new pup and OCD Osteochondritis
 I am so sad. We thought he sprained his foot after a struggle in the bath. We took him to the vet who gave him an antiflamitory. After 2 weeks poor baby was still limping. We were referred to a special orthopedic who took x rays. The results are in my 6 month old baby was diagnosed with ocd in his shoulder. I have noticed that even with keeping him crated(which doesn't make him happy) and 2 types of pills his limp has gotten worse. We are considering the surgery but would appreciate some input on this. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Sick and Sad over this. Tobias's mom |
|
|
my derby also had it at 6 months old on both legs.. i did have surgery they say it is a good time to do it not when they get older.. to be honest i watched him 2 months before doing it and it broke my heart he would limp then ok the next day then limp again .. now he is 5 years old and runs swims and plays without ever hurting the best thing i ever did for him  we had to build a ramp for him now he no longer needs it good luck to u |
| Thanks so much for words of encouragment. We too have been watching our Tobi limp along, one minute he seems fine and the next he is limping, this has been going on for about 4 weeks now and it breaks our heart to watch him. My husband and I have been tossing around the idea of surgery. After getting the results of the x ray from a specialist we spoke to our breeder's vet and his opinion is to avoid surgery and change his diet(less protein). I don't really believe that will do the trick. I am going to get another vets opinion just to be on the safe side, I want to avoid acting to hastely. Did your pup have the surgery done arthoscopically. What kind of recovery was it for him.. From the picture of your baby it looks like he had both shoulders done, did they say why he might have developed ocd. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this. Any advise you can give me as far as what we might need to have for him to help him through his recovery would be welcome. Thank you for your time. Tobias's mom |
| I don't have any experience with this first hand but, I would be careful not to let him over do it Good Luck with your baby! |
| Where are you on Long Island? I am in Suffolk County...There is a great specialist center near me in west Islip...Are you close by??? Feel free to pm me...I am in Bay SHore... |
| When our first sheepdog, Quincy, was 18 months old, he was diagnosed with OCD in his elbow. He had surgery, which did fix his limping issues. He did take Rimadyl for the rest of his life, but the surgery was necessary as arthritic changes had already taken place. If there are already arthritic changes (cartilage tears, bone spurs, etc.), I can't imagine a low protein diet can change what has already been damaged. Perhaps it can prevent future issues. I would also get another opinion. Laurie and Oscar |
Oscar's Mom wrote: When our first sheepdog, Quincy, was 18 months old, he was diagnosed with OCD in his elbow. He had surgery, which did fix his limping issues. He did take Rimadyl for the rest of his life, but the surgery was necessary as arthritic changes had already taken place. If there are already arthritic changes (cartilage tears, bone spurs, etc.), I can't imagine a low protein diet can change what has already been damaged. Perhaps it can prevent future issues. I would also get another opinion. Laurie and Oscar Laurie I have the same logic I don't feel that the problem can be fix with a change in diet. I will bel looking into a change of food however after he is better and on his feet normally. For now it looks like another vet opinion and than on with surgery. Did they ever give you a reason of what caused Quincy's OCD. I guess i would feel a little more comfort in knowing that this was something we did not contribute to. My husband blames himself because he was washing our tobi in the tub trying to hold him down, and thinks maybe he triggered something. I blame myself for switching his food to what I thought was a better brand dog food, yet not specifically for large breed puppies, and the list goes on...... Another question for you guys the ocd is in Tobias's shoulder, yet one vet actually suggested getting both shoulders done. Again I am not of that opinion. |
| The causes of OCD aren't well understood. It's generally considered multifactorial, meaning there may very well be a genetic predisposition, but nutrition and puppy's activities can also play a role. Basically there's a loose cartilage flap (or more) and that isn't going to resolve itself, so surgery is almost certainly the way to go. If they saw lesions on the other shoulder as well it would make sense to have the surgery done on both even if he's only lame on one side (not uncommon) It tends to occur more frequently in males (makes sense as they tend to be bigger) The nutritional advice from the one vet is basically too little too late: owners of large breed puppies should be careful what they're feeding, yes - what you want to promote is slow, even growth, and especially avoid excess calcium, so it wouldn't hurt to examine what you're feeding him and adjust if necessary. Not to say this wouldn't have happened no matter what. Very sorry. Hope he ends up feeling better soon.  Kristine |
