neutering
 Ive read somewhere that neutering too early can effect growth??? is he too young???(8 months) he keeps biting and barking so im hoping iff that hormone is taken out then itll calm him down??? Any opinions i want to do whats best??  |
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IMHO the only thing neutering does is keep them from being able to reproduce  Most behaviors stay the same after the surgery. You can search through posts to find info on the pros/cons! |
| I've yet to see studies, but IMHO neutering before the growth plates solidify allows your boy to grow too tall thus possibly compromising their structure. Granted this is just from my experience.......and several of them later came down with bone cancer. I would prefer for them to finish their growing before cutting off the hormone train. The marking, etc is a boy thing, not an intact boy thing. Crazy behavior....how is that different that a teenager's behavior? Too often neutering is an excuse to get out of training.....and later find it didn't work, one still must work with the dog. If your boy is one to run around, out of control, having him clipped might reduce the urge to dash off to find that bitch in season in the next county.......but then he should have been under control to start with. Don't worry, your vet will call me idiot afterall they spent all that $$ studying when I doubt there's been a serious scientific study.....so they are just repeating the same ideas passed down from generation to generation. Does that mean I'm against neutering? In my nearby community, it is mandatory unless the show is a show dog or breeder...and then you need a permit. No, I'm not against it especially with people have no grey matter between their ears and think they will grow rich producing puppies......or who think the dogs and bitches are enjoying themselves....or just don't give a d*** about keeping their dog safe. Then not only do I belive in neutering, I think it should apply to the uprights as well. Less of them reproducing the better! |
| I've yet to see studies, but IMHO neutering before the growth plates solidify allows your boy to grow too tall thus possibly compromising their structure. Granted this is just from my experience.......and several of them later came down with bone cancer. I would prefer for them to finish their growing before cutting off the hormone train. The marking, etc is a boy thing, not an intact boy thing. Crazy behavior....how is that different that a teenager's behavior? Too often neutering is an excuse to get out of training.....and later find it didn't work, one still must work with the dog. If your boy is one to run around, out of control, having him clipped might reduce the urge to dash off to find that bitch in season in the next county.......but then he should have been under control to start with. Don't worry, your vet will call me idiot afterall they spent all that $$ studying when I doubt there's been a serious scientific study.....so they are just repeating the same ideas passed down from generation to generation. Does that mean I'm against neutering? In my nearby community, it is mandatory unless the show is a show dog or breeder...and then you need a permit. No, I'm not against it especially with people have no grey matter between their ears and think they will grow rich producing puppies......or who think the dogs and bitches are enjoying themselves....or just don't give a d*** about keeping their dog safe. Then not only do I belive in neutering, I think it should apply to the uprights as well. Less of them reproducing the better! |
SheepieBoss wrote: Then not only do I believe in neutering, I think it should apply to the uprights as well. Less of them reproducing the better!  Thanks for the laugh! Kristine  |
| Some info to make an informative choice as to wether you do or not. http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTerm ... InDogs.pdf His behaviour the only way to correct that is "Training" neutering wont alter that and also he is no longer the baby pup, at the teenage phase and time to get on top of it with Training and setting boundaries for him.  |
| Hmm, maybe teenage behavior in boys (uprights) could be curtained by neutering too?? |
| What age to neuter is a controversial subject here in the States...I had my males done early...At about the eight month stage. Soince I was not showing, there weas no reason to keep them intact. T "They " say neutering keeps a male from becoming agressive...helps behavior to some respect...humping, territory marking, etc... Eight months seems to me to bea good time to neuter, unless you are showing or plan to breed. As far as behavior, not sure. I think training helps the most! But if you do not plan to breed, and are not showing, then neuter your dog....A few days of keeping him from jumping, and keeping him quiet after the surgery, not a bid deal...Just be home to keep watch of anything unusual and follow doctors instructions and he should be fine... |
Thanks all forice. I think i will leave him until the new year first, dont want to make him look unsheepie  With the training he has passed bronze and silver and we go each sunday to open classes to improve.. He is really good at his training but seems to be getting rather stubborn just lately... He has a run for half hour in a morning, road walk midday and night.. yet he STILL bites... maybe his teenage years?? Im happy for anyone to advise me a way around this problem, ive tried ignoring shouting `no` and bricks in the bottle thing, nothing is working... as hes male and growing up his dominance is creeping in  has anybody bought or had a `dogit` puzzle game or something.Ive thought about buying one but not sure if hed use it ??? THANKS SO MUCH AGAIN Sam x  |
| I always suggest waiting until fully mature so the growth plates are fully settled in. I actually have never neutered one of my males & have had multiples live together peacfully. Neutering early on like this before they are done growing generally ends up with a taller, narrower (especially thru the chest & shoulder areas) dog (boy or girl). I have seen this 1st hand from littermates whose vet's insisted on early neutering. If you are thinking of doing any performance work that would include jumping later on, you need a strong front. "Strong" is develpoed properly height & widthwise. If the fronts break down, so goes the dog. My vet (a breeder of Rottweilers & German Shepard Dogs) has always said "let them finish growing 1st". |
Quote: maybe his teenage years?? Yep, you are smack dab in the brain dead months where life can be challenging with him. Double up working with him, but still plenty of love..but he has to earn it first. We tend to love first and then expect compliance. Just a bit of "doggie push ups" or whatever challenge you have for him first, then love him up. Indeed he is challenging you as he may think he sees a flaw in your pack leader position. He sounds like he's quite happy, just being a brat. |
