Whopping Infection
Has anyone experienced anything like this with their OES or have an idea what it could be? All we really know at this point is he has an infection that has lasted now for 9 days, even with him taking a lot of antibiotics. |
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| Sorry to hear about your baby. I would suggest you ask the Vet to culture the infection to make sure the antibiotics are working. It could be a resistant infection, possibly MRSA, and not all antibiotics will work. Don't wait too long. Sounds like he is not getting better and if it is MRSA, time is of the essence. Don't delay. get the culture as soon as possible... Keep us posted...sending our healing prayers for you  |
| I wholeheartedly agree with Ashley. If your vet has not done a culture, you need one ASAP. We have had extensive experience with drug resistant bacterial infections with Oscar, and the only way to know which antibiotic will kill the bacteria is to do a culture. Otherwise, you're just guessing. It takes 7 days to grow out most bacteria for culturing, so if your vet hasn't done it yet, please insist ASAP. They can do a quicker test for MRSA. Laurie and Oscar |
| I was also wondering about lyme's disease??? did they do a culture and get a bacterial infection??? They might want to think lyme since it can cause swelling and aches plus I have seen a pretty high fever with it in horses. |
| I talked to our vet today about doing a culture and she said she would have to take him off antibiotics in order to do the culture. Does that sound right? She started him on Clavamox and Rimadyl. Added Baytril on the third day. Yesterday she took him off Clavamox and Rimadyl, and added Doxycycline, which is used to treat Lyme's disease, among other things. |
| yes it is best if the culture is done when they are not on antibiotics. usually they culture or take a sample to send for culture and start antibiotics. when the culture comes back they will know the bug and what it is sensitive to and change meds if needed. The lyme is a titer where they are looking for a "load". sometimes due to past exposure the titer may come back "positive" but low - my horse tests like this due to a prior exposure. I use this titer for his background level so that if he tests higher I know it is a new exposure and need to treat. I friend's horse was acting sore thought to be back issues. they finally tested for lyme's and he came back positive. Went on to have leg swelling and a very high fever. He needed iv antibiotics but is now back to full work after a few months of rest. very serious infection always makes me nervous. |
| Yes, they like to have the dog off antibiotics for at least three days before doing a culture...otherwise it may come up with a false negative. Baytril is a strong med...did they mention possibly giving him a PepCid Ac with that medication? it can cause some tummy upset.. Be sure to give with food. Hope they find soemthing to help soon...possibly a trip to an infectious disease specialisit if nothing helps soon...sending healing prayers your way |
| Thanks for your help and prayers. No, they didn't give us anything to take with the Baytril. The bottle just says, "can be taken with food". He ate a lot of broiled chicken today. Hopefully taking him off the Rimadyl will help. There's something going on with his mouth or throat, though. He sounds congested and keeps making noises like he's trying to clear his throat and is swallowing hard repeatedly. He's also panting and breathing rapidly. The vet says this is all part of the infection. Hopefully the Doxycycline will be effective. I have an appointment for Thursday morning, so I'll let you know how Mac's doing. |
| Ideally, you would like to get a culture before starting any antibiotic, but Oscar often gets cultures while already on an antibiotic. As most drugs take more than a week to completely kill a bacteria, you will just get a different level of growth. For example, had your vet done a culture before prescribing anything, from the severity of the symptoms you would probably get a result of "abundant growth" of the bacteria or multiple bacteria. If you cultured later and the bacteria was being killed by the antibiotic, then you would get a result of "light growth" of the same bacteria. When Oscar has an infection, we take a culture weekly throughout the treatment, to make sure that the growth levels are going down, and that nothing new has cropped up. We treat with the proper antibiotic until we get "no growth". (We have been doing this with Oscar since 2008, every time he gets a skin infection.) However, based upon the fact that Mac still has severe symptoms, I would guess that whatever is going on is not susceptible to the original antibiotic (Clavamox), therefore it should still show up in a culture. Also, a culture now will give you a snapshot of the current bacterial situation, and let you know whether or not you are on the right track, with the correct antibiotic. If in fact it is a tick borne disease, then the doxycycline should start to help the situation. In that case, a culture wouldn't have helped with the diagnosis (though it would rule things out), but a tick panel (blood work) would tell you for sure. Rimadyl is an anti-inflammatory, and a pain reliever so I am not sure why that was stopped, unless the vet thought that it was contributing to Mac's loss of appetite. Is Mac still at the vet, or is he home? How is he doing? Has your vet given you a timeframe where he/she would like to see improvement on the doxy? Please keep us posted. We are hoping that the doxycycline does the trick, and Mac is feeling better in no time. Laurie and Oscar |
