New to dogs and new to OESs is this a bad fit?
I should clarify that I am not new to dogs, just that I have not personally owned one yet. My dad had a mutt that I visited frequently and loved very much. I have been hoping to get a dog for some time now but due to a small house was never able to really consider it. Since we are moving to a new house with 2.5 acres everyone will have enough room to enjoy and a dog would have plenty of room to have fun as well. My wife has never been very keen on the idea of getting a dog until she walked into a local business yesterday and saw an adult OES and immediately fell in love. In her words "It's the first time in my life I wanted to own a dog". She has always said she would warm up to it over time but with an OES her feelings are different. So we spent last night researching OESs and their behavior and general tendencies. We feel a dog would be part of the family like a child. We have three girls(2,3,4) and a dog would get tons of attention in our house. It sounds like OESs are strong willed but not as much so as a pit bull so I assume that with some training courses and practice we should be able to give a good foundation of guidance. My wife is a SAHM and I work from home so we don't have to deal with issues related to the dog being alone and sad at home. Are we crazy to think an OES would make a great first time pet for us and a great addition to a loving home? |
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Honestly, probably a little crazy, yes.  But mainly because you have three children, that young, and that close in age. The main attention would still have to come from the adults, who are also sharing their attention with three very young kids. It's A LOT. OES are one of the most TIME CONSUMING dogs on the planet. Not just in terms of grooming, and, when youngsters - and lordie are they horrible youngsters, god love'm, but they are, god made them cute so they'd live to see their second birthday, maybe - in terms of training, but just in every way imaginable. High maintenance in every sense of the word. That's probably why, if you've been reading the forum (objectively) for a while already, you've probably concluded that most OES owners must have some form of mental illness to be so crazy about these dogs, and I dare say we do  . And, yes, you are correct, it is like taking on an extra child. Now you'll have four of them throwing temper tantrums, and the sibling rivalry, oh, my!Don't get me wrong, I really hope there's an OES in your future. But probably not a puppy for now. A superbly sweet and kind and socialized and basically trained maybe 5 year old with a record of adoring children would be your best bet. Because they can be great with kids. But taking on a puppy is a recipe for disaster unless one or both of the adults in the household comes equipped with a cape or a magic wand or something Kristine |
| hey! I have a 7 y/o special needs son who functions around age 3. Now, mind you we just got our first OES, and he's only 12 weeks, but we adore him. we made sure to get a CALM, temperament tested pup. Still a puppy? yes. but no prey drive, not overly excitable, you can step on him (oops, our son did) and just get a lazy look up at you. Mine probably won't be as fun as the other OES on here, but he's perfect for us. having said that, I did see a few OES for adoption on one yesterday. that may be a good way to start. no one wants to change diapers AND potty train a dog. and, it would be your first family dog. so, I second Kristine In that an adult, already potty trained would probably be ideal for you. good luck  |
| To counter Kristine's warnings a bit, our 2 year old Mady is our first dog ever. And specifically, neither my wife nor I had any puppy experience at all, but despite our inexperience, Mady has been sooo easy to train and manage. Only the grooming has been time-consuming and difficult to learn properly. But we keep Mady in full coat. And we didn't take the easier route of shaving her down during the horrendous transition from puppy to adult coat and letting it grow out from there. However,there are a lot of options for choice of coat, we just chose the most difficult and time-consuming one. We do not have kids, but we have an enormous amount of young nieces and nephews and young children of friends, most of whom have no regular contact with dogs. And Mady is fantastic with all of them, young and old. And the kids love her to bits. Mady does gets a lot of exercise and playtime with other dogs, but I have to admit, we are lazy about training, but she is still a very well-behaved dog. I would think all dogs require proper exercise, socialization, discipline, so I don't think that's unique to sheepdogs. So based on my experience, which is very different than Kristine's, but more like yours (she's a very experienced old-hand and breeder, I am completely new to dogs), Mady has been much less work and much easier than I expected when it comes to training, housetraining, and behaviour, and she has been much more work and much more difficult than I expected when it comes to grooming (and I had always planned on keeping her in full coat). I don't think there would be any problem adding a sheepdog puppy to your family as a first dog. Just have to ensure three things: get a puppy from a very reputable breeder that would be breeding dogs for excellent family dog temperament; plan on having 1-3 weeks off work when getting your puppy; make sure your lifestyle and schedule can commit to the exercise and discipline your dog will require. I think those three things would be the same for any dog regardless of breed. Here are a couple of pictures with Mady and kids:    |