| My vets explained that it's usually a combination of things that contribute to this issue in a young dog, including genetic predisposition, activity levels, and food, just as Kristine said. Quincy was fed large breed puppy food until he was about 7 months old, and then we switched to large breed adult food. We were very careful about when he was allowed to do stairs, and watched his activity levels closely. None of that made a hoot of difference! He ended up with OCD anyway. I would think this type of issue is unlikely to have been caused by being held in the tub, though the issues with his shoulders might explain his reluctance to be in the tub, as it is a slippery and, therefore, unstable surface. Did your vet go over the x-rays with you? If not, that is a must, at least with an ortho surgeon. It should be helpful in determining whether or not surgery is the way to go. When Quincy had his issue, my vet put the x-rays up and showed me the arthritic changes his elbow, and showed me his other elbow, which was fine. It was right there, in black and white.  I think you are right to pursue another surgical opinion. Laurie and Oscar |
I think that part of my hesitation with the surgery is that I don't know this orthopedic surgeon. Our vet who is rather new to us, recommended we go see a specialist he must have suspected ocd after 2 weeks and no improvement. The surgeon took the x ray last Wednesday got back to us on Friday saying it appeared to be a sprain, but wanted to get another opinion, and than called on Monday saying it was ocd. This surgeon is very hard to reach by phone, we have tried to ask questions and have been told she is tied up with other clients. Then she will call back 2 days later. She is affiliated with the only 2 hospitals on the island that do this surgery arthoscopically. Anyway I don't get that sincere feeling that I was use to feeling from my past vet who took care of our dearest OES Buddi before he past. Actually I have discussed bringing Tobias in to my prior vet just to run things by her.  |
| I sent you a pm..Where on Long island are you? I have had a lot of dealing with the specialist hopsitals so maybe can give some recommendation...I'm here...close by...contact me and maybe I can help you or at least support you! I am in Bay Shore... |
| My vets always show me the x-rays, even when they have come back with normal results. Always. I have never been given x- ray results over the phone, especially when the results indicate surgery. I would be cautious about a doctor that is too busy to fully inform you of the situation, as that seems to be an indicator of how easy is it going to be to get answers and assistance post-surgery. If you really want to continue with this ortho specialist, I would make an appointment for a consultation in person. It seems like that might be the only way to get the answers you need before proceeding. Laurie and Oscar |
| there is a mastiff forum online, they have dogs that start limping and it can go on for months. they DO however have a recipe that is WELL KNOWN to help this condition with almost immediate recovery. let me see what I can find. |
| okay, here is the email I sent to Mastiff breeder. they call the limping issues, Pano. so may be something completely different. anyway, here is the recipe.... Patty's remedy for limping pups: 15-20 alfalfa tablets 10-15 cod liver oil capsules 2-4 tablespoons of wheat germ oil (can be a blend) 2 raw eggs 2 huge tablespoons of plain yogurt 2 acidophilus capsules or Lethecin granules 1 teaspoon Mix all ingredients together and pour over puppy's food can be given all at once or half in the morning, half in the afternoon I recommended this for the pup's first year. I also ask that you write down on a calender the day you start the diet and the day you don't see them limp..... apparently most people say within a week it clears up? Lori Sent from my iPad On Mar 1, 2011, at 9:14 AM, Kenney Creek Mastiffs <kenneycreek8@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks, Lori! She's improving already. . . the owner abruptly changed from her puppy food to a maintenance adult. It wasn't higher protein but it upset her system nonetheless. That, coupled with the stress of being in a crate all day every day and then WAY too much exercise when she wasn't in her crate caused it to break, I think. The lady has a 7 mo Mastiff and does a lot with horses, and I think she expected puppy to keep up with all that activity, which is never advisable for a young pup. It is sad. I'd like the recipe, if you find it again. |
Pano is a very different issue. Also more prevalent (all else being equal) in bigger males. It will clear up on its own, though I suspect most OES puppies would enjoy the dietary enhancement recommended for Mastiffs very much  As for the x-ray/ortho specialist described, I'd probably want a second opinion too... Kristine |
