg you to not give the dog up for adoption unless you can get to the root of the biting issue. Otherwise - he will bite again. And maybe next time it will be a child or baby! |
| Hi Heather,
Many thanks for your ideas too.. Yes, Mouton does get checked very regulary, and he seems to be in excellent health and spirits.. I really don't kow what the problem is.. He never bites my wife (luckily!), its always me, and when he does, its completely out of the blue.. Last night, I got home, having left him for about 4 hours... I left his breakfast, which he hadn't eated by 5.00pm.. and lots of fresh water.. I got home at 9.00pm, and as usual he made a fuss of me.. He then dashed to his food bowl and started gulping it down..I went near him, just to give a friendly stroke, and he suddenly growled.. , I backed off sharp, and he finished his meal.. After that, he was fine.. I need to learn how to control him, and to get him out of this behavior, as I did read that any owner should be able to take food away from their dog without any reprucussions.. Has anyone had any behavioral problems like this? Thanks Mike |
| I haven't seen anyone ask you or you mention if he has been neutered. That's step one. I wouldn't start trying to solve food agression issues (resource guarding). That is a very difficult task, and may or may not resolve itself if you ensure that he is neutered and becomes properly dependent on you.
I had a very dominant male and if there was a special treat that he had, we just learned to leave him alone with it, and respect that boundary with him. We learned to never give him a special treat in any place, like in front of a door, where he would be likely to be in the way if someone needed to get by. If we wanted to get the treat away from him, one of us would ring the doorbell, and he would run to see who was there. the other one of us would quickly hide the treat. We got this big 106 pound dominany male at the age of 3. It wasnt until he was 11 that we found out that he was never properly neutered; he had a crypt orchid. So until 11, we were dealing with a big, dominant intact male. After the surgery to remove the now-cancerous testicle, he was a much sweeter dog for the last 2 years of his life, but of course he was also a mugh older dog by then, too. I would start with the "Nothing in life is free" approach. It has been well discussed here in the forum, take a good search for it. Basically, he must "work" for everything. He must sit ofr a treat or before being fed, He must sit before going through a door, and humans always go through a door first. He must learn that he has to earn everything, and everything comes from you. Good luck to you. |
| Hi Ron,
It is something which we are considering, but having been to a Dog Behaviorist was told that being neutered would only stop him from sniffing at everything in site, and marking every few yards..(which he does) - She told us that it wouldn't stop the aggression.. But I'm very much under the impression that it would benefit all round.. and know that it would be healthier for him too. Thanks for your comments.. Lots of what you mention we do, like us going through doors first, getting him to sit when we can't get by. etc.. Generally he is a Gem!! - Its just me that he tends to attack sometimes for no apparent reason, and just out of the blue,, I never scold him when he does, and perhaps this is wrong too...but if I did try to repimand him, he barks and tried to get another bite in.. Then, he will calm down, and come over to lick my wounds, as though he knows what he has done.. Not sure if he sees it that way, but its kind of interesting.. Thanks again for your comments.. Mike |
| It does sound as if he considers himself "ALPHA" . Apparently he considers you a threat to that position and not your wife. You need to reinforce your alpha position. You might want to try some of Jan Fennell's suggestions, things like "gesture eating" (you fix his food then hold it on the counter while you eat something-this reinforces your alpha position because the alpha dog always eats first), always go out the doorway first, when you come into the room or house ignore him til he settles down and then you go to him. This is all well explained in her book. Good luck!! |
Mike wrote: Hi Ron,
It is something which we are considering, but having been to a Dog Behaviorist was told that being neutered would only stop him from sniffing at everything in site, and marking every few yards..