| You guys are awesome, thanks for all the good feedback so far. |
| For your first dog I would not suggest a puppy for any first time owner, especially an OES. My family has owned lots of different breeds, I have owned lots of different breeds. OES are the hardest and the easiest to own at the same time. I agree with maddog, "OES owners must have some form of mental illness to be so crazy about these dogs" well said, lol. Still think OES are easier to train than pitbulls, guess again. Bully breeds are WAY easier and less persistant than an OES. What an OES wants (especially an younger one) OES gets. It can mean breaking out of a house, breaking into a house, opening your fridge, opening a cuboard, getting on the counter, barking at something til they get it or running, jumping and landing on you. Find someone in your area that is willing to let you help groom a full coated OES, so you know what your in for and find a rescue and adopt an older OES. |
Baba wrote: So based on my experience, which is very different than Kristine's, but more like yours (she's a very experienced old-hand and breeder, I am completely new to dogs), Mady has been much less work and much easier than I expected when it comes to training, housetraining, and behaviour, and she has been much more work and much more difficult than I expected when it comes to grooming (and I had always planned on keeping her in full coat). I don't think there would be any problem adding a sheepdog puppy to your family as a first dog. My experience is based on rescue.... One of the number one reasons dogs are relinquished: young children and not enough time for the dog. It upsets me more than I can say. Loved your pics!  And, like I said, you two ain't normal. But in a good way. Most reputable breeders are gonna do the baby upright math, add in new to dog ownership and go...eh, probably not a good idea right now. Less reputable ones with sell anything to anyone. But they also won't be there when things go wrong. Can it be done? Probably. Especially with two parents at home. But statistically speaking, it's just not a good bet. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: My experience is based on rescue.... One of the number one reasons dogs are relinquished: young children and not enough time for the dog. It upsets me more than I can say. Loved your pics! And, like I said, you two ain't normal. But in a good way. Most reputable breeders are gonna do the baby upright math, add in new to dog ownership and go...eh, probably not a good idea right now. Less reputable ones with sell anything to anyone. But they also won't be there when things go wrong. Can it be done? Probably. Especially with two parents at home. But statistically speaking, it's just not a good bet. Kristine I don't disagree with you, but I think the issue is more first-time puppy owners + 3 young kids, not first-time OES owners + 3 young kids. I don't see why the choice of OES over any other breed makes much of a difference (aside from grooming requirements). Starting with an already trained, adult sheepdog might be a better choice. But you would still have to be very careful with a lot of research on a rescue especially. I've followed enough stories from our regular members here and their beloved rescues who due to poor starts in life have more behaviour and/or health issues than I think I'd be capable of dealing with. Perhaps a known entity like a retired breeding dog from a reputable breeder might be ideal. And it's still a good possibility that with the right amount of preparation, good understanding of and firm commitment to the time, financial, and exercise requirements, a sheepdog puppy can work. To someone who is researching their options, like the original poster, let's help them realize what's involved. |
| Great that you are really taking the time to do the research. I think when adding a new life to any family there should be a lot of thought put into it. I have lived with dogs all my life. My husband and I had a calm relaxed home with regular routines. Howie joined our family at 8 weeks old, nothing has been the same since! We love our boy to death, I cannot picture our family without him. The first year of training and living with Howie was crazy. He was just a wild pup. We did a lot of puppy classes, had in-home training, sheep herding lessons all summer...and now finally at just over a year and a half I can say, we have a really nice dog. He is still is very demanding, but at least he is well behaved. I could not imagine having 3 small kids and Howie too. I appreciate all pups have different personalities so my experience may not be what you will experience if you get a pup. I used to read all the wonderful stories of Mady as a pup, and think to myself "are we talking about the same breed of dog?". I think if you are patient and do the research the right sheepie (pup or adult) will come along and be a nice addition to your household. Good luck in your quest! peg & howie ( He will be making it to his 2nd birthday!  ) |
