The Dog That Ate Rutabagas...
 I wasn't going to post this but my son mentioned he heard someone on the radio a couple of days ago say their dog was on ostrich and rutabaga for food allergies so I'm just sharing my one dog's experience with rutabagas in a food allergy trial. This is simply informational... in case thyroid levels should be checked when a dog is eating a large amount of rutabagas. Bumble Update- We went to MSU again yesterday. Bumble's doctor is a board certification in veterinary dermatologist and professor at MSU. He told Bumble it was because of him he had to redo his lecture slides about rutabagas.  Bumble was in to repeat intradermal "skin" allergy testing in a final attempt to see if we could find a reason for recurring year 'round pyoderma and itching he's had since August of 2009. Unfortunately, testing again provided no answers... but we now know of 75 seasonal and environmental things that he's NOT allergic to! He's currently much better than he was in Jan/Feb with the use of Douxo shampoo and a diet of ostrich and potato (previously rutabaga)... adding the BalanceIt supplement and antihistamines again now that the testing is over. I paid $300 to consult with a board certified veterinary nutritionist at Tufts and for them to prepare a truly balanced version of the diet within it's limits. We'll slowly try to add new foods too. He's been off antibiotics since June 25th. But he still gets some sores... much more minor/smaller than before... it may be something we never figure out. Good thing he's cute in a short coat because he'll likely always require 2x per week baths.  An interesting thing though... the specialist told me that if Bumble's food allergy is to say- chicken... just cooking chicken in the house could cause an allergic response. He told me about a woman with a known fish allergy who walked through a fish market. Just walking through caused her to have an allergic reaction because the particles are in the air and they become part of the environment. So maybe it's a reason Bumble's better but not 100%. Something we'll probably try to look into on our own. 2008 lecture notes from Bumble's dermatologist at MSU- very interesting reading for anyone dealing with allergies. (At least I thought so  )Quote: Foods Associated With Exacerbation of Clinical Signs Any food items being prepared in the kitchen Meats, cheeses, cooking oils, margarine, breads, odors from various cooked foods Source: http://www.dcavm.org/08techapr.html But about the rutabaga... I'm very thankful that Bumble is as good as he is!  to Dr. Rosser!! There was a negative experience for Bumble while on this food allergy trial, one that had not been noted before. Bumble's shown that a diet consisting of 50% rutabagas may cause a dog to become hypothyroid. At day 81 of the 90 day food trial of 50% ostrich and 50% rutabaga, he was diagnosed "definitely hypothyroid" (while we were ruling out another condition thanks to Kristine). Bumble had an T4=<0.4 (Normal = 1.0 to 4.0) through Idexx. Diagnosis was then confirmed by a full MSU thyroid profile-May 20, 2011 TT4 8 L (15-67) TT3 0.8 L (1.0-2.5) FT4 3 L (8-26) FT3 2.9 L (4.5-12.0) T4 Autoantibody 12 (0-20) T3 Autoantibody 3 (0-10) Thyroid Stimulating Hormone 84 H (0-37) Thyroglobulin Autoantibody 6 (0-35) One year prior, his thyroid function had been pretty normal- April 9, 2010 MSU Thyroid Profile TT4 35 (15-67) TT3 1.3 (1.0-2.5) FT4 14 (8-26) FT3 3.8 L (4.5-12.0) T4 Autoantibody 11 (0-20) T3 Autoantibody 1 (0-10) Thyroid Stimulating Hormone 7 (0-37) Thyroglobulin Autoantibody 7 (0-35) So he was put on soloxine on May 25th. His coat eventually came back in beautifully as noted by the small black spots where there had previously been lost hair/injured skin due to the recurring pyoderma/sores- http://oesusa.com/bb.htm252.jpg The damage to the white areas cannot be seen in these pictures but hair regrew there too. He had more energy, he was happier and more expressive. I honestly thought we had a reason for his bad skin that could easily be corrected. His breeder wrote that among other things, meds and diet can cause hypothyroidism. I quickly wrote to Dr. Dodds on May 31 for her opinion on meds and a diet of ostrich and rutabaga and she said it was "unlikely" the cause. On June 10, 2011 we had his level checked and his T4= 5.8 so we dropped his soloxine from 0.9mg to 0.8mg. Over the next few weeks, we could feel the tension building and had started removing him from pack activity at times. Looking back, I had often noticed an erect tail dock and confrontational behavior... I now know he was likely wired due to the soloxine level. He began displaying unprovoked dog aggression... took Panda off her feet twice on July 1st and left her with a puncture wound in her ear flap. We took him in immediately to have his thyroid level checked again and to get meds to tone him down. We found his T4= 7.0 which is too high so the soloxine dosage was again dropped. We used half the dose of Clomipramine for a few days and I went back to trying to find a reason to explain this. It didn't make any