(which he does) - She told us that it wouldn't stop the aggression.. But I'm very much under the impression that it would benefit all round.. and know that it would be healthier for him too. Thanks for your comments.. Lots of what you mention we do, like us going through doors first, getting him to sit when we can't get by. etc.. Generally he is a Gem!! - Its just me that he tends to attack sometimes for no apparent reason, and just out of the blue,, I never scold him when he does, and perhaps this is wrong too...but if I did try to repimand him, he barks and tried to get another bite in.. Then, he will calm down, and come over to lick my wounds, as though he knows what he has done.. Not sure if he sees it that way, but its kind of interesting.. Thanks again for your comments.. Mike Mike, is it actually aggression or could it possibly be initiation to play way too rough? Does he become vicious? Can you stop the behavior when it starts or does he just keep going no matter what your efforts? I don't have a solution, and my puppy is much younger, but it seems now that he's gotten much bigger, he still tries to play the same way but with so much more weight and strength behind it, it can be abusive! We jumped on me the other day when he wanted to play so I started wrestling with him and, boy, did I lose that match. Let's just say no more rough play for us-- I've got little bite bruises all over my arms. I know he didn't mean it, and it wasn't a vicious attck but it unwanted nonetheless! |
| Hi Ron,
It is pure attack/aggresion - as it happens just so quickly.. Example, when I walked past him once without even thinking or looking at him, he suddenly attacked my right arm.. (and its always the same arm) - I thought initially it was seperation anxiety (which he does have quite badly) but these attackes are just too spontaneous for that.. Play?.. Yes, he can be rough.., but never bites or nips.. growls a lot, but I think thats just excitement, which again I am trying to curb.. When we play I get soaked by his licking, and scratched by his paws.. but thats fine. I do think the 'to be neutered' option is best, and will start finding out more about it.. I had an OES when I was a kid (female) and my Dad had no problems at all.. Do you think females are generally easier to handle the males? Many thanks Mike |
| Hi Mike,
I was advised by my dog trainer to wait until my OES was 18 months old before Neutering him unless he showed signs of aggression sooner. By 15 months, he started being extremely aggressive with other dogs and would turn on us when we tried to hold him back. The trainer advised us to have him "fixed" right away. He had his operation back in November and he was a new dog afterwards. He still acts like a tough guy around certain dogs but it is usually just barking! I really think this should be your next step. Also, I have read that you should never feed your dog in the same place as they sleep as this will cause them to protect their food. I hope this helps. Heidi |
| I would definitely neuter him, and be consistent with asserting yourself as alpha, the nothing in life is free approach has worked wonders for many. |
| Thanks again for all your help, suggestions, and experiences.. I think you are both right.. Getting him 'fixed' is really my last option.. I hope I have the same result as Heidi - Generally he is such a sweetheart.., he never barks at other dogs, and yet, do they bark at him?.. No kidding, I put it down to jealousy.. - However, at night, when he goes out for his last pee, he barks and growls outsude as though he is fending off other dogs, when there is no other dog in sight..
Eating where he sleeps was an interesting point.. He does eat in his room when the weather is bad, and sometimes downstairs in the kitchen (after we have eaten of course) - thats where I got my last bite!! - Could be something in that too.. But I thing getting him neutered has to be done.. We did have plans on breeding from him, but I don't think we will have the time it needs.. Thanks again to all of you who have been most helpful, and have made a decision for me... Greatly appreciated!! Mike |
Neutered it is!! wrote: We did have plans on breeding from him, but I don't think we will have the time it needs.. Hi Mike,
While neutering will probably make a big difference with your dog's aggression, most intact OES don't have the kind of aggression that you've documented. I know it's heartberaking, but I don't think Mouton would have made a good stud. Aggression is something that good breeders work very hard to eliminate, as nothing is as heartbreaking as having to put a dog down for aggression, except having a person attacked by an aggressive dog. I sincerely wish you all the best. I know how hard it is dealing with an aggressive dog, but at least my guy was predictable. Please consider joining the forum and keeping us up to date on Mouton's progress. |
| Hi Ron,
Many thanks for your thoughts.... Just to let you know that we have decided to take Mouton to the Vets on Friday, and will be neutered. I hope this will make a difference, and besides, as we can't breed from him, it will be healthier anyway. I really appreciate all your time and feedback, and would like to become a member.. I am pretty busy at work at the moment, so I don't have too much time - but will post again after next Friday, and let you know how things progress.. Again, many thanks indeed.. Mike |
| Put the dog down. Attacking a human/his owner is unacceptable, and you'll never know for sure if you've cured it, whatever you do. Next time, it may be a child. Put the dog down, you may be saving a child from disfigurement- or worse. |
| This thread is a year old. |
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