| I wasn't thinking rescue dog, unless it was a very special one. And they do happen, don't get me wrong. But most rescues are going to be very concerned about adopting out to a family with very three young children given their prior experiences with dogs being relinquished for that very reason. I'd be looking for a retired beloved show dog, maybe one who has had a litter or two - one who lived WITH the family, not as a kennel dog. I couldn't do it, but in today's world with widespread stringent dog limits, if you want to be able to continue the breed ...there are some times some really, really nice dogs out there being rehomed - and it's actually the right thing to do for the dog, don't get me wrong - breeder at hand to help family through transition. I've met a few rescue dogs who would also certainly fit the bill (even though I have the other kind myself ) But either way it comes down to the young children aspect of it.If you'd had Mady as a puppy and three young kids as well, well, you'd probably have rehomed at least one or two of the kids by now....  (With apologies to original poster - but refer back to OES owner's inherent not quite rightness )Kristine |
pegspup wrote: ( He will be making it to his 2nd birthday! )Yah, Howie!!!!!! kristine |
pegspup wrote: I could not imagine having 3 small kids and Howie too. I appreciate all pups have different personalities so my experience may not be what you will experience if you get a pup. I used to read all the wonderful stories of Mady as a pup, and think to myself "are we talking about the same breed of dog?". howie ( He will be making it to his 2nd birthday! ) I must admit, Mady has been so easy and smooth, it's sometimes embarrassing.  I've read countless stories on these forums about the various challenges people have had with their sheepies, regardless of source, BYB, Rescue, reputable puppy etc., and I feel so lucky with Mady. Though sometimes I feel bad too, because I wonder how far would Mady go in life if she had someone who really trained and worked their dog(s) hard like Allison, Dawn, or Judi. But she's stuck with us who are so lazy in comparison.  |
Baba wrote: Though sometimes I feel bad too, because I wonder how far would Mady go in life if she had someone who really trained and worked their dog(s) hard like Allison, Dawn, or Judi. But she's stuck with us who are so lazy in comparison. You have plenty of time. I didn't get my first "real" (from a reputable breeder) OES till she was three and an American/Canadian breed champion, but I titled her in agility, obedience, rally and herding. She's 14 now, so retired, but she, too, has always been the perfect dog - even as a puppy (I met her when she was six months old, it was love at first sight). I think you get one "freebie" like that - Dawn has Chewie, who is very much like her. And then...it's anybody's guess. All puppies are different. A puppy like that could co-exist easily with 3 young children and love it. The problem is spotting them. You can have a pretty strong inkling, but you can't be 100% sure. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: The problem is spotting them. You can have a pretty strong inkling, but you can't be 100% sure. Kristine Thats for sure! I have not had a puppy like that at all! One of Lily's sisters ended up being a perfect dog like that (never considered that pup) but of course me being me had to choose the puppy first out of the welping box, the one that got up on the couch at 4 weeks old (and took a great intrest in shoes about that time). I knew she was the smartest but I also knew that she was going to be far from an easy dog. |
AnInnocentEvil wrote: Mad Dog wrote: The problem is spotting them. You can have a pretty strong inkling, but you can't be 100% sure. Kristine Thats for sure! I have not had a puppy like that at all! One of Lily's sisters ended up being a perfect dog like that (never considered that pup) but of course me being me had to choose the puppy first out of the welping box, the one that got up on the couch at 4 weeks old (and took a great intrest in shoes about that time). I knew she was the smartest but I also knew that she was going to be far from an easy dog. Bingo! I fall for them too and then wonder why I'm running my behind off trying to keep pace with them? Macy's actually very much like Belle. Not quite as perfect, but close. Does she get any respect? Nope! It's all about the "bad" girls Kristine |
| All I know is that Zeke is an easy going sheepie. Other than housebreaking an almost adult dog, which is a pain, he was/is a breeze. I'd have no qualms with introducing a sheepie like Zeke into a family. And as far as the coat & it's maintenance, keep 'em short. That's what we did/do and he's fine. Brush him out occasionally and that seems to be enough. |