| Miss Ellie started with the swollen foot, stiffness, and lethergy. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=34475 We treated her for 4 different infections. Just took her to the vet this week and she still has a few lingering things that need additional treatment. Culture and scrape. |
| Sending healing thoughts Mac's way! He's very cute in your avatar and I'm sorry for what he's experiencing! |
| Thank you all so much. Mac has improved some over the last 2 days. He's not coughing nearly as much and I don't hear the congestive sounds when he breathes. He's moving better, with less stiffness. He's also more alert. He's still somewhat weak, breathing rapidly, panting and not eating his regular food. We're hoping the Doxycycline is working. Yesterday his morning temperature was 103.4. In the afternoon it was 102.8. This morning it was down to 102.5. Our vet said that if his temperature was back up this morning she was going to do a culture, and that Mac would need to be sedated and she would take the culture from his lungs. Is this the way cultures are normally taken? I was assuming it was something a little less invasive. She may have a specific reason for doing it this way. Thanks! |
| I've only had cultures done on ears and they didn't have to sedate. However, doing a culture on the lung sounds a bit more complicated so sedation doesn't sound unreasonable. Sending our sheepie hugs out to you. Hope you find some answers soon... |
I would hop they would sedate. Lord knows, the would have to sedate me to do it! Hoping all goes well. Healing thoughts and prayers for you and you baby.  Nancy G |
| How is Mac doing? Has his temp continued to improve? Doesn't sound like he has much of an appetite, but is he drinking water? With this serious of an infection, dehydration could be an issue. When Oscar is off food with pancreatitis, we keep him at home but I have to go into the vet every 24 hours for a liter of subcutaneous fluids. (I'm too chicken to administer them myself at home.) I am hoping that Mac is doing better and doesn't need the bronchoscopy.  It's so hard when our puppies are sick. Please keep us posted. Laurie and Oscar |
| Unfortunately, Mac's condition has not improved after 2 weeks with 3 different antibiotics. We know that our vet has done everything she can, but we have lost some faith in her. Before we do the invasive lung culture, we want to get a second opinion. We have an appointment with another vet tomorrow morning. It's the largest facility in the county with in-house labs. |
| Sometimes conditions are just beyond our regular vets ability to handle and we need a specialist to help figure out the problem. Hoping you'll get the answers you need to help Mac get well soon. Good luck tomorrow. |
6Girls wrote: Sometimes conditions are just beyond our regular vets ability to handle and we need a specialist to help figure out the problem. Hoping you'll get the answers you need to help Mac get well soon. Good luck tomorrow. Ditto like our human doctors, if a problem is not resolved then onto a specialist. Best wishes and keeping all paws and fingers crossed for your sweetie. |
| I hope you get some answers soon so that the right treatment can be obtained. |
| Hope Mac is feeling better very soon! |
| The visit to the specialist didn't turn out as well as I had hoped. She basically confirmed that our vet was administering the right antibiotics. She did another bloodwork, which showed a white blood count of over 40,000. She sent in a blood test for a tick serology multiplex, but we won't get the results for a few more days. Other than that, she gave us famoditine, which is basically Pepcid AC, and liqui tinic. We have an appoinment tomorrow with our regular vet to see where Mac stands at this point. I am a little encourged by the fact that he hasn't gotten any worse in the last week. In fact, he seems to have improved somewhat. After some research, we started giving him organic blackstrap molasses the last 2 days and we've noticed a marked improvement in him. He's more alert, has more energy and even ate dog food today for the first time in almost 3 weeks. Hopefully this is not just wishfull thinking. |
| Re: the molasses - We have a wonderful emergency supplement for our lambs (and ewes) that is vitamins and electrolytes in a molasses base. It works amazingly well.  |
| We finally got a diagnosis thursday after 4 weeks. Mac lost 15 pounds and was gettings weaker by the day, so this came just in the nick of time. The joint tap came back positive for polyarthritis. The internal medicine specialist put him on prednisone and azathoprine and 2 days later Mac has rebounded. He is moving much more comfortably and is eating like he is actually hungry. The important thing is he is tolerating these drugs well. These are heavy duty steroidal drugs that can have a lot of serious side effects. Once Mac is feeling better, we will do more tests to try to identify the underlying cause for the polyarthritis. The ultrasound showed some liquid in his chest and some irregularaties in his liver and spleen. Thank you for your prayers. |