| The problem is that both an increase in hormones and coming of age issues tend to arrive at the same time. It's best to first assume that the dog is just being a knucklehead due to age as he or she tests boundaries and challenges limits to see how far they can get. Quickly going to distraction methods or training/treat mode when unacceptable behavior starts... encouraging better behavior... can be beneficial. Carry a treat pouch and put the dog through the drill... or remove them from the situation, then try again. I'm of the belief that they need to be exposed to the stimuli that's causing the problem in order to try to get past it and learn better responses. I'd wait until closer to a year if possible if you're going to neuter. Intact dogs are not for everyone especially if a dog begins having behavioral challenges early on. Just understand that you can be left with the same behaviors after neutering that you had before. Some dogs can simply be a handful whether intact or neutered. I think neutering will help if there is an intense urge to mark, hump, pursue females or even other males with the intention to mount. If there's any truly aggressive behavior (not just nuisance behavior ) that is not quickly corrected with professional training help, I'd neuter early because there's already a problem and testosterone doesn't need to add to it. Some dogs just aren't marshmallows that easily comply to the limits we set. Hooy... did we have a handful with Kaytee as she reached 11-12 months. She had been spayed at around 6-7 months. So her behavior had nothing to do with hormones and everything to do with Kaytee just being Kaytee and having inherited one of her mother's less desirable characteristics. She was a pistol at times... Emma and Darby were afraid of her during her coming of age boloney. We weren't experienced enough to handle it so we brought in a trainer to help us do better. Consistent handling and zero tolerance and immediate owner response can often get these dogs in line. But this depends on the experience of the owner and the current level of dog knowledge... we are all at different stages in the learning process. Age has also helped Kaytee chill. The picture below was from yesterday... the twins turned 8 and Kaytee turned 7 on Thanksgiving Day. She would have caused conflict had I tried this when she was a year old...  Good luck with your decision. |
| The biting I'd say is not an actual bite but an attention Nip. If so then you yell "OUCH" turn your back on him and walk away, no attention no nothing till your ready to give that to him again after he quietens down, put him into a sit after then go over and reward that behaviour with a pat and praise. He will soon learn, if I bite I am no fun AND will be ignored completely!! You can do that for the barking if it is directed at you too, same principle or a time out away from your company if he is barking at you or anyone else, he gets the pleasure of you when he is neither nipping or barking. Yep good Ol teenage brats, they do learn quick if you are consistant and fair dinkum about it, behave like that with me and guess what fur ball no attention and priviledges of my attention at all till your manners are back. Reward good behaviour, totally ignore bad beahviour, turn you back and walk off or time out and not even look at him at all, by doing this he will learn Hmmmm  what's she doing where she going what about me!!! They do have brains even though they can become dormant at this stage.  And yes the nipping needs to be squashed in its tracks as he is getting bigger and so are the teeth and can end up doing some significant damage even though only to them probably a play or attention nip. |
| Well Kenny has one "recessed" testicle or something? I can't remember the name so we HAVE to get him neutered....even though we were planning on it. Anyway, why can't they be shown if they are neutered. Not planning on showing Kenny but it's kind of annoying....thoughts? |
Eggbert wrote: Well Kenny has one "recessed" testicle or something? I can't remember the name so we HAVE to get him neutered....even though we were planning on it. Anyway, why can't they be shown if they are neutered. Not planning on showing Kenny but it's kind of annoying....thoughts? The purpose of showing (in conformation) is to judge the dog against the breed standard with breeding potential (gene pool contribution) in mind. Breeding potential implies all of the applicable equipment is there, eh? So, in fact, even if you didn't neuter him, which you're appropriately planning to do anyway, the fact that he only has one testicle also comes in under the "doesn't have all of the necessary parts" rule.Hope that makes sense. I'm not sure why it's annoying if you weren't planning on showing him anyway though? Some times at some specialties (other breeds, not ours, and I think I've seen this abroad as well) and some times at matches they may offer classes for altered dogs - mainly for fun, I guess. Is that what you were thinking maybe? Kristine |
Eggbert wrote: Well Kenny has one "recessed" testicle or something? I can't remember the name so we HAVE to get him neutered....even though we were planning on it. Anyway, why can't they be shown if they are neutered. Not planning on showing Kenny but it's kind of annoying....thoughts? Undescended testicles are a whole nother case. In that case they do have to be removed for health reasons later on down the line. But still there is no urgency to rush into having it done at a young age. Talk to your breeder about this. As for your other question, conformation dog shows were started so people (back then generally people with sporting & working dogs) could get together & have purebred dogs compared so they could choose breeding stock to further their breeding programs. Today, if you are a breeder, this is still one of the main reasons you go to dog shows. If the dog or bitch is altered they can't reproduce so they are not in the equation. You can still enter performance events with your boy once he is altered, just not conformation shows. |
| Yeah, i was more thinking of the for fun route. Like an agility competition of something. I was just curious though. |
Eggbert wrote: Yeah, i was more thinking of the for fun route. Like an agility competition of something. I was just curious though. You can still do agility! We do agility and sheep herding and those activities you can do with a neutered dog. |
| Cool! Who knows if we'll end up doing something like that but Kenny sure is good weaving between tables, chairs, and couches while doing sprints in our living room haha. |
| go Kenny go! Cambridge is getting good at running the course he and the poodle have created through the kitchen, dining and living room area we have. fun to watch, as long as one is not in the way. then it becomes more of a collision course!  |
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