sense to me. I have 3 dogs that are hypothyroid (2 littermates that will be 8 and BC-mix that's 14) and this has never happened before. I had skimmed through a book by Dr. Dodds that I had read previously and found where it said to go easy on certain vegetables if a dog is hypothyroid... rutabaga is one of them. Quote: Cruciferous vegetables in particular are very healthy, thanks to naturally occurring compounds called isothiocyanates. Different cruciferous vegetables are rich in different isothiocyanates, which scientists believe are important in the prevention of cancer. However, these isothiocyanates, like the isoflavones in soy, resuce thyroid function by blocking activity of thyroid peroxidase. So if you think that your dogs might be suffering from a thyroid proble, don't pile on the cabbage or cauliflower or any of the other veggies listed below: ... Rutabagas Source: "The Canine Thyroid Epidemic- Answers You Need for Your Dog" by W. Jean Dodds, DVM & Diana R. Laverdure I wrote to Dr. Dodds again on July 6th but this time specifically asking about a diet of 50% ostrich and 50% rutabaga and I scheduled an appointment that same day to speak with Bumble's regular local vet. I showed Dr. J the quote and requested permission to switch Bumble to potatoes... she recommended we also take him off soloxine to see whether he was truly hypothyroid, that this was the only way to tell for sure. Dr. Dodds had written in the mean time that rutabaga in this amount could be a problem with thyroid function and agreed with what we were planning to do. The Clomipramine was immediately put away. So we tapered him off soloxine and rutabagas by July 21, then retested almost weekly... - July 27, 2011- In-house T4 level- 2.8. - August 3, 2011- In-house T4 level- 2.5. - August 11, 2011- In-house T4 level- 2.2 - August 18, 2011- In-house T4 level- 2.1 - August 19, 2011- T4 level- 2.8 (Idexx Total Health Plus w/Spec cPL K-9) - September 1, 2011- In-house T4 level- 2.5 At 6 weeks off soloxine (recommended duration for thyroid function to return to normal) and 7 weeks off rutabaga, his thyroid levels returned to normal... September 1, 2011 MSU Thyroid Profile TT4 37 (11-60) TT3 1.1 (0.8-2.1) FT4 17 (6-23) FT3 4.0 (1.2-8.2) T4 Autoantibody 11 (0-20) T3 Autoantibody 3 (0-10) Thyroid Stimulating Hormone 5 (0-30) Thyroglobulin Autoantibody 6 (0-35) It took a couple of months to find/wait for pieces to the puzzle. I wrote to the specialist in early September to see if he could interpret what we'd seen happen... if it was due to rutabagas or possibly something else like nonthyroidal illness... and whether any other dogs had become hypothyroid while on the elimination diet. But Bumble was the first and it was due to the rutabagas and iodine deficiency. I REALLY should have written down exactly what he said (left my note pad in the car  ) but I think it was along the lines of a reference I had come across online on August 3rd...Quote: Goitrogens (glucosinolates), which inhibit the uptake of iodine by the thyroid, are present in many commonly consumed plants. They are estimated to contribute approximately 4% to the worldwide incidence of goiters in humans (Liener 1986). Cabbage, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, kale, kohlrabi, turnips, radish, mustard, rutabaga, and oil seed meals from rape and turnip all possess some goitrogenic activity (Coon 1975). Effects of thyroid inhibition are not counteracted by the consumption of dietary iodine. The nature and extent of toxicity of glucosinolates are still the subject of debate. Although there are few, if any, acute human illnesses caused by glucosinolates, chronic and subchronic effects remain a possibility (Heaney and Fenwick 1987). Source: http://ipmworld.umn.edu/chapters/pimentel.htm http://www.peteducation.com/article_pri ... 62&aid=674 So Bumble has a food allergy, maybe still an allergy to something yet unidentified because he still gets sores and itches a lot... but he is NOT hypothyroid. He's again a happy, balanced boy and the tension is gone.     Today: http://www.oesusa.com/BuckNBumble100611.html Anyway, just sharing one story of this one dog that ate a diet of 50% rutabagas for over 3 months that became temporarily hypothyroid. |
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Jaci, all I can say is  And This reminds me so much of the uphill, daily battle with Oscar's health issues. But I just have Oscar! Interesting to note about food sensitivity. My brother has severe allergies to shellfish, and he cannot be in a restaurant where crab or shrimp is cooked, or he has a terrible asthma attack. Apparently, moisture vapor released into the air when crab legs are cracked open contains enough crab particles to cause a reaction. Crazy stuff. Thanks for letting us know what has been going on with Bumble. It helps all of us who are struggling with dogs with health issues. Give the pups a good scritchin' for me. Laurie and Oscar |