| That is terrific, well, not that he is ill but that at least it has been identified and can be treated. |
Poor Mac.  I have been thinking about you and hoping that things were on the mend.Oscar takes prednisone (low dose - 5 mg per day) for his immune mediated IBD, and it definitely helps with general inflammation, as well as increases his appetite. I HATED the fact that we could never get Oscar off the pred, though we tried for over two years, as I felt it was decreasing his life span. My vet pointed out that Oscar would never have lived this long without it, so I have, in fact, increased his life span, as well as the quality of his life. I hope Mac continues to feel better while you figure everything out. Laurie and Oscar |
| So happy he was diagnosed! Yes, maybe this is just a short term fix for now, but he can eat and get healthy and then go through some more testing to find the cause. Stick with this specialist. Sounds like they are good doctors! |
| Steroids can cause problems but they can also save lives or make them worth living. I try my darnedest to avoid them but we sometimes have no choice but to use them and monitor for side effects. I'm so glad you've got some answers and that your boy's appetite and movement have improved. Such stressful times for many of us... |
| Thank you for your sincere concern. Mac is now one week into the steroid regimen. He continues to do much better with most of his symptoms. We haven't noticed any significant side effects, other than loose stools. But this could also be due to his change in diet that we have implemented to try to stimulate his appetite. We have been giving him canned food for the first time. His previous diet consisted of California Natural kibble and Ziwipeak venison, which is an air dried raw food. He did well on this diet for the first 2 years of his life. To get him to eat now, we have added Paul Newman's canned beef and Before Grain tripe. He is eating this combination of foods quite heartily, which is a welcomed improvement, but his stools are loose, which could be due to his change in diet or the medication. In one more week we'll go back to see the Internal Medicine specialist for an evaluation. He will probably adjust the dosages of the steroids depending on what he finds. Hopefully we can start weening him off the steroids. Then we will want to do more testing to see what the underlying cause is for all of this. Mac still coughs, though less frequently, so that is bothersome. He still breathes heavily, though not as labored as before. Then again, he has lost a lot of weight and muscle mass, and has barely had any exercise in over a month. The fluid they found in his chest on the ultrasound has yet to be explained. It's hard to imagine all this could be due to polyarthritis. And yet, we are more optimistic than ever that we will have our old Mac back again. He is eating well and we see encouraging signs evey day. If anyone has suggestions for his loose stool, we would appreciate them. I think if we can get his weight back up and build muscle with some exercise, he will improve further. I love this website and I love Old English Sheepdogs. We will let you know where we stand after next week's evaluation by the Board-certified Internal Medicine specialist. |
| hi, thought this might be helpful to you. was mac vaccinated lately? http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/ar ... ?id=152657 |
| Thanks. The link is very informative. No. The last time Mac was vaccinated was at one years old. At this point Mac is doing incredibly well. We are very happy about his progress. Now the main question is how long he will remain on these steroidal drugs and at what dosage. I am concerned because we will run out of the drugs next Thursday, Thanksgiving, and the internal specialist is out all next week. We have an appointment with him the following Monday, but I don't want Mac to go 3 days without medication. From everything I read you need to weed them off steroidal drugs slowly. I made an appointment with our regular vet for next Tuesday. Hopefully she will refill the presciptions for the steroids at least until the following Monday. |
Glad to hear that Mac is feeling more frisky.  It is such a relief, isn't it? You are absolutely correct about the steroids. You do not want to stop them cold turkey, especially if Mac has been on a high dose. Is your specialist in the office tomorrow? If so, you might want to place a call and explain the situation. They should give you a refill with enough medication to get you through to your office visit. That way, you save yourself an unnecessary office visit to your regular vet, unless you need to see him/her for another reason. Hang in there! Laurie and Oscar |
| Thanks Laurie and Oscar. Another specialist at the hospital called us back tonight and will call in a refill to our pharmacy on Monday. That's a relief. Mac is on a high dose of Prednisone, 60 mg a day, plus 50 mg a day of Azathioprine. |
| Can you mix some overcooked rice with his food? Might help firm up the loose stool... |