| Butchy was rather a wild puppy, we got him at 3 months old and I don't think he had a great deal of human attention. The first few months were a little rough and we are older so that didn't help but I wouldn't trade him for the world. Finally at about 1-1/2 years he pretty much grew up. He's just over 2 now and even tho we never had formal training with him he listens pretty good. We have over an acre (long and narrow) and we can let him outside without a leash and the only aide we use if he gets a little inclined to wander is Mr. Can, we shake that, say house and he comes back. He is a lot of fun, our third and I hope we have many years with him. If for any reason we were to get another I would want an older dog too just because I don't know if I want to do the potty thing anymore but wouldn't hesitate to have another one until I can't anymore. We keep him short, he's not the most co-opertative with brushing especially his legs so he goes to the groomer about every six weeks and she trims him up but doesn't scalp him and we can live with that. |
| I will step in and say that we got our first OES and our first puppy of our own when our kids were 4, 6, 9, and 13. So, older than your crew. Hubby and I both grew up with dogs. He grew up with a Scottie, who was prince of the household. I was raised with a series of various hunting dogs, starting with beagles, then a beautiful English Setter (probably the prettiest dog I've ever seen, but very weird, personality wise) and my father's favorite German shorthaired pointer. They were all outdoor dogs and not truly pets, but we got them as puppies and helped raise them, and helped with their training, such as it was (heavy on hunting, no real potty training: outdoor dogs, strictly). Here are the things you MUST consider if you decide to get an OES, especially an OES puppy. 1. Your children are small. OES puppies grow fast, but don't grow up for 2-3 years. So,you will quickly, in a matter of months, have a 60-90 lb puppy bouncing all over your house and yard. To put it another way, very, very soon, this puppy would be able to look your oldest child straight in the eye. For some kids, for many kids, this is overwhelming, especially with a large puppy who is very bouncy and impulsive. 2. Your kids will get knocked down. They are small, the puppy will grow fast and will be very energetic and somewhat clumbsy and I think I mentioned: bouncy--as in easily jumping over the couch. The puppy won't mean to do it, but it will happen. OES in the U.S. normally have their tail docked, so at least the kids won't get knocked down by a wagging tail. But they will get knocked down. For some kids, this is not a problem: they bounce right back up. For some parents, it's not a problem: kids fall down, bounce back up. No harm/no foul. But some kids are overwhelmed by this and it makes it hard for them to enjoy the puppy, who in its enthusiasm, just knocked him/her flat for the third time that day. And I need to point out: some parents really have a hard time with this part, too. Please listen when those in rescue tell you that many, many OES end up in rescue because of a combination of big, bouncy puppy and small kids who got knocked down. You really need to know what kind of parent you are, and make a very honest assessment of your kids and whether they will still enjoy a puppy who will be physically overwhelming at times. 3. More size stuff: A grown--heck, even a mostly grown OES can do the following: Carry a fully inflated #5 soccer ball around in its mouth Put the back of an adult's head in it's mouth. Eat off of the table without jumping up. Put it's front paws on the shoulders of a small to medium sized adult's shoulders and wash their face. Crash into your knees so hard you think you will faint and never have a clue that he's hurt you. My current boy, Sherman, is very tall for an OES. He can back up and sit down on the couch like a person. Really. 4. Puppies teethe. ALL puppies teethe. This means that your children and you will get chewed on a bit. This holds true of small breed puppies or large breed puppies. Getting chewed on hurts. Think about how you and your children will deal with this. Now this is temporary, and you can train (gently, please) the puppy to chew something besides your fingers, toes, shoes, remote control, Barbie dolls, stuffed toys belonging to the children and not the puppy, chairs, and a host of other things. Our first OES, Merlin, lost his first puppy tooth in my husband's sock. While my husband was wearing it. Just saying you need to think about this. 5. OES are NOT dogs who should be relegated to the yard. They love their people and love to be with them or near them almost all of the time. My Sherman loves to drape himself over your body while you attempt to watch television or read a book. Some people really love this and appreciate it. Others prefer a more independent dog. 6. Even with those acres, you will need to learn to walk your dog on a leash. So will your wife, and ideally, when your kids are big enough, so will your kids. 7. OES are smart, stubborn, loving, affectionate, protective of their family, especially children (in my experience). They need to be trained well in order to prevent them from knocking over children and company, eating from the table, jumping on furniture uninvited, eating your shoes, and tv remote, etc. They love to learn, but tend to be a bit hard headed. 