Quote: This reminds me so much of the uphill, daily battle with Oscar's health issues. But I just have Oscar! I know you can relate to this. That makes sense then about the food vapors... I had never thought of it as a possible trigger. I told Jim at some point we'll try withholding chicken, beef, etc. from our diets and that of the dogs to see if we notice a drop in Bumble's itching and sore flares. He wasn't very receptive to the idea so I told him for 2 weeks we'll eat out. The dogs were much easier to convince to just go along with it. Atopica/Cyclosporine was mentioned to me a second time. It's not the expense that's put me off on using it... I just don't want Bumble's immune system or response messed up more than it is. So for now we'll try to stick with topicals. May give the homeopathic approach another try... |
| I know how frustrating it is to pin down an allergic reaction, especially with a dog. Based upon your work with Bumble, it certainly does seem like you are dealing with a food sensitivity, rather than an environmental one. Forgive me if you've already covered this, but does he have digestive troubles too, or just skin issues? I may have to start looking for a new protein source for Oscar as well. It seems like now we are having issues with certain lot#s of the venison and rice. Some he tolerates fine, others, we start with the tummy rumbling and loose stool. I discovered that the term "venison" in dog food covers not only deer, but elk, red stag, etc., depending upon where it is sourced. Color me surprised! It explains why Oscar has issues with certain lot#s and not others, as I am sure the types of "venison" vary with each production run. After reading about cyclosporine, I wouldn't be in any rush to try it either. It sounds like one of those pharma ads for a new drug on tv that list out the possible side effects of death, dismemberment, decapitation, etc. No thanks.Are you giving a probiotic? I am currently looking for a new one, as Oscar's is giving him tummy trouble. Thanks for all of the info and insight. Laurie and Oscar |
| We are really fortunate that Bumble doesn't have any digestive problems. We have given him probiotics in the past. He was on a probiotic again from January 3rd - February 10th, 2011... we stopped it when we started the food trial back in February. Quote: Based upon your work with Bumble, it certainly does seem like you are dealing with a food sensitivity, rather than an environmental one. I've dealt with seasonal allergies and dust/mold allergies... it's ragweed season for Darby so she's got poodle-feet again. http://oesusa.com/EmmaDarby100711.jpg One littermate affected, one not. Not all dogs present the same way but Bumble's skin is nothing like Darby's. Darby gets real itchy during peak ragweed season, real waxy ears and yeasty feet. Bumble gets real itchy year 'round, physically warm to the touch areas often on his neck (but no longer hot! ), his coat gets polluted and also those darn staph sores (but much smaller now and only a few at any given time). So they're very different. It was ridiculous the number of things I tried to eliminate from our home praying I'd stumble across an environmental trigger for Bumble. He's definitely better than he was with the food change but there's still... something. Maybe the cooking of food, maybe something else. I was looking through the lecture notes and it mentions doing a patch test with food. I'd be asking the dogs, "Ok... so who ate it this time?"  Might be worth a shot though. Still have to wait for the RAST test results. This is the third time we've done it in 2 years so I'm not very optimistic. No further allergy testing will be done because we've exhausted all the current options. So I just have to suck it up and manage symptoms in the least harmful way possible. I know you'll understand the balancing act... holding your breath and hoping good skin conditions last.Quote: I discovered that the term "venison" in dog food covers not only deer, but elk, red stag, etc., depending upon where it is sourced. Color me surprised! It explains why Oscar has issues with certain lot#s and not others, as I am sure the types of "venison" vary with each production run. Oh nooo.  I hope you can find a good source. The place I get Bumble's ostrich from also sells organic venison but it's so expensive... I can't imagine the daily cost to feed these big boys. Did Nutriscan testing off any hope for maybe finding another food that could be used? I read that it currently only tests for corn, wheat, soy, beef, egg and dairy but they will be adding 14 new ingredients in the future. http://www.nutriscan.org/images/stories ... 051111.pdf It mentions "additional allergens will be offered in 2012. http://www.nutriscan.org/ Just wondering if this might help with managing Oscar's IBD. I've been told that's one of the problems with commercial foods- cross contamination. The ostrich we buy for Bumble is ground in equipment that's dedicated to ostrich only. It's why the university recommends the supplier for food trials. Did I mention that Bumble has his own frying pan? Hugs to the big boy and hoping you find a food source to keep his tummy happy.  |
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