| I've not had to deal with this condition (knock on wood) but have had to deal with an orthopeadic surgeon for another issue in one of my dogs (TPLO surgery for a completely torn ACL). My vet (whom I've gone to since 1985) recommended where I needed to go & also the surgeon I needed to see as he felt he was without a doubt the best around. My vet had in the past asked this surgeon to assist him at times. This specialist spent over an hour with us after examining my dog & taking x-rays to explain what needed done, why it needed done & even showed us exactly what would be done by using a small "jigsaw" type puzzle made in the form of the dog's leg. By all means, if you don't feel comfortable, ask for another appt. to discuss the results so far & options. You need to ask questions. You need to feel comfortable. |
| I have nothing medical to add but just wanted to say that I hope your pup improves with whatever treatment you decide upon. |
| Frankie had OCD in both shoulders. When he was a pup he would cry very loudly when he would roll over onto his back. It's frightening because a young one shouldn't be in pain after a little play. Our vet does ortho surgery so it was a pretty easy decision. Frankie case was alittle different. His really bad shoulder didn't bother him at all. So we decided to operate on the other one first. We had the surgery done before he was a year old. We had it done in the winter so he would be healed by the time the warm weather came in. He did fine, had pain the first night and that was it. We got a bad snow storm that weekend so it was hard to walk him in the yard with a foot of fresh wet snow. I think it was 4-6 weeks of no running jumping and only leash walking in the yard. The Physical Therapy after that. Last December his other shoulder needed to be done. That time it was much easier he had no pain at all, and we weren't as strict about keeping him on leash. The night he came home he jumped on the couch.  I remember the vet suggesting it could get better on it's own, and thats what we were hoping for with his left shoulder. But it did eventually start to bother him. Good luch with whatever your decision. If you want to talk more about it feel free to pm me. Lisa Frankie and Mattie |
| I just sent you a PM all about West Islip, along with my phone number. If you don't get it, let me know and I will resend. Not sure it went through! |
| Thank you all for your wealth of information and input we are all grateful for the follow-ups. My husband went back to the vet and they went over the x rays. It was very very mild case of OCD and probably caused from the trauma in the bath tub. He seems to be doing a little better, although he does occassionally limp after being to active, its so hard to keep a puppy idle. Unfortunetly I was notified today that I would be losing my job of 16 years. This will cause such a strain on our finances, Albeit I will have to put off the surgery for now. The vet informed us this should not be a problem, unless we feel he is declining. I feel absolutely horrible and guilty about not being able to provide for a proceedure I probably would have done. I believe everything happens for a reason and eventually we get to find out what the reasons were. I pray my Tobias continues to do well and nothing further develops. I will keep you all updated and thank you so for all your input and concerns. Loving my Sheepie & Blessed Thanksgiving to all of you |
| Hi. Sorry if this advice is a repeat. I didn't have time to read all the replies, and didn't even get to open the second page. We had a sheepie (ThePas) who was diagnosed with OCD in one knee. He was around six months when lameness and pain set it. We opted for the surgery. Our results were very good. In the bad knee his cartilage (sp?) hadn't formed properly and there was a small, broken piece floating free in it. That was the cause of all the problems. It was like a small stone - we still have it in a pill bottle stashed away. Imagine it in your shoe all day, and then think of that in a knee! Yikes. Oh, and since it wasn't made of bone it never ever showed up in an x ray. The vet found it when he was open. First he'd had his knees "scoped." Then we opted for a full on surgery. He healed quickly. And within a few months he was great. He did get arthritis MUCH later, but it bought him six or seven completely pain free and med free years. And later, he did quite well with a little metacam on his food every day. The remaining cartilage was trimmed, and he went on some supplements to help it grow, but it never filled in all the way. Without the surgery there is no doubt in my mind that we would have had to let him go due to pain and lameness. And he had it done right around six months. Our vet said the earlier the better. I am so glad we did it when we did. If you want to PM me with any questions I would be happy to answer. Our vet is known for being the top bone/knee/joint guy for all of Western Canada. We were beyond fortunate to just happen to already be one of his patients. He gets referrals from all over. |
Didn't find exactly what you're looking for? Search again here:
Custom Search
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|