8. If you are sure you want an OES puppy, you MUST, for everyone's sake, be willing to go to a very reputable breeder (see breeder referral) and then you need to listen carefully to the breeder. You want a puppy who has been bred for excellent, stable temperament and very sound physical health. A well bred, healthy, stable OES is a joy. A poorly bred OES with bad temperament can be not only difficult to handle, but also unreliable around children. And they are BIG. Some breeders, probably many or even most will discourage you from getting a puppy with so many small children because too many people are attracted to the cute factor and don't think about the size factor or the grooming factor or the cost factor and return puppies or send them into rescue. If you talk to breeders who are unwilling to place a puppy with you, don't be offended but ask if they might have an older dog, say 3 or 5, who isn't part of their breeding program. A good breeder might have an older dog: still young enough to have plenty of life and love children, but calmer and out of the difficult puppy stage. This might be an ideal situation for you. 9. Grooming is time consuming--expect an hour a day if you keep your dog in long coat. Grooming costs vary, if you have your dog professionally groomed. MANY people keep their dogs in very short coat or in puppy coat, but they still need to be brushed. As I mentioned, we got our first OES when our children (or two of them, anyway) were very young. My kids were fine, but I would be lying if I didn't say that some of their friends were a bit overwhelmed when Merlin was a very large puppy and they were only 4, or 5, or 6 and he was twice their size. I never regretted it for a second. One of my fondest memories is of my daughter coming home from kindergarten, getting a book and using Merlin as a pillow while she read to herself and sucked her thumb. And how I was frustrated with her when we first got him at 10 weeks because she wanted to wrap him up in her doll blankets and carry him everywhere (this is what is known as a self-correcting problem: within a couple of weeks, he was too big for her to carry). Merlin grew up with the children and then became not only their playmate and soccer buddy, but also their confidant and their guardian and sometimes bed warmer. He used to 'tell' on the children if they were fighting: he would come get me, if they wouldn't settle down when he told them to. On the rare occasions it was a physical fight, he inserted himself in the middle. He woke them each morning, waited for them to come home from school each day, and always in the middle of the action, even if the action was a board game someone was foolish enough to try to play on the floor. He was also my best pal. He was everyone's best pal, really. I am glad we did it, but I always try to talk other people out of it because it is really a lot of work, and really, is not for everyone. |
| wow. that needs to be a sticky I learned more about OES puppies in that post than anything else I have seen so far. it's making me glad my 7 year old is 103 pounds!!!  it also explains lots of the behaviors I've read under antics now!! as my sweet Cambridge is puppy-passed out next to me on my bed as I'm on here and watching tv. lots to look forward to! well, that was great info and hopefully the family will make the right decision for them.  |
| ^^^^^^^^ VERY well said. I remember, faintly, when Simon was a pup, he chewed up a lot of things. His favorite was books, and then shoes, and has and still loves TP. I have one of each, a dog from puppyhood and a rescue who was 2.6 when he came to us. There was a child here for X-mas a few years ago, running and screaming through the house and Simon Nipped him, not mean, just herding. Scared the child who ran screaming to his dad that the dog bite him. Another child, playing in the living room quitely, I was standing by the doorway to keep an eye on Simon. He went over to the child and for lack of a better word, tasted her. Small gentle bite on the arm, several times. Each time the child would look at her arm and seeing no marks, continued to play. Had the ten year old granddaughter here alot during the summer and she just loves Gar(the rescue) and hauls him all over the place by the collar and hangs on him and he just eats it up. These are both adult dogs and different reactions with kids. The excitable one will nip as he/she would in herding espiecially if the children run and play loudly. Heck he still nips me if I get to excited. I vote to wait till the children are a little older and can handle a bouncy dog without being scared that the dog "bites" |