| So glad Mac is doing better and that you've found a specialist that's getting to the bottom of everything. We will continue to keep him in our prayers! |
Glad to hear that your specialist was able to refill your prescription until your office visit.  60 mg is a very high dose! How much does Mac weigh?Laurie and Oscar |
| We've never been able to get Mac to eat rice, unfortunately. 60 mg of prednisone is a very high dose. The specialist told me today that he wasn't going to lower the dosage until Mac was back to normal. Well, Mac weighed 83 pounds when this all started. After the first 2 or 3 weeks he was in the mid 70's, but at this point we don't know what he weighs' We'll find out nex week. |
| God bless you Oscar's Mom, Mady, las vegas sheepie lover, ashley, 6girls, lisaoew, and everyone else who contributed to this discussion. Your informative and positive comments have helped me make it through these past 5 months. The whole ordeal has been too much for me to continue to comment on, but at this point when Mac will be finally taken off all prednisone and azathioprine, I want to update you with the good news. Our Mac is back. Ourt Vet no longer thinks he had polyarthritis, because he wouldn't be doing this well off the drugs because it an incurable condition. So, basically, they don't know what caused this. All we know is that Mac is back to his old mischevious self. Thanks. |
you go mac daddy.     |
| Great news! I've been wondering how he's been doing for awhile now. Thanks for the update |
TiaPanda wrote: God bless you Oscar's Mom, Mady, las vegas sheepie lover, ashley, 6girls, lisaoew, and everyone else who contributed to this discussion. Your informative and positive comments have helped me make it through these past 5 months. The whole ordeal has been too much for me to continue to comment on, but at this point when Mac will be finally taken off all prednisone and azathioprine, I want to update you with the good news. Our Mac is back. Ourt Vet no longer thinks he had polyarthritis, because he wouldn't be doing this well off the drugs because it an incurable condition. So, basically, they don't know what caused this. All we know is that Mac is back to his old mischevious self. Thanks. So glad he is doing better. Immune mediated polyarthritis is not unheard of in this breed. In fact, Belle's sire had a bout when he was about 7 or so and went on to live without another incident till he was 14-15. His owner's wife (a vet) did stop administering any vaccines following that. Not that vaccines are necessarily the reason, but they can be a trigger. It took them a long time to diagnose him properly, and this with a vet in the family who immediately consulted other vets/specialist, so ...It's a tough one. Glad things are looking up Kristine |
 So glad to hear that Mac is doing better. I would echo what Kristine said about vaccines. Once we discovered that Oscar had Immune Mediated Disease, we no longer automatically vaccinated, as we were fearful of hyperstimulating his immune system unnecessarily. Since he was 2 years old, we have titer tested instead, which means we check his blood for antibody levels on distemper, parvo, etc., and we do not vaccinate for Bordatella (kennel cough), Leptospirosis, or any of the "optional" vaccines. Oscar will be 8 years old in May, and he HAS NEVER NEEDED ANOTHER BOOSTER for distemper or parvo, as his body held the proper immunity. (If his levels were too low, we would have vaccinated for those particular cooties. If he needed more than one, we would have spaced them out, at least a week apart. No combo vaccines for us, ever.) We did continue rabies vaccines, but did the three-year vaccine, not the one-year. When he turned 7 last year, he was due for another, but we had just come out of a tailspin of severe pancreatitis, and THREE bouts of MRSA, with a little E Coli thrown in for good measure.  My vets were very concerned about vaccinating him, even for rabies. We did a rabies titer test, and determined that his levels were sufficient to fight off rabies in humans, therefore my vets were comfortable in not vaccinating him. Currently, there is no established "acceptable" level of immunity for rabies, like there is for distemper or parvo, so we are taking more of a risk. My vets feel it is a calculated one, and we are all comfortable with the decision. I will titer test him again next year. (Also, it helps that my county (Lake, in Illinois), allows health exemptions for rabies vaccines with a letter from a vet. I was able to get Oscar an exemption tag, so we are street legal, even though he doesn't have a current rabies vaccine.)Titer testing is more expensive than just vaccinating, but in the end, for "special" dogs like ours, it is a way to ensure that we don't hyperstimulate the immune system for no good reason. If I had a "normal" OES , I would follow current vaccination protocol through puppyhood at least, and then consider titer testing after that, with the understanding that it is herd immunity that allows me not to vaccinate a "special" dog like Oscar.Give Mac a big hug from us. Laurie and Oscar |
Thanks for sharing such great news!  Now for some pictures to properly celebrate.   |
Wonderful news!!!  |
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