| WOW! This thread is on fire so I’m gonna fan the flames a bit more. I think that I have a pretty good voice here as we’ve done both, rescues and a puppy. Jason – go here http://www.violentlee.com/projectoes.html to see the base story behind BOTH of our rescue Sheepies. I’ll say and I’m sure I’ll be backed up on this when I say that I feel rescue dogs are peculiarly special in that they know they they’re getting a second chance on a life they missed out on. Our first Sheepie Bentley was an outdoor dog and knew nothing about receiving attention. He didn’t really know how to take it but learned it was pretty nice really fast. He quickly became a Velcro-dog. He NEVER left Jen’s side. Never ever. Ours second Sheepie was also a rescue who was turned over by a frustrated owner with two toddlers who didn’t understand the breed – bought the dog based on cuteness. She’s a doll and a great dog. She’s a geriatric chick magnet when out in public. She’s a lot of fun. Our most recent Sheepie was a puppy. And she has turned out to be a handful!!! House breaking took a little over a month. Basic training is taking a lot longer than I thought. She’s REAL hard-headed. If I were in your shoes, I’d start scouring the rescue sources for a 4-6 YO dog with good temperament; they’re out there. I just did a home inspection for one so I know they are. Feel free to PM me for more. I’ll help out any way I can. In the last three years, we’ve been through a lot with our Sheepie. With the help from this site, you can’t lose. Listen to those who have been here a while. They know what they’re talking about. That’s why they’re still here… Vance |
tgir wrote: Merlin grew up with the children and then became not only their playmate and soccer buddy, but also their confidant and their guardian and sometimes bed warmer. He used to 'tell' on the children if they were fighting: he would come get me, if they wouldn't settle down when he told them to. On the rare occasions it was a physical fight, he inserted himself in the middle. He woke them each morning, waited for them to come home from school each day, and always in the middle of the action, even if the action was a board game someone was foolish enough to try to play on the floor. He was also my best pal. He was everyone's best pal, really. This is so sweet, I'm sure you and your kids must still miss him dearly. I'm also sure this is what families are looking for if they want a sheepdog puppy and it can happen. I found training Mady not to jump on people was really easy, which we started from the very beginning. She wont jump on anyone no matter how over-excited she is. This is a very very handy trait with a sheepdog! We used the method taught by Brad Pattison: when a dog goes to jump up to greet you, stick your hands out so they bump into the hands and they learn quickly that jumping up is not allowed. Grooming Mady is a once-a-week job for me, about a 2 hour session, and Mady is a very active dog. I've trained her to avoid mud and water though. House-training was one of the things I was most wary about when we were getting Mady, I had no puppy experience and had no idea really how to housetrain, but it was so quick and so easy! A big part of that was the extreme vigilance we practiced that first week, during the first couple of days especially, I would take her out in the backyard every 15 minutes, and it was January and cold! We made a huge fuss everytime she went outside and I think she had the basics that outside=bathroom within 48 hours. Any accidents she had after that were just because she couldn't hold pee very long and we were not paying close enough attention. I'm a big fan of crate-training, Mady never had an accident in her crate overnight. So I still think the biggest issue anyone needs to be aware of with any dog really, is the time and financial commitment, time for exercise (both physical and mental stimulation) and training. Getting a mature dog with a known history like a retired breeding dog from a reputable breeder would help save time on training, but you would still need to commit to exercise. Getting a puppy would increase the time needed for proper training, especially in that first year. I wouldn't want people to chase away families that are interested in a sheepdog, and preventing them from having the sort of wonderful experiences that Tgir described so well and others here on the forums have had who did grow up (or their kids grow up) with sheepdogs. I think we just need to make it clear that that "wonderful family sheepdog" doesn't come "free". |
| Super information on this thread with not a lot to add but my personal experiences. I have had both puppies and rescues over the past 18 years. There has been at least one OES puppy and at least one baby/toddler in my home at the same time twice. I have three children, generally have three OES and we have never had a blip. My current two OES are both rescues, as was the one who just passed away, and I have oodles and oodles of pictures of toddlers and kids crawling all over them and them playing and the dogs herding them in the yard. I think it's in how you raise your kids to interact with the dogs more than anything. But that's just me. Good luck with whatever you decide! |
| well, the pros and cons have been covered rather well as one would expect from a great sheepie lover forum. nothing in life is 100% sure was mentioned.(except death & taxes) nothing in life is free was covered. (we won't go into how well my father covered this subject.) how you raise your kids to interact with dogs and people. (seems very important, not so obvious to all uprights.) anyway, my family and i would never trade the 14yrs of sheepie love we had for anything with the youngest being 2 1/2 when that 10wk old ball of fluff hit the floor running. i'd like to thank everyone here for sharing all there wiggle bums with me while i prepare for another hopefully sooner than later. yes, much luck to you.  |
| you might also want to contact a breeder on the referral list to see if they might have an adult dog for you to consider. That way the potty training issues are dealt with, they may have already had quite a lot of exposure to kids and babies and would have some level of basic training/manners. I have always gone the rescue route and was very lucky with Bella. She was potty trained already, past the coat transition and already 2 so had found her brain. I must admit though that rescues can come with issues.....she is scared of men and VERY young kids (5 and under) can overwhelm her and I try to make sure that if they want to pet her it is one kid at a time and come pet her at the shoulder not right at her face like a lot a kids tend to do. There is loads of training needed both for the 4 legged and 2 legged kids. |
Baba wrote: tgir wrote: Merlin grew up with the children and then became not only their playmate and soccer buddy, but also their confidant and their guardian and sometimes bed warmer. He used to 'tell' on the children if they were fighting: he would come get me, if they wouldn't settle down when he told them to. On the rare occasions it was a physical fight, he inserted himself in the middle. He woke them each morning, waited for them to come home from school each day, and always in the middle of the action, even if the action was a board game someone was foolish enough to try to play on the floor. He was also my best pal. He was everyone's best pal, really. This is so sweet, I'm sure you and your kids must still miss him dearly. I'm also sure this is what families are looking for if they want a sheepdog puppy and it can happen. I found training Mady not to jump on people was really easy, which we started from the very beginning. She wont jump on anyone no matter how over-excited she is. This is a very very handy trait with a sheepdog! We used the method taught by Brad Pattison: when a dog goes to jump up to greet you, stick your hands out so they bump into the hands and they learn quickly that jumping up is not allowed. Grooming Mady is a once-a-week job for me, about a 2 hour session, and Mady is a very active dog. I've trained her to avoid mud and water though. House-training was one of the things I was most wary about when we were getting Mady, I had no puppy experience and had no idea really how to housetrain, but it was so quick and so easy! A big part of that was the extreme vigilance we practiced that first week, during the first couple of days especially, I would take her out in the backyard every 15 minutes, and it was January and cold! We made a huge fuss everytime she went outside and I think she had the basics that outside=bathroom within 48 hours. Any accidents she had after that were just because she couldn't hold pee very long and we were not paying close enough attention. I'm a big fan of crate-training, Mady never had an accident in her crate overnight. So I still think the biggest issue anyone needs to be aware of with any dog really, is the time and financial commitment, time for exercise (both physical and mental stimulation) and training. Getting a mature dog with a known history like a retired breeding dog from a reputable breeder would help save time on training, but you would still need to commit to exercise. Getting a puppy would increase the time needed for proper training, especially in that first year. I wouldn't want people to chase away families that are interested in a sheepdog, and preventing them from having the sort of wonderful experiences that Tgir described so well and others here on the forums have had who did grow up (or their kids grow up) with sheepdogs. I think we just need to make it clear that that "wonderful family sheepdog" doesn't come "free". Merlin was almost 14 when we lost him. My oldest son, who was 27 at the time, told me that Merlin's passing brought tears to the eyes of more than one of his friends who had spent many hours playing soccer with Merlin, or just hanging with him at our house. And I am convinced that dogs are nearly essential for most teenagers. I could often see middle school and high school woes literally melt off the faces of my kids in their adolescence, washed away by sound lickings, lots of petting, and long walks. Hard to hold on to your bad day when you have such unquestionably unconditional love lavished on you, just because you are part of the pack. |
| I was previously a dog owner (not oes), had to put him down. Over the past year I have been doing research on dogs, and breeds. I have 4 cats, I needed a breed to tolerate cats. OES have tolerance, so the research said. I did have an OES about 10 yrs ago, Hollie, i aqruired her thru a relationship. She was a great dog. Hollie was about 6 yrs old when she joined me. Now I will be recieving an OES puppy, Hopefully January 26th. I am getting 2nd pick of litter. Is it wrong for me to think that the Puppie picks the owner? or should the owner pick the puppie? What should I look for, I know temperment tests. My husband and I have decided on crate training, He can come home for lunch, but I work 12 hr shifts/3 days a week. Husband thinks its inhuman to put a dog in the crate, I explain to him its like his own "bedroom", a place to escape from the cats. I will be taking a week to 10 days off after getting puppy to help settle them into the new enviroment. Does any one use the "clicker" for training? Should I buy a harness or collar? Wet food or Dry food? i use to feed my other dog dry, vet said it helps keep plaque down on teeth, and wet builds up bacteria on gumline. Just getting a little bit nervous about what we need, ect. Janene |
| Welcome to the site and congrats on not being shy about asking questions. If you're working with a reputable breeder, they will pick the right pup for you, your family and lifestyle. Your breeder should also be answering most of your other questions. I'd direct those question directly to them at your earliest convenience. Good luck and post photos often. Vance |
A lot of very good advice given here. I HAVE to throw my 2 cents in I brought home my babies with a young OES in the house. I had Labrador retrievers and German shepherd dogs with young kids. I have bought dogs from great knowledgable breeders and I have had rescue dogs and do rescue. It makes my hair stand on end when "dog people and or rescues" do not want to adopt or sell to people with children!!! I would never had dogs nor would my children know how to behave around dogs. That said ....I think if anyone has small children they need to understand all the advice given .Any breed dog as a puppy will bite and nip at your kids with those sharp baby teeth. Any dog can get out of controll unless training is done (yep puppy classes) teach your children how to behave around dogs Don't let them handle any dog roughly or poke in the eyes etc. Know that your kids may get scratched or knocked down All dogs need grooming (how many labs and shepherds have I fostered because they shed or get big and crazy) Sheepdogs do not really shed but OMG the grooming I have my guys in puppy cuts and they are cute. Are you ready for the expense of a dog?? Food ,vet care Picking up poo and for sheepdogs the cost of grooming (hello my sheepdogs have more product for their hair than me ) or taking to a groomer?? Are you ready for the expense of paying a groomer?? If you really want a puppy go to an OESCA breeder yeah it will cost more but less in the end Trust me  If you want an adult dog , maybe a rescue (I just had one that was surrendered due to finances and he lived with kids and was great) that has been in a home with kids and evaluated to be bomb proof. Not many rescued OES fit the bill in rescue but you still need to teach the children good dog manners AND keep up the training.I believe kids should grow up with dogs, horses ,birds etc.animals in general but it is work and many problems are due to owners not keeping up. You cannot let children go through life without structure ,neither can dogs. I will admit OES really train differently than a lab or GSD but that is what makes them great dogs!!! I hope you can take all the information given and make a good decision for your family Take your time and do not go to a puppy mill or poorly bred back yard breeder. Good luck in your search  |
| @Janene: I always use dry kibble for my dogs. It is usually considered better for their teeth. I put a collar on my dogs. For a while, two of them wore harnesses for walks, but only for walks. Clicker training. I must confess to being too uncoordinated to time the clicker correctly, but having said that, we did the classes and I did/do the training, although without a clicker. But I thought it was a great way to approach training: breaking down each behavior into small increments, and rewarding even a small step towards the goal behavior and ignoring when the pup does not do what I wanted. I just wasn't getting the right way to do the clicker, but the dogs were. I use verbal sounds instead, and for me, that works well. Also, I use broad gestures with my hands and that works well, too. I always picked my puppies but a good breeder will probably do a great job picking the right puppy for you as they will know the personalities the best. This is key: If you need a calm, laid back puppy, let the breeder know that, for example. Good luck and let us know